: Most bland car brand?



SpeedyArizona
11-05-05, 04:36 PM
What, in your opinion, is the most bland car brand out there. A car company that might be somewhat reliable, but have some of the most boring car designs on the market. I'm not talking the worst car company, but one that is bland and unexciting.

mccombie_5
11-05-05, 04:37 PM
I have two

Toyota

Porsche

Adam
11-05-05, 04:43 PM
honda and toyota, couldnt vote for both.

urbanski
11-05-05, 04:48 PM
i voted saturn, but i had forgotten about the Sky. duh.

I had a Volvo S60, loved her looks. Their new vert is a looker too.

urbanski
11-05-05, 04:49 PM
I have two
Toyota
Porsche
Porsche, really? why?
i had a 996 C4S and loved that thing. Nice swoopy curves. Huge hips. Don't get me wrong, i HATE the cayman and boxster....but the 911 holds my heart.

mccombie_5
11-05-05, 04:54 PM
Porsche, really? why?
i had a 996 C4S and loved that thing. Nice swoopy curves. Huge hips. Don't get me wrong, i HATE the cayman and boxster....but the 911 holds my heart.

Theyre boring, and bland. Sure theyre sports cars, but theyve been the same forever. And it still looks like a strretched out beetle. And now they know it and built a 4x4 a sedan and a soon wagon, they are so boring, the facelists always look the same. The most extreme one was when they went to Boxster style headlamps on the 911. Then they decided it was too estreme and changed them back!!!

Porsche are bland, when compared to a similar Maserati or TVR

1992 911: http://www.fast-autos.net/porsche/92turbos2.jpg

2005 911: http://www.automotorclub.com/articole/the-car-of-the-year-2005/porsche-911.jpg

The 2005 looks like a slightly smoothed out 92!

SpeedyArizona
11-05-05, 04:58 PM
If you're looking it from that standpoint, then yes Porsche's are bland. But I'd still have to say they excite me whenever I pass one in my Eldorado!

mccombie_5
11-05-05, 05:00 PM
For the amount they cost I'd sooner have a MAzzer

Ralph
11-05-05, 05:05 PM
I voted Saab. It's typical of GM to purchase these car companies like Lotus, use some of their technology in other cars, and then starve them into oblivion or hardly invest in them at all in the way of new product.

Saturn imo is on the rise, and money is flowing into that division for new and exciting product.

Playdrv4me
11-05-05, 05:07 PM
Honda is by far the blandest automotive maker on the planet. Dont go throwing Kia and Hyundai at me because I know youre thinking about it... but the truth is they try hard to keep the product fresh and exciting IN ITS PRICEPOINT. The new Sportage and Amanti etc are proof of that, BUT Honda on the other hand is not an inexpensive or niche market brand. They are every bit as bread and butter as Toyota and their domestic competition as well. Even Toyota has had SOME exciting hits throughout the years, but Lexus seems to suffer from the same problem Honda does.

They thrive almost exclusively on word of mouth and historical reliability as well as some of the best fuel economy in the industry. Unfortunately this leaves them without much motivation to do anything radical or extraordinarily special and you have pretty much a homogenization of blandness from the cheapest Civic to the Acura RL, and not so much as one single V8 engine anywhere in their lineup. I cant really tell them to change anything because theyre doing fine the way they are, but damn are those cars boring.

I dont think Porsches are boring by the way, they locked on to a design that is instantly recognizable and there is nothing wrong with that.

Playdrv4me
11-05-05, 05:10 PM
I voted Saab. It's typical of GM to purchase these car companies like Lotus, use some of their technology in other cars, and then starve them into oblivion or hardly invest in them at all in the way of new product.
Saturn imo is on the rise, and money is flowing into that division for new and exciting product.

Correct, Saturn was off the radar for a good while there, but they have some real promise in the Aura and Sky and a couple of other up and coming vehicles.

Ralph
11-05-05, 05:19 PM
Correct, Saturn was off the radar for a good while there, but they have some real promise in the Aura and Sky and a couple of other up and coming vehicles.

Now if only GM would invest in a new and more exciting engine for the Sky. The Ion engine with a name "Ecotek" is hard to get excited about in any vehicle, especially when the Solstice has only 7 more hp than the new 2.4 L Ion Ecotek.

Although I'm sure the Solstice/Sky will have good performance due to it's light 2800 pounds, which ironically is the same weight as the Ion!

ben72227
11-05-05, 05:28 PM
Now if only GM would invest in a new and more exciting engine for the Sky. The Ion engine with a name "Ecotek" is hard to get excited about in any vehicle, especially when the Sky has only 7 more hp than the new 2.4 L Ion Ecotek.

Although I'm sure the Sky will have good performance due to it's light 2800 pounds, which ironically is the same weight as the Ion!

I'm sure they will give the Saturn the same upgraded engine they're giving the Solstice GXP...a turbocharged intercooled 240HP Ecotec...:cool2:

OH, and Saab is definately the most bland car GM has. The exteriors just don't do ANYTHING for me, and I just wonder why people would buy such a sterile car...

urbanski
11-05-05, 05:30 PM
Theyre boring, and bland. Sure theyre sports cars, but theyve been the same forever. And it still looks like a strretched out beetle. And now they know it and built a 4x4 a sedan and a soon wagon, they are so boring, the facelists always look the same. The most extreme one was when they went to Boxster style headlamps on the 911. Then they decided it was too estreme and changed them back!!!

Porsche are bland, when compared to a similar Maserati or TVR

1992 911: http://www.fast-autos.net/porsche/92turbos2.jpg

2005 911: http://www.automotorclub.com/articole/the-car-of-the-year-2005/porsche-911.jpg

The 2005 looks like a slightly smoothed out 92!but those HIPS!!

urbanski
11-05-05, 05:32 PM
GM should do like Mallett and throw an LS2 into the Sky/Solsitce

mccombie_5
11-05-05, 05:39 PM
but those HIPS!!

Arent as good as the haunches on a Jag....

heh heh heh

Really, i just have this issue with porches. The 944 Turbo was good, the 928 was good

They were very hard to find faults with, even with a magnifying glass.

The 911s can be spotted wthout getting in it. From 50 yards away.

Caddy Man
11-05-05, 05:48 PM
I think Toyota, because think about it, honda at least has the s2000, they have a pretty edgy new civic, they have the accord 2 door which can look aight, but toyota dosnt really have anyhting nice. Its same old same old.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-05-05, 06:18 PM
I voted Saturn, because if you look at the entire Saturn line from 1990-2006, many of them were slow, ugly 4 cylinder economy cars. But now they're starting to change :)

Ralph
11-05-05, 06:33 PM
I voted Saturn, because if you look at the entire Saturn line from 1990-2006, many of them were slow, ugly 4 cylinder economy cars. But now they're starting to change :)

Toyota used to make some exciting cars like the Supra, or the MR2 at least, but since they were killed off, they lost interest in my book by simply building mundane cars that appeal to the masses for profit purposes.

ben72227
11-05-05, 07:25 PM
Hmmm, BUT one could argue that Toyota does build exciting cars, just under a different brand name - Scion...Even though Scion is supposed to be a separate brand, like Lexus, it appears to me (at least in Little Rock) that Toyota and Scion are almost always sold by the same dealer and share the same showroom...:hmm:

CVP33
11-05-05, 08:17 PM
Kia and Hyundai. I have a reoccuring nightmare where I'm driving a lowered Kia Sephia with a huge wing, spinner hub caps and "BLING-MOBILE" plastered accross the windshield. Here's the worst part I'm cruising this car down Woodward with a bumper sticker depicting the kid pissing on a Ford and GM logo. I'm soooo screwed. :banghead:

ShadowLvr400
11-05-05, 08:21 PM
Me, I'd vote GM/Chevy. Aside from the Vette, not a single interesting piece of hardware in the line. Even the trucks don't have much special. The SSR is an oddball, but the Silverado SS is weak.

Jesda
11-06-05, 12:09 AM
Scions excite me about as much as Ron Jeremy eating navy beans in a clown suit. Theyre weird and unappealing in my opinion. To each their own, I guess.

Toyota's trucks are solid, but they killed their sports cars. Meanwhile, Hyundai is sprucing up the Tiburon. The upcoming shark might even be RWD!

As an Infiniti owner, I naturally voted Lexus. :P

Ralph
11-06-05, 12:16 AM
Scions excite me about as much as Ron Jeremy eating navy beans in a clown suit. Theyre weird and unappealing in my opinion. To each their own, I guess.


I'm with ya on that one! I couldn't stand them when I saw them at Toyota...

I respect Ron Jeremy much much more!

davesdeville
11-06-05, 06:32 AM
Hmmm, BUT one could argue that Toyota does build exciting cars, just under a different brand name - Scion...Even though Scion is supposed to be a separate brand, like Lexus, it appears to me (at least in Little Rock) that Toyota and Scion are almost always sold by the same dealer and share the same showroom...:hmm:

Scion? Exciting? Really?

The xA is a run of the mill econobox.
The xB is OK if you want a box, it's somehow fairly popular but there's nothing exciting about a box.
The tc doesn't have the balls to be considered exciting when compared with other inexpensive 2 doors.

Jesda
11-06-05, 07:57 AM
I have to defend Saturn and Saab. Saturn offers the Redline series with strong performance and good looks (well, at least the Vue is good looking). The upcoming Sky and Aura are hot cars.

Saabs are turbocharged, rev-happy, light, efficient, and have offer sporty looks without going over the top (like a ski jacket).

After Lexus and Toyota, I would vote for Acura. The RL is a snoozer like the last. The NSX is gone, leaving the RSX as its only sports car. The TSX has a cheap interior. The MDX is a glorified minivan. I still dont understand this brand.

ShadowLvr400
11-06-05, 09:24 AM
NSX is gone? No it isn't. Noone ever realizes it's still being made, but it is, and there are plans for an update, especially in the motor.

Toyota is working on their new Supra btw...
Audi's got their LFA in the prototype phase
Lexus has a luxo supra under construction too
Saturn's redline with strong performance?? Compared to what, a Yugo? The Ion redline I drove was kinda fun, but not a strong performer, more like the desperate to please puppy.
Infiniti is mostly luxury spins of their parent company, but they're still pretty nice. The G35 is pretty nice actually.
Nissan's got too many decent cars to be bland. The 350 Z is pretty aggressive on its own, and now, they're working on a new GTR to come across that pond. The new skyline is suspected to be a coupe, powered by a twin turbo 6 pushing 450.
I think if you want boredom, you have to look more at the us lines. Here's a line everyone could take a nap on, Buick. Bland cars, weak motors, *snore*

Jesda
11-06-05, 09:30 AM
No, its gone.
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000340050195/
The new Honda supercar will be a new vehicle with a new name.

Regarding the Redline, it is indeed a good performer, especially for an urban SUV. You have to compare performance in relative terms within the vehicle's class. They didnt build it to compete with the Z06.

Blackout
11-06-05, 09:58 AM
Where's the option for Chevy?

mccombie_5
11-06-05, 09:58 AM
As for Honda, I dont think they are bland at all.

Toyota yes, Nissan is a go between, especially here, because they still have the ageing Almera in the Focus section of the market, and the Primera has become the cheap minicab of choice.

Honda set out from the outset to make cars. Toyota and Nissan did not. they started with household appliences.

IMO, Toyota and Porsche, again.

However Ford also. Again in this country they have a limited line up.

Only two sedans

Night Wolf
11-06-05, 10:35 AM
Honda is by far the blandest automotive maker on the planet. Dont go throwing Kia and Hyundai at me because I know youre thinking about it... but the truth is they try hard to keep the product fresh and exciting IN ITS PRICEPOINT. The new Sportage and Amanti etc are proof of that, BUT Honda on the other hand is not an inexpensive or niche market brand. They are every bit as bread and butter as Toyota and their domestic competition as well. Even Toyota has had SOME exciting hits throughout the years, but Lexus seems to suffer from the same problem Honda does.
They thrive almost exclusively on word of mouth and historical reliability as well as some of the best fuel economy in the industry. Unfortunately this leaves them without much motivation to do anything radical or extraordinarily special and you have pretty much a homogenization of blandness from the cheapest Civic to the Acura RL, and not so much as one single V8 engine anywhere in their lineup. I cant really tell them to change anything because theyre doing fine the way they are, but damn are those cars boring.
I dont think Porsches are boring by the way, they locked on to a design that is instantly recognizable and there is nothing wrong with that.

yeah, but this is what happens when Honda decides to think outside their box...

http://carazed.com/blog_art/honda_ridgeline_01.jpg

http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/hippest.vehicles/03.honda.element.f34.500.jpg

SpeedyArizona
11-06-05, 10:39 AM
However Ford also. Again in this country they have a limited line up.

I disagree, Ford has taken many risks and all have paid off very well (Ford GT, 2005 Mustang), they have a very innovative lineup of vehicle. And you can't beat their trucks!

Ford accually has 5 sedans, the Focus, Fusion, Taurus, Five Hundred, and Crown Victoria.

SpeedyArizona
11-06-05, 10:41 AM
yeah, but this is what happens when Honda decides to think outside their box...

HaHa, that's true! Look at the grille on the truck, it looks like a nerd with braces, very bad impersonation on the Ford Explorer Sport Trac and the Element IS a box!

mccombie_5
11-06-05, 10:50 AM
I disagree, Ford has taken many risks and all have paid off very well (Ford GT, 2005 Mustang), they have a very innovative lineup of vehicle. And you can't beat their trucks!
Ford accually has 5 sedans, the Focus, Fusion, Taurus, Five Hundred, and Crown Victoria.

I live in the UK THats why i said "in this country"

In the US all is well.

Sandy
11-06-05, 11:47 AM
I am the one vote for Acura. With the demise this year of the NSX, they have little to excite. Actually I was really looking for Mercury, but it wasn't listed.
Quick, name Mercury's MiniVan____
Their Sport Ute______
Their rebadge Ford Escape Mini UTE______
Name ANY Mercury outside of a Grand Marquis for 2005/2006_____

See ?

Playdrv4me
11-06-05, 11:58 AM
I think Toyota, because think about it, honda at least has the s2000, they have a pretty edgy new civic, they have the accord 2 door which can look aight, but toyota dosnt really have anyhting nice. Its same old same old.

I dunno... the S2000 is ok, the new Civics are still just boring econoboxes in my book. They are styled nicely, but still dont offer enough "extras" to stand out from the rest of the economy car pack in my book. I actually prefer the Chevy Cobalt SS to the Honda Civic Si, which is a rare thing.

Toyota at least has some historic nameplates, like the Land Cruiser which can get about anybody excited, and that all new Avalon which may not stand out because of looks, but to me boring encompasses the thought and technology in the product as well, and the Avalon is basically a V6 Lexus with a bargain pricetag and every creature comfort you could possibly want in the Limited model. It therefore counteracts its boring exterior by becoming a living room on wheels basically, all your buddies will be so amazed by the fact your car has the key sensing system when you walk up to it, cools the seats if you so desire and can measure the distance to the car in front of it when cruising, theyll forget how boring it is. This is different from Lexus because yes Lexus offers the same features and more, but charges the kind of price you would expect to pay for them, where the Avalon is dirt cheap.

mccombie_5
11-06-05, 12:41 PM
I am the one vote for Acura. With the demise this year of the NSX, they have little to excite. Actually I was really looking for Mercury, but it wasn't listed.
Quick, name Mercury's MiniVan____
Their Sport Ute______
Their rebadge Ford Escape Mini UTE______
Name ANY Mercury outside of a Grand Marquis for 2005/2006_____
See ?


Ummmm....errrrr......hmmmmm

Montego?

It took me five minutes to remember the name :p

ben72227
11-06-05, 01:08 PM
Its funny how that Honda Ridgeline supposedly was the number one selling truck for a month (or maybe it still is number one?). I wasn't sure if that was foreign trucks or ALL trucks though...

It's a good truck, we know its reliable since its a Honda:rolleyes:, whenever Honda decides to develop a V8, they'll pretty much dominate, since, afterall, Honda is first and foremost an engine company...:)

Night Wolf
11-06-05, 03:28 PM
Its funny how that Honda Ridgeline supposedly was the number one selling truck for a month (or maybe it still is number one?). I wasn't sure if that was foreign trucks or ALL trucks though...

It's a good truck, we know its reliable since its a Honda:rolleyes:, whenever Honda decides to develop a V8, they'll pretty much dominate, since, afterall, Honda is first and foremost an engine company...:)

TRUCKS do not have a transverly mounted V6 that makes more hp then torque, that are uni-body with 4 wheel independent suspension, with FWD/AWD with limited towing capability, no off road abality etc...

the Ridgeline is NOT a truck... don't the ad of it going sideways in the dirt in slow motion fool you.

Night Wolf
11-06-05, 03:29 PM
I voted Saturn, because if you look at the entire Saturn line from 1990-2006, many of them were slow, ugly 4 cylinder economy cars. But now they're starting to change :)

ummm....

back in 1990 (first year?) that is why GM even made Saturn... to fight Honda/Toyota/Nissan in the small, slow, ugly 4 cylinder econo cars... although I never thought Saturns, even the first ones... were all that ugly...

Night Wolf
11-06-05, 03:32 PM
Hmmm, BUT one could argue that Toyota does build exciting cars, just under a different brand name - Scion...Even though Scion is supposed to be a separate brand, like Lexus, it appears to me (at least in Little Rock) that Toyota and Scion are almost always sold by the same dealer and share the same showroom...:hmm:

I can't hold back the excitement....

http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2004/scion.xaxb/04.scion.xb.f34.500.jpg

This is just an ugly duckling...

http://www.autointell-news.com/News-2003/August-2003/August-2003-2/Scion-xA-2004-side-110.jpg

This.... I'll honestly say I really like....

http://www.newsargus.com/jims-cars/photos/2004/09/Scion-tC-228.jpg

mccombie_5
11-06-05, 03:35 PM
I can't hold back the excitement....
http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2004/scion.xaxb/04.scion.xb.f34.500.jpg
This is just an ugly duckling...
http://www.autointell-news.com/News-2003/August-2003/August-2003-2/Scion-xA-2004-side-110.jpg
This.... I'll honestly say I really like....
http://www.newsargus.com/jims-cars/photos/2004/09/Scion-tC-228.jpg

The third one is really nice!

What is it??

Night Wolf
11-06-05, 03:38 PM
I will say Hyundai and Kia are perfectly fine for what they were made... in fact the new Elentra is quite interesting... the back looks like a pinched in the middle ~2001 Accord with dual exhaust (only because I was behind one today) ... for the bargin price... decent car!

Chevy has some... I don't like the new Malibu styling... the HHR is cool, and the Silverado has always been sweet, there are others as well tho...

How can we forget about Suzuki and Isuzu? hows that for not very exciting?

but Honda to me never has anything new or cool, Nissan is somewhat, I like styling of some cars (NOT the new Maxima) Toyota... I have always had an open spot in my heart for Toyota... dunno why though... but i really like the ~2002 Tacoma...

Night Wolf
11-06-05, 03:44 PM
The third one is really nice!
What is it??

the Tc

you can get it fully loaded for like $18k

I must admit, I like the front, the sides and the back as well as the interior. the only 2 things i do not like... the front and rear over hangs are soooo short (then again, aren't all new cars?) and if you look at the 3rd break light, the actual light isn't the whole length of the lens... so it kinda looks cheap.

weather its the fastest cheap Coupe or not... throw a manual transmission in it and I'd be happy.... *if* I was getting a (newer) car next, that would be high on my list... but I am getting a Jeep... and if I wasn't getting the Jeep it would be a '95 Eldorado ETC.... but as far as new, cheap cars go... the Tc is nice.

http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/06/sciontc05_01.jpg

http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2005/scion.tc/04.scion.tc.int.500.jpg

http://www.dpccars.com/photos/06-08-04-02-Scion-tC.jpg

mccombie_5
11-06-05, 03:49 PM
I like it even more seeing that manual shift, i would drive that!

ALl overhangs, i agree are very small on new cars, but this is a small car.

Jesda
11-06-05, 04:57 PM
About 3000 Ridgelines sold per month.
About 7000 Titans sold per month.

The Ridgeline is the worst-selling vehicle in its class.

ShadowLvr400
11-06-05, 05:21 PM
Ok, people are going to match the Ridgeline vs the Titan? I have to say, it's not quite right... The Titan is actually closer to the 2500 series trucks from the states, and the Ridgeline is more like the 1500 series. They're not designed as powerful tow rigs, but more like kinda fun, midsized pickups. With AWD, I think it could handle the mild trails that a number of owners might give the truck, and with all the hidden compartments, it could be a useful pickup for camping trips, etc. Even the Titan is only an upper mid-sized/full sized truck, limited by towing capacity. (If you want to tow, you get a deisel, period. Plenty of gas motors hit (Dodge) 325 horse, very few meet 610 ft lbs of torque. Next to none will tow 15,900 lbs. 360 horse 650 torque Chevy, 16600 towing. 325/570 15,000 Ford.)

ben72227
11-06-05, 05:29 PM
Yeah Jesda, you're comparing Apples and Oranges. The Ridgeline competes against the Tacoma, Frontier, and the Colorado...and the F150.

The Titan is more of a Tundra, Silverado, Titan competitor...

Besides, its hard for Honda to sell trucks when GM is practically GIVING THEM AWAY through incentives...GM should play by the rules and sell their cars at full market value...:annoyed: But I guess they can't since nobody in their right minds would actually want to BUY a GM truck...at anywhere NEAR MSRP...

Playdrv4me
11-06-05, 05:30 PM
If the Tc had Xenon lights and a Navigation system, Id hit it.

ShadowLvr400
11-06-05, 05:35 PM
Oh, as for the Element, you know, it's an ugly lil cuss, though I recall it having rubberized interior optional, so you could hose it out, which would be useful for big pet owners, or animal showers/breeders. Or anyone carrying around an outdoor kids sports team, etc...



On the Scions, they're oddball cars for college age kids. Inexpensive, a ton of customizable parts from factory, and oddly cute eccenttric. I for one, like the xB, and the tC. The xA isn't quite as nice IMO. The xB is great for college kids with sizable activites, like the garage band, the sports team member, bicyclist, etc. It's room, efficient, and kinda cool. I actually want an xB... Or a tC, but actually, the xB more. I know, odd, but I think it'd be a nice second car to have. I remember it was roomy inside.

ShadowLvr400
11-06-05, 05:36 PM
Play, with Scion, you get Scion's custom maret, in house. You can likel get both through Scion/Toyota. Can get optional blowers, subs, mp3, etc.

mccombie_5
11-06-05, 05:37 PM
I know, odd, but I think it'd be a nice second car to have. I remember it was roomy inside.

Is ANYTHING more roomy than a Fleetwood?

ShadowLvr400
11-06-05, 05:41 PM
Would you believe, in that xB I felt like I had more space than I do in my Fleetwood? I sat kinda upright, a little like a van, but felt HUGE inside... It's part of why I want one.

mccombie_5
11-06-05, 05:47 PM
Interesting. Actually, my wifes Vauxhall Astra, IMO, feels like it has more room than my Vectra, which is a bigger car.

Im not sure why.

http://www.ukcar.com/road_tests/vauxhall/astra/interior.jpg

Maybe its a small car thing.

http://www.ukcar.com/road_tests/vauxhall/vectra/V6cdx/big/office2.jpg

ShadowLvr400
11-06-05, 06:08 PM
Scion xB
Front Headroom (in.) 46.10
Rear Headroom (in.) 45.70
Front Legroom (in.) 45.30
Rear Legroom (in.) 38.00
Front Shoulder Room (in.) 48.60
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 50.00
Front Hip Room (in.) 50.60
Rear Hip Room (in.) 50.60


96 Fleetwood
Standard Seating 6
Optional Seating No data
Front Headroom (in.) 38.70
Rear Headroom (in.) 39.10
Front Legroom (in.) 42.50
Rear Legroom (in.) 43.90
Front Shoulder Room (in.) 64.30
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 64.00
Front Hip Room (in.) 59.20
Rear Hip Room (in.) 59.80



Fleetwood's bigger, but the Scion still felt roomy and comfortable.




However, 30/33 mpg on the scion, 17/26 combo on the Fleetwood. 1.5 L with 103/101 vs 5.7 with 260/330

Ralph
11-06-05, 06:12 PM
Scion xB
Front Headroom (in.) 46.10
Rear Headroom (in.) 45.70
Front Legroom (in.) 45.30
Rear Legroom (in.) 38.00
Front Shoulder Room (in.) 48.60
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 50.00
Front Hip Room (in.) 50.60
Rear Hip Room (in.) 50.60


96 Fleetwood
Standard Seating 6
Optional Seating No data
Front Headroom (in.) 38.70
Rear Headroom (in.) 39.10
Front Legroom (in.) 42.50
Rear Legroom (in.) 43.90
Front Shoulder Room (in.) 64.30
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 64.00
Front Hip Room (in.) 59.20
Rear Hip Room (in.) 59.80



Fleetwood's bigger, but the Scion still felt roomy and comfortable.

Ya but the problem is people over 20 will be pointing at you and laughing as you drive a Scion.:shhh: ;)

I find it similar to the HHR, too much like a model car. The proportions are all wrong on the Scion IMO. Too tall, tires too small, it looks like if you turned sharply, the whole thing will tip over worse than a Samurai.

mccombie_5
11-06-05, 06:13 PM
Interesting figures...

SpeedyArizona
11-06-05, 06:17 PM
Yeah Jesda, you're comparing Apples and Oranges. The Ridgeline competes against the Tacoma, Frontier, and the Colorado...and the F150.

The Titan is more of a Tundra, Silverado, Titan competitor...


The Ridgeline is nowhere even close to the F-150, the F-150 competes more with the Dodge Ram 1500, Silverado 1500, etc. The F-150 is a full size while the Ridgeline is more mid-size.

Jesda
11-06-05, 06:21 PM
Ok, people are going to match the Ridgeline vs the Titan? I have to say, it's not quite right... The Titan is actually closer to the 2500 series trucks from the states, and the Ridgeline is more like the 1500 series. They're not designed as powerful tow rigs, but more like kinda fun, midsized pickups.

Titan might be too big and powerful to compare.

But 6000 Nissan Frontiers were sold in October, with sales off only 7.8% compared to Oct 04.

Night Wolf
11-06-05, 06:32 PM
Yeah Jesda, you're comparing Apples and Oranges. The Ridgeline competes against the Tacoma, Frontier, and the Colorado...and the F150.

The Titan is more of a Tundra, Silverado, Titan competitor...

Besides, its hard for Honda to sell trucks when GM is practically GIVING THEM AWAY through incentives...GM should play by the rules and sell their cars at full market value...:annoyed: But I guess they can't since nobody in their right minds would actually want to BUY a GM truck...at anywhere NEAR MSRP...


!?!?!??!?

The F150 is in the same class as the Silverado and Ram... the Tacoma, Fronteir and Colorado are all light 1/4 ton trucks, as well as the Ranger.

the Titan is a REAL truck, full frame, RWD/4WD and a V8... It is around the same as a Silverado 1500/RAM 1500/F-150... these are all 1/2 ton trucks. NOT 2500 series.

Notice I didn't mention the Tundra... the Tundra while bigger then the Tacoma, is still not a "full size" truck like the RAM, Silverado or F-150, you *could* compare it to 1/2 ton trucks..... but it lacks in size/power.

The Ridgeline isn't even a truck, so it can't compete with them. Nobody that is in the market for a Silverado Z71 is going to buy a Ridgeline, and nobody in the market for a Ridgeline is going to buy a Silverado Z71.

Think about it...WHO is going to buy a Ridgeline? no self respecting DIY home owner is gonna pull up to Home Depot to load up sheets of ply wood in his Honda Ridgeline (would they even fit?) no big business contractor is gonna hit the dirt on a construction site in his Honda Ridgeline.... and on the same note, no soccer mom is going to drive their kids to soccer practice in a Honda Ridgeline either... thats what minivans and SUV's are for... soccer moms wont want to give up the enclosed cargo area for a wannabe pickup bed...

so who does that leave? it leaves die hard Honda people that won't accept the fact that Honda can't make a REAL truck, so they buy the Ridgeline so they can bring big screen TV's home, move a dirt bike or pick up a couch or something... yeah it owuld work, except this market is REALLY small, so small that the Ridgeline isn't selling. Most people realize that domestics are the real trucks, accept that, and drive one.

Also, the Titan isn't a 2500 series truck, 2500 series AKA 3/4 ton are more for heavy duty work or pulling.... while 1/2 ton are for lighter use or offroading and stuff. RAM/F-250/Silverado all have optional turbo diesel in 3/4 ton offerings... Titan does not.... it dosn't compare.

hell, the Ridgeline dosn't even compete with the Tacoma/Frontier/Colorado/Ranger/Dakota, all these are real trucks with V6/V8 engines... not mounted sideways.... all are RWD or 4WD, all have optional off road packages etc.... if I was going to buy a Tacoma TRD, I would NOT be considering a Ridgeline.

Funny with the Scion xB and the Element... they were made for the younger outdoor going kids....

yet most the people that I see driving them are in their 40's.....

SpeedyArizona
11-06-05, 06:33 PM
Here's which trucks compare:

Class I
________________________
Toyota Tacoma
Nissan Frontier
Mazda Truck
Ford Ranger

Class II
________________________
Honda Ridgeline
Toyota Tundra
Ford Explorer Sport Trac
Chevy Colorado
Dodge Dakota

Class III
________________________
Nissan Titan
Ford F-150
Chevy Silverado 1500
Chevy Avalanche
Dodge Ram 1500

Class IIII
________________________
Ford F-250
Ford F-350
Chevy Silverado 2500
Chevy Silverado 3500
Dodge Ram 2500
Dodge Ram 3500

Night Wolf
11-06-05, 06:43 PM
Here's which trucks compare:
Class I
________________________
Toyota Tacoma
Nissan Frontier
Mazda Truck
Ford Ranger
Class II
________________________
Honda Ridgeline
Toyota Tundra
Ford Explorer Sport Trac
Chevy Colorado
Dodge Dakota
Class III
________________________
Nissan Titan
Ford F-150
Chevy Silverado 1500
Chevy Avalanche
Dodge Ram 1500
Class IIII
________________________
Ford F-250
Ford F-350
Chevy Silverado 2500
Chevy Silverado 3500
Dodge Ram 2500
Dodge Ram 3500

For the most part this is true.... except....

the Tacoma/Frontier/Ranger/Mazda truck (aka Ranger) are the same class as the Colorado and Dakota.

The Tundra is above the Colorado and Dakota... that is what the Tacoma is for.

the Explorer Sport Trac isn't in the same category as the light duty (1/4 ton) or medium duty (1/2 ton) trucks.... same can be said for the Avalanche.... although that actually has a decent tow rating and such.

I wouldn't consider the Exploer Sport Trac and Avalanche... hell, throw the Ridgeline on there.... I woudln't consider them trucks... as in the pickup truck "truck" they are a different version of the crossover (aka modern day station wagon) except instead of, say, the Honda Pilot, where most of the chassis is shared with a car, in these casses, most the chassis is shared with a truck.

SpeedyArizona
11-06-05, 07:04 PM
I'd have to agree with you on the Ridgeline, Sport Trac, and Avalanche not being a regular truck. The Sport Trac and Avalanche are accually classified as SUV's on some sites.

My revised list of REAL trucks:

Class I
________________________
Toyota Tacoma
Nissan Frontier
Ford Ranger

Class II
________________________
Toyota Tundra
Chevy Colorado
Dodge Dakota

Class III
________________________
Ford F-150
Chevy Silverado 1500
Dodge Ram 1500
Nissan Titan

Class IIII
________________________
Ford F-250
Chevy Silverado 2500
Dodge Ram 2500

Class IIIII
________________________
Ford F-350
Chevy Silverado 3500
Dodge Ram 3500

Feel free to tweak it, but this is how I believe it should be.

Jesda
11-06-05, 08:58 PM
Accord. Stretched to make the Odyssey.
Odyssey. Enlarged to make the Pilot/MDX.
Pilot/MDX. Enlarged again to make the Ridgeline.

So its an Accord truck! Yay!

Kidding, sort of. :)

Night Wolf
11-07-05, 02:22 AM
I'd have to agree with you on the Ridgeline, Sport Trac, and Avalanche not being a regular truck. The Sport Trac and Avalanche are accually classified as SUV's on some sites.
My revised list of REAL trucks:
Class I
________________________
Toyota Tacoma
Nissan Frontier
Ford Ranger
Class II
________________________
Toyota Tundra
Chevy Colorado
Dodge Dakota
Class III
________________________
Ford F-150
Chevy Silverado 1500
Dodge Ram 1500
Nissan Titan
Class IIII
________________________
Ford F-250
Chevy Silverado 2500
Dodge Ram 2500
Class IIIII
________________________
Ford F-350
Chevy Silverado 3500
Dodge Ram 3500
Feel free to tweak it, but this is how I believe it should be.

that, is alot better!

only thing I would do is eliminate Class II all together... the Colorado and Dakota go with the Taco, Frontier and Ranger.... and hell, throw the Tundra in with the F-150/1500 RAM and Silverado.

other then that, IMO thats how I see the line up...

of course there are oddballs, like the new Isuzu pickup that looks to be like the Colorado/Canyon, but they claim is totally different... either way that gets thrown in with the rest of the light trucks.

Caddy Man
11-07-05, 02:25 AM
Accord. Stretched to make the Odyssey.
Odyssey. Enlarged to make the Pilot/MDX.
Pilot/MDX. Enlarged again to make the Ridgeline.

So its an Accord truck! Yay!

Kidding, sort of. :)
one could say the same about cadillac ;) Its all in the similiar design theme. The cts is stretched a bit to make the STS, the sts enlarged to make the SRX, chop the top of the srx and make it a 2 door, you got the XLR. Escalade and DTS are in there somwhere.

Night Wolf
11-07-05, 02:34 AM
one could say the same about cadillac ;) Its all in the similiar design theme. The cts is stretched a bit to make the STS, the sts enlarged to make the SRX, chop the top of the srx and make it a 2 door, you got the XLR. Escalade and DTS are in there somwhere.

Very true, its all the Sigma

and thats the reason why the SRX is no where even close to that list of trucks :)

Although I didn't think the XLR was Sigma.... is it?

but none of these modified car chassis turned wannabe trucks are..... trucks... they are just cars with more ground clearance because "I like being up high" and a sub par AWD system so soccer moms can drive safe in rain.... because we all know before AWD driving in rain was impossible :rolleyes:

the Escalade is a truck... well, an SUV... Tahoe/Yukon, so luxury SUV? either way atleast it has quality stuff (though I don't care for the AWD again) the DTS is the same car it's been since 2000... back when it was the DeVille :( and that is a totally different chassis then all the other cars as well.

Playdrv4me
11-07-05, 02:37 AM
XLR is Corvette Chassis... not Sigma.

Night Wolf
11-07-05, 03:15 AM
ah yes how could I forget :)

so in that case, the XLR shares no chassis with any other Caddy, and the SRX is still car based and definitly NOT a truck, or anywhere near it.