: This Christmas, try not to buy anything made in China



Elvis
11-28-05, 12:18 AM
We're discussing this topic on another forum I visit. It's going to be extremely difficult.

We started off talking about how WalMart used to advertise that all of their products were "Made in the USA." Now it's all Chinese and cheap. The Waltons are making more money, and the American worker gets forced out of a job.

Maybe we can postpone the inevitable if we get in the habit of watching for that "Made in China" sticker and avoiding it.

When I was a kid, if we saw a "Made in Japan" sticker, we knew that whatever it was would turn out to be crap. Then transistor radios came along. I bought one at a gas station for $3.15 in 1974. It lasted twelve years.

I've been guilty of buying four Japanese cars, several Japanese televisions and computers. This China thing is scary. They could (and probably will) bury us.

Caddy Man
11-28-05, 12:40 AM
most things made in china are crap anyways, and the things that are made in japan, TVs, Radios, computers, well we dont have too much choice there.

Sandy
11-28-05, 12:48 AM
If ya wanna have "not much choice" in everything else, keep buying stuff from China & Japan !
My T.V.s are RCA, cars American, and I try. But, clothing? Impossible, likewise time pieces, Radios, CD players, etc, etc. I am very proud to say that no member of my immediate or extended family or those who have passed away ever bought a foreign car. Makes me feel very good to continue the tradition.

Spyder
11-28-05, 12:53 AM
I've owned a few foreign cars, but they were OLD ones...84 hondas and a 73 porsche...anything that I put any money into was always detroit iron...the rest, I try to buy american, but as Sandy said, its quite difficult, if not impossible, with some of the things that we consider necessities nowadays.

ben72227
11-28-05, 12:55 AM
I would buy American, but lets face it...some American things just aren't as good as their Japanese counterparts

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-28-05, 01:16 AM
True, and many japanese cars are built in America. Toyota trucks and Hondas come to mind. :)

TomDeville
11-28-05, 01:26 AM
Not buying a Chinese made item this
Christmas is a veritable impossibility,
as repugnant as that harsh reality is.

China will bury us; but, not in our lifetime.

I would cut a nut off, with a cheap ass knife
made in China, before buying a Japanese car.

Walmart was great when the products
were 'All American'; now it is 'All Shit'.

Best Regards,

TomDeville:cool2:

Caddy Man
11-28-05, 03:01 AM
Concerning cars, we cannot sit here and say ''buy american, dont buy japanese.'' Cars are such a global market now, so right now peopel are saying dont buy honda, toyota or mazda, so what about ALL THOSE AMERICAN FACILITIES that build Honda, Toyota and Mazda cars here in the United states?? Just forget about those AMERICAN workers?? Oh what about the Mercedes and BMW plant we have here(ML and X5 plants)??? We cannot sit there and be so picky in this day and age because things have become so global.

I am only sick of the argument to ''buy american'' where it is made to make us feel bad for not supporting our own economy. I know I am young, but I know there was a time when ''Made in teh USA'' stood for a good quailty product. This is not the case anymore. Peopel dont buy foriegn products because we hate our own economy, but because overall forign products (assembled in Japan) provide good quailty and competative pricing. In our family we will contiue to buy Sony and Toshiba TVs, why?? Because we work hard for our money, and we want our products to go far. Instead of makign people feel bad so they buy american, they should increase American quaility of products so people will WANT TO buy american on thier own.

Jesda
11-28-05, 04:49 AM
GM says its global sales will soon exceed its US sales. Its about half-half right now.

hardrockcamaro@mac.c
11-28-05, 06:09 AM
I'd imagine it will be very difficult.
It certainly is in the UK.
My best buddy's dad owns a company that makes clothing for the large chain clothes stores. It's mostly made in Romania. Simple items like T-shirts are imported into the UK fromp the far East, they then put them on a truck along with labels, clear bags, ink etc, and drive the whole lot to Romania where they sew on the labels, put them in bags and maybe print a design onto them. In the meantime the truck picks up the latest batch and drives back.
It's actually cheaper to drive the stuff to Romania to have the label sewn on and drive it back than it is to do it over here. Go figure.


I notice when I buy products from the US by mail order that your packaging often says Made in America, or Assembled in America with parts from many countries. That kind of thing. I don't think they even bother with that over here, which is sad.

It's a real conflict, everyone wants their money to go further, to have more "things". They also want more pay and benefits.
One day when all the manufacturing is doen abroad we're gonna be in real s***.

VinnyT
11-28-05, 07:37 AM
It is almost impossible to buy All-American. My brother, who is a staunch Harley-Davidson nut has told me that carb parts are made in Japan to keep costs down. :rolleyes:

Elvis
11-28-05, 11:31 AM
It IS impossible to buy ALL AMERICAN.

But is it impossible to buy NO CHINESE?

Let's not worry about the Japanese, I brought them up as an example because China is trying to follow their example.

Japan and South Korea are our friends. China is probably not.

HotRodSaint
11-28-05, 11:49 AM
But is it impossible to buy NO CHINESE?

I know. I'll eat Thai food this week instead of Chinese.

But Thai probably includes ingredients that are shipped from mainland China too.

Hmmm... :hmm:

RobertCTS
11-28-05, 12:18 PM
I wave the American flag. Served my country in the US Navy. At times it's impossible to buy American products because we were forced out of the market by cheap labor from China, Japan, India, Malaysia , Mexico etc, etc.
Sometimes the imported products are better. If it's electronics or a computer with an American name on it like "DELL" most of the parts or even the assembly is imported.
So what do I do? At times I have to compromise and buy the imported product. But if good "Stuff" is available here from the USA, I buy American.
I have a manufacturing business. The building is constructed with American materials and American labor. The machines are all American. My labor force is American. The same applies to my home. I own a 2004 CTS and a 1972 Corvette. USA makes wonderful cars and so do the Germans and the Japanese but my loyalty is first to the USA. No imports in my garage even if they are assembled here in the United States. I buy local, I buy Ohio and I buy USA. Every time you buy an import you strengthen their economy

mccombie_5
11-28-05, 12:41 PM
People get themselves in such a tizzy about this.

You want good quality goods that are cheap? The consumer forced things to be built elsewhere, nobody else, they want cheap prices, they will more often than not buy something for its price over where it was made, and the cheaper items are not home grown.

I have little choice but to buy foreign, and really, as long as I get a good quality product, I dont care where it comes from, because it is likely that parts are made for it everywhere.

Someone mentioned, most of the Japanese and German trucks are built in America. Why? Because Americans want the trucks. Americans buy the trucks. Americans build the trucks. Does this make it German or Japanese? No. It may have been designed in Japan or Germany, but it is American made.

I remember a 1980s BBC series, called Auf Weidersehen Pet. (HardRockCamaro can probably relate to this)

It is about some builders, from the area I am from, going to Germany to earn money building German homes, it was a comedy series, but it hit home alot, after the first two series, no more were made. Then recently, two new series of the program were made, and Mark Knopfler wrote the theme music:

"We're the nomad tribes, travelling boys
In the dust and dirt and the racket and the noise
Drills and hammers, diggers and picks
Mixing concrete, laying bricks
There's English, Irish, Scots, the lot
United Nation's what we've got
Brickies, chippies, every trade
German building, british-made"

Same thign applies to America

RobertCTS
11-28-05, 01:26 PM
People get themselves in such a tizzy about this.

You want good quality goods that are cheap? The consumer forced things to be built elsewhere, nobody else, they want cheap prices, they will more often than not buy something for its price over where it was made, and the cheaper items are not home grown.

I have little choice but to buy foreign, and really, as long as I get a good quality product, I dont care where it comes from, because it is likely that parts are made for it everywhere.

Someone mentioned, most of the Japanese and German trucks are built in America. Why? Because Americans want the trucks. Americans buy the trucks. Americans build the trucks. Does this make it German or Japanese? No. It may have been designed in Japan or Germany, but it is American made.

I remember a 1980s BBC series, called Auf Weidersehen Pet. (HardRockCamaro can probably relate to this)

It is about some builders, from the area I am from, going to Germany to earn money building German homes, it was a comedy series, but it hit home alot, after the first two series, no more were made. Then recently, two new series of the program were made, and Mark Knopfler wrote the theme music:

"We're the nomad tribes, travelling boys
In the dust and dirt and the racket and the noise
Drills and hammers, diggers and picks
Mixing concrete, laying bricks
There's English, Irish, Scots, the lot
United Nation's what we've got
Brickies, chippies, every trade
German building, british-made"

Same thign applies to America

I think the point that you miss is many Americans serious patriots. To you it doesn't matter, to us it matters a lot. I also find it hard to forget and to move on but both the Germans and the Japanese killed a lot of American and English in an attempt to rule the world. I've moved past the hatred but I sure as hell don't want to help them economically take over the world!
I don't like the fact that I have a friggin' French transmission and a German differential but thank God it's a Cadillac.

FSU_Noles
11-28-05, 01:32 PM
The overlooked fact about "American" foreign car plants is that aside from the salaries the profits go back to the "motherland". Not to mention the huge tax breaks and incentives these companies are given to open their plants in the first place and the fact that they don't "allow" unions provides them with the margins necessary to undercut GM and Ford on their vehicles.

I buy GM and GM only.
:cool:

mccombie_5
11-28-05, 01:36 PM
I think the point that you miss is many Americans serious patriots. To you it doesn't matter, to us it matters a lot. I also find it hard to forget and to move on but both the Germans and the Japanese killed a lot of American and English in an attempt to rule the world. I've moved past the hatred but I sure as hell don't want to help them economically take over the world!
I don't like the fact that I have a friggin' French transmission and a German differential but thank God it's a Cadillac.
That maybe, I dont think patriotism has really got any effect on anyone in the UK
Those in this country who claim to be patriots are people like the BNP and the National Front, and actually relate to the Nazi Party well. This is unforgivable, since what went on in the war etc.
Yes they did, and they paid.
All I can say is that it is inevitable. Had people thoguht about the consequences in the 70s and 80s, maybe America would not be in its current position. I dont think it is now possible to stop the Chinese and Japanese developing.
ALSO, you say the Japanese and Germans killed alot of English and Americans. That was 60 years ago. Thats a generation, now, I know sure as hell I do not share the same views as the generation before me, and I will not take responsibility for their mistakes. I doubt most Germans and Japenese would agree with what the previous generation did, so why hold the grudge against them, I will hold a grudge against their parents, maybe, but certainly not them

mccombie_5
11-28-05, 01:39 PM
The overlooked fact about "American" foreign car plants is that aside from the salaries the profits go back to the "motherland". Not to mention the huge tax breaks and incentives these companies are given to open their plants in the first place and the fact that they don't "allow" unions provides them with the margins necessary to undercut GM and Ford on their vehicles.

I buy GM and GM only.
:cool:

My Vectra is a GM car, yet it was built in Germany.....

Its a Vauxhall, its not even British designed anymore.....

hardrockcamaro@mac.c
11-28-05, 01:55 PM
Yeah I remember Auf Weidersehen Pet, although not in any detail as I was a litle young I suppose. I watched the recent episdoes too.

If you try and be patriotic here you'll be compared to the BNP and the political correctness police will be on you like a ton of bricks. It's not socially acceptable in the UK to be patriotic. Mainly due to those who abuse that image such as the BNP and our foreign ambassadors, otherwise known as louts/yobs.

Frankly, I think it's too late to do anything about these countries who are becoming the next industrial captains of the world. The average consumer wants the cheapest microwave, tv, dvd player and whatever else they can get. And on credit too. We're becoming a nation of service industries.

All the flash memory for electroncis comes form the Far East, sure a lot of computers (including their components) are designed in the USA, but they're made in the far east. Your trainers are made in foreign lands.
They're made cheaply over ther ebecuase there are no unions,. bosses take advantage of employees by paying them next to nothing with no benefits. The mindset there is to work for the common good. If you don't like it there's thousands more waiting in line for your job.
And even if the parent companies are in the USA (or UK) they are using the large margins they make to get that money and invest it via other firms who then use that money to offer credit to the consumer so you can go out and buy more stuff.

Sure great things are stil made in the USA and the UK. We have great craftsmen that can put a car interior together like no-one else (if you're prepared to pay for it). The fine products today come from smaller companies and the prices are high. You cna buy a cheap suit from a chain store made in the far east or you can buy a fine suit from a tailors in Saville Row. Or you can buy a cheap pair of shoes made in some third world country, or you can buy a pair from Churchills.

I can buy a cheap torch or I can buy a Maglite.
I can buy a cheap multi-tool or I can buy a Leatherman.

Sadly, most people will not pay for quality.
I have a fine hi-fi system but if I put it on EBay what would I get? Next to nothing. Becuase they won't pay me as much as they'll pay for a new CD player from one of the big electrical stores ("but it's new, yours is old!").


People just look at the price tag and try and get as much stuff as they can.
They don't look a the long term picture. What it means for their kids, kids jobs.

hardrockcamaro@mac.c
11-28-05, 01:58 PM
Oh, and to those who think that so what if the american auto makers get swallowed up and disappear, they make Hondas on US soil now.
Do you seriously think the Japanese/Koreans would continue to build cars over there when they can move it back to Japan/Korea to give their own people jobs (without the union overhead)?

Once the domestic competitors are gone what is the US consumer going to do in protest? Walk instead? And what could the government do? Nothing.

powerglide
11-28-05, 02:00 PM
People get themselves in such a tizzy about this.
You want good quality goods that are cheap? The consumer forced things to be built elsewhere, nobody else, they want cheap prices, they will more often than not buy something for its price over where it was made, and the cheaper items are not home grown.
I have little choice but to buy foreign, and really, as long as I get a good quality product, I dont care where it comes from, because it is likely that parts are made for it everywhere.
Someone mentioned, most of the Japanese and German trucks are built in America. Why? Because Americans want the trucks. Americans buy the trucks. Americans build the trucks. Does this make it German or Japanese? No. It may have been designed in Japan or Germany, but it is American made.
I remember a 1980s BBC series, called Auf Weidersehen Pet. (HardRockCamaro can probably relate to this)
It is about some builders, from the area I am from, going to Germany to earn money building German homes, it was a comedy series, but it hit home alot, after the first two series, no more were made. Then recently, two new series of the program were made, and Mark Knopfler wrote the theme music:
"We're the nomad tribes, travelling boys
In the dust and dirt and the racket and the noise
Drills and hammers, diggers and picks
Mixing concrete, laying bricks
There's English, Irish, Scots, the lot
United Nation's what we've got
Brickies, chippies, every trade
German building, british-made"
Same thign applies to America



Couldn't have said it better myself!
:thumbsup: Its a global economy free market system.....we better get used to it and start competing instead of whining and boycotting.

mccombie_5
11-28-05, 02:04 PM
Yup unfortunately, it seems to be the way of the world.

I could be upset about there being no major car manufacturer left that is British owned, I am not, partly because its something thats been coming a LONG time, and partly because the foreign products are better

Jaguar?
Rolls Royce?
Bentley?
Land Rover?
Mini?

British names, owned by America or Germany. Of course I would like them to be owned in Britain, but the products are better because they arent.

Its the way things happen now, change is here to say, as someoen famous once said!

mccombie_5
11-28-05, 02:05 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself!
:thumbsup: Its a global economy free market system.....we better get used to it and start competing instead of whining and boycotting.

Cheers! :cheers:

RobertCTS
11-28-05, 02:18 PM
Well I can tell you Englishman that I think the world of Tony Blair. The man is a patriot of England and a great ally to the United States. The man has balls and popularity like our President Bush is in trouble.

If I had no choice but imports I think I would go with the Jaquar V8 even though it is a friggin' imported Ford.:D

Sandy
11-28-05, 02:22 PM
The folks working building the Mercedes in Germany, as well the Porsche, the VW and the BMW are in many many many instances the offspring of the SS in Nazi Germany. Like you said, they ARE the next generation! Who here doesn't love & cherish the memory of thier departed Father? Who here, does NOT respect what he stood for ? (I thought so) Therefore, in the large majority of them, there still is that feeling of hatred against Jewish people. My Grandparents were gas'd in the wonderfully built German Gas Chambers.
My Mother was tatoo'd with a number, and sent to a work camp. My Father fled to Poland, then to Italy, then to Mexico, and finally to America. When he arrived, he was 5' 7" and weighed 100 pounds. My Mother made it here easier after she escaped and was taken at night to the Auto Union (Audi) factory, where Wanderer, Horst, Auto Union & DKW made cars, but had to suspend such during ther "war" ~ Audi build a false floor in their building in which was set up printing presses to print for the Nazis. At night, they smuggled medicine & food down a hidden shute, to about 110 Jews below.
Many Died. Many lived. I was lucky. My Mom's Father was not. He was decapatated by the German sword, for reading a newspaper.
Arriving in this terrific country of America, they (Mom & Dad) later met in NYC.
My Mom had plastic surgery to remove the #s, but they could not remove them from her mind/heart. What did this wonderful country of America do for them? It allowed them the freedom to become what ever they dreamed of.
The both became lawyers, my Dad went on to be a Judge, my Mom a Patent Attorney. My Dad left the bench after a decade & returned to Law to become the Lawyer on the East Coast for Harley Davidson Industries.

The day that I buy (or drive) a mer-SAAAY-dees, a Foolswagon, a Bowel Movement Working, or a Porch, may I be returned to Nazi Germany. (and) it makes no differance where the H they make their crap, here or there, it all goes to strenghten their country, their economy. I will never do that.

Cost? Jealous? Ya think? No way. I own cars I've never spoken of here.
6 cars now & one hopefully coming soon. I could pay cash for a S60, a 7-Series or a Carrera S Turbo Wide Body. I pass. My Town Car does me fine.
Not here to impress anyone.

mccombie_5
11-28-05, 02:35 PM
Sandy, Your story is one I have read before, and it is very touching.

But hear this if you will

My dad, for example, has a problem with homosexuals, it isnt really his fault he just doesnt understand it.

Do I agree with his opinions? No. Would I respect them, if he went out and murdered every homosexual? No.

Same applies to many Germans. Their fathers have a problem with members of the Jewish faith. Most probably disagree with the opinions, and many of them are ashamed of waht their families did.

I believe many of them (the ones with any sense) are ashamed of what there parents and grandparents did. I would be in the example listed above, so I dont understand why they cannot be, for their parents MURDERED 6 million people.

Its a global market.... theres nothing anyone can do about it.

I buy what i see as best for me, regardless of the nation it comes from.

Also, yes, the profit of Honda Plants in America goes to Japan, what about the employees?

They are American, so they keep Americans in jobs

Just like the Nissan factory down the road from me keeps many Brits in jobs

And if people have jobs, people can support themselves, so it cant be that bad, can it?

RobertCTS
11-28-05, 02:40 PM
The folks working building the Mercedes in Germany, as well the Porsche, the VW and the BMW are in many many many instances the offspring of the SS in Nazi Germany. Like you said, they ARE the next generation! Who here doesn't love & cherish the memory of thier departed Father? Who here, does NOT respect what he stood for ? (I thought so) Therefore, in the large majority of them, there still is that feeling of hatred against Jewish people. My Grandparents were gas'd in the wonderfully built German Gas Chambers.
My Mother was tatoo'd with a number, and sent to a work camp. My Father fled to Poland, then to Italy, then to Mexico, and finally to America. When he arrived, he was 5' 7" and weighed 100 pounds. My Mother made it here easier after she escaped and was taken at night to the Auto Union (Audi) factory, where Wanderer, Horst, Auto Union & DKW made cars, but had to suspend such during ther "war" ~ Audi build a false floor in their building in which was set up printing presses to print for the Nazis. At night, they smuggled medicine & food down a hidden shute, to about 110 Jews below.
Many Died. Many lived. I was lucky. My Mom's Father was not. He was decapatated by the German sword, for reading a newspaper.
Arriving in this terrific country of America, they (Mom & Dad) later met in NYC.
My Mom had plastic surgery to remove the #s, but they could not remove them from her mind/heart. What did this wonderful country of America do for them? It allowed them the freedom to become what ever they dreamed of.
The both became lawyers, my Dad went on to be a Judge, my Mom a Patent Attorney. My Dad left the bench after a decade & returned to Law to become the Lawyer on the East Coast for Harley Davidson Industries.

The day that I buy (or drive) a mer-SAAAY-dees, a Foolswagon, a Bowel Movement Working, or a Porch, may I be returned to Nazi Germany. (and) it makes no differance where the H they make their crap, here or there, it all goes to strenghten their country, their economy. I will never do that.

Cost? Jealous? Ya think? No way. I own cars I've never spoken of here.
6 cars now & one hopefully coming soon. I could pay cash for a S60, a 7-Series or a Carrera S Turbo Wide Body. I pass. My Town Car does me fine.
Not here to impress anyone.

Ahhh Sandy you are a true American patriot.:yup: Your family endured a lot but look what it brought them. I can't change the mind of the consumers on this small forum but I sure won't embrace the world market.

Damn I hate calling Dell for service and getting some indian who can barely speak english.

mccombie_5
11-28-05, 02:45 PM
Ahhh Sandy you are a true American patriot.:yup: Your family endured a lot but look what it brought them. I can't change the mind of the consumers on this small forum but I sure won't embrace the world market.

Damn I hate calling Dell for service and getting some indian who can barely speak english.

Sandy is indeed a true patriot, I hold alot of respect to him for that.

Getting that Indian who cant speak English is another consquence of wanting everything cheaper

Dell have to keep up with forein competition by selling their computers at a low price, so the area they make it up is the staff in call centres.

If people didnt want to pay such low prices, Dell wouldnt need to compete with foreign companies, and you would likely have a poorer product, and great consumer service all at a higher price

RobertCTS
11-28-05, 03:16 PM
Sandy is indeed a true patriot, I hold alot of respect to him for that.

Getting that Indian who cant speak English is another consquence of wanting everything cheaper

Dell have to keep up with forein competition by selling their computers at a low price, so the area they make it up is the staff in call centres.

If people didnt want to pay such low prices, Dell wouldnt need to compete with foreign companies, and you would likely have a poorer product, and great consumer service all at a higher price

McCombie,
The point is that there are many American who don't like the direction it's taking us. And we resist it. Those American workers assembling Japanese cars and trucks don't make up for all the displaced American car assemblers who were laid off. They take those jobs because they must.

What happened to the British car market? They were renowned for their luxuary cars and sports cars. The British Government tried to save the last, the Rover, but failed. You guys must feel terrible about that and maybe a loss in national pride. But yet they are responsible themselves by not buying there own product.

God I hate to see that happen here:(

Sandy
11-28-05, 03:21 PM
My eyes are tearing up as I type this, so the miss-takes & typos will abound. I will go slowly.
My folks had it so hard. When they arrived here they had yet to meet, but their stories are similiar. Mom worked as a waitress while getting her American citizenship. She spoke German, Spanish, Hebrew & American. She ate outta garbage cans behind the place. She got caught. Was offered job & 1 meager meal a day. She kissed them. She made one dollar a day. She slept in a room in the back of the store. There was no heat at night. With no money, no parents, no home, she became a lawyer by age 35. My Dad began life just as penniless.
They had it very very hard, and that pushed them to suceed, to get to the top. I, on the other hand, had it easy. I reaped the rewards of what they sowed. My Goal ? To become a car salesman. I did it. I did well, for THAT profession. I was (and am) happy. I switched to writing and became an automotive journalist. I have written for many publications. Trust me on this...... I am no attorney. I make nothing even in the same ballpark in money when compared to what they achieved.
So it is too with thousands of Jews that escaped to America. Look 'round, how successful they all are. LOOK. Then look at their offspring, who like me, reaped the rewards.....few can measure up.
Hardship explodes determination and determination cannot be stopped.
But.....that's a rotten way to start life. Our Son had it harder than I, and he is very successful, he has that enormous drive - equal to an explosion - that I lacked, to a great degree. He goes to a university and was voted the most liely to achieve beyind his goals. He is a Sr. and while others are looking for where they will work, next year, Matt allready has companies chasing him ! He took a job in Manhattan starting at $55,000 a year (age 22).

hardrockcamaro@mac.c
11-28-05, 03:43 PM
It's that kind of drive and determination that makes America and Americans so great.

mccombie_5
11-28-05, 04:04 PM
McCombie,
The point is that there are many American who don't like the direction it's taking us. And we resist it. Those American workers assembling Japanese cars and trucks don't make up for all the displaced American car assemblers who were laid off. They take those jobs because they must.

What happened to the British car market? They were renowned for their luxuary cars and sports cars. The British Government tried to save the last, the Rover, but failed. You guys must feel terrible about that and maybe a loss in national pride. But yet they are responsible themselves by not buying there own product.

God I hate to see that happen here:(

I do not belive resistance will work out in the long run, mainly because there is no way to avoid it, the world market is here to stay, and particularly in the automotive sense, I believe Detroit is dead. The same way Coventry is dead.

Rover sucked, simple as, their cars, particuarly in the 1970s and 80s were terrible, and after this people lost confidence in Rover. Governemt poured alot of money in, and it was a downward spiral.

After BMW couldnt make anything of it they fobbed it off

Ford saw Jaguar as a good thing, and snapped it up

Bentley and Rolls Royce were overpowered by the Germans and had to be sold

TVR was sold to a rich Russian

Land Rover was part of Rover, now owned by Ford.

its a fact of life, Rover may come back at a later date, since BMW still own the name.

I am glad that these names are alive, and that they are putting out good quality products, that is enough for me, I ordered a Jaguar XJR last week, and my son will take delivery of a Jaguar S-Type very soon. I am glad I have the choice to buy these. Does it bother me that America owns these? Not one bit, they are doing a better job than Britain has done in a long time.

mccombie_5
11-28-05, 04:07 PM
It's that kind of drive and determination that makes America and Americans so great.

Indeed, I dont think we have that here at all in the UK.

RobertCTS
11-28-05, 04:09 PM
My eyes are tearing up as I type this, so the miss-takes & typos will abound. I will go slowly.
My folks had it so hard. When they arrived here they had yet to meet, but their stories are similiar. Mom worked as a waitress while getting her American citizenship. She spoke German, Spanish, Hebrew & American. She ate outta garbage cans behind the place. She got caught. Was offered job & 1 meager meal a day. She kissed them. She made one dollar a day. She slept in a room in the back of the store. There was no heat at night. With no money, no parents, no home, she became a lawyer by age 35. My Dad began life just as penniless.
They had it very very hard, and that pushed them to suceed, to get to the top. I, on the other hand, had it easy. I reaped the rewards of what they sowed. My Goal ? To become a car salesman. I did it. I did well, for THAT profession. I was (and am) happy. I switched to writing and became an automotive journalist. I have written for many publications. Trust me on this...... I am no attorney. I make nothing even in the same ballpark in money when compared to what they achieved.
So it is too with thousands of Jews that escaped to America. Look 'round, how successful they all are. LOOK. Then look at their offspring, who like me, reaped the rewards.....few can measure up.
Hardship explodes determination and determination cannot be stopped.
But.....that's a rotten way to start life. Our Son had it harder than I, and he is very successful, he has that enormous drive - equal to an explosion - that I lacked, to a great degree. He goes to a university and was voted the most liely to achieve beyind his goals. He is a Sr. and while others are looking for where they will work, next year, Matt allready has companies chasing him ! He took a job in Manhattan starting at $55,000 a year (age 22).

Sandy,
Sounds like the making of success seminar. I'm sure you're humbled by the success of your son..you under-achiever!:p

I'm glad you took the time to share with us.:yup:

mccombie_5
11-28-05, 04:24 PM
Sandy,
Sounds like the making of success seminar. I'm sure you're humbled by the success of your son..you under-achiever!:p

I'm glad you took the time to share with us.:yup:

I hadnt heard the second part of the story

Thanks Sandy, and congratulations to your son

Elvis
11-28-05, 05:16 PM
Somewhere along the line, you must've done something right, Sandy. Congrats on having such a great son.

haute_heir
11-28-05, 05:26 PM
The day that I buy (or drive) a mer-SAAAY-dees, a Foolswagon, a Bowel Movement Working, or a Porch, may I be returned to Nazi Germany. (and) it makes no differance where the H they make their crap, here or there, it all goes to strenghten their country, their economy. I will never do that.

Cost? Jealous? Ya think? No way. I own cars I've never spoken of here.
6 cars now & one hopefully coming soon. I could pay cash for a S60, a 7-Series or a Carrera S Turbo Wide Body. I pass. My Town Car does me fine.
Not here to impress anyone.

Though I do understand what went on in Nazi Germany, I strongly disagree with your views of Germany today. You can't hold a countries past against them forever. Germany was ruled under a dictatorship, and the majority of Germans were forced to either follow suit or die like the rest of the people in the genocide. Having lived in Germany for over a year, I quickly came to the realization that Adolf Hitler and Nazi's are not something that is to be brought up. Most people will not talk about those times, as they had nothing to do with them; they are simply embarresed by the fact. Germany was put in shambles after the war and has only very recently become a respected country of Europe once again. They have paid for what was done, there is no need to hold such a horrific event of the past against the German youth. I am not saying you don't have the choice to buy whatever goods you want, but you can't base your purchasing decisions on a genocide that has nothing to do with the vast majority of Germans today. Your reference to current Germany as 'Nazi Germany' is false, of poor taste, and I can't respect such statements. As much as I recognize the past and my heart bleeds for those who suffered, your views are outdated and selfish. Germans have worked their entire lives to be rid of the stigma placed upon them, why don't you go on a German-based forum and call them Nazi's? I'm sure you'll get even more respect.

As for China... I for one will not be purchasing anything made from there. I will continue to support any part of Europe, UK, and America. Our futures and childrens futures will be very different if China becomes the most powerful country in the world. They must be stopped, people should be aware of the freedoms they enjoy today and then look at the freedoms that the Chinese people have. Is that the future you want?

Playdrv4me
11-28-05, 05:38 PM
If anything, I feel bad for those Germans who have to carry the embarrasment and shame of what their forefathers were involved in. Thats a heavy burden to carry.

Caddy Man
11-28-05, 05:44 PM
Though I do understand what went on in Nazi Germany, I strongly disagree with your views of Germany today. You can't hold a countries past against them forever. Germany was ruled under a dictatorship, and the majority of Germans were forced to either follow suit or die like the rest of the people in the genocide. Having lived in Germany for over a year, I quickly came to the realization that Adolf Hitler and Nazi's are not something that is to be brought up. Most people will not talk about those times, as they had nothing to do with them; they are simply embarresed by the fact. Germany was put in shambles after the war and has only very recently become a respected country of Europe once again. They have paid for what was done, there is no need to hold such a horrific event of the past against the German youth. I am not saying you don't have the choice to buy whatever goods you want, but you can't base your purchasing decisions on a genocide that has nothing to do with the vast majority of Germans today. Your reference to current Germany as 'Nazi Germany' is false, of poor taste, and I can't respect such statements. As much as I recognize the past and my heart bleeds for those who suffered, your views are outdated and selfish. Germans have worked their entire lives to be rid of the stigma placed upon them, why don't you go on a German-based forum and call them Nazi's? I'm sure you'll get even more respect.
As for China... I for one will not be purchasing anything made from there. I will continue to support any part of Europe, UK, and America. Our futures and childrens futures will be very different if China becomes the most powerful country in the world. They must be stopped, people should be aware of the freedoms they enjoy today and then look at the freedoms that the Chinese people have. Is that the future you want?
great post....what about all the things Americans did?? Basically stole native americans land, enslaved africans, then once 'freed' african americans were treated like second class citizens. What about all the discrimination when differnt immirgrants were coming to America?? You cannot hold a countries past actions, especially when they cross over the current generation.

mccombie_5
11-28-05, 05:47 PM
Finally someone can see this

Don't get me wrong, what happened is not a good thing, and it is unforgivable for those who did it but their sons and daughtes should not be punished... or even have a grudge held against them.

addison_ii
11-28-05, 06:06 PM
I try as much as possible to buy American or Canadian made products. I own 3 vehicles. My Cadillac and Pontiac were made in the U.S., my Lincoln was made in Canada(I think).My electronics were bought used so the profits went to American owned companies. The new stuff electronics I have were bought from American companies. While China may eventually overtake us we don't have to help in the process. I will continue to buy GM and American when I can but sadly as was noted before we don't have a choice in some matters.

Sandy, you sent me the story about Audi being so instrumental in saving the lives of hundreds of Jews and others, I never took the time to Thank You so Thank You is in order. Your parents embodied the spirit of what made this country. Your son is a testament to your life course because our kids first teacher is no one other than us. So by our example they move through life and eventually make their own legacy, so be very proud and congratulations to you and your family. I hope that my kids are such a testament to my parentage as your son is to you and your wife.

We do need to start competing with the Chinese(and others) because complaining and whining will get us nowhere. Just as they have flooded our country with low cost goods, do the same to them. In order for America Made to survive we need to employ the same tactics against them that they use on us.

RobertCTS
11-28-05, 06:26 PM
great post....what about all the things Americans did?? Basically stole native americans land, enslaved africans, then once 'freed' african americans were treated like second class citizens. What about all the discrimination when differnt immirgrants were coming to America?? You cannot hold a countries past actions, especially when they cross over the current generation.

I find myself backing up again to the Civil War again. Holy Shit we were fighting each other! I'm a Civil War Buff and I'm amazed at the carnage we did to ourselves. I find it hard to believe we killed more of ourselves than WWI, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam and the Iraq war COMBINED. That embarrasses the hell out of me. The South carries the burden with their first attack at Fort Sumpter. They attacked America and the American Constitution.

I'm from Lancaster, OH, the birth home of General William Tecumseh Sherman.
He forever changed the ways of warfare. The Southerners still howl at the destruction caused by this American General. He was the in charge at the Mississippi State University at the time of the war. He loved the South but loved the Constitution of the USA even more. The South still hates this man to this day some onehundered forty years later. So you can understand why some Americans still remember the Germans and the Japanese attack on us. I guess if you weren't there its easier to forgive and forget but as a historian I still remember.

The hate is gone but I sure won't can't support them as some here proclaim. The biggest banner I have to wave is my duty in the armed forces, my business, my home, and my friggin' car. Cadillac is the American standard to the automobile. Giddy up CTS :D

haute_heir
11-28-05, 06:50 PM
great post....what about all the things Americans did?? Basically stole native americans land, enslaved africans, then once 'freed' african americans were treated like second class citizens. What about all the discrimination when differnt immirgrants were coming to America?? You cannot hold a countries past actions, especially when they cross over the current generation.

Great addition Caddy Man. Like I said previously, you have the choice to buy whatever you wish, but you don't have the right today to call Germany "Nazi Germany". The American settlers slaughtered basically every Indian that first inhabited this land. Should we be stuck with a stigma of being the murdering white man for a masacre our great grandparents did when they came here? I don't think so. The past is the past, and that little 6 hour old baby girl born in Germany today knows nothing of the past, nor does she have any hate towards Jewish people. Chances are, her parents and grandparents had nothing to do with the genocide either. And what about all the immigrants in Germany? You can't generalize an entire country for the actions of a few meager people decades ago. Adolf himself wasn't even German, he was an Austrian. Luckily for Austria, they got away virtually scott free for the murderer that was born there. But even today, Austrians cannot be held responsible for this guy being born in their country...