: Lincoln Mark VIII w/ '03 Cobra engine swap



Blackout
12-09-05, 07:43 AM
A guy over at ummm....."another" forum is doing a 2003 Mustang Cobra engine swap into his 2nd gen Lincoln Mark VIII. I can't wait to see what that thing does once he gets it done.

Katshot
12-09-05, 08:28 AM
Dude!
And that's supposed to interest people here at the Cadillac Forums?! :thepan:

Jesda
12-09-05, 10:54 AM
Whats the gain in power?

Katshot
12-09-05, 11:02 AM
Just a guess, but I'm going to say..A LOT!!!
Actually, the boy will probably know right off the top of his head but I'd bet somewhere around 100hp or so.

Sandy
12-09-05, 12:52 PM
I can't wait to see what that thing does once he gets it done

I can tell you. It devalues the value of his car by about 75%, not having the original engine in the car. If he trades it in and does NOT announce that fact, he is liable for suit, from the dealer. If the dealer does not pick up on it, and sells it w/out knowing such info, he (this guy) is liable for a double law suit, one from the dealer & one from the next buyer. IF he does announce it, his trade in value will be reduced by 70-75% .... THAT's what the thing does......:thehand:

Blackout
12-09-05, 01:00 PM
I can't wait to see what that thing does once he gets it done
I can tell you. It devalues the value of his car by about 75%, not having the original engine in the car. If he trades it in and does NOT announce that fact, he is liable for suit, from the dealer. If the dealer does not pick up on it, and sells it w/out knowing such info, he (this guy) is liable for a double law suit, one from the dealer & one from the next buyer. IF he does announce it, his trade in value will be reduced by 70-75% .... THAT's what the thing does......:thehand:Huh? How many times have people done motor swaps to their cars and it makes the car go up in value. His car will be a one of a kind and people will pay lots of money for it. Hell Katshot didn't do many things to his car and he was getting some offers for his car that are more then he bought it for. And technically they aren't different engines since the Mark VIII has the Cobra motor. It just doesn't have the forged internals and blower but thats besides the point

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-05, 01:21 PM
The 2003 Cobra motor makes 390hp in the Cobra, would the power change at all in the Mark VIII?

Sandy, No offence, but I dont think this man is planning to do a motor swap, and then trade that car in. If he was to sell it, I'm sure he would do it privately.

Katshot
12-09-05, 01:25 PM
I can't wait to see what that thing does once he gets it done
I can tell you. It devalues the value of his car by about 75%, not having the original engine in the car. If he trades it in and does NOT announce that fact, he is liable for suit, from the dealer. If the dealer does not pick up on it, and sells it w/out knowing such info, he (this guy) is liable for a double law suit, one from the dealer & one from the next buyer. IF he does announce it, his trade in value will be reduced by 70-75% .... THAT's what the thing does......:thehand:

I can certainly attest to the fact that Sandy is right about at least one point. The car WILL be worth less overall due to the customization but considering the age of the car and probable current market value, I doubt that would be a killer. Blackout is also right to a degree. SOMETIMES, custom cars ARE more valuable but the problem is that increased value is usually to a much smaller "niche" group of people.
I AM rather puzzled by Sandy's comments about legal liabilities though. I'd like to know more about that.

mccombie_5
12-09-05, 01:28 PM
Would be interesting.

I dont think I could live with that though. I like my cars to be as stock as they can be. If i want bigger rims I get the biggest I can that are factory fit. If I want TVs installed I will buy a car that the factory can fit them too.

I dont think an individual can make a car any better without the factory being involved :yup:

(this is wiith VERY few exceptions, one of which being Stoneys sail panel emblems, that looks great)

Sandy
12-09-05, 01:33 PM
Yes, you are correct...IF he sells it to a young guy after extreme performance. In such a case you are correct. However, some young guy after high(ER) performance does not make the market. Just as a young girl looking for a tennis bracelet that is unique - does not make the jewerly and or pecious stones market. The used car market frowns deeply upon engine swaps, and non-matching #s.

Kat, a seller of a car (thusly being the person who is trading it in) by law, has to devulge to the dealer that it's not the OEM engine. The dealer in turn must make this info known to any retail buyer of this car. IF he wholesales it out to a wholesaler, he does not have to, but it's the right thing to do.

Katshot
12-09-05, 01:52 PM
I understand what you mean but I think that in today's market you'd be kidding yourself if you expected every car that's had a replacement engine, new or used to be documented. I can even see it being a law on the books in some places but I seriously doubt that it's very often inforced. Sounds more like one of those BS laws they like to be able to hit dealers with when they are trying to pile charges on them after a bust. Somehow I doubt that if I buy a car from a dealer or private seller and can prove that the engine was replaced at some point and that the guy I bought it from didn't tell me, that I'd have any luck bringing charges against him for it.

danbuc
12-09-05, 02:07 PM
Hmmm...'03 Cobra engine into a Mark VIII = Bad Ass.

That thing should be quite fast once completed.

Leloz
12-09-05, 02:11 PM
Sandy, I highly doubt that car will be traded in after that amount of money is invested to modify it. Cars like that usually sell well on specialty forums or eBay.

Katshot
12-09-05, 02:48 PM
The BIG question has got to be; is he using the Cobra's manual trans or the MKVIII's auto trans? That will make a huge difference in the performance since that engine HATES automatics. It bogs like a bitch at low rpms.

mccombie_5
12-09-05, 02:50 PM
The BIG question has got to be; is he using the Cobra's manual trans or the MKVIII's auto trans? That will make a huge difference in the performance since that engine HATES automatics. It bogs like a bitch at low rpms.

If I was doing it id use the manual

An engine liek that needs a manual i reckon

illumina
12-09-05, 04:05 PM
I have an '87 Seville with a 4.5 liter swap that I eventually plan to sell, and I would not sell a car that old to any dealer...Hell, the last time I was looking for a car (before I purchased my '91), a dealer offered me $500.00 trade-in for a near-mint condidtion Cadillac (the '87) while I was looking at an '95 Eldorado...

Now if I'm going to sell the car, it will be sold as-is and I plan to get much more than $500.00 for her. Hell, you'd be surprised what kind of market is looking for a Cadillac with a slightly customized engine that has looks to kill. I'll post a picture of the engine later on...Maybe tomorrow.

As for the Mark VIII, I too want to see some pictures of a Lincoln with a blower on it: that thing will look sa-weet!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-05, 04:15 PM
http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=A16406BE-1D0B-4740-9928-2F51D4F58960&term=Lincoln&p=0

Lots of badass Mark VIII's on this video, some with blowers :D

These arent your grandpa's Lincolns!

Katshot
12-09-05, 04:29 PM
There was actually a FACTORY supercharged MKVII. Did you know that?

Katshot
12-09-05, 04:36 PM
Here's a picture of the guy's engines, old and new.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-05, 04:46 PM
There was actually a FACTORY supercharged MKVII. Did you know that?


I've seen that too, theres only a handful of them around though.

Blackout
12-09-05, 05:12 PM
There were only 2 factory supercharged Lincoln Mark VIII's. One I believe is destroyed while the other is owned by Geno Angelino who owns Lincoln Motorsport. In stock trim it run's 12's and has 500 hp I believe. He calls it the Super Mark. The whole engine bay is chrome too so it looks real nice as well. It has a Eaton blower on it

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-05, 05:42 PM
This is kind of off topic, but I would LOVE to have a Mark IV with a supercharged 460. I know they never did it, but boy would that be cool! :cool2:

Katshot
12-09-05, 09:56 PM
There were only 2 factory supercharged Lincoln Mark VIII's. One I believe is destroyed while the other is owned by Geno Angelino who owns Lincoln Motorsport. In stock trim it run's 12's and has 500 hp I believe. He calls it the Super Mark. The whole engine bay is chrome too so it looks real nice as well. It has a Eaton blower on it

Chromed engine bay? Damn, I don't remember that. I only saw it the one time but would think I'd remember that. I tried to find Geno's pictures of it but I was having a hard time. You have more time than me, and probably know right where to look anyways. Post a couple pictures of it for these guys. It's a real sharp looking car guys!

mccombie_5
12-09-05, 10:08 PM
I just really really really really want a Mark V. Can anyone tell me which engine they had, its size, in litres :hide:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-05, 10:50 PM
Well Mccombie, you came to the right man. :D

The Standard Engine in the Mark V was the 400cid 6.6 liter V8.
In 1977 it had 179hp @4000 rpm and 329 lb/ft @1600 rpm.
In 1978 it was 166hp @3800 rpm and 319lb/ft @1900 rpm.
In 1979 it was 159hp @3400rpm and 315lb/ft @ 1800rpm.

The Optional motor in 1977 & 78 was the 460cid 7.5L V8.
1977 it was 208hp @ 4000 rpm, and 356 lb/ft @ 2000rpm.
1978 it was 210hp @ 4200 rpm, and 357 lb/ft @ 2200 rpm.
1979 it was discontinued, the only motor was the 400cid.

Stock with the 460, these would run about a mid 17 in the quarter mile. Not bad, all things considered. With the 400 V8, It would probably run a 18 or so. 159hp is way lacking when pushing 4600lbs of chrome, steel and leather.

JC316
12-09-05, 10:59 PM
I have seen it, I am a member of that particular forum. Yes, it is going to be badass. There is also a guy that is puting a Navigator motor in a Mark. Hwystar has a juiced Mark that runs 12 seconds 1/4's, there are couple of blowers on there, and a guy is putting a twin turbo on his. I am putting the enitre engine, transmission, and front end out of a Mark VIII in a 51 Cadillac Fleetwood.

Kev
12-10-05, 12:37 AM
......I am putting the enitre engine, transmission, and front end out of a Mark VIII in a 51 Cadillac Fleetwood.SACRILEGE!! :canttalk:
:tisk: :thehand: :nono::banghead::fan::bang2::getaway:

j/k

JC316
12-10-05, 01:22 AM
280HP 290ftlbs of torque :D. I would have used the N*, but the front wheel drive really cramped my style. If you think the motor is sacralige, you are going to love the color. Pink, pearl, flake, tricoat with rose graphics.

mccombie_5
12-10-05, 06:30 AM
Well Mccombie, you came to the right man. :D

The Standard Engine in the Mark V was the 400cid 6.6 liter V8.
In 1977 it had 179hp @4000 rpm and 329 lb/ft @1600 rpm.
In 1978 it was 166hp @3800 rpm and 319lb/ft @1900 rpm.
In 1979 it was 159hp @3400rpm and 315lb/ft @ 1800rpm.

The Optional motor in 1977 & 78 was the 460cid 7.5L V8.
1977 it was 208hp @ 4000 rpm, and 356 lb/ft @ 2000rpm.
1978 it was 210hp @ 4200 rpm, and 357 lb/ft @ 2200 rpm.
1979 it was discontinued, the only motor was the 400cid.

Stock with the 460, these would run about a mid 17 in the quarter mile. Not bad, all things considered. With the 400 V8, It would probably run a 18 or so. 159hp is way lacking when pushing 4600lbs of chrome, steel and leather.

Now I really want one!

Its Alanis Morissette I tell you! She made me want it! Now I'm off to browse some American car magazines!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-05, 10:19 AM
I've sat in one (Mark V) at the junkyard. I remember the seats were very plush and very wide, and that hood seemed a mile long, the doors were very heavy and long. I don't remember the backseat being very roomy, the legroom was quite small considering the size of the car, but it was comfortable.

mccombie_5
12-10-05, 01:57 PM
I've sat in one (Mark V) at the junkyard. I remember the seats were very plush and very wide, and that hood seemed a mile long, the doors were very heavy and long. I don't remember the backseat being very roomy, the legroom was quite small considering the size of the car, but it was comfortable.

I really do want one, that is the best looking Mark IMO. I do like the 7s and the 8s more, but I like those because of certain aspects of the styling (I like the fake wheel on the 7, and the dashboard and headlamps on the 8). I didnt get to look in any magazines, but I will be, depending on the price, Id love to have one of those. Rear legroom isnt at all a factor for me. Claire and I intend to tour Europe for six weeks next year, and if I can find one I would buy it solely for that. I have always liked the car in the music video, it always looked very luxurious to me, and something I would drive, the Opera windows also strike a cord with me, im not sure why, i just like them.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-05, 02:20 PM
It is an extremely classy and majectic car. But I like the Mark IV more because of the roofline. On the Mark V, the C pillar slants back. On the Mark IV, its more straight and formal.
1975 Mark IV:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/2173000-2173999/2173359_2_full.jpg
1978 Mark V:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/519000-519999/519039_35_full.jpg


But I do like the taillights on the Mark V's more than the 74-76 Mark IV, and I like the Mark V's fender louvres.
And I hear the Mark V's handle better, and are "easier" to drive.
The Mark V's have a cleaner appearance, but they dont embody the detroit excess like the Mark IV's do, well nothing really comes close to the Mark IV for sheer excess and opulence.

mccombie_5
12-10-05, 02:25 PM
Yeah, the reason I like the V is because of the roofline, the IV looks like a low slung coupe, and the V more of a two door sedan.

I liek them both they look similar, but Id still take the V

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-05, 02:33 PM
The Mark V looks sportier, but thats not hard to do when compared to the IV.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-05, 02:49 PM
I would love to buy an all white Mark IV and go driving around aimlessly while listening to Led Zeppelin and Rolling Stones albums from the '70s.

Its funny how we're talking about Mark V's on two different threads :)

mccombie_5
12-10-05, 03:00 PM
Yeah, gotta listen to the music of the time

MrEr1c
12-11-05, 12:24 PM
i think most of you guys are missing the point of what this person is doing.

hes not doing a motor swap to make big bucks on the trade-in value.

hes doing it for the extra power that is possible. my bet is he doesn't care what the value of his car is/will be.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-11-05, 12:34 PM
I knew that, and thats why it is cool:)

I wonder what that'll run, 12's-13's?

JC316
12-11-05, 04:03 PM
It will probably run low 13's. If he decides to put other mods in it, it could very well go into the 12's. I don't see why you think it would lower the value. It is the same motor just a newer, more powerfull version. Besides the numbers don't have to match on a Ford if you are going by collector car status. I don't think he would even try trading it in, he would just sell it to someone on the forum.

Katshot
12-11-05, 05:42 PM
My guess:
If he uses the automatic - high 13's to low 14's.
If he uses the manual - low 13's

MrEr1c
12-11-05, 07:11 PM
how much do those cars weigh?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-11-05, 07:41 PM
3700-3800 lbs

DBA-One
12-11-05, 08:01 PM
I'd love to see pictures of a factory 4.6 DOHC powered VIII because I've never heard of such a thing. Besides, throwing a Cobra motor in a VIII is not the same as just tossing a blower on. The 03-04 Cobra motor is a very, very different beast compared to the normal DOHC 4.6. (Iused to be a Mustang guy) It sounds like this guy is building a beast. Sounds cool as hell to me.

JC316
12-12-05, 12:56 AM
All Mark VIII's have a 280 HP 4.6L DOHC motor, except for the LSC which get 290HP. The Cobras got the same motor later on, I am not sure what the specs are for the 03 motor.

Blackout
12-12-05, 07:37 AM
All Mark VIII's have a 280 HP 4.6L DOHC motor, except for the LSC which get 290HP. The Cobras got the same motor later on, I am not sure what the specs are for the 03 motor.Mark VIII was the first car in the Ford lineup to have the 4.6 V8. The Mustang didn't get it until 1996 when they put it in the Cobra. the LSC gets its 290 hp because it has true dual exhaust on it while the non-LSC is a fake dual exhaust. The LSC also gets the aromatic (sp?) leather seats and a different rear end to that of the non-LSC. And as for pictures of the super Mark's engine bay, ask and you shall recieve.

http://www.lincolnmotorsport.com/gallery/MarkVIII/images/Motor_jpg.jpg
http://www.lincolnmotorsport.com/gallery/MarkVIII/images/IntakeTB_jpg.jpg
http://www.lincolnmotorsport.com/gallery/MarkVIII/images/tascanohood_jpg.jpg

Katshot
12-12-05, 09:51 AM
I didn't think it had a chromed engine compartment.
How hot is that car guys? How about a couple pictures of the car with the hood on ( I love the factory hood scoops!).

Blackout
12-12-05, 10:29 AM
http://www.lincolnmotorsport.com/gallery/MarkVIII/images/supermark1_jpg.jpg
http://www.lincolnmotorsport.com/gallery/MarkVIII/images/y2ktag10_jpg.jpg
http://www.lincolnmotorsport.com/gallery/MarkVIII/images/SCBELTWRAP_jpg.jpg

Opps......how did that get in there? :thumbsup:

http://www.lincolnmotorsport.com/gallery/MarkVIII/images/pondecal_jpg.jpg

DBA-One
12-12-05, 10:32 AM
I do not believe that is factory

DBA-One
12-12-05, 10:34 AM
It the blower from the Ford Racing catalog?

Katshot
12-12-05, 10:40 AM
It IS factory but it IS NOT a "production" car. There were supposedly two cars built as prototypes. One is thought to have been destroyed and this is the only known existing "factory" supercharged MKVIII. It's a beautiful car in person, and from what I've seen, DAMN FAST too!

Blackout
12-12-05, 11:00 AM
I do not believe that is factoryWell it ummmm.........is

DBA-One
12-12-05, 12:02 PM
Well, if it is one of two that would be different. I was getting the impression that there were loads of them rolling around.

Katshot
12-12-05, 12:30 PM
Nope. Like I said, "factory" but not "production". Matter of fact, many parts on this car are one of a kind including the electronics. From what I recall, the owner had a good deal of trouble just getting the car to start originally. Since there is no service documentation on this car and it's systems, he was forced to go back to Ford engineers for info. I guess that's the down-side of having a one of a kind car. It's a beautiful car though.

DBA-One
12-12-05, 12:41 PM
Oh yeah, I'd love to have the car. It's remarkable that ford even released it to the wild. I've read of one other such car. It was a Cobra R prototype. They sold it so someone who uses it as a race car. Trouble is the owner can only sell it back to Ford and then it will be destroyed.