: Are American Auto Makers on the rocks???



ben72227
12-16-05, 11:19 PM
"I don't think they [consumers] should feel sorry for [GM and Ford]," he said. "I really think that what has happened to the companies is the fault of GM and Ford. You could blame other carmakers, the union [workers], health care costs, but it was the management of the companies that made the decisions.

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4023659&src=Home&pos=Edit2

So, what do you think?:thumbsup: Personally, I think GM is making a good comeback, but they need to score a homerun CAR, whether it be a muscle car, family sedan, whatever. We need a RWD, fun to drive car from GM, and it better be at the Detroit Auto Show!:
http://autoshow.msn.com/as/preview.aspx?shw=autoshow2006

DopeStar 156
12-16-05, 11:42 PM
GM is making a good comeback. Despite their current lay offs and all that shit they're not doing so bad. The new Impala is great and definately an improvement. The cops might start buying them up and kicking their puny 4.6 Crown Victorias to the curb. I think if the two most successful GM brands are Caddy and Chevy. They seem to be very popular right now. Chevy has tons of potential and if we see a Camaro and a RWD Monte Carlo they'll be back in ass kicking business. Also if the other divisions get their own Impala variations then we'll be in business. Buick's new Northstar powered car looks promising for them. The other divisions will follow suit.

Playdrv4me
12-17-05, 12:03 AM
Regardless of what wet dream they decide to follow with Buick, Saturn and Pontiac... IF they can introduce some REALLY GOOD mainstream bread and butter product in the Chevrolet line, I think they could start to gain ground very quickly. As it stands right now, I dont see it.

Sandy
12-17-05, 12:27 AM
I think that I could not DISagree MORE with any statement that begins, "What ever happens to them, they deserve" -or- "I can't feel sorry for domestic car makers" -or- "Serves them right" -or- anything similiar to that. These people have no clue.

Whatever happens to our domestic car industry will effect 90% of all Americans. The auto industry is the biggest and furthest reaching industry we have. Steel, glass, rubber, aluminum, paint, coatings, steel, on & on & on. As goes the domestic car industry - so goes America, so you danm better care!

I would never ever buy any German or Japanese car, no matter where on earth it was made. A Volvo or Saab, yes, I'd buy if I HAD TO. Likewise a Jag.

When you "Vote" for a brand WITH you money (you "Vote" by buying it) you are also supporting the homeland from wench that car comes from, 'Ya, even if it's made in South Carolina, dat don't matter.

I've only owned Chrysler, GM & Ford products in th epast 42 years. I have had 2 lemons (a pontiac & a buick) outta 24 new car purchases, or 8% ~ all the rest were near perfect or perfect. I see absolutely no reason to look across the pond for toothpaste, white bread, or cars !
We have exciting cars here Cadillac XLR Buick Lucerne, Pontias Solstice, Chevy SS & Corvette, Ford Mustang, Mercury Milan, Dodge Hemi Charger, Magmun, Chrysler 300C, Viper and others.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-17-05, 12:37 AM
That Milan is damn impressive for a Mercury! It's really bringing the brand in with the younger crowd!

DopeStar 156
12-17-05, 01:08 AM
Sandy is completely right, if you don't support the American Auto Industry we're all screwed. The foriegn countrys have other things that keep their economy afloat however America's Economy relies heavily on companies like General Motors, Ford, and Dahlmer Chrysler. I've never bought a foriegn car and never will. There's something about driving an American car that gives you a sence of pride. Nothing gives me that pride more than my Chevy. Chevrolet is the ultimate american car. They should just make the bowtie red white and blue for god's sake. When I hear the words "American Car" Chevrolet is the first thing that pops into my head. Ford comes in a very close second too. The cars are well built and the only reason there have been so many less than perfect cars from the American companies is because the American car buying market has no idea what it wants. They want massive power and exquisite fuel economy. They want lots of room but a small car. They want something practical that goes really really fast. It's like the companies are getting so many obscure requests that they put out a product that goes and flops. It was so much easier 25 years ago when a car was a car and that was it. People need to accept the fact that they can't have both in most cases. Chevy made the Aveo to satisfy those interior room small car fanatics and what do you get? A zit on wheels.... Any suffering they're doing is not their fault, they're just trying to satify these obscure requests.

ben72227
12-17-05, 01:53 AM
I'll buy American if they have what I'm looking for, and if it's the best available product, but I'm not going to make some sort of sympathy purchase to save American jobs. Hell, if its Americans that are building my Honda in Ohio or building my Hyundai in Alabama, I'm certainly not going to feel guilty about it.

Besides, like I said, they're making improvements, but they haven't gotten there QUITE yet. For example, if I wanted to buy a small sporty car, and it came down to a Cobalt SS and a VW GTI...well, I'd go with the GTI. And who wouldn't? Sure, it may have VW reliability...but its still more fun to drive, looks better (I'm talking about the NEW '06 .5 model), has a better interior, and I know I will get my money's worth.

If I were going to get a midsize car...I'd probably get a Mazda6/Sonata, and I MIGHT look at the Ford Fusion. Nothing GM has, though, even remotely interests me - the Malibu is mediocrity at its finest, as is the G6:yawn:. Don't even get me started on the Saturn L-series...:thehand:...

That's what I'm talking about - the cars that everyday people can afford (i.e. anything less than $25,000) - GM doesn't have any winners. I mean, and its a shame too, because they could. The G6 could have been a great car - it doesn't look half bad, but it had drum brakes, a pushrod engine, and its FWD, all which are faux pas in today's modern automotive designs...

Besides, I think NOT buying American (because they have inferior product) sends them a message that if they want sales, they had better shape up. If you buy American for "sympathy" then they have no incentive to improve product, and you end up with K-car like things...:tisk:

Playdrv4me
12-17-05, 03:49 AM
I'll buy American if they have what I'm looking for, and if it's the best available product, but I'm not going to make some sort of sympathy purchase to save American jobs. Hell, if its Americans that are building my Honda in Ohio or building my Hyundai in Alabama, I'm certainly not going to feel guilty about it.

I dont always agree with you, but I have to here.

I want us to all take this to a smaller scale for a moment. Lets say you were my friend and I knew you were looking to buy a Widget. Well hell... I MAKE Widgets here in the U.S.A!

I see that you have your eye on some foreign Widgets, or hell, even someone elses domestic Widgets... but I go up to you and say... "Hey man, since your my friend, and my widgets are built here in the U.S., I think you really should buy mine regardless of what else youve seen. Cause really, if you dont buy my widget you are disrespecting our friendship and hurting the domestic economy!"

Who would have tha gall to say something like that to another person? Buy MY product because were friends, or on a larger scale, because its made here in the U.S., even though its not as good as the other product and may cost more... Its ludicrous. The point of economy is not to have dollar bills, but to have goods and services in trade for those dollars at a reasonable cost. Its not about hoarding all the cash in one place. Mexico learned this when trading tons of land for Gold.

NOW... ON THE OTHER HAND... I watched a special recently on Wal-Mart's insatiable appetite for Chinese/Taiwanese/Malaysian produced "CHEAP GOODS" that they can sell here at INSANE markup levels and in doing so not only produce staggering profits, but also drive domestic producers of such goods out of business. Now Im not so much bothered in that respect by the producers going out of business, as the low prices WalMart sells the goods for have the capability to give consumers more money to spend elsewhere, and then create other jobs in those markets... BUT... From a PERSONAL point of view, it really pisses me off now (I wish I had never seen this thing) that anytime I go to buy anything, ESPECIALLY electronics, I check to see where its made... and it doesnt matter WHOSE name is on the front (Sony, Samsung, Panasonic)... if the product is MADE IN CHINA, you are paying a huge percentage more for it than it cost to make. Look at the declining quality of electronics over the past 10 years... most of the 2-5000.00 Televisions sitting so prominently at your local retailer, cost a smidgen of that to produce, and the materials and build quality SHOWS THAT. Most of those TVs are produced by a company called TCL, or one like it. Thats on top of all the new branded shit thats also flooding the shelves... (Syntax-Olevia, Init, Initial, Averatec, MAXENT... etc.)

So Im trying to only buy American, Japanese, German, Swiss etc. products from now on. Not because I care so much where the items were made, but it bothers me knowing Im being charged 20.00 for a cable that Circuit City is making 19.00 of profit on. I want what Im buying to cost the merchandiser almost as much as Its costing me to buy, with a HEALTHY profit margin, not an outrageous one.

SilverFleetwood85
12-17-05, 05:08 AM
I understand the desire to support the American Auto Industry but to say that our economy depends on the american auto industry is a little extreme. Most of the parts that the auto industry uses are bought from suppliers in the US who make the parts in other parts of the world. Its all about profit, Ford, Chrysler, and GM are all in it for the money they lay off American workers so they can make their cars in other countries who do not have as many labor laws and environmental laws. Along with less stringent laws they also have an abundance of people willing to work for very little money. GM for example now makes the 3.4 Liter V6 in China which used to be made in Mexico. Chryslers "great American engine, the Hemi is made in Mexico. Lincolns new car the Zephr (not sure how it is spelled) is made entirely in Mexico. Look at the Pontiac Vibe, that car is actually a Toyota Matrix. The Chrysler Crossfire is actually a rebadged previous generation mercedes SLK. The Ford Explorer, America's best selling SUV, 4.0 Liter SOHC engine is made in Germany and its transmission is made in France. All of the above examples are reasons why American consumers should not feel like they have to buy American cars. On top of this most domestic cars just are not up to the quality of the imports. I do think their are some good American cars but most are upper line models from primarily Cadillac and Lincoln.

noahsdad
12-17-05, 09:56 AM
To answer the initial question, no. American auto manufacturers are in the same shape as all auto manufacturers. Toyota and Honda are the only two companies that would be left standing if we suffered a severe economic depression; and even Toyota might have some trouble. Nissan, Kia, Hyundai - they didn't build plants in the US because they want to be nice to us. They built them here because without the US market they cannot survive. Their own home market has been battered by a severe recession lasting almost 20 years.

Here's the simple truth: the current crop of manufacturer problems have nothing to do with quality of product. That's an American media generated mound of BS. The problem is simple economics. Because the biggest bubble of baby boomers are now reaching retirement age, auto industry planners know that they will likely buy one or two more cars in their lifetime. For the next 20 years, the number of new car buyers in America is going to dwindle. By 2030, the number will be slightly over half what it is today. Yet right now - THIS WEEK - the manufacturing capacity of domestic and foreign US based plants exceeds the current demand. All the manufacturers know that in order to survive, they must get leaner or die of obesity. Supply must be reduced by consolidation, merger, etc. That's exactly why Chrysler merged with Daimler. Don't be surprised if Ford buys Nissan in the not too distant future, Daimler Chrysler becomes Daimler Chrysler Mitsubishi, and GM absorbs Kia or Hyundai, or both, or perhaps they will shock the world by entering into a mega-merger with Toyota.

That explains why all the foreign manufacturers build these mammoth plants in the US. New, automated, hi-tech, non-union manufacturing plants in the south make you a much more attractive aquisition candidate than the obsolete, polluted, union infested plants in the rust belt.

I live in Michigan and know scores of people at the big three, from a Chrysler VP through a quality manager at GM to line workers at Ford. None of what you're reading in the papers today surprises anyone around here.
Delphi was doomed from the start, and GM has been planning these plant closings for years.

In a way, Sandy is right. Buying a foreign car does hurt American workers and the American economy. If you know the history of auto manufacturing, you know that some fine makes like Cord, Deusenberg, Packard and Studebaker did not fail because they built substandard product. They failed because once sales began sliding, cash reserves went down, R & D was cut, product lines were reduced, and finally bad press and public perception turned even loyal customers away. Who wants to buy a car from a dying company? (present Oldsmobile loyalists excluded)

Ultimately, it just becomes a question of who buys who. Trust me, you don't want Toyota owning GM, or Honda owning Ford. If that happens, better brush up on your Japanese my friend.

Jesda
12-17-05, 10:23 AM
The British arent any less British by the loss of their homegrown auto industry. They remain economically powerful thanks to most of the foreign-owned development and manufacturing that originates within their borders.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-17-05, 12:14 PM
Holy Shit Noahsdad, you have 200k on your 4.1?!?!?! Now I can see why you stick to those 4.1's so much!

noahsdad
12-17-05, 01:02 PM
Holy Shit Noahsdad, you have 200k on your 4.1?!?!?! Now I can see why you stick to those 4.1's so much!


Not quite - my '87 SDV has 47K right now - we're on the way to 200k. I told my wife if it makes it, I will personally drive it to the junkyard and let her operate the crusher. Then I'll let her buy a brand new XLR. Of course at 6k a year, we'll be driving the '87 for another 25 and a half years.
:thumbsup:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-17-05, 02:26 PM
ahhh I see I see. If I can get 200k on my 4.9 with the coolant leak. I will be amazed, and I will buy another caddy with a 4.9, maybe this time a Sixty Special or Fleetwood. It would be awesome to find a '92 Fleetwood Coupe!

ben72227
12-17-05, 02:33 PM
Ultimately, it just becomes a question of who buys who. Trust me, you don't want Toyota owning GM, or Honda owning Ford. If that happens, better brush up on your Japanese my friend.

True, but do you really think Toyota would even TOUCH GM??? I mean, all they'd get is a bunch of whiny Union employees, crappy factories, etc.

More than likely, they will wait for GM to go OUT OF BUSINESS and then they will snatch up all of the market share that GM lost...And we'll all have to drive Camrys!:lildevil:

SilverCTS
12-17-05, 02:50 PM
True, but do you really think Toyota would even TOUCH GM??? I mean, all they'd get is a bunch of whiny Union employees, crappy factories, etc.
More than likely, they will wait for GM to go OUT OF BUSINESS and then they will snatch up all of the market share that GM lost...And we'll all have to drive Camrys!:lildevil:

This is true.

Here is my take on this.

I think the US is capable of producing the world's greatest automobiles on the planet (by far and away). I just don't think GM and Ford are.

We design and build the best, most innovative products right here in the US.
Just some examples:


Boeing: Aerospace, best jet aircraft, space shuttle (enough said)
Cisco: Computer networking products, world class routers and gear
IBM: High end computers
Apple: iPod & Macintosh
Microsoft: Operatings systems and software (like 'em or not, they must be doing someting right)
Intel: Micro Processors
Texas Instruments: They make all the guts in all the gadgets

I think everyone would agree that these companies have nothing to worry about in terms of foreign competition.

Manufacturing in the US is alive and well, but GM and Ford are dead.


"I don't think they [consumers] should feel sorry for [GM and Ford]," he said. "I really think that what has happened to the companies is the fault of GM and Ford. You could blame other carmakers, the union [workers], health care costs, but it was the management of the companies that made the decisions.

This is wrong. It is both (mgmt & union workers).

Playdrv4me
12-17-05, 02:52 PM
As an aside, I was reading the pre-show preview for the 2006 Detroit auto show, and the bullet point under the 2006 GMT900 SUV's says at the end... "... GM Promises much better build quality this time around..."

THIS TIME??? Have you not BEEN building trucks for what... 50 years now?? This is where things get really ridiculous. If they havent been able to produce a quality product, under their OWN standards for the better part of half a century, why would I assume the next one is going to be any better?

That sounds pessimistic, but for some reason that little quote really bothered me. Its almost as if they were saying "Eh, well always get another chance if we mess it up this time."

DopeStar 156
12-17-05, 03:04 PM
GM won't go out of business. The federal government won't let them. They'll bail them out with aid if they have to.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-17-05, 03:16 PM
It will be extremely interesting to see how this pans out in the next 20 years.

Sandy
12-17-05, 03:19 PM
'Ya, like Chrysler? The Feds bailed them out so that 2 schmucks could sell them to Mercedes ? Gee, thanks!

I'd like to see Mercedes take the next generation S-Class and GIVE IT to Chrysler as an Imperial and NOT make a twin car outta it badged as any Mercedes, as a thank you. Mercedes will not even give them a car! Oh, ya, they give them the old SLK when the new SLK comes out, to re-body as a Crossfire. Great big deal, to Mercedes is coming a great big Thank You. Some "Parent" company ~ like parents buying you a used pair of sneakers, but you have to supply the shoe laces !

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-17-05, 03:24 PM
Sandy, what would you think if Cadillacs were made in say....germany? Not that this would ever happen, but its a theoretical question. You could also say "Would you ever buy a Mercedes Benz that was built and engineered in america"? Would you ever buy a used foreign car? That way, your money doesnt influence the company at all, just the previous owner.

Randy_W
12-17-05, 04:41 PM
The British arent any less British by the loss of their homegrown auto industry.

I dissagree, chapter and verse. The MG, Austin Healy, etc... were as much a part of British identity and soul as were The Beatles and Westminster Abbey.

Jesda
12-17-05, 06:09 PM
I dissagree, chapter and verse. The MG, Austin Healy, etc... were as much a part of British identity and soul as were The Beatles and Westminster Abbey.

But those were, in practice, mostly horrible or poorly engineered cars. Isnt the world better off without them?

Randy_W
12-17-05, 06:32 PM
But those were, in practice, mostly horrible or poorly engineered cars. Isnt the world better off without them?

In the 1960's-70's Japanese cars were by and large pieces of junk, wouldn't the world have been better off without them?

Jesda
12-17-05, 09:43 PM
In the 1960's-70's Japanese cars were by and large pieces of junk, wouldn't the world have been better off without them?

Yes and no.

Yes, which is why they improved them.
No, because they served a desperate need at the time for better fuel economy.

Night Wolf
12-17-05, 10:00 PM
Sandy, what would you think if Cadillacs were made in say....germany? Not that this would ever happen, but its a theoretical question. You could also say "Would you ever buy a Mercedes Benz that was built and engineered in america"? Would you ever buy a used foreign car? That way, your money doesnt influence the company at all, just the previous owner.

LOL.....

thats already happened:

http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/brauer/catera/media/00.cadillac.catera.f3-4.jpg

Anyway, American cars aren't going ANYWHERE... GM, Ford or Chrysler is not going to be bought out by Honda or Toyota... it is so foolish to even say that.

Honestly, with all the new American cars, mostly from Chrysler, alot form GM, and some from Ford... I have no reason at all to even think about looking to the imports.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-17-05, 10:23 PM
Well yes Rick, I knew the Catera was a rebadged Opel Omega made in Germany, but what If all Cadillacs were made in Germany by GM, would you still buy them?

ben72227
12-17-05, 11:26 PM
No. Well, actually, yes. Because we all know that German cars rock! If Cadillac was built in Germany, it would be a good car, because Germans know how to build GOOD cars. Whiny UAW workers, on the other hand, are a different story...With them, you'd better hope you get a "wednesday" car:p:devil:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-17-05, 11:44 PM
hmmm maybe we should take in some germans to build GM cars....... :hmm:

Jesda
12-18-05, 12:38 AM
Germans? No thanks. You ever see reliability on a recent VW, MB, or BMW?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-18-05, 02:02 AM
yeah, but the older M-B's were built like tanks and really well engineered and designed. Many said in the '70s, that the Benzes were the world's best automobile.

SilverFleetwood85
12-18-05, 02:05 AM
Germans putting together domestic cars wouldn't help the problem because they are still putting on substandard components into substandard cars. American Car manufacturers need to learn how to build cars that are actually well finished and reliable, something to push the Camry and Accord out of their positions as America's best selling cars.

Night Wolf
12-18-05, 03:22 AM
German cars have ALOT of reliability problems... most are electrical... but damn....

I really don;t like to say much bad about German cars.... well, the only brand I like somewhat is VW.... out of all the little 4banger compacts, VW gets my favorite...

I know it is 100% due to my friends '01 Jetta 1.8T 5spd. I have a thing for that car... dunno what it is, but I just really like it alot.

He had a '94 Jetta, 2.0, 5spd before that... I learned to drive manual on that car, I also did some work on it too. it was a cool little car.

Even after driving the 1.8T many times, I still havn't got the clutch down good... dunno why... I drove the Jeep Wrangler (5spd) for 15mins and was shifting perfect.... I don't stall the Jetta.... but my shifts are just not smooth... it grabs kinda weird.

I really like the styling of the last generation Jetta, it took a little while to grow on me, but I like it alot. The interior is really nice too, I like the color (tan/black) the layout, the quality. It has a really nice sound system... the dash and gauges are sweet.... the manual transmission feels nice... the engine is quite powerful too.

Only thing I really don't like, the car is made for small people.... when the shifter is in 1, 3 or 5 it is really hard to reacht he climate controls, you gotta reach around it... the radio is kinda close to you etc....

but all in all, it is a reall cool car.... in fact I was looking at some on ebay the other day.

If I wasn't getting a truck next, I would probably look into that generation Jetta.... 1.8T if I wanted to go fast, or a TDI (most likly) because diesels are cool and so is 50mpg.... though I don't really care about fuel mileage... either way, it would have a spd.

But the reality is, for the price of such a Jetta.... there are just so many cars or trucks I would rather have that come to mind.... 1995 Eldorado ETC, 1995 Seville STS, 2000 Seville STS.... then all the trucks I would want... and the reality is, if I was going to spend the money, I would rather buy one of those then the Jetta....still, I like the car quite alot.

http://myspace-594.vo.llnwd.net/00131/49/55/131435594_l.jpg

Ah well... sorry to get on a VW kick.... ignor it :)

ben72227
12-18-05, 03:35 AM
The interior is really nice too

:hmm:

Did I just see you say that you liked the interior of a VW? How strange. I could have sworn that you said


WOW, that GTi even includes the "interior by Rubbermaid" option.....sign me up!

just a week ago.

;)Whatever...

Night Wolf
12-18-05, 03:41 AM
Wow... someone is really bright here....

since when is an '01 Jetta the same car as an '06 GTI?

they are not even the same freakin car, I feel no need at all to explain myself any further.

93devillejet
12-18-05, 03:46 AM
yeah responding to the above post, the jetta is one really good car, I also have the 1.8t motor, and yes it is one of the best motors made, many magazines have agreed with that over the years. Yes I know the german cars have a bad rep with reliability but i think most of that is that people expect more when they buy a german car, from a $16k golf to a 150K s600 when someone buys these cars they feel it should be perfect (not saying they should'nt be) but they are still cars, and they will have problems here and there, but since it is a German car people feel they were cheated or something when there is a minor problem. Most people that buy a camry are just happy if the motor and tranny are ok they don't really care if there are little problems here and there. Thats my ramble on German cars, as for American cars, I think some are built pretty well, the new Cadillacs seem to be put together pretty well, they may have not reached the bench mark of interiors (vw and audi) but they have other aspects that make them nice.

ben72227
12-18-05, 04:09 AM
since when is an '01 Jetta the same car as an '06 GTI?

they are not even the same freakin car, I feel no need at all to explain myself any further.

Uh, almost all VW interiors look the same. Black "rubbermaid" surfaces with Vents at the top, a radio in the middle and climate controls on the bottom. They all seem to have chrome door handles too...

01 Jetta:
http://photos2.ebizautos.com/794/805248_16.jpg

'06 GTI:
http://i10.ebayimg.com/01/a/05/8d/40/37_4.JPG

Granted, the GTI is newer and updated but it still uses the SAME black rubber that VW has used for a long time, with vents at the top and climate controls at the bottom and...wait for it...chrome door handles!

Jeez Rick, don't be so hostile, I was just pointing out a contradiction you made:rolleyes:

Night Wolf
12-18-05, 04:32 AM
* you changed the picture....

Thanks for posting the pictures... I was on ebay looking at VW for the hell of it and not in the mood to have to find them...

Anyway... first, I simply made the rubbermaid comment, from your rant on GM cars that their interiors are rubbermaid... its bad when GM does it but ok for VW... in fact you praised the GTI interior.

I also never said weather I like the GTI interior or not, so therefore I did not make a contridiction :). I said it has the "rubbermaid option"... which is NOT a term I would ever use, but I simply pointed out that that your praise VW on the same thing you complain about GM.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with the "rubbermaid" interior in the VW or GM.

My friends Jetta is a really nice color combo... seats, carpet, lower door panels, lower dash are all tan, while top of dash, steering wheel and top of doors are black. It looks really nice and i like the color combo. I like the two-tone alot more then the montone black on that GTI.

I like the chrome door handles alot too.... one of the many little things that make me really like that car. Another thing I really like are the door handles VW has used for years and years... the kind you grab and pull... The factory Polk sound system is nice, it has tweeters on the front doors and tweeters on the rear doors, it sounds good. The dash is laid out nice and I really like the gauges, the layout and the colors at night.

Like I said, there are lots of things on that car that make me really like it, my friend is nice enough to let me drive it alot (well I am hardly in NY now) even though I am not too good with the clutch on that car. I would be proud to own the car and I would actually enjoy owning it and such.

Here are a couple pictures of the gauges....the one is blurry because with the flash off, my camera goes on slow shutter speed mode, and I coudln't hold it steady... but you can see the really cool colors of the dash at night... gosh i like it alot. Then the other pic is just with the flash... one thing i don't like about the car, probably because of the 4banger.... is the 3,000RPM @ 70mph... that just seems really high to me.

Ah man, good times... we were driving around in the '79 DeVille the whole night, then at 1:30 decided to go to White Castle.....55miles away (boarder for Noo Joysee), Chris wanted me to drive, so I put $17 of gas in and hit the highway..... got cruise control to work (wasn't last time) and enjoyed the hour trip or so.... got there, ate alot, walk out and it was snowing heavy, Chris wanted to drive back since the roads were bad and his tires are near bald... I had no problem with that. We did about 4mph the whole way back, the trip took about 2.5 hours, but we made it back fine. Obviously this picture was taken then I was driving down to White Castle.

He puts the arm rest up (this was the first Jetta to have an arm rest... he dosn't use it) I gotta drive with it down. I gotta say, its a pretty comfortable car, very solid on the highway, quite, dosn't feel like a small car at all.... it drives really nice. Basically this '01 Jetta is worlds better then my friends '01 Accord..... so much better.

Playdrv4me
12-18-05, 04:42 AM
Ya, I thought about that the other night... Ricks "Rubbermaid" interior comment isnt necessarily detrimental at all. Im sure you didnt mean it in the most complimentary context either, Rick... but I know it wasnt a slam on VW or anything, as much as just that the cars seem to have unexciting, but purposeful materials.

Night Wolf
12-18-05, 05:35 AM
Ya, I thought about that the other night... Ricks "Rubbermaid" interior comment isnt necessarily detrimental at all. Im sure you didnt mean it in the most complimentary context either, Rick... but I know it wasnt a slam on VW or anything, as much as just that the cars seem to have unexciting, but purposeful materials.

I was being 100% sarcastic with that remark.

Remember when Ben was on his Anti-GM, Pro-Toyota kick? the one that he says he wanted to "test" to see if any of us "took the bait"?

Yeah, it was in one of the many threads that got closed, that he stated how EVERY GM car from the Caviler to Cadillac's have rubbermaid interiors...

then he posts the picture of the GTI and says how fantastic the interior is, and the fit and finish....

yet it is the SAME black, rubbery stuff that was/is used on GM cars.... critisized for GM, praised for VW.

It wasn't my comment either, I used it after it was used by someone other then myself in the other thread.

Playdrv4me
12-18-05, 05:46 AM
Well i wasnt calling you out or anything, just saying i felt the comment was probably just sarcasm or taken out of context is all :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-18-05, 11:58 AM
yet it is the SAME black, rubbery stuff that was/is used on GM cars.... critisized for GM, praised for VW.

They use the same material??? Damn.....

ben72227
12-18-05, 01:11 PM
Yes they do use the same material, but VW actually TRIES to make it look good. GM is another story...:rolleyes:


Anti-GM, Pro-Toyota kick?


Yeah, and you were on a GM is god and everything else sucks kick...It goes both ways Rick...:thepan:

Night Wolf
12-18-05, 01:37 PM
Yes they do use the same material, but VW actually TRIES to make it look good. GM is another story...:rolleyes:




Yeah, and you were on a GM is god and everything else sucks kick...It goes both ways Rick...:thepan:

Actually, I am very pro-GM all the time.

You were bashing GM/pro-Toyota just for the sake of pissing people off.

I woudln't say GM is God... I would say that between GM/Ford/Chrysler, I have no reason in the very least to even look at imports. There are lots of Chrysler (Dodge, Jeep) that I really like, as well as some Fords.

Randy_W
12-18-05, 03:40 PM
Yes they do use the same material, but VW actually TRIES to make it look good. GM is another story...:rolleyes:




Yeah, and you were on a GM is god and everything else sucks kick...It goes both ways Rick...:thepan:

That's o.k. Ben, you're on a 24/7 troll roll, but we understand, it's the only way you can manage to keep attention on yourself!:thumbsup: