: Uhh... I think the Phaeton may have just been usurped in my top three...



Playdrv4me
12-18-05, 04:55 AM
Holy hell I didnt realize 04' XLR's were already so cheep!!

Heres a 2004 Black Onyx one with 11k miles for 42k! Within 6 months time they will be even less. I know they havent proven to be particularly reliable cars, but an XLR might be just the ticket to get me back in that Cadillac ownership category. After that would be the Range Rover, and then the Phaeton, at least until I see and drive a Phaeton up close.

Would not be surprised if this is a Buyback, but still the prices are coming down.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=191613104&dealer_id=57121476&car_year=2004&model=XLR&bkms=1134893792976&lang=en&isp=y&start_year=2004&certified=&search_type=both&distance=0&make=CAD&min_price=1&address=33611&advanced=&end_year=2004&max_price=50000&cardist=2149#vdptop

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2005/10/31/191/613/1920424279.191613104.IM1.04.565x421_A.562x421.jpg

Night Wolf
12-18-05, 05:45 AM
ya know... they are nice cars, but they don't do anything for me....

I woudln't want to drive one because I would get the rich snobby, dude thinks hes better then the rest of us look from other people.

I just can't help thinking that when I see people in most high dollar expensive cars..... or people that use Range Rovers or Hummer H2 (or H3) to go to the store (99% of the people that own them)

Eh, before someone says "but you drive a premium luxury car" yeah.... its different... these are classic American cruiser type cars... cars that are normally thought of as old people cars... a DeVille is not in the same class as the XLR.

I dunno, maybe its just my view on it.... most any BMW has this same logic, some of MB sporty Coupes, though a couple were fitting....

I personally do not like attention to me or my car... drive something that nobody else has? thats fine.... you'll probably see a '79 DeVille for ever XLR (ok, here in FL I have seen a few of the old Caddys around) but the image is different... I get attention in the '79, but its more along the lines of, wow, nice car.... or just people that like the classic.... the XLR is the kind of car that screams "look at me" or "I am better then you"

Again, just my logic.

I would have a hard time spending $42k on a car, even as I get older and make alot of money.... but IF I personally had that kind of money to spend, I could never bring myself to buy a car like that... I would buy a decent midsize car.... if you like German cars maybe a Passat or something.... then the majority of the money I would buy a classic... '59 Caddy is on the top of my list. Or I would get a Chrysler 300C SRT-8..... that is more my type of car..... hell, I would probably end up with a truck... nice RAM or F-250 or something....

ah well.... just the opinion from Rick.... ignore it :)

Playdrv4me
12-18-05, 06:57 AM
Well, I dont think it is any secret on this forum that I go nuts over uber-craftsmanship, high end stuff... (I picked up a Nokia 770 Internet Tablet today thats just uber cool), and I can certainly understand the MAJORITY of (smart) people who just dont share my fascination with gadgets and the coolest cars. In the end all of it is really basically impractical, BUT unfortunately Ive been cursed with the eyes for that stuff.

In all honesty however, what other people think about what Im driving is not of so much importance to me, as how the vehicle makes ME feel when Im driving it. I love the Range Rover, Phaeton etc. because they are cars that just make me feel like the world revolves around me while Im driving them. I love to be surrounded by technology and surfaces that exude quality and craftsmanship. Lets just say I never had a great dating life, so I tend to notice and enjoy all these things as much as the lines of a beautiful woman. Its almost intoxicating. I am drawn to these cars because each one is an experience you get to enjoy every day you own it. The Range Rover represents a tough guy, go anywhere road warrior that is deceiving because its an otherwise gorgeous luxocruiser inside and out, the Phaeton is a land yacht and rolling living room all in one, and the XLR is like a sculpted piece of fine art that goes like snot.

.... sigh... getting off on a tangent... Im just REALLY into cars, watches and gadgets, even though I cant afford them most of the time. Still, I set a goal and I work toward it. Depending on which car I choose, I WILL own it one way or another within the year.

Ian.

mccombie_5
12-18-05, 08:28 AM
XLR.....

I hadnt realised they were dropping in price either, interesting.

Still think you should get the Phaeton :p

If you know about design and craftsmanshipo, the Phaeton will amaze you.

Katshot
12-18-05, 09:55 AM
Am I surprised? No. Would I buy one? No. The original concep, the Evoq was hot-looking but for some reason, I don't like the XLR.

96Fleetwood
12-18-05, 11:03 AM
I would take a used fully loaded C6 Convertible over a XLR anyday. At least it has the "right" engine and transmission combination :D

HotRodSaint
12-18-05, 11:12 AM
Yo, yo, da XLR be da shizznit wit da diamond encrusted 22"s, yo! (*bling* Insert gold tooth smilie here. *bling*)

Sandy
12-18-05, 11:18 AM
You say, "I know that they haven't proven to be particulary reliable cars, but........."

In what way? I thought that they (XLRs) were very good? Am I wrong? What's not so hot about them? What problems? Here in mega wealth Northern New Jersey I have only seen 2 XLRs on the road, since they came out !! I can see that they are not selling and there seems to be no market for them. In 1987 when the Allante came out, there were Allantes all over the place. Not so with this car....Why?

HotRodSaint
12-18-05, 11:28 AM
In 1987 when the Allante came out, there were Allantes all over the place. Not so with this car....Why?

There's always this...


I would take a used fully loaded C6 Convertible over a XLR anyday. At least it has the "right" engine and transmission combination :D

GM should have made a 4 seat convertable called a LDO (pronounced Eldo!!). Then it couldn't be crossed shopped.

Anyone shopping for a GM sports car, knows the XLR is a Vette and the Vette performs better and costs less.

I bet the Vette is the most cross shopped competition for the XLR. And it's probably good for Vette sales.

But used, the XLR does seem to be a good value. I'd still rather have the Vette.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-18-05, 11:50 AM
I understand what Rick is saying about the snob effect of the XLR. If I was you
Playdrv4me , I would still get the Phaeton. I have always liked that class of car (executive cars) the most, and the Phaeton is so beautifiul inside and so well built that it doesnt matter that it's a VW to me. They are very rare atleast here in MN. The XLR's are nice too, but I never liked two seaters that much. I like a car with space and comfort :)

mccombie_5
12-18-05, 11:59 AM
The XLR is gorgeous to look at, im not sure abotu the drive ive never been in one, but it does look nice, the VW is a luxbarge, im not sure id take an XLR over Phaeton, but id definately think about it.

ben72227
12-18-05, 01:17 PM
THE XLR is way too expensive for what it is...I mean, really, its just a convertible STS with a hardtop when you really get down to it...And it should cost that much too - about $50,000. Not $80,000:helpless:

Night Wolf
12-18-05, 01:19 PM
Well, I dont think it is any secret on this forum that I go nuts over uber-craftsmanship, high end stuff... (I picked up a Nokia 770 Internet Tablet today thats just uber cool), and I can certainly understand the MAJORITY of (smart) people who just dont share my fascination with gadgets and the coolest cars. In the end all of it is really basically impractical, BUT unfortunately Ive been cursed with the eyes for that stuff.
In all honesty however, what other people think about what Im driving is not of so much importance to me, as how the vehicle makes ME feel when Im driving it. I love the Range Rover, Phaeton etc. because they are cars that just make me feel like the world revolves around me while Im driving them. I love to be surrounded by technology and surfaces that exude quality and craftsmanship. Lets just say I never had a great dating life, so I tend to notice and enjoy all these things as much as the lines of a beautiful woman. Its almost intoxicating. I am drawn to these cars because each one is an experience you get to enjoy every day you own it. The Range Rover represents a tough guy, go anywhere road warrior that is deceiving because its an otherwise gorgeous luxocruiser inside and out, the Phaeton is a land yacht and rolling living room all in one, and the XLR is like a sculpted piece of fine art that goes like snot.
.... sigh... getting off on a tangent... Im just REALLY into cars, watches and gadgets, even though I cant afford them most of the time. Still, I set a goal and I work toward it. Depending on which car I choose, I WILL own it one way or another within the year.
Ian.

I guess we just have different views over such things, we get enjoyment from different things... you like all the high tech gizmos, I am more into the mechanical side of things and personally get huge amounts of joy from mechanical spects...example, knowing that I own/drive an engine that stands the test of time, is flat out relaible, and just good... the 3800 V6 in my Oldsmobile is a great example, same with the 425 in the '79, and even the 4.9 in the '93. The 4.0 I6 Jeep engine, the gas hog it is, I would be very proud to own over the latest and greatest import DOHC engine. I do not care for all the gadgets... sure the fuel data center and auto climate control are nice, but I have no need for anything more then what my '93 DeVille has to offer.

Your dating comment, actually can work for both of us.... but instead you want all the high tech goodies.... I personally enjoy working on the cars and and all the mechanical aspects. I feel as though it keeps me busy enough and makes me enjoy my free time when I do work on them, that it is one of the reasons I don't feel like I *need* to be in a relationship.

The experience everyday thing.... as foolish as it sounds, everytime I got into my Oldsmobile, I loved it all over again, while it wasn't the cheapest car I bought it was the "lowest" car I owned... yet everything about that car just felt so right, there wasn't a day I didn't enjoy driving it. Same is said for the '79 DeVille, but that is probably moreso what it is... a classic American luxury car, with all the stuff I believe a car should have. The '93 DeVille really dosn't have this feeling, reason unknown...it is just kinda neutral.


The Range Rover represents a tough guy, go anywhere road warrior that is deceiving because its an otherwise gorgeous luxocruiser inside and out,

I have an extremly tough time thinking that... honestly, when I see a Range Rover, its off-road abailty is last to come to mind, the first thing that comes to mind is, wow... another rich person feels they need a large SUV to go to the store or work. Then the rich snobby thing comes along, and then I just look at them in disgust as they think they are better then the rest of us because their vehicle has TV screens in the back of the seats. Kinda sad that a new, most basic $15,000 Jeep Wrangler would kill the new $60,000 Range Rover offroad, stock for stock. Or that a 1998 Dodge RAM pickup looks that you can pick up for about $8,000 looks far more tough, road warrior feeling then the Range Rover....

.... not saying anything about your personal opinion, but I know when I see a Range Rover, Hummer H2, those Lexus things... or any other premium luxury SUV, the last thing that comes to mind is being tough, go anywhere... Among the only luxury SUV's I actually don't mind, would be the Escalade and the Aviator.... probably because they are from brands I am fond of.


Not to say I don't like land Rover.... the older Range Rover... the '90s one was downright, flatout ugly... but they were pretty good offroad. One of my favorite Land Rover was the ~1998 Discovery... yeah it was underpowered, and they had problems.... but they just had a really cool safari expedition look to them, and they were quite capable. The Defender 90 is also a sweet truck, but loaded with problems... and for the price of a stock D90, you can buy a Jeep and build it up to far better for about half the price.


the Phaeton is a land yacht and rolling living room all in one,

Eh.... it does nothing at all for me though. Give me a 1972 Eldorado convertible to acomplish the same exact thing.... except I would enjoy the car so much more I can't even describe it.


and the XLR is like a sculpted piece of fine art that goes like snot.

Eh, another one of those "it looks nice" but thats about it. In my eyes 1 1959 Caddillac means so much more then an XLR, yeah it may not be as fast, but really, it dosn't matter to me.

I guess it really all goes back to... how much will someone spend on a car? some people have lots of money, so throwing down $50,000 isn't a big deal... actually, this probably isn't the right stuff to say at a Cadillac website, but its simply how I feel. It is along the same lines of someone getting rid of a car after 3 years because they think its "old" or "worn out" I personally have no problem buying a 10 year old car that needs a little work, but I have a sweet car for cheap, I guess that is just my mechanical abality that comes into play, an example would be a 1995 Eldorado ETC, pick one up for about $6,000, maybe it needs a little work here and their, stuff that is more time and knowladge then money.... and I would be happy, really, that $6,000, 10 year old Eldorado would make me more happy then a $60,000 Range Rover.... especially when you factor in all the money I would save..... perhaps it is a strange way of working....

It is just that when I see such a high proce for a new car, I think of all the amazing used cars I could have for the same exact price, and how much of a better deal it is.

Example, lets say I had $40,000 to spend on a car. Well, I would NOT buy a new, single car for $40,000.... this is what I would do:

-2005 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon for about $20,000. This would be my daily driver, and off-road vehicle, surpasing all those far more expensive luxury SUV's.

-1999 Camaro Z28/Trans Am to satisfy my need for speed and desire for a muscle/sports car, nice used one can be had for about $10,000

-1959 Cadillac, any model... probably just a 2-door or most likly 4-door Series 62, it really woudln't matter, a 4-door Series 62 is not really a high demand car, therefore a car in overall above average condition could be had for $10,000. This would satisfy any and all desire for a classic car, or true American car

bascially:

http://i9.ebayimg.com/04/a/05/83/64/7f_4.JPG

+

http://i1.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/bc/e0/5b_1.JPG

+

http://i24.ebayimg.com/04/i/05/92/a3/3f_1.JPG

All come to about $40,00 total, but would give me far more enjoyment, I would much rather own... and just overall really be much happy with the decsion over...

http://photos.ebizautos.com/5197/765942_1.jpg

Actually, that Range Rover is a 2004, and is STILL about $7,000 MORE then ALL 3 of the other vehicles listed.

See, that is just my logic.... some may agree, others may not..... when I get my house with a nice 2 car garage, I know I would much rather have a '59 Caddy and a Z28 in the garage, and a Jeep in the driveway, then a Range Rover in the garage.

I don't think I could ever bring myself to buy a new car... maybe 2 or 3 years old, yeah... but not brand new.... even if (when) I end up making lots of money... the difference of, say, $10,000+ between a brand new car, and the same thing 2 or 3 years later means that I can now buy a nice pair of Jet Ski's, a nice boat, a cool camper, go on a hellofa vacation, do something to the house, install a pool, or just invest the money for a later use.... I just look at it from a more practical stand point.

Ah gosh... the thread hijacking comes to an end :)

Night Wolf
12-18-05, 01:30 PM
Actually, I would have no problem at all using something like this as a daily driver, or my only vehicle.... well, not this particular truck, because it isn'w 4WD, but one just like it that is.

I think I should have bought a truck instead of a Cadillac..... $5,000 2.5 years ago could have bought me some pretty nice trucks.... I was always fond of the '92-'96 F-150's myself.

Such nice looking trucks.... again, I would rather drive this then a Range Rover... not to mention be over $40,000 richer :)

http://www.pcshouston.net/images/2001.Green.Dodge.Ram.1500/05.JPG

Jesda
12-18-05, 01:31 PM
If you bought an XLR, I'd have to come over and beat the hell out of you for making me insanely jealous. On that note, go get another Lexus. :)

mccombie_5
12-18-05, 01:40 PM
I will admit, most Range Rovers never leave the road. Mine is a mess, I am proud of my mess. Mud up to the mirrors, tyres that make the road handling terrible, and scratches and dents from proper use.

When I think of Range Rover I think of the heritage, I have owned Range Rovers from 1980. They used to be unreliable, but they are unbeatable off road.

In 2003 I owned both my current Range Rover, and a Land Rover Discovery, both with a V8. The Range Rover wins hands down. My wife used to have a defender, no car in Britain holds its value so well. They are all great cars, and when I think off roading I think Land Rover.

The only model Range Rover I havent owned or experienced much is the 1994-2001 model.

When I think of Range Rover, this springs to mind:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/mccombie_5/Car%20Pictures%20-and%20other%20random%20crap%20i%20need%20to%20host/082404a2.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/mccombie_5/Car%20Pictures%20-and%20other%20random%20crap%20i%20need%20to%20host/hum20.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/mccombie_5/Car%20Pictures%20-and%20other%20random%20crap%20i%20need%20to%20host/Legend03.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/mccombie_5/Car%20Pictures%20-and%20other%20random%20crap%20i%20need%20to%20host/Range_3B.jpg

When I think luxury car I think Phaeton or Mercedes, the Range Rover has always blurred these boundries, but I still dont consider it a luxury car. If i didnt go offroading I wouldnt need or own one.

mccombie_5
12-18-05, 01:42 PM
Actually, I would have no problem at all using something like this as a daily driver, or my only vehicle.... well, not this particular truck, because it isn'w 4WD, but one just like it that is.
I think I should have bought a truck instead of a Cadillac..... $5,000 2.5 years ago could have bought me some pretty nice trucks.... I was always fond of the '92-'96 F-150's myself.
Such nice looking trucks.... again, I would rather drive this then a Range Rover... not to mention be over $40,000 richer :)
http://www.pcshouston.net/images/2001.Green.Dodge.Ram.1500/05.JPG

That Ram would probably suck off road, or even if it had 4 wheel drive, its way too long and low, as are most Dodge, chevy and GMC trucks and SUVs.

Night Wolf
12-18-05, 01:55 PM
Yeah, they *can* be pretty good off-road.... and most people within the UK swear by them... thats fine.

If your Range Rover has mud all over it, big off-road tires and scratches/dents...... then I salute you for usingthe vehicle as it was designed... adn in your case, the Range Rover is a perfect match.

I just personally never even see any Land Rover being used off-road... then again, here, we have many more trucks better suited for the job.

This is what comes to mind when I think Range Rover:

23" Spinnaz

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/789000-789999/789339_3.jpg

need that grille guard in case he hits a shopping cart while going to Best Buy, ya know? oh and billet grille = bling

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/789000-789999/789339_4_full.jpg

those long highway rides in an off-road vehicle may get boring... so now you can watch a movie....

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/789000-789999/789339_7_full.jpg

People in the back wanna watch the movie too!

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/789000-789999/789339_9_full.jpg

Here ya go: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/789339

Personally I don't think an off-road vehicle should have TV screens and DVD players in it... ok, so he added those... but a TRUCK or off-road vehicle should have a million gadgets.... even auto climate control is pushing it.... and no truck should have leather seats.... actually, I don't even like leather seats, if I ever bought a RAM/Silverado, I would make certain it dosn't have leather seats.... in some cars (mid size sedans) I prefer the cloth over leather.... only in premium luxury "cars" do I not mind the leather. The list goes on....

mccombie_5
12-18-05, 02:04 PM
Yeah, they *can* be pretty good off-road.... and most people within the UK swear by them... thats fine.
If your Range Rover has mud all over it, big off-road tires and scratches/dents...... then I salute you for usingthe vehicle as it was designed... adn in your case, the Range Rover is a perfect match.
I just personally never even see any Land Rover being used off-road... then again, here, we have many more trucks better suited for the job.
This is what comes to mind when I think Range Rover:
23" Spinnaz
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/789000-789999/789339_3.jpg
need that grille guard in case he hits a shopping cart while going to Best Buy, ya know? oh and billet grille = bling
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/789000-789999/789339_4_full.jpg
those long highway rides in an off-road vehicle may get boring... so now you can watch a movie....
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/789000-789999/789339_7_full.jpg
People in the back wanna watch the movie too!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/789000-789999/789339_9_full.jpg
Here ya go: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/789339
Personally I don't think an off-road vehicle should have TV screens and DVD players in it... ok, so he added those... but a TRUCK or off-road vehicle should have a million gadgets.... even auto climate control is pushing it.... and no truck should have leather seats.... actually, I don't even like leather seats, if I ever bought a RAM/Silverado, I would make certain it dosn't have leather seats.... in some cars (mid size sedans) I prefer the cloth over leather.... only in premium luxury "cars" do I not mind the leather. The list goes on....

My Range Rover, i will admit has toys like that, Navigation, leather, premium stereo, climate control etc, honestly the only one i ever get any benefit from iis the stereo, leather *is* easier to clean in an off roader, doesnt get mud embeded, but mine has seat covers on it anyway, as has the back got a liner in it, it has the standard factory wheels, I also dont get the BLING thing with any truck, My ESV was a standard factory car, nothing altered about it, I dont nderstand why peopel do this. THe Range ROver, in the states at least has a soccro mom image, there it seems to be compare dthe the Lexus, Mercedes and BMW X5, in the country, tis compared to, well, nothing, because there isnt anything that can beat it off road here.

It is way better inside and out than those, because it is a real off road vehicle, whereas I really wouldnt take any Escalade or Suburban places i go in the Landie, because they would cough and die, or get stuck on a ridge somewhere.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-18-05, 02:04 PM
Well Rick pretty much owns this thread! :tongue2:
lol jk

Night Wolf
12-18-05, 02:05 PM
That Ram would probably suck off road, or even if it had 4 wheel drive, its way too long and low, as are most Dodge, chevy and GMC trucks and SUVs.

Yes, the first thing I would do is get rid of those running boards.

That is 2WD, they sit lower then the 4WD trucks.

Of course for any real offroading, it would get a 3" suspension lift or so..... I was just saying I would love to drive that RAM as a faily driver... I would enjoy it.

stock for stock, in a pickup truck, Toyota has some of the best ground clearance/stance... the TRD package is pretty nice. I like the Tacoma alot... the '01-'05 (?) are my favorite.

The '92-'96 Ford F-series were pretty darn tall too.

I personally really like extended cab pickups... not the full 4 door quad cabs, but the small set of rear doors... I don't care for regular cab trucks unless it is a work truck.

Personally the somewhat low stock ride of a truck like the RAM is no worse then the big rims and small, non off-road tires that come standard on the Range Rover:

http://www.carstickerpro.com/~rmeurosport/6A900481-6sm.jpg

Blackout
12-18-05, 02:10 PM
The thing that killed the Phaeton is the same thing that is killing the XLR. Good car but nobody is willing to spend that kinda money for a VW or a Caddy. When the XLR's first came out they sold for shit and still to this day they are selling for shit. Me and Katshot saw F.C. Kerbeck with XLR's out front with the red tags on them trying to get rid of the damn things. So what does VW do? They dump the car. Smart IMO, they tried something new and it didn't work so take the hit and move on. Unfortunatly for Caddy they *for some reason* think they can get this to work. The regular XLR's were being given away damn near and still nobody bought them so what does caddy do? Make a more powerful version and bump the price over $100k. If they thought the XLR was a flop then i can't wait until this time next year and see how the XLR-V's have sold

Lord Cadillac
12-18-05, 02:12 PM
The Phaeton is a very nice car and if you're looking for something big and roomy, you'd have to take it over the XLR. But, if roominess isn't your objective, personally, I think the XLR is more impressive to be driving - at least here in America. Both cars are rare but I think the XLR turns more heads..

mccombie_5
12-18-05, 02:13 PM
Yes, the first thing I would do is get rid of those running boards.
That is 2WD, they sit lower then the 4WD trucks.
Of course for any real offroading, it would get a 3" suspension lift or so..... I was just saying I would love to drive that RAM as a faily driver... I would enjoy it.
stock for stock, in a pickup truck, Toyota has some of the best ground clearance/stance... the TRD package is pretty nice. I like the Tacoma alot... the '01-'05 (?) are my favorite.
The '92-'96 Ford F-series were pretty darn tall too.
I personally really like extended cab pickups... not the full 4 door quad cabs, but the small set of rear doors... I don't care for regular cab trucks unless it is a work truck.
Personally the somewhat low stock ride of a truck like the RAM is no worse then the big rims and small, non off-road tires that come standard on the Range Rover:
http://www.carstickerpro.com/~rmeurosport/6A900481-6sm.jpg

Thats a Range Rover Sport, its a different model, it isnt an off road car.

The real Raneg Rover has air suspension that can be adjusted, so you can lieterally lift yourself out of difficulty, it also has HDC. (Hill Descent Control) so you press a button and the car goes down hills itself.

The longer the hweelbase, the more it sucks off road.....

The wheelbase of the standard Range Rover is pretty big, but it is compensated by adjustable suspension, and the best wheel articulation on anry car ever.

mccombie_5
12-18-05, 02:17 PM
Some good points there Blackout, but the Phaeton wasnt really something VW expected to sell millions of, it was a rolling testbed for the Bentley Continental Flying Spur and GT.

In a similar way to BMW when they launched the Z1, it was a rolling testbed for the 8-Series.

Night Wolf
12-18-05, 02:17 PM
My Range Rover, i will admit has toys like that, Navigation, leather, premium stereo, climate control etc, honestly the only one i ever get any benefit from iis the stereo, leather *is* easier to clean in an off roader, doesnt get mud embeded, but mine has seat covers on it anyway, as has the back got a liner in it, it has the standard factory wheels, I also dont get the BLING thing with any truck, My ESV was a standard factory car, nothing altered about it, I dont nderstand why peopel do this. THe Range ROver, in the states at least has a soccro mom image, there it seems to be compare dthe the Lexus, Mercedes and BMW X5, in the country, tis compared to, well, nothing, because there isnt anything that can beat it off road here.
It is way better inside and out than those, because it is a real off road vehicle, whereas I really wouldnt take any Escalade or Suburban places i go in the Landie, because they would cough and die, or get stuck on a ridge somewhere.

Here, thats exactly what it is compared to... Lexus/MB/BMW luxury "SUV"

I guess I don't give Land Rover the credit they deserve... when I was a kid, I loved them... before they got all blingy and comfort and what not.

They ARE decent off-road vehicles... but their very high price, IMO kind of offsets that, meaning if I needed an SUV to get me around places that a car simply can not go, but I need the extra space and room of an SUV... I would simply buy a ~1998 Jeep Cherokee for about $7,000 and be done with it.

But yeah, in the UK Land Rover pretty much has the market cornered for off-road vehicles.... just not even close here.

Here are some Land Rovers I really like...

Defender90:

http://i4.ebayimg.com/01/a/05/b5/66/04_4.JPG

but damn... $30,000 for a 1994? no thanks (thats what I mean) I may as well go and get a similar year Hummer (H1... the real thing) But, I still like, and highly respect the D90.

Perhaps my favorite Land Rover though (when factoring in price) is this generation Discovery. Like I said, they just have a very cool safari-expedition look, I was in one a long time ago and it was nice. I wouldn't mind owning one of these.... you'd bet that it would be seeing some dirt though :)

http://p1.autorevo.com/97/pics/17416_1da797be-1e6d-494d-884b-e8c4160e643b.jpg

damn... $10,000..... that is a bargin too.... These just had alot of reliability problems.... but i still like them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-Rover-Discovery-LSE-1998-Land-Rover-Discovery-LSE-V8-Low-Miles-Leather-WOW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6294QQitemZ45974779 01QQrdZ1

mccombie_5
12-18-05, 02:33 PM
Here, thats exactly what it is compared to... Lexus/MB/BMW luxury "SUV"
I guess I don't give Land Rover the credit they deserve... when I was a kid, I loved them... before they got all blingy and comfort and what not.
They ARE decent off-road vehicles... but their very high price, IMO kind of offsets that, meaning if I needed an SUV to get me around places that a car simply can not go, but I need the extra space and room of an SUV... I would simply buy a ~1998 Jeep Cherokee for about $7,000 and be done with it.
But yeah, in the UK Land Rover pretty much has the market cornered for off-road vehicles.... just not even close here.
Here are some Land Rovers I really like...
Defender90:
http://i4.ebayimg.com/01/a/05/b5/66/04_4.JPG
but damn... $30,000 for a 1994? no thanks (thats what I mean) I may as well go and get a similar year Hummer (H1... the real thing) But, I still like, and highly respect the D90.
Perhaps my favorite Land Rover though (when factoring in price) is this generation Discovery. Like I said, they just have a very cool safari-expedition look, I was in one a long time ago and it was nice. I wouldn't mind owning one of these.... you'd bet that it would be seeing some dirt though :)
http://p1.autorevo.com/97/pics/17416_1da797be-1e6d-494d-884b-e8c4160e643b.jpg
damn... $10,000..... that is a bargin too.... These just had alot of reliability problems.... but i still like them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-Rover-Discovery-LSE-1998-Land-Rover-Discovery-LSE-V8-Low-Miles-Leather-WOW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6294QQitemZ45974779 01QQrdZ1


We had one of those Discoveries, well, the 2003, which has Range Rover look lights, but its the same car, it wasnt as good as the Range off Road.

This one:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/mccombie_5/Car%20Pictures%20-and%20other%20random%20crap%20i%20need%20to%20host/lrdisc.jpg
The best part was that it had seven seats, and it really did the family job, it had the V8 too, I did use it twice off road, but I didnt like it AT all.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-18-05, 02:47 PM
Like Rick, I am also gonna get 2-3 cheaper cars instead of one $20,000-30,000 executive car like an A8, or 7 Series. I am thinking that after I get out of college, and after I get a good job and an apartment, I will start buying my next cars.
I have 3 types picked out
-1993-97 Town Car/ 1994-96 Fleetwood Brougham
This would be my daily driver/luxury car. The things I like the T/C more are: It's easier for me (5'6") to drive because of the lower beltline and better visibility, it feels much smaller than my old Roadmaster, and its better looking in some angles especially on the 93-94's. And it has the driver's information center which I love. The things I like more on the FWB are: it seems more solidly built, and it seems like it has a higher grade of leather, and that excellent LT1 350, its faster, and its better looking in some angles, and it has a sheer presence that the T/C doesnt.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/cadillac/fleetwood/96flt3.jpg
http://images.consumerguide.com/autoreview/400x266/1993-96-Cadillac-Fleetwood-93122251990413.JPG
http://images.consumerguide.com/autoreview/400x266/1990-97-Lincoln-Town-Car-96115141990104.JPG
http://i21.ebayimg.com/02/a/05/7d/8e/f8_4.JPG

-1993-98 Lincoln Mark VIII
This satisfies the need for a fast sports coupe. I dont wanna sacrifice luxury and comfort for speed like I would in a Trans Am. Granted, the TA's are a LOT faster but they ride terribly, and are loud and rough. I've always liked the Mark VIII's looks especially the 93-95's.
http://images.consumerguide.com/autoreview/400x266/1993-98-Lincoln-Mark-VIII-96115151990110.JPG
http://images.consumerguide.com/autoreview/400x266/1993-98-Lincoln-Mark-VIII-93115151990315.JPG

- 1972-76 Lincoln Continental Mark IV.
This is probably my favorite classic car ever, and one of my favorite cars of all time. This satisfies my want for some classic detroit iron. I love the looks, the luxury, the image.I mean other than Lincoln, who was using fashion designers to design their interior trim? This car has a lot of potential for performance, and is simply cooool :cool2: in my book!
1976 Mark IV Cartier Edition
http://automotivemileposts.com/files/mark41976cartier.jpg
http://automotivemileposts.com/files/mark41976cartierdovegreyvelour.jpg

mccombie_5
12-18-05, 02:53 PM
I like the VIII, I like the Fleetwood too. I doubt I will buy another American car in the near future, I ahve plenty for now..

Night Wolf
12-18-05, 03:07 PM
Have any pictures of your Range Rover all muddy and scratched? :)

mccombie_5
12-18-05, 03:26 PM
Have any pictures of your Range Rover all muddy and scratched? :)

I took some not long after I got it, when i took it it had been off road, but im not sure there was much damage

let me look

Randy_W
12-18-05, 03:34 PM
When was the word 'ultra', replaced by the German word 'uber', in our vocabulary? Is that anything like "chow baby"?:rolleyes:

Playdrv4me
12-18-05, 04:20 PM
The Range Rover Sport is a joke, the Freelander is another oddity. However you simply can not leverage poor capability claims against the Range Rover, Discovery, Defender, and lastly the LR3 which replaced the Disco. All of these are designed to take the worst you can throw at them in the African Sahara and at least in the Disco and Range, coddle you in luxury at the same time.

I know Mccombie doesnt consider his very luxurious, but at least on this side of the pond all the reviews, and indeed most of the Range Rover commercials tout the thing as a rolling palace. Granted it isnt up to the level of the Phaeton, but I would certainly throw it in the mix with the old 7 Series or S Class. The wooden pillars on the dash are very very well done, opera lighting, Harmon Kardon Logic 7 550 Watt sound system, Plush leather seating, chrome and anodized aluminum finishes. The 03+ is light years ahead of the previous generation. I *personally* do considet it a luxury vehicle combined with the best offroad ability of almost any sport ute in the U.S. The only one that comes close is the Wrangler, and the Mercedes G500 which has two solid locking differentials on both axles (as does Wrangler Rubicon). The Volkswagen Touareg is another luxury SUV that KICKS ASS offroad. The Touareg will give the Range Rover a run for its money in fact.

AND.. I DO plan to take it offroad, I love occasional romps or mudding. Its pretty fun. I would be more careful with a Range than say an old CJ, but I certainly would still have fun with it.

Also, If I get the Range Rover or an XLR, I would also like to get a 96-98 STS or 97 Mark VIII LSC as a second daily driver car if I am fortunate enough to be able to. Those two cars are pretty special to me.

mccombie_5
12-18-05, 04:27 PM
Oh dont get me wrong, I do consider it luxurious, moreso than the 2000+ S class mercedes, of which I had one, and tis better, I just dont consider it a luxury car, I wouldnt go out and buy one if I was in the market for a luxury car again, If I did I wouldnt have bought the VW or ordered the Jaguar.

I just dont understand why epopel buy 4x4 vehicles and never go off road.

Playdrv4me
12-18-05, 04:52 PM
Its hard to explain for me Mccombie... I am one of those people who likes SUV's for some reason. I *AM NOT* a "trend" person, let me make that VERY clear (not that I would care if I were though), BUT I have been a fan of SUVs since before the SUV craze hit.

I fell in love with the original 1984-2001 Jeep Cherokee (and still consider it one of the most timeless designs in automotive history, as a result both my dad and brother own Jeeps, and I have owned two in the past), as well as the very first 1991 Ford Explorer. There is something about the tall truck style I really like. I really like riding higher off the ground than in a car as well. I am stuck in a terrible place because as soon as I start drivign SUV's I begin to long for the occasional jaunt in a sporty sedan again, and then when Im in a sedan I long for the high seating position and stance of an SUV. Which is what I really need is a PERFORMANCE SUV, but right now there are none that I find appealing, or can afford. The Range Rover does the BEST job of appealing to all my wants and needs for an SUV...

*Excellent BMW craftsmanship, gorgeous decals and paint finish, parts and pieces go together perfectly.
*All the interior luxury I am used to... Nav (although crappy), nice radio, again... beautiful interior.
*Powerful and capable enough to tackle any offroad obstacles you can throw at it with Hill Descent Control, Stability Control, 4WD etc.
*Technology out the wazoo including LED Tail lamps, Xenon headlamps, adjustable air suspension etc.
*Unmistakable Land Rover heritage.

I used to like the Escalade alot as well... especially the EXT, but that wore off eventually as I find them just a tad too big for me to personally enjoy.

mccombie_5
12-18-05, 05:19 PM
I am in a similar position, I had a Range Rover way back in 1980, LONG before they were trendy, I learned to off road in that, it was the original 2 door model. In 1987 (still pre trend) I had a five door model, and in 1995 I moved out of the Land Rover camp because of the trouble I had with the 87, so I got a 1995 Izusu Trooper Commercial 3.1 Turbo Diesel. In 1999 I got my first Cadillac, the Escalade, it was a daily driver for a little while whilst i Had it, then I sold it. In 2002 I got my current Range Rover after seeing it in magazines I decided to go againts my vow not to buy a Land Rover again and test it, I thought it was great so i got one. In 2003 we needed a big car to carry my family, so we got a 2003 Discovery V8. Then this year I got a 2005 Cadillac Escalade ESV Platinum, and as much as I like having a great felxible car, i decided it wasnt really practical for daily use, so I sold it.

I have enjoyed off roading since my very first 1980, and I habve loved Range Rovers ever since.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/mccombie_5/Car%20Pictures%20-and%20other%20random%20crap%20i%20need%20to%20host/mal715p003.jpg

I had one just like the one above, only in black

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/mccombie_5/Car%20Pictures%20-and%20other%20random%20crap%20i%20need%20to%20host/bba-350.jpg

Then one of these ^

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/mccombie_5/Car%20Pictures%20-and%20other%20random%20crap%20i%20need%20to%20host/Trooper1.jpg

Then this

The Izusu was good, apart from the fact it was less user friendly than the landies.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-18-05, 09:08 PM
When I get that Mark IV, I will get vanity plates that say "IVplay"
LOL!!!!

SilverFleetwood85
12-19-05, 07:38 PM
Well, I dont think it is any secret on this forum that I go nuts over uber-craftsmanship, high end stuff... (I picked up a Nokia 770 Internet Tablet today thats just uber cool), and I can certainly understand the MAJORITY of (smart) people who just dont share my fascination with gadgets and the coolest cars. In the end all of it is really basically impractical, BUT unfortunately Ive been cursed with the eyes for that stuff.

In all honesty however, what other people think about what Im driving is not of so much importance to me, as how the vehicle makes ME feel when Im driving it. I love the Range Rover, Phaeton etc. because they are cars that just make me feel like the world revolves around me while Im driving them. I love to be surrounded by technology and surfaces that exude quality and craftsmanship. Lets just say I never had a great dating life, so I tend to notice and enjoy all these things as much as the lines of a beautiful woman. Its almost intoxicating. I am drawn to these cars because each one is an experience you get to enjoy every day you own it. The Range Rover represents a tough guy, go anywhere road warrior that is deceiving because its an otherwise gorgeous luxocruiser inside and out, the Phaeton is a land yacht and rolling living room all in one, and the XLR is like a sculpted piece of fine art that goes like snot.

.... sigh... getting off on a tangent... Im just REALLY into cars, watches and gadgets, even though I cant afford them most of the time. Still, I set a goal and I work toward it. Depending on which car I choose, I WILL own it one way or another within the year.

Ian.

You and me both, I am a huge fan of well made, beautifully designed products (just don't have the money to always buy them). The Phaeton is a car that is exquisitely made look at the woods, leathers, aluminum, chrome, and plastics they use, I have yet to find them in any other car made for that price range. The paint quality is superb, orange peel is almost non existant, something that mercedes, BMW, and Lexus have way too much of. The car does not even have a conventional heating system instead it has central heat (like a home) for even heat distribution. It is so good that Bentley uses its chassis for some of its cars. Well thats my take on the Phaeton. The XLR is a really nice car and is by far the best looking Cadillac that they build right now. It has a pretty cool feature which not if any cars have, no door handles, it is just soft buttons that you push to open the doors. The Range Rover, is a beautiful vehicle, it still carries the traditional lines that make a Range Rover look like a Range Rover, the interior is unique with its use of leathers and wood, along with a dash only the British could design. On top of its great looks the car is also unbeatable offroad with its many 4WD modes and rugged chassis. Jeez I feel like I am writing a brochure for these cars. LOL. Some people (very few) do buy these cars for their quality, the way they drive, and uniqueness, so it is unfair to say that EVERYONE is a snob who owns one.

davesdeville
12-20-05, 03:42 AM
Yo, yo, da XLR be da shizznit wit da diamond encrusted 22"s, yo! (*bling* Insert gold tooth smilie here. *bling*)

No. That isn't the attitude of many (if ANY) XLR buyers. Escalade buyers yes, XLR buyers no.


Am I surprised? No. Would I buy one? No. The original concep, the Evoq was hot-looking but for some reason, I don't like the XLR.

I think the exact opposite way. Evoq - meh. XLR - schweet!

Anyway I'm gonna buy an XLR in about 5-8 years.

mccombie_5
12-20-05, 05:02 AM
The XLR to me isa Corvette with hot styling and a heavier, metal roof.

It doesnt strike me, my wife likes it. She isnt getting one.

Randy_W
12-20-05, 08:55 AM
The XLR to me isa Corvette with hot styling and a heavier, metal roof.

It doesnt strike me, my wife likes it. She isnt getting one.

You dominate your wife?? My wife drives whatever she likes, after all, it is her car!

mccombie_5
12-20-05, 12:25 PM
You dominate your wife?? My wife drives whatever she likes, after all, it is her car!

No no, she dominates me! Nah I have it pretty well in this sense, I mean that she likes it, however she wont be buying one. Shes said this to me, loves the XLR, but doesnt want A) another LHD car and B) another American car, she wants a change and decided she would like something more repsonsive in corners, therefore the sports cars come into it.

Randy_W
12-20-05, 01:30 PM
O.K. Mc, it just sounded like you were telling her what she could drive.:cool:

mccombie_5
12-20-05, 01:42 PM
O.K. Mc, it just sounded like you were telling her what she could drive.:cool:

LOL

You think if I cold do that she'd be drving my Benz?

;)

:thumbsup:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-20-05, 03:36 PM
no, she would have a Citroen SM....:sneaky:
http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/100-greatest/03-large/29-citroen-sm.jpg
or the Citroen DS
http://www.citroen-ca.com/IMAGES/DS21.jpg
What were they thinking? :nono:

mccombie_5
12-20-05, 03:38 PM
no, she would have a Citroen SM....:sneaky:
http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/100-greatest/03-large/29-citroen-sm.jpg
or the Citroen DS
http://www.citroen-ca.com/IMAGES/DS21.jpg
What were they thinking? :nono:

I love both of those :suspect:

I had a DS in the mid 80s. It was one of the really old ones, fantastic car to own!!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-20-05, 03:47 PM
really? I have always thought they were very odd cars, milestones none the less, and The SM (slave and master?) was a very advanced car for the early 1970's

mccombie_5
12-20-05, 03:51 PM
really? I have always thought they were very odd cars, milestones none the less, and The SM (slave and master?) was a very advanced car for the early 1970's

I believe the SM came from the time that Citroen owned Maserati. One of my teachers had one in school, it was agorgeous.

I had a 1956 DS, in if I remember 1984. It was a stunning car, I love the looks, and it was even further advanced than the SM, compared to the time. Headlights that turn as the wheels do? The 1956 DS had them...