: No2 + N* ???



Vrocks
11-09-05, 04:37 PM
There doesn't seem to be a lot of options to modify the N*, at least not easily. Would a 50 - 75 shot dry kit be too much for the stock injectors or drivetrain?
- Eight cylinders and 320HP = 40HP / cylinder
- 75 shot = about +10HP / cylinder or a 25% increase in power.
- 50 shot = about + 6HP / cylinder or a 15% increase in power.

eldorado1
11-09-05, 04:57 PM
Would a 50 - 75 shot dry kit be too much for the stock injectors or drivetrain?
- Eight cylinders and 320HP = 40HP / cylinder
- 75 shot = about +10HP / cylinder or a 25% increase in power.
- 50 shot = about + 6HP / cylinder or a 15% increase in power.
Yes it would. Ideally you'd have a direct port wet setup. Then you don't have to worry about fuel pooling in your intake.
The northstar should take a 100 shot easily. 75 would probably be my limit on a stock, higher mileage engine. The problem is unlike boost, nitrous comes on suddenly. This correlates to higher strain on the engine and drivetrain...
If this is going on the 2006, I'd probably go with the 100.:thumbsup:

btw- it's N2O, not NO2. The nitrogen dissociates to cool the charge, otherwise it would be no different than using liquid oxygen or something.

Vrocks
11-09-05, 09:03 PM
btw- it's N2O, not NO2. The nitrogen dissociates to cool the charge, otherwise it would be no different than using liquid oxygen or something.
:D

auroradude
11-10-05, 12:21 AM
I wish i could do even a 50 shot on my 4.0 Northstar. The fact that my engine only even uses somewhere around 260hp out of the 320 that the 4T80-E can handle is a good advantage. My engine probably couldnt handle it though with the way it leaks oil and stuff.

Vrocks
11-10-05, 04:44 PM
I wish i could do even a 50 shot on my 4.0 Northstar. The fact that my engine only even uses somewhere around 260hp out of the 320 that the 4T80-E can handle is a good advantage. My engine probably couldnt handle it though with the way it leaks oil and stuff.
I heard that the leaking oil problem is difficult to fix. Apparently the cylinders need to be honed and the pistons will need new rings. I've never been one to baby my car (not saying you did) and I don't abuse it either, so hopefully carbon build up won't be a problem.

You mentioned the HP rating of the 4T80-E which is something I was concerned of if I do mod the car. My car is using the 5 speed which is based on the 4, and I read somewhere that it's capable of handling more power but they didn't state how much. That's why if I do it I'll probably limit the system to a 50 shot, at 370HP it'll have a power to weight ratio close to what my C5 vert had. I also think this would be a very cool looking mod to do but I need to find a place to hide a small bottle because the trunk isn't a good place for this car.

danbuc
11-11-05, 02:14 AM
It's not so much the actual friction and steel plates, and associated hubs and pistons that can't handle the power, but rather the components after that, like the diff, and axle shafts..ect. Hitting the nitrous right off the line with anything more than a 50-75 shot, would almsot certainly tear the drivetrain a new one. This however should be too much of a concern, since your not going to be spraying right off the line, but rather further up in the power band. The 4T80E is a very strong transaxle, that can easily handle more than 320hp, provided it's applied at the right time. Once the car is moving, there is much less shock to the drivetrain, when the additional power is applied. I would also recommend a set of slicks, since traction will be somewhat limited. A perfect setup would be a 2800rpm stall converter, drag radials (prefferably a set like M/T's or other), and a wet 50 shot. With the harder launch provided by the slick and converter, the nitrous oxide could be used further down the track, adding to what was already gained by the previous two mods. Judging by what Mark99STS ran (14.1) with his 2800rpm converter and slicks, a 50 shot added onto that in theory shoudl be enough to break the 13.9 mark. Using it further down the track means much less stress on the drivetrain (since it's already moving at high speed under heavy load), as well as more control.

Vrocks
11-11-05, 09:39 AM
It's not so much the actual friction and steel plates, and associated hubs and pistons that can't handle the power, but rather the components after that, like the diff, and axle shafts..ect. Hitting the nitrous right off the line with anything more than a 50-75 shot, would almsot certainly tear the drivetrain a new one. This however should be too much of a concern, since your not going to be spraying right off the line, but rather further up in the power band. The 4T80E is a very strong transaxle, that can easily handle more than 320hp, provided it's applied at the right time. Once the car is moving, there is much less shock to the drivetrain, when the additional power is applied. I would also recommend a set of slicks, since traction will be somewhat limited. A perfect setup would be a 2800rpm stall converter, drag radials (prefferably a set like M/T's or other), and a wet 50 shot. With the harder launch provided by the slick and converter, the nitrous oxide could be used further down the track, adding to what was already gained by the previous two mods. Judging by what Mark99STS ran (14.1) with his 2800rpm converter and slicks, a 50 shot added onto that in theory shoudl be enough to break the 13.9 mark. Using it further down the track means much less stress on the drivetrain (since it's already moving at high speed under heavy load), as well as more control.
This is going to be more complicated then I thought it would be. Initially I just thought it would be a cool project because I've never used N2O before. I could only use a small bottle, I have an auto so I don't know if it's possible to make it turn on after 2nd gear, @ > 5,000rpm and > 95% throttle..... The second gear part is probably impossible but the rest could be done. Obviously if I do it I'll let you guys know, and believe me I want to but I'll probably have to do the install by myself over a weekend, so finding time and figuring things out will be tough (plus, this would be my first install if I do it).

eldorado1
11-11-05, 12:02 PM
...and a wet 50 shot.

that would most definately NOT be the "perfect setup". the northstar has a unique intake manifold that just LOVES to collect liquid on the bottom.

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=880724C3-1AB3-43C9-96A8-491BD5FBDD33&term=wet%20nitrous&p=0

^^ and that's what happens.

wet shot = bad
dry shot = bad, but better
direct port = good

davesdeville
11-12-05, 06:03 AM
I have an auto so I don't know if it's possible to make it turn on after 2nd gear, @ > 5,000rpm and > 95% throttle..... The second gear part is probably impossible but the rest could be done. Obviously if I do it I'll let you guys know, and believe me I want to but I'll probably have to do the install by myself over a weekend, so finding time and figuring things out will be tough (plus, this would be my first install if I do it).

Most (OK, all) nitrous systems use a WOT switch or IIRC NX splices into the TPS. So it will only activate when it's at WOT. All systems use another manual switch so you can select when you want to spray and when you just want to floor it to merge on the freeway or something. You'll want to use a nitrous window of 3k rpm and higher, spraying at less than about that RPM could allow a kind of "backfire" in the manifold.

On a MultiPort Fuel Injected motor, most intake manifolds are designed for air only, so if you spray in liquid gasoline (as in wet shot) into the intake near the throttle body that liquid can pool up. Which could result in a lean condition and detonation, and increases the chance of your intake manifold going boom. Dry shots use your stock fuel system... and everybody avoids them for good reason if they're running any kind of decent sized shot.

That leaves you with direct port, which (kind of like MPFI) sprays the fuel and nitrous near where the injectors are. This is the safest you can get with nitrous.

As far as the size of the shot goes... 50 is on the small side. 100 is towards the big size. 75 would be pretty safe IMO. (Then again keep in mind I'm just some dude on the internet, I could be a total idiot for all you know.)

Vrocks
11-13-05, 08:51 PM
It looks like this is a much more serious project than I originally tought it might be. I wanted to spray it in throught the intake manifold but that's out of the question after seeing the Mustang and from what you guys have told me.
I think I'll stick to a better flowing intake and possibly an exhaust. Anything else is going to require serious time and money to get things right, and if for some reason they go wrong, I could lose the engine and possibly the car due to a fire.

danbuc
11-13-05, 10:13 PM
that would most definately NOT be the "perfect setup". the northstar has a unique intake manifold that just LOVES to collect liquid on the bottom.

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=880724C3-1AB3-43C9-96A8-491BD5FBDD33&term=wet%20nitrous&p=0

^^ and that's what happens.

wet shot = bad
dry shot = bad, but better
direct port = good

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I was merely reffering to not running a dry shot. I should have mention the Nitrous kit for the 3800 series V6. The direct port setup for that engine can easily be modified to fit the northstar.

davesdeville
11-14-05, 01:26 AM
It looks like this is a much more serious project than I originally tought it might be. I wanted to spray it in throught the intake manifold but that's out of the question after seeing the Mustang and from what you guys have told me.

...and if for some reason they go wrong, I could lose the engine and possibly the car due to a fire.

Nah it's really not that bad, you could probably have it all installed within a day or so, definately a weekend.

danbuc, tell me more about this 3800 direct port kit. Like who makes it first of all... any other info you think might be helpful.