: AutoX - Potenza, FG2, Hotchkis eval



calicadi
12-12-05, 02:16 AM
I went to my first autocross with the Potenzaís, FG2ís and Hotchkis bars this morning. Iíll try to capture what felt like a blur while impressions are still fresh. This was a no points event, and I hadnít been to one of these since August 14, so my goal was more about evaluation of new components and seat time than pure competition. My times did get better as I got used to the differences and altered my inputs. The times were 55.538, 54.415, 53.159, shaving off a little more than a second each run.

Overall, these three components are a very good combination, but with 11/32nds of tread depth the tires are not competitive in this class. Iíll post my finish (or a link to it) once published. I expect to be at or near the bottom. My best was about a second slower than Kilr Cadís on bald F1ís and something around 4 seconds slower than best in class (an STi). Most of the others in this class (we all run street legal tires) had tread depths that were closer to 3/32nds.

Bottom-line though, I could point the car where I wanted it to go and thatís where it went. It floats less and steers more precisely. Exiting corners and rolling on the power produced the expected oversteer, but it was easily corrected without drama. Corner entry is something to behold. Understeer is greatly reduced. (In fact I think this is where I lost the most time, I couldíve driven those entries faster.) Body lean in corners is still there but not as pronounced and the suspension is staying under it much better. Slalom response is much better, too. The car stays poised and is less liable to start oscillating the weight.

Well, itís getting late so Iíll spare you more minutia, but if anyone has questions fire away. I havenít had the opportunity to test the Potenzaís in the rain yet. When I do Iíll let yíall know how they do.

lawfive
12-12-05, 03:37 PM
Sounds sweet. I don't want to hijack, but... does anybody have experience with only the Hotchkis bars and the regular FE4 shocks? I don't want a harsher ride, but I would like to have less lean if I could get it.

thebigjimsho
12-12-05, 07:07 PM
Sounds sweet. I don't want to hijack, but... does anybody have experience with only the Hotchkis bars and the regular FE4 shocks? I don't want a harsher ride, but I would like to have less lean if I could get it.law, you've got 482whp and you're still a wuss.:bouncy:

lawfive
12-12-05, 08:06 PM
Yes.

I routinely haul my wife around town and on multi-hour drives between cities. She's the prototypical anti-enthusiast: for her, it's all about getting from point A to point B in maximum comfort with minimum car-generated noise. What I have now is a nice cross between what I want and what she wants.

I also have no plans to track the car anytime soon... maybe after a stronger differential is available.

thebigjimsho
12-12-05, 08:11 PM
I'm sorry for confusing being a wuss to being P-whipped. j/k buddy, i just haven't found the right one to whip me yet.

lawfive
12-12-05, 08:19 PM
27 years and counting, for me. And I am NOT whipped; I can do any goddamned thing I want to do, as long as it's OK with her.

trekster
12-12-05, 08:42 PM
I don't have the FG2 package on my car. I was thinking of buying the hotchkis sway bars for my V. My question is that if I buy the sway bars and have them installed without the fg2.....would It still be worth buying the fg2 after buying the swaybars?

ace996
12-12-05, 08:49 PM
Cali,
Its the minutia that really matters...Great write-up. Its gonna be tough to beat bald F1s, too. Hopefully, no one is using FormulaV...my secret special weapon in street-class.
And forget about the STis, those darn AWD go-carts running 275s...
Keep fighting, and when the tires are worn...FormulaV or VPBite...and shhhhhhhhhh.....

Beast,
Youre better going QA1 if you don't have the FG2s, they are rebound adjustable...and don't need to be modded to use aftermarket springs.
-ace

trekster
12-12-05, 08:54 PM
Cali,
Its the minutia that really matters...Great write-up. Its gonna be tough to beat bald F1s, too. Hopefully, no one is using FormulaV...my secret special weapon in street-class.
And forget about the STis, those darn AWD go-carts running 275s...
Keep fighting, and when the tires are worn...FormulaV or VPBite...and shhhhhhhhhh.....

Beast,
Youre better going QA1 if you don't have the FG2s, they are rebound adjustable...and don't need to be modded to use aftermarket springs.
-aceSo I can actually use the elbachs lowering kit on the v? part number please!

BowenCT
12-12-05, 09:00 PM
For anyone not sure whether or not to upgrade to the FG2s, DO IT!!!!!!! Before any other mod gets done, do youself a favor and install the FG2s. Without a doubt the best mod I have done to my V. More harsh, no. Dramatically.....DRAMATICALLY improved high-speed stability, YES!!!!!!!

trekster
12-12-05, 09:02 PM
For anyone not sure whether or not to upgrade to the FG2s, DO IT!!!!!!! Before any other mod gets done, do youself a favor and install the FG2s. Without a doubt the best mod I have done to my V. More harsh, no. Dramatically.....DRAMATICALLY improved high-speed stability, YES!!!!!!! how much are the qa1's and how much are the fg2's?

ace996
12-12-05, 09:07 PM
About the same cost...1200ish..plus/minus. I believe TPIS has the QA1s, or you could just contact QA1. And yes, you could run the Eibachs without issue.
-ace

BowenCT
12-12-05, 09:18 PM
About the same cost...1200ish..plus/minus. I believe TPIS has the QA1s, or you could just contact QA1. And yes, you could run the Eibachs without issue.
-ace

True, the Eibachs can be used w/ the FG2s, but the car won't drop......you need the QA1s for that. There are multiple threads discussing this.

wildwhl
12-12-05, 09:27 PM
True, the Eibachs can be used w/ the FG2s, but the car won't drop......you need the QA1s for that. There are multiple threads discussing this.

BowenCT -

Correct, there are multiple threads.

Your analysis is incorrect though:

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/lowercts/index.html

Many, many V's have been lowered while retaining the FE4/FG2 Nivomat shocks with the simple mod outlined above.

Just trying to keep the facts straight.

Great writeup CaliCadi!

WW

BowenCT
12-12-05, 09:47 PM
BowenCT -
Correct, there are multiple threads.
Your analysis is incorrect though:
http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/lowercts/index.html
Many, many V's have been lowered while retaining the FE4/FG2 Nivomat shocks with the simple mod outlined above.

I knew that too. In fact I have a set of your spacers, thanks again. I guess I was just replying off the cuff and answering as if he were going to install Eibachs with unmodified shocks.

wildwhl
12-12-05, 10:01 PM
:grouphug: No prob, BowenCT.

I just didn't want to see another V owner run the sport shocks :banghead: when the FG2's are so much better :yup:

The QA1's are probably pretty damn sweet though...but I'll keep the setup I have now. Too much practice swapping out different sets of shocks and settings - really don't want to do it again :cookoo:

Of course, if someone wanted to buy me some :alchi: to help them :D

Dennisscars
12-13-05, 12:52 AM
Sounds sweet. I don't want to hijack, but... does anybody have experience with only the Hotchkis bars and the regular FE4 shocks? I don't want a harsher ride, but I would like to have less lean if I could get it.


I also have no plans to track the car anytime soon... maybe after a stronger differential is available.
They why?:thepan:
law, you've got 482whp and you're still a wuss.:bouncy:
I put them on mine, it stiffenend the lean up quite a bit. Ride abit more rigid but not too bad. Would be worse on the 5.

It also makes the steering more sensitive. Me likey.

wildwhl
12-13-05, 12:54 AM
Nice sig, Dennis :histeric:

Mutlu
12-13-05, 11:47 AM
Sounds sweet. I don't want to hijack, but... does anybody have experience with only the Hotchkis bars and the regular FE4 shocks? I don't want a harsher ride, but I would like to have less lean if I could get it.

I have the sway bars with the regular FE4 shocks and the improvement is much better than before. I had a chance to test them on the track and was very pleased. Definitely worth the price.

lawfive
12-13-05, 12:00 PM
Thanks for the info, bros.

Too lazy to search... the Hotchkis price? The install difficulty, and can it be done with only jackstands?

trekster
12-13-05, 01:49 PM
Thanks for the info, bros.

Too lazy to search... the Hotchkis price? The install difficulty, and can it be done with only jackstands?The price is about $1200 same as the fg2. Don't know about the other questions though.

ace996
12-13-05, 08:50 PM
The Hotchkis bars go for around 330-350. I've seen them for 330 at Vivid Racing.
-ace

calicadi
12-13-05, 09:54 PM
They why?:thepan:
I put them on mine, it stiffenend the lean up quite a bit. Ride abit more rigid but not too bad. Would be worse on the 5.

It also makes the steering more sensitive. Me likey.

Absolutely on sensitivity! It's like driving a different car. It feels like someone shaved 100 lbs off the front axel weight, but everything stays planted. How day doo dat?

Excellent example in that thumbnail how flat it stays!

calicadi
12-13-05, 10:26 PM
Cali,
Its the minutia that really matters...Great write-up. Its gonna be tough to beat bald F1s, too. Hopefully, no one is using FormulaV...my secret special weapon in street-class.
And forget about the STis, those darn AWD go-carts running 275s...
Keep fighting, and when the tires are worn...FormulaV or VPBite...and shhhhhhhhhh.....

Beast,
Youre better going QA1 if you don't have the FG2s, they are rebound adjustable...and don't need to be modded to use aftermarket springs.
-ace
I may have to try some of that stuff, I need every advantage I can get. Sunday I was going for clean runs using different lines to see what worked best. And the guy drivin' the lead STi is one the nicest you could meet. Drives the dog poop outta that thing. He's already broken one diff in it. I'll write some more when I get a chance. Gotta run out to the garage right now. Measurement request from secret wheel supplier.... :shhh:

ace996
12-13-05, 10:34 PM
Damn, Cali..why do you continue to taunt me with this "secret" wheel supplier...Us autoxers need to stick together, you know, how else are we gonna come close to those pesky rally-racers?

And yes, I do HIGHLY tout the value of tire softener. I found the VP juice to work slightly better than the FormulaV, but it is much more aggressive. Only thing, once you've used the juice there's no going back. There's no way to run with the juice-grip and then not use it...its that dramatic.

4 coats or until they don't suck anymore juice, black bag them for a day or two, remove from bag the night before (let them air-out outside, as metal will rust in the garage) and then drive SLOWLY to the event or change wheels at the event. You'll get about 4 solid 60 sec runs before they lose grip(if they're still moist, they'll be greasy the first 2 runs), so make them count. One trick I learned is to become an instructor, you get many runs with the newbies and learn the track by the time it's your turn.

Give 'em Hell,
ace

calicadi
12-14-05, 03:03 AM
Sorry I can't divulge yet, don't mean to taunt. Hopefully, since they're finally to the point of asking for measurments, it's getting closer. They're being ultra-sensitive about setting supply expectations. The forum will be the first to know when they're ready. I'll mention the Supporting Vendor program and if they pass, I'll pay it. Gotta get 'em first though.

When you say there's no way to run without the juice, I hope you mean they go back to normal when it wears off. Do they become degraded to the point you can't drive them safely on the street?

ace996
12-14-05, 06:40 PM
I understand about the wheels....

JUICE- no it doesn't kill the tires but it will feel like it. For new tires or lightly worn, FormulaV. For balding, over-heat-cycled, ready for trash skins...VPBite, and they come back to almost new.

I used FormV on street Azenis and it made them better than new. Think about it, if the NASCAR guys are willing to risk disqual/fines for using the stuff, and still do (PROBLEND-very expensive) it must do something...and it does. Let me know what you think if you use it.
Good luck,
ace