Just wanted to state I got my service manuals. Man those things are crazy.. 3 books totaling 3000+ pages.. Man I cant wait to use these! I also picked up a Seville wrecking list. Just a parts list for most of the Seville. Not sure what book it's from. But there's some interior parts (leather stuff) im looking to replace. Just wondering if anyone's ever used the wreck list? A couple parts ive looked up werent existant. But im happy.

MacK

Enjoy em. Mine have saved me thousands of dollars. There is very little mystery in the way the vehicles are assembled after the investment in those books. It is a very wise purchase.

With the problems ive had in the year and a 1/2 of owning.. I know these manuals will be worth it once my warranty is up. Tons of information in those books.

Parts list here: http://gallery.iametarq.com/photos/cars/cadillac%201998%20seville%20sls/parts%20list/

Download pdf.

Congrats! Just be careful what you ask for.:)

I bought mine a year ago and just now pulled it out to browse and get a hint how to remove a trim panel. Worked great!

Kale

I just ordered my manuel today. I read on this forum after I purchase one that the Haynes/Chilton service manuels are a waste of money and they were sooooooo right. I tried to take it back but it was beaten up too badly from me trying to find even the basic info. I was so pissed.

That .pdf is the same parts list I have. Though mines paper. But yea.. I look forward to many repairs I can do myself.

MacK

That .pdf is the same parts list I have. Though mines paper. But yea.. I look forward to many repairs I can do myself.

MacK

i bet it is the same. I bought them on ebay and then scanned them into jpg files and then made it into a pdf file for people here to download. :)

Well I won the auction on ebay and my service manuals cost me $54. I should have it in about 3 or 4 days. I'm looking forward to finding out as much as I can to keep my baby purring with the best of them. I thank all forum members for their info. Thanks.

I got my service manual yesterday and since then I have been trying to decifer this thing. I can't even find out how to replace my CPS let alone anything else. Trust me I'm not stupid I just figured it would be simpler to just go to what you want to fix. I don't doubt the info is here its just that I see I must take some time to figure out where to look. This book is cramed with info so now I know it will take some patients to find what I'm looking for.

I hear ya. I would not call these manuals user friendly. I have had cases where I had to go to 2 or 3 different chapters to get all the information I needed, and the drawings in many cases leave a lot to be desired.

I got the FSM manuals for my 2003 STS on Wednesday. Four manuals. I have the FSM for my 93 Deville and it is much more friendly than these new ones for my 2003 Seveille STS. But, they seem to have so much more information and are more heavily geared to the tech who doesn't have a lot of time on his hands.

I agree the manuals are not user friendly. I have the hardest time looking up error codes from the DIC. It drives me absolutely nuts!! I also get real annoyed when it lists something like "Remove xxx, to do so refer to the secion on removing xxx, then continue on with what you originally wanted to replace". DOH!!

Just to explain the complexity of those manuals, I'll give you a few pointers.
Imagine having to use those every day! That's where I live!

Problem number one, in 1998 GM began using electronic service information, I think at the time of release it was called "SI 2000".
(since then they have dropped the 2000 and now want to call it eSI, but we are all resisting because of an "ESI" experiment gone wrong in the late 90s)
I just call it SI.
With that in mind know that the '97 and back manuals were a dream to use. Information was organized in such a way that I could literally drop the manual and have it fall open to the page I needed!
In 98 with the switch to electronic Service Information they slightly reorganized the information to a "computer friendly format".
Those places where it says "refer to xxxx" are actually hyperlinks on html coded pages that let us click there and go right to the document we need. Not so handy in book form is it?
Over the years I have grown accustomed to using the computerized version but it has taught me where to find things in the paper manuals in the event of a power outage ;)

The first thing you have to get used to is WHERE to find the information you are looking for. The two keys are knowing how the sections are broken down and remembering that GM engineers like to arrange information based on "what something is connected to".

There are I think 10 sections in the manual. Look in the very front of book number one and it will give you a general overview of the main sections. From there you have to learn what system is in what section.

The next part is you have to figure out subsections or "what it's connected to". If you want to find information on something like the inside rear view mirror, you'd look under "stationary glass". And if you want the outside rear view mirrors or the power windows you'd look under "doors" in body and accessories.

Body and accessories is the largest and hardest to use section, Engine is a close second but they break it down a little better.
If you have major problems let me know and I'll guide you a bit.

HTH.

ewill3rd thanks for the input. I'll accept your offer if I look for something and its 40 minutes later and I still haven't found it. Cheers.

I have a question for you ewill3rd-

When the schematic shows wires in a circuit with a "figure 8" between them does that indicate a twisted pair? I can post a pic if need be...

I agree these manuals are harder to read, but the index is a lot more helpful than the one I have for my 93 Mark.

Kale

I am not sure I can find something that has the exact thing you are looking for.
Let me check something....Do you have an example? (such as, ABS wiring for a xx model)

... oh I see.... yes if there is a figure 8 looking thing wrapped around two wires next to eachother that means it's a twisted pair.
That helps some types of wires keep from getting "noise" on them. ABS speed sensor wires are a perfect example of that.

There is one thing that looks like a circle around a pair of wires with a black dot tying it to another wire. That means those wires are shielded.

At the very beginning of section 8 there should be something that identifies the symbols used in the schematics for each year.

I'd love to have an HTML version of the FSM. That would be a dream come true. Do they ever show up on ebay?

I imagine HTML version would be the cd-rom version Helm has.. Only thing is it's over $1,000. I havent seen anything like that on ebay.

MacK

I imagine HTML version would be the cd-rom version Helm has.. Only thing is it's over $1,000. I havent seen anything like that on ebay.

MacK

I bet you are correct. man, if only i was clever enough to get into my dealer and make copies of their CDs. :lildevil:

They used to have 6 disks sets for local installation on our computers.
Recently with the wide use of broadband, they told all the dealers to connect using some sort of high speed connection and they are moving access to everything via the internet. Believe me it's waaaaaaay better than it used to be. I think the '96-'98 time period was actually the worst!

There are old CD sets floating around, there are also places on the web where SI is being illegally hosted using old CD sets. I know people that actively search these sights out and sick the GM legal machine on them.
It's copyrighted material, so they don't play games with it.
They send out copies of a DVD that lets everything live on one disk, in the event of a loss of internet connection or a "standalone" computer.
It takes about 5 minutes to load and it's a lot slower than using it on the web.

Over the past two years they have really tightened security on accessing SI online. They totally changed the way we access it and make it harder to get to basically.

It's nice having it on web pages, most of the time.
We need more bandwidth at my dealership though. I mean it's fast enough, but not as fast as I have at home.... of course I only have to share with 3 other computers at home instead of the hundred at work.

Is the cd versions more user friendly? I believe I saw some on ebay awhile ago.

I think what you saw on Ebay wasn't the CD version of the Helms manuals. There are other companies out there doing the CD version. From what I read on this board, they're not *nearly* as good as the printed Helms edition. In fact, I understand the CDs you're seeing are actually rather horrible to use.

If you intend to buy these, you'll want to write the seller and ask specifically if it says "Helm, Inc" on the CDs.

If those are the old CD sets from GM, whoever is selling them is looking for big trouble by trying to sell them.
Otherwise I wouldn't know much about them.
The GM sets are the best.
The online version that you guys don't have access to is really the best but you pretty much have to be a dealership employee to gain access to them.
Sorry :(

If those are the old CD sets from GM, whoever is selling them is looking for big trouble by trying to sell them.
Otherwise I wouldn't know much about them.
The GM sets are the best.
The online version that you guys don't have access to is really the best but you pretty much have to be a dealership employee to gain access to them.
Sorry :(

Ford did the same thing, beginning around the same time frame. The on line system is called OASIS which has strict user (dealership) access. There were not only the repair Cd's. but also time management (rate), crash guide, and much more on DVD in the beginning of the year 2000. Again, the Ford licensed Cd's and DVDs are proprietary information, not for public domain, but have been for sale on eBay.

Ford did the same thing, beginning around the same time frame. The on line system is called OASIS which has strict user (dealership) access. There were not only the repair Cd's. but also time management (rate), crash guide, and much more on DVD in the beginning of the year 2000. Again, the Ford licensed Cd's and DVDs are proprietary information, not for public domain, but have been for sale on eBay.

I have the Ford CDs for my PowerStroke Diesel. Not nearly as good as the Helm manuals. The application that installs in your computer to access the database is a P.O.S.

Maybe I'll hire 007 to steal the info for me. HaHa.

Thanks for the clarification ewill3rd.

Kale

I might not need 007, Ewill3rd, I don't have the Helms manual. Could you or someone else give me a idea if this is the GM manual. The book reads E/K Plateform, GMP/96-E/K-1 or I and it has a little circle that seize Authentic Technical Service Information with GM in the middle of the circle. Any help is appreciated. I just don't want to buy another set if I don't have to.

A '96 E/K book should be a kind of dark green color.
I think it's a 2 book set.
That sounds like the factory manual to me. Those are the good ones.

Turn to section 8A-50. If it says something like "data link communications" then it's a factory manual.
That was back when all the systems always had a specific number in section 8A. Those were awesome. I used to have them all memorized, now it's a little fuzzy but I can usually get to it pretty fast.
I can give you some tips on using those books that might even blow your mind.

ewill3rd... One of these days Im going to hit you up on your offer. Id like to tear apart the seat to fix the seatheater and im sure the manuals will confuse me.

MacK

Not to diminish my job... but seat heaters are really not that bad.
The trick is getting the upholstery off (depending on the design) and getting it back on with everything lined up.
I don't have to do much trimwork these days because we have 2 trim guys, but once and a while I dabble.
;)

Let me know.

I must have been lucky, because I snatched a CD set eSI. I think it's 8 CDs. It sounds as if it's exactly what you're talking about...

Your'e looking at something, then it says to look at something else to find out how to remove that, then you have to come back. The difference, as ewill mentioned, is that it's a hyperlink. I just open it in a new tab (Firefox), and print it all in sequence--and staple it. Then I go down to my car to work on it.

It's been very helpful and it also has the tech bulletins, etc. I always thought that having an actual book would be better because you could just look through it and its easier to read than on a computer screen--but I had no idea it is so big and hard to navigate.

If the originals are $1K, then these must be pirated I guess. I think they were shipped from Australia--oddly enough.

mine covers from 95 I believe up to 2005.

The GM CD sets cover TSBs from I think 1981.
Service manual coverage begins sporadically in '96 and is complete for '98 and up models to the date they were burned.
The version number on the disk label tells you a lot. If you click on the question mark at the main menu and then click something else it will give you the version number.

Iwill3rd I will check to see if it seize data link communications and yes it is dark green, then get back to you. It was mailed from Wisconsin if that has anything to do with me getting this versionl. Thanks.

Ewill3rd I have the book in front of me and this page said Data Link Connector (DLC) Class 2 Data Line in Electrical Diagnosis. This book is Kramed with Info. the more I explore the more I want to explore. I need to diagnose a problem of my own that's bothering me dealing with a rubbing on the passenger's side. This has nothing to do with this thread but I intend to post another thread thanks for your info.

Yep, those are the factory manuals. I have the same ones in the shop.
Those are the best. By '96 they really had them fine tuned to a way that I just loved.
I was drooling on some today looking for some info.
'97 was okay but they made a lot of changes in '97 and actually they told us not to even use '97 books for lots of cars because there were so many errors in them. They even have the Tech 2 display a mandatory 20 second message on Corvette, every time you enter diagnostics it tells you to use '98 manuals when working on a '97 Corvette, you have to wait until the screen clears to continue! I laugh every time I see it.
Then in '98 they just destroyed them with this computerized format.
Don't get me wrong, the disks are great... but the books are a train wreck because they are set up in a computerized format.

Well since I got the manuals that are better than the Helms I feel special(just joking). Now that I got the info from you about the computerized formant and I'm a logical person anyway I appreciate your input and will be looking for you to chim in in the future so Ranger isn't the only one who will be putting your name in the front of a thread but this in no insult to the moderater's of this forum because of you and Bbob I have learned alot. Yes this forum is a GOLDMINE.

The GM CD sets cover TSBs from I think 1981.
Service manual coverage begins sporadically in '96 and is complete for '98 and up models to the date they were burned.
The version number on the disk label tells you a lot. If you click on the question mark at the main menu and then click something else it will give you the version number.

Thanks ewill, here's the info that came up when I hit the question mark:

Service Information (SI), November 2004 (v. 2004.19) Service Information (SI) contains:
1980 - present Service Bulletins and Campaigns
1996 & 1997 Engine and Transmission (Sections 6 & 7)
1998 - 2004 Service Manuals (all sections of the manual)
2005 Chevrolet Cavalier, Aveo, Optra, Vivant, Epica, Corvette, Classic, Malibu, Monte Carlo, Impala, Colorado, Blazer, TrailBlazer, SSR, Equinox, Silverado, Avalanche, Tahoe, Suburban, Venture, Astro, Express, Medium Duty T Series (F6/F7/F8), Medium Duty C Series (C4/C5/C6/C7/C8) and Medium Duty Steel Tilt (W Model)
2005 Pontiac Aztek, Bonneville, G6, Grand Am, Grand Prix, Matiz , Wave, Montana, Sunfire and Vibe
2005 Buick Century, LeSabre, Allure, LaCrosse, Park Avenue, Rendezvous and Rainier
2005 Cadillac CTS, XLR, DeVille, STS, SRX and Escalade
2005 GMC Envoy, Envoy XUV, Jimmy, Canyon, Sierra, Yukon, Yukon XL, Safari, Savana, Medium Duty T Series (F6/F7/F8) and TopKick Medium Duty C Series (C4/C5/C6/C7/C8), Medium Duty Steel Tilt (W Model)
2005 Saturn ION, L Series and VUE
2005 HUMMER H2
2005 Isuzu Ascender and N Series

Additional 2005 vehicle content will be released via incremental updates, as the information becomes available.
Labor Time Guide (LTG) contains:
Current model year and six (6) years back.

That's pretty cool, but I'd kind of recommend against advertising that you have those... ;)
I am sure I used that set sometime in the past.
They have actually made quite a few changes to the format since then.
The new version is a little cleaner.
I know the guy who writes the code for SI, so I get to tell him what I want, I usually see changes that I recommend and he is a smart guy, he comes up with some killer ideas.