: Cadillac outsells BMW in the luxury segment?

12-09-05, 07:08 AM
Bob Lutz says:
The truth is, many of our new cars and trucks are doing exceptionally well, and have met with acclaim. My recent post about HHR is but one example. But it goes beyond HHR and Solstice. The Buick Lucerne is off to a good start, generating buzz on network television and earning “Best New Car” in the $30,000 to $45,000 category from Kiplinger’s Personal Finance magazine.
The Chevy Impala continues to be a strong performer — our top-selling car for 2005 so far. Especially encouraging is the strong demand for Impala SS, with its 303-hp small-block V8, Displacement-on-Demand and 28 miles per highway gallon.The Cadillac DTS was the best-selling vehicle in the prestige luxury segment in October, outpacing the second-place BMW 5-Series by 17 percent. How many of you knew that?

Full article:


12-09-05, 07:35 AM
What? No anti GM news in this post? Bah, Humbug!!:rolleyes:

12-09-05, 08:52 AM
Very interesting stuff. Why don't we hear more about this in auto magazines?

12-09-05, 09:57 AM
People are buying the H3?

12-09-05, 10:34 AM
People are buying the H3?
Why not?

12-09-05, 10:43 AM
Its underpowered and overpriced.

12-09-05, 11:46 AM
You can bet your last dollar that if the best selling luxury car in America was anything OTHER than a Cadillac or a Lincoln, it WOULD MAKE FRONT PAGE NEWSPAPER PRINT !!!

12-09-05, 01:19 PM
Not to be Captian Obvious, but it seems that car magazines are biased against american cars. But why?

12-09-05, 01:30 PM
Yeah I subscribe to that blog.

It's good but also just a marketing angle.

Impressed with the sales of the DTS though, that's very good news.

12-10-05, 05:37 AM
It also helps when your competitor's car looks like a god damned suppository. :)

12-10-05, 09:28 AM
I dont think the 7 Series is that bad.
I never got bothered by the Bangle design on the 7 series, but on the 5 series it's another thing.

12-10-05, 02:38 PM
Hate to rain on your parade, but the newspaper said the US auto companies are crumbling away. Ford (I think) had to lay of thousands of employees...And we all know GM laid off those 30,000 people last month.

Meanwhile, Hyundai hired thousands of AMERICANS this year in Alabama with the opening of their new plant. Sounds to me like GM just doesn't have its act together, and if they are that incompetent, I hope they crumble. Bad management and shoddy product = Americans having less than 40% of the Auto market when the Chinese finally start selling cars here...It's just a matter of time:thumbsup:

12-10-05, 02:49 PM
The DTS fleet sales figure into the numbers, I'd bet.


12-10-05, 03:20 PM
I dont really care who the americans are working for, as long as someone is using american workers to build their cars!

12-10-05, 03:24 PM
I wonder why Honda can build a product with much better fit and finish when they hire people from the same country that GM uses. Does Honda have higher standards? I mean no offence here, and I'm not trying to get anything started, but I've always been curious.

12-10-05, 05:22 PM
Yes and No. Honda (and most Japanese corporations for that matter) STRIVE To have the best possible product. The culture over there is very different. Over here, we come in, clock out, get paid, expect to get our weekends and vacations, etc.

Japan is different though. They're all about the "group" mentality. People take EXTREME pride in their jobs, and if they make a shoddy product, they are shamed, seriously:suspect:. They even skip vacations if need be because that's how serious they are at work. Most Japanese men work like 12-14 days, which explains part of the declining population problem - they're obsessed with work, they don't have time for families, etc. I mean, their co-workers ARE their family:cookoo:

Also, If GM was competitive, it wouldn't matter, but Honda got lucky - they just happened to be overly-ambitious and GM just happened to be ultra-complacent, and let's face it, early Honda models weren't anything special, but once they introducted the Accord, the VTEC engines, etc. they just became huge (Toyota too). And they strive to make their product better, to be the class leaders, etc. while GM is struggling right now to do what Honda was doing 5 years ago...

It's more complicated than that sure, GM has other things holding them back, like UAW workers, etc. but in the end, Honda just has better designs than GM, and GM has accepted it. Hell, they even buy engines from Honda (called the L66 V6 by GM) to use in the Saturn VUE:yup:

12-10-05, 08:09 PM
Yeah, so what you're saying is that Honda came in, worked their asses off and made some amazing products that hit a chord with the public, while at the same time, GM was resting on it's laurels.

12-10-05, 08:37 PM
Exactly. And while Honda pretty much invented THE fuel efficient car, GM was still trying to make big yachts. Of course, GM did TRY to make econocars, but they were crap. The Cavalier anyone??? Or the Cimarron? :p

By the time GM realized what was going on, it was WAY too late.;)

12-10-05, 08:46 PM
ahhh ok, and in trying to make their cars more fuel efficent, they made some big mistakes (HT4100, 350 Diesel,Chevette,Citation) and these big mistakes really tarnished GM's image and thats what really hurt them in the long run! Gotcha!

12-10-05, 09:19 PM
Ben is right on about the Japanese culture. These guys give their life to the company pretty much! No unions to fight, fiercely loyal workers, a culturally-bred sense of effeciency and pride in one's work, it's no wonder the Japanese build good cars. Just think what would happen if they would learn how to be innovators as well......

12-10-05, 09:27 PM
innovators as well......

Well, they Did innovate hybrids:thumbsup:...and they do make the best video games, and the best tvs, and the best electronics for that matter. I mean, I don't buy anything besides Sony hardly, except for computers, because VAIOs cost too much...but still...They did innovate the fuel efficient car...

12-10-05, 09:31 PM
My god, what if the Germans and the Japanese merged to become a super innovative, super efficent,super loyal, super smart. Oh god we would be screwed!


But seriously though, they could do some very great things :thumbsup:

They always say the best engineers are the germans and the japanese.

12-10-05, 11:27 PM
Sony SUCKS BADLY these days, except for a few select product lines (Walkman). Hybrids as we know it were developed by Volkswagen in the 80s. I wouldnt mind one of those robots though. I hate having to get the mail in the cold.

12-10-05, 11:50 PM
Hybrids as we know it were developed by Volkswagen in the 80s.

12-11-05, 12:49 AM

Really! It was a fully functional diesel-electric Golf.

12-11-05, 01:13 AM
Interesting....Damn Innovative Germans

12-11-05, 07:03 AM
Sony SUCKS BADLY these days, except for a few select product lines (Walkman). Hybrids as we know it were developed by Volkswagen in the 80s. I wouldnt mind one of those robots though. I hate having to get the mail in the cold.

Actually GM had working hybrids as far back as the late 1970's, they just didn't keep developing the technology because the profit looked too far away, big mistake. People talk about Europeans developing safety, well I got more news; GM offered air bags in 1974 Oldsmobiles, but again cost was high, demand low, so they dropped them. Pontiac was first to offer collapseable steering columns in 1967, Cadillac offered the first hydraulic brakes and electric starter. Both were major safety features. GM was the first to offer practical automatic transmissions. Both Pontiac and Jeep offered OHC 6 cyl. engines in the 1960's. I could go on, but the truth is Japan copied our tech, stole our patents and engineering and beat us to the punch in a couple of key fields. That along with forcing workers to function as socialist robots, got them where they are today.

12-11-05, 10:47 AM
Yup, I've heard a lot of that stuff too Randy. A
And people say that GM can't innovate :nono:

12-11-05, 03:23 PM
You can bet your last dollar that if the best selling luxury car in America was anything OTHER than a Cadillac or a Lincoln, it WOULD MAKE FRONT PAGE NEWSPAPER PRINT !!!

12-11-05, 06:56 PM
I guess the fact is that parts cost must be cut to deal with very, very high labor cost. This leads to build quality issues. You can't build out design flaws.

However, if you've ever driven a new DeVille you would find it to be a first rate car. Caddy has two problems as far as I can see. The first is image. Either it is "ballers" buying Escalades or old people buying the rest. The second is like Chris Rock said "they can't make an Eldorado that the bumper doesn't fall off" Well, Cadillac was happy with the success of the Escalade but concerned about the market. Rappers and the like are fickle and move on fast and they were worried about sales dying with it. Thankfully that didn't happen.

Which leads me to the second image problem – quality and just the old. The fact is the modern Cadillac is a very well built car. The problem - getting people to just come look. There is the "I need a Bimmer" or the like crowd that just has no idea the value the modern Caddy has to offer. You have to get people to come and see. They haven’t been doing this. It’s not fair because people just wont take the time to come look. If they did, a car like the DTS would impress them. They just do not give it a chance.

If I were going to buy a new high-end car, I’d be right down to the local Caddy dealer looking at a new DTS.

12-11-05, 09:39 PM
I saw a black 04 DTS today with the factory chrome rims..It was badass :cool2: