: Anyone own or have experience with a Glock?



Spyder
12-08-05, 08:16 PM
Cause I can't get the damned slide off of this one. It's a 17, that I'm thinking about buying from a friend, cause he's hurting for money and doesn't need it, and the price is right, but I can't get the damn thing apart! I found the online manual, it says to pull the slide back about 3mm, and pull the slide lock, which I assume is the little button just forward and above the trigger, and that the slide should go forward and up to come apart, just like any other pistol in the world. This one doesn't seem to want to go. It wants to try, but then it'll click and go back into place and the slide lock won't disengage. Getting angry. :D

Spyder
12-08-05, 08:33 PM
I don't like this. You have to pull the trigger before pulling back the slide and pulling down the slide release? Doesn't work for me. I don't think I'm going to keep it.

Caddy Man
12-08-05, 09:26 PM
PM TripleOught

He seems pretty knowledgable about firearms.

johndfw
12-08-05, 09:32 PM
Is the clip out?

Spyder
12-08-05, 09:44 PM
Yea, you just had to have pulled the trigger before you pull the slide back, which, by the way, I don't feel comfortable doing it. I think that's going to be the defining point in whether I buy it or not. I just don't like the idea of it. I know, I know...glocks are reliable as hell and great and everyone loves them, but I've never been a fan, and this just kind of did it for me.

ben72227
12-08-05, 11:34 PM
PM Rolex. Glocks aren't my thing either; I'd rather have a M1911 or a HK USP...

Rolex
12-09-05, 08:59 PM
Yea, you just had to have pulled the trigger before you pull the slide back, which, by the way, I don't feel comfortable doing it. I think that's going to be the defining point in whether I buy it or not. I just don't like the idea of it. I know, I know...glocks are reliable as hell and great and everyone loves them, but I've never been a fan, and this just kind of did it for me.

Never had a problem with my Glocks, or dry firing them before field stripping. Any firearm I handle, I check.....and double check, then check again that it is unloaded (whether I pull the trigger or not). If you don't feel comfortable pulling the trigger on an unloaded gun I'd say you need more experience with firearms in general. That's JMHO....please don't take offense to that. The people who confess to being uncomfortable with Glocks are generally suffering from a lack of experience with them. They're 100% safe.....unless, of course, they're in a cop's hands. :canttalk: :lildevil: :D

There are other polymer frame sidearms that reguire pulling the trigger before removing the slide. Of course their designs are basically copies of the Glock design. If you bought it and need any help or advice, I'll be happy to try to help. :D

Rolex
12-09-05, 09:03 PM
Is the clip out?

Since when do Glocks use clips?
Mine take magazines. :lildevil: ;)

Elvis
12-09-05, 09:12 PM
If you don't feel comfortable pulling the trigger on an unloaded gun I'd say you need more experience with firearms in general. That's JMHO....please don't take offense to that. The people who confess to being uncomfortable with Glocks are generally suffering from a lack of experience with them.

The man knows his firearms.

ben72227
12-09-05, 09:47 PM
I'm uncomfortable with them because they have no external safety, which means its easy to accidentally fire the gun, whether it be you drawing it/putt ing it back into your holster, or say if a little kid gets a hold of it and decides to play with it.

Also, let's not forget that Glock pistols are famous for the kB! phenomenom, since they have unsupported chambers. For those who don't know, that's when a bullet misfires in a Glock and explodes (ka-BOOM!) sending shrapnel everywhere, including towards the shooter. Since the guns are made out of plastic, they are much more susceptible to this than any other gun out there.

They're reliable and rugged, and they're a great semi-auto. But they serve no real purpose except to be a gangsta pistol since they're so easy to just pick up and fire. You don't see rappers and thugs with 1911s or even S&W Sigmas; they all seem to have black glocks with the 17-round magazines. Who needs that large of a magazine in a pistol unless you're "getting your gun off.":rolleyes:

Dead Sled
12-09-05, 10:14 PM
tupperware

ben72227
12-09-05, 10:47 PM
Exactly. If you want a pistol, get a real pistol, not some ***** 9mm...

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistols/PX9105MLLarge.jpg

Rolex
12-10-05, 12:42 AM
I'm uncomfortable with them because they have no external safety, which means its easy to accidentally fire the gun, whether it be you drawing it/putt ing it back into your holster, or say if a little kid gets a hold of it and decides to play with it.


Well Ben where to start? While Glock pistols do not have a safety catch or switch, they do have 3 safeties, which is equal to the number of safeties on the Springfield 1911 pictured above. And one of those safeties IS external.

http://www.glock.com/_safe_action_.htm (http://www.glock.com/_safe_action_.htm)

I suppose you'd consider the average revolver dangerous because it also lacks a safety selector switch? People properly trained will keep their finger off the trigger of a firearm until they're ready to fire to avoid negligent discharge. People who draw their sidearm with their finger resting on its trigger are guilty of negligent discharge.....not accidental.

And keeping firearms out of the hands of children is just part of being a responsible gun owner IMO. Unless I'm toting, mine are securely locked in a 1000 lb safe.

And for the love of God.....why do you insist on comparing the 1911 to a Glock? Apples to oranges man!!!

Please see my comment below from a previous post:



The people who confess to being uncomfortable with Glocks are generally suffering from a lack of experience with them. They're 100% safe.....unless, of course, they're in a cop's hands




Also, let's not forget that Glock pistols are famous for the kB! phenomenom, since they have unsupported chambers. For those who don't know, that's when a bullet misfires in a Glock and explodes (ka-BOOM!) sending shrapnel everywhere, including towards the shooter. Since the guns are made out of plastic, they are much more susceptible to this than any other gun out there.

This is full of ignorance. "Some guy"......."somewhere," fired a squib round in a 40 cal Glock and failed to recognize it. He tried to fire another round after the squib, and his pistol exploded. This can happen to any firearm....not just pistols, and not just Glocks. And "another guy" fired hot reloaded lead ammo that was far out of spec through a Glock, and his firearm exploded in his face. Since "these guys" posted their pics of a busted Glock, they have been "famous" for going kaboom.....according to 1911 fans and owners only. :helpless:

Of course, the FBI documented 50,000 rounds fired through Glock service pistols without a single part failure. I'm sure that holds no weight with you though.




Since the guns are made out of plastic, they are much more susceptible to this than any other gun out there.

Glocks are made from polymer and steel. The polymer parts contain some steel to give them extra strength and rigidity. The slide and barrel are made from steel. If you shoot weak cased, +P, hot reloaded ammo out of a firearm you assume certain risks.....even with all steel guns.



They're reliable and rugged, and they're a great semi-auto. But they serve no real purpose except to be a gangsta pistol since they're so easy to just pick up and fire. You don't see rappers and thugs with 1911s or even S&W Sigmas; they all seem to have black glocks with the 17-round magazines. Who needs that large of a magazine in a pistol unless you're "getting your gun off.":rolleyes:

The reason law enforcement agencies have almost totally devoted their sidearm needs to Glock is because they are reliable, light weight, reasonably accurate, and simple to operate (all criteria of a good battle-ready firearm). Apparently gangstas have the same exacting standards. ;) :D





They're reliable and rugged, and they're a great semi-auto.

This is the closest you came to sounding like you've ever actually handled or fired a Glock. My only criticism is that they are a little rough to shoot several hundred rounds through. But then, so are almost all of the other polymer framed postols.

Rolex
12-10-05, 12:54 AM
Read on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLOCK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLOCK)

Spyder
12-10-05, 04:25 AM
I'm a huge fan of my Sig 226. Fell in love with it the minute I picked it up. It just felt "right" and I bought it and havn't looked back. I was down to a Glock 17 and the Sig 226 as my final two choices, and after shooting them both at the range, I had to have a Sig. I haven't fired the Glock enough to have an opinion yet, but I'll get back to ya after Wednesday when myself and a couple of CJ majors are heading to the range again...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-05, 09:24 AM
I want a Desert Eagle .50
I saw it in a movie and it looked badass.
Or a .44 magnum is always good too :cool2:

Rolex
12-10-05, 10:30 AM
I'm a huge fan of my Sig 226. Fell in love with it the minute I picked it up. It just felt "right" and I bought it and havn't looked back. I was down to a Glock 17 and the Sig 226 as my final two choices, and after shooting them both at the range, I had to have a Sig. I haven't fired the Glock enough to have an opinion yet, but I'll get back to ya after Wednesday when myself and a couple of CJ majors are heading to the range again...

I'm also a Sig Sauer fan and, the 226 is a great sidearm. I wouldn't mind having the 229 in 40 caliber. It may even end up in my collection after the first of the year. A good friend of mine in Little Rock carries the 229 40 caliber and it shoots like a dream.


Hey I~LUV~Caddys8792 if you like DE then you should do a search. There was a firearms discussion involving DE just a few months back in current issues forum IIRC. I've never shot the 50 but I've heard their recoil is abusive. The 50 is an expensive round making it impractible for shooting much at the range, and it's far too powerful for personal or home defense. I have always followed that with admitting it has a definate cool factor found in no other pistol. :D

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-05, 10:46 AM
Yeah the DE50 is too much gun for me, the recoil would snap my wrists. And it's too powerful for personal/home/cadillac defence. Who makes that gun?

Who uses it mainly? The Mafia?

Rolex
12-10-05, 11:20 AM
Yeah the DE50 is too much gun for me, the recoil would snap my wrists. And it's too powerful for personal/home/cadillac defence. Who makes that gun?

Who uses it mainly? The Mafia?

The gun is owned by Magnum Research. It's an American company, but the firearms are actually manufactured in Israel by IMI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Industries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Industries)

http://www.magnumresearch.com/ (http://www.magnumresearch.com/)

I don't actually know of anyone who owns a DE in magnum caliber. They are said to be primarily target pistols. They are always really popular with the hollywood movie makers because of their cool factor.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-05, 11:25 AM
I cant view that now, the service at my work has blocked just about everything possible. All I can do is sit on here, autotrader, and auto manufacturers sites. I can't even go on ebay anymore!

Damn You websense!

Spyder
12-10-05, 01:34 PM
I havn't shot a DE, but I a buddy of mine has an Automag V in the same .50 AE caliber. Recoil is impressive, but the automag is a LOT lighter than the DE. His brother has a DE and says that it is shootable for a bit, at least much more than the Automag. The Automag IV that he has is great. It's the .45 Win Mag, and its definately shootable. I agree, they're useless except for the great fun of pulling up to the range and popping off a few rounds just to make heads turn, which is why its probably going to be one of my next purchases! :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-05, 01:51 PM
How much are they?

ben72227
12-10-05, 02:33 PM
Rolex, you may not like my post, but everything in it WAS TRUE:thumbsup:
And I compared the 1911 to the Glock because they're both semi-auto pistols with magazines:thumbsup:

Glocks are made out of plastic Rolex. Polymer is a type of PLASTIC. Look it up if you won't believe me.:rolleyes:

And the Kb! isn't some isolated incident. It's well documented that glocks chambered in larger calibers (40, 45, and 10mm) have this happen much more than other pistols chambered in the same ammo. (like a 1911, a USP, Sig, etc.) Here's the info for ya':
http://greent.com/40Page/general/kb.htm
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html#cause
Since they're made out of plastic, they just crack under pressure from any type of case failure, usually causing injury to the shooter from flying debris. They KNOW it too, but have refused to support their chambers because it would cost too much (which is why Glocks are so cheap compared to other pistols, like Sig)

Rolex
12-10-05, 04:58 PM
Rolex, you may not like my post, but everything in it WAS TRUE:thumbsup:
And I compared the 1911 to the Glock because they're both semi-auto pistols with magazines:thumbsup:

Glocks are made out of plastic Rolex. Polymer is a type of PLASTIC. Look it up if you won't believe me.:rolleyes:

And the Kb! isn't some isolated incident. It's well documented that glocks chambered in larger calibers (40, 45, and 10mm) have this happen much more than other pistols chambered in the same ammo. (like a 1911, a USP, Sig, etc.) Here's the info for ya':
http://greent.com/40Page/general/kb.htm
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html#cause
Since they're made out of plastic, they just crack under pressure from any type of case failure, usually causing injury to the shooter from flying debris. They KNOW it too, but have refused to support their chambers because it would cost too much (which is why Glocks are so cheap compared to other pistols, like Sig)

I'll read the links later when I have more time. I always appreciate new info. I have only seen case failures while using reloaded ammunition. I know thats anecdotal experience, but I believe its very rare for shelf ammunition to fail nowdays.....your experience may vary. Case failure usually occurs when rounds are loaded with too much powder, or when they're over used >> reloaded too many times. Without reading your links I'll agree 100% that Glocks, or any firearm with a polymer lower, are not as strong/sturdy as all steel guns. Even all steel firearms (rifles or pistols) can, and usually will, kB when a case failure occurs. I've seen this happen with AR 15s, 1911, and yes.....Glocks. :D

I personally only fire reloaded ammo in my AR 15s, and avoid it in all of my handguns. And if I had to choose one battle pistol I would probably rather have all steel. :canttalk:

ben72227
12-10-05, 05:19 PM
Now, I mean, its not like every Glock goes Kb!, and it only happens on like 1 out of every 50,000 glocks, but STILL, when compared to say, a steel pistol, which happens only like 1 out of 500,000...It's not a big thing, but it IS a thing that should be considered...I've just found Glocks to be the "me too" gun because every one wants one, but 9mm pistols have never done much for me. 40S&W is almost too wimpy, but its a good police round, and easier for women to fire i suppose...I guess police don't want to shoot to kill, but rather shoot to wound...

Me, on the other hand, if I EVER have to point my weapon at a fellow human being, I want a one shot kill, and 45 is the best man-stopper there is (other than some hand cannon, which is impractical (like a DE:duck: ).

Rolex
12-10-05, 10:26 PM
40S&W is almost too wimpy, but its a good police round, and easier for women to fire i suppose...I guess police don't want to shoot to kill, but rather shoot to wound...

Me, on the other hand, if I EVER have to point my weapon at a fellow human being, I want a one shot kill, and 45 is the best man-stopper there is (other than some hand cannon, which is impractical (like a DE:duck: ).

I've said before that 45 ACP along with 357 magnum are two of the very best defense calibers on the market. The 45 ACP has been tested for many years and on many battle grounds. The FBI tested all popular calibers and all available personal defense and law enforcement ammo not too many years ago with balistic gelatin. The found with the right ammo choice they could achieve 97% "one-shot-stop" power with the 45 ACP, 40 S&W, and the 357 magnum. The adopted the 40 S&W because of its superior stopping power, and the ability to carry high capacity magazines comfortably (which was more difficult to do the 45 ACP and 357).

So when you say the 40 S&W is too wimpy that is factually unfounded. Generally the 45 ACP defense rounds are 70-90 grains heavier than 40 SW rounds, and when fired at velocities only slightly slower than the 40 SW they're an effective tool. Law enforcement officers are not trained to wound people with whatever caliber they carry. They are trained to aim for center mass, or the area of the body that contains the vital organs. Regardless of caliber choice, when the average man is hit center mass the result is most often a fatal wound.

Here's some real world data on caliber choice you might enjoy reading. The author is an old cop. He recognizes the superior stopping power of both the 45 and 40, but admits to carrying a 9mm because it was easier for him to handle and achieve accurate shots with. And in the "real world" being able to hit what you're aiming at is the key to survival.

http://www.neiassociates.org/caliber.htm (http://www.neiassociates.org/caliber.htm)

If I'm given the choice of caliber to walk into a gun fight with, I'll take the 5.56 x 45 over a handgun caliber any day. :D

Rolex
12-10-05, 10:37 PM
BEN thanks for the links. The first link is pretty straight forward but holds limited info. The second link is pretty well rounded and full of good info. And I found this in that link:

Do kB!s occur in other guns or just in Glocks?
kB!s do, of course, occur in other guns, but no one appears to be keeping accurate statistics for most of them. Many 1911-style handguns have partially unsupported case mouths, and numerous case separations have occurred in these guns. Early .38 Super barrels were particularly susceptible, and the critical observer may have noticed the predilection among USPSA .38 Super competitors for full beards in an attempt to cloak the vestiages of what came to be known as "super face."

Respected firearms author Frank James (http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/kb-notes.html), in 1994, documented a number of kB!s in HK USP .40 pistols, which do have fully supported chambers. (But see this! (http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/hk-kb.html))

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/hk-kb.html (http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/hk-kb.html)

What is the relationship between reloads and kB!s?
Most kB!s occur with commercially remanufactured or personally reloaded ammunition.

Successive re-sizing and firing of a case result in eventual weakening of the brass, increasing the probability of case failure. The partially unsupported chamber in the Glock exacerbates this problem.

"Hard crimping" or overseating of bullets, particularly in the .40 S&W, can cause dramatic increases in pressure almost to the same degree as a propellant overcharge. [See Annotation #3 (http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/kb-notes.html#a3)] Either alone or in combination with a weakened case, these factors can result in a kB!

What can I do to prevent a kB!?


Shoot only new factory ammunition out of your Glock. This is what Glock, Inc. recommends, as do several members of Glock-L. Shooting reloads voids your factory warranty.

As I said earlier I only shoot reloads through my ARs, not in my handguns. Thanks for the links. :D

ben72227
12-10-05, 11:05 PM
You're welcome:sneaky:
BTY, If I went into a gunfight, I'd want one of these:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d0/Fn_fiveseven.gif
The FN Five-seveN, the gun the cops are all scared of...with it's 5.7 x 28 armor-piercing rounds, you stop a man in no time. Shame they aren't hollow-points too, but I guess military people don't want them...:helpless:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-05, 11:53 PM
The Desert Eagle is $1,049!!!! Is that extremely expensive?

Spyder
12-11-05, 07:06 AM
DE's run between a grand and fifteen hundred, yea, that's about right.

I don't know how effective a hollow point would be as an armor piercing round?

Rolex, thanks for the neiassociates link...I will most definately read that tomorrow, when I'm not exhausted from a night of work. :)

ben72227
12-11-05, 12:29 PM
Well, hollow points expand and fragment upon impact, normal bullets just go through you in a straight line... HPs are banned by the geneva convention, etc. and most modern militaries use FMJs because they'd rather injury a troop than kill them (with the reasoning that if you injure a troop, that takes away two more enemies from the battlefield that would have to carry him away.):tisk:

Rolex
12-11-05, 01:00 PM
Rolex, thanks for the neiassociates link...I will most definately read that tomorrow, when I'm not exhausted from a night of work. :)

It's actually a short and good read about handgun calibers. This handgun data doesn't come from testing rounds into ballistic gelatin like the FBI's tests. Instead it comes from real world data collected from police shootings across the US. This is the real deal on handgun calibers and ammunition selection.

The reason I use Federal Hydra Shock 155 grain in my 40 S&W CCW sidearms is this data and the FBI's data has it at the very top of their list for stopping power.

DBA-One
12-12-05, 11:04 AM
I used to own a 17. Repacks will jam it so avoid those.

Rolex
12-13-05, 05:21 PM
Here's a link to check out to see how well Glocks hold up to abuse. Beware dial up people.....lots of pics!!!

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=13658 (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=13658)

RobertCTS
12-14-05, 01:51 PM
Exactly. If you want a pistol, get a real pistol, not some ***** 9mm...

Did you know most assassins prefer a 22mm long rifle? The aim is for the victims head. The 22 pentatrates the skull but doesn't have the force for the exit so it rattles around in the skull scrambling your brains. Dirty Harry has us thinking bigger is better.

I have two 9mms, a S&W and a Beretta. Don't like Glocks because they are to heavy.

ben72227
12-14-05, 05:24 PM
I meant for close quarters combat. 9mm is wimpy, 45 is perfect, and .40S&W is...acceptable...

of course the .22 is perfect for assasinations, I have one myself...but I was talking about CQCB...

LittleB
12-14-05, 05:27 PM
perfect for assasinations, I have one myself...
assasinations? :hide: :getaway:
:p

Kev
12-14-05, 05:56 PM
No more use of the 'A' word please or I'll close the thread.
Let's keep the discussions on legal topics.

RobertCTS
12-14-05, 07:10 PM
Seen the "Terminator" with Gov. Arnold? The street sweeper drum shotgun, used in Iraq today.

http://usera.imagecave.com/BobsWork/sweepers.jpg

DopeStar 156
12-14-05, 09:03 PM
I shot a really nice .45 that was very heavily polished to a mirror finish in a gun shop in Nevada. That was a cool looking gun. I want one of those but then again I prolly shouldn't have a gon, knowing me I'll prolly shoot myself in the leg or something playing with it....

Spyder
12-17-05, 02:39 AM
So I put about a hundred rounds through the glock and I hate it. I'm sticking with my Sig 226, its a far superior weapon, in my opinion. The Glock was very accurate and, as much as a hundred rounds can tell you, reliable...it just didn't feel "right" at all. Maybe I've been treated too good growing up on Sigs, but I don't like it and I've already got someone lined up to buy it from me...

RobertCTS
12-17-05, 08:06 AM
My choice is the Italian Beretta 9mm. Small and light.

http://usera.imagecave.com/BobsWork/ber_85f.jpg

Rolex
12-17-05, 01:34 PM
So I put about a hundred rounds through the glock and I hate it. I'm sticking with my Sig 226, its a far superior weapon, in my opinion. The Glock was very accurate and, as much as a hundred rounds can tell you, reliable...it just didn't feel "right" at all. Maybe I've been treated too good growing up on Sigs, but I don't like it and I've already got someone lined up to buy it from me...

You have to shoot whatever you're comfortable with. Sounds like you made the right choice. It took me several range trips to become comfortable with my first Glock after carrying a S&W for 8 years. Even now I openly admit Glocks aren't the most fun to shoot several hundred rounds through.

Rolex
12-17-05, 01:36 PM
My choice is the Italian Beretta 9mm. Small and light.

You and the US Army. My old college roomate had a Beretta 9mm that shot like a dream. I considered buying one at one point, but it was a little large for concealed carry.

RobertCTS
12-17-05, 03:30 PM
You and the US Army. My old college roomate had a Beretta 9mm that shot like a dream. I considered buying one at one point, but it was a little large for concealed carry.

Beretta makes several compact 9mm pistols, the smallest being the Tomcat.
It easily fits in a jacket pocket. Beretta has a hellva history in firearms dating back to the 1500s.