: Performance Programer 97 ETC??



CadillacSTS42005
11-03-05, 12:56 PM
The real deal or a joke if so why?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/90-02-Cadillac-ElDorado-Performance-Chip-Module-Kit-25_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33597QQitemZ80112169 25QQrdZ1

mcowden
11-03-05, 01:12 PM
The real deal or a joke if so why?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/90-02-Cadillac-ElDorado-Performance-Chip-Module-Kit-25_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33597QQitemZ80112169 25QQrdZ1

You're kidding, right? This is probably a resistor that connects to the IAT harness to bypass the IAT sensor itself. The resistor value is such that the PCM thinks the air is very cold, like -20 or something, so it increases the injector dwell time to add more fuel to make up for what it thinks is more dense air being drawn into the cylinders. A fuel increase doesn't buy you any more power without more air to burn it with. You can only burn so much fuel with a given amount of oxygen. Throwing any more fuel in there beyond about a 14.7:1 ratio is just wasting fuel. All it will do is decrease your MPG, probably reduce performance, and burn up the catalytic converter. Have you ever heard the expression "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is?" There are really no inexpensive performance increases for a Northstar. If you're hell-bent on mods, buy a Civic.

CadillacSTS42005
11-03-05, 01:27 PM
1st off never will buy an import. Secondly it was simple question and i figured it was bullshit but i figured it was worth a shot. Im not lookin for hell bent performance just an increase of my MPG and a lil bit more umph. You really should relax and not attack me for asking a simple question. It seems like your responce to anyone who wants performance is to go buy a Civic. If performance doesnt matter to you why dont you go buy a Topaz (no offence to anyone who has them)

Ranger
11-03-05, 03:18 PM
I would have to agree with Mcowden. Most likely a waste of money with false promises. I also agree with his analogy of it. I am sure you noticed, there are no bids on it. There really is not much you can do to improve the performance of the Northstar. It has been said that "all the low hanging fruit has been picked in the designing of it". After all, it does put out 1 hp per cubic inch, nothing to sneeze at.

auroradude
11-03-05, 07:09 PM
I wouldnt buy an import either. Hell i wouldnt take one if someone gave it to me.

But anyway yaeh man dont get anything off ebay. Everything is bullshit with em. Id say a good Magnaflow or Dynomax cat-back would be a GREAT choice for that performance tone and a little more free-flowing power. I noticed a little bit with my Dynomax setup. its really sweet sounding. The stock exhaust was very, very lame IMHO. Too quiet for a gorgeous car.

CadillacSTS42005
11-03-05, 07:33 PM
yea i love Aurora too. If i hadn't of found this ETC an Old Aurora would of been my next choice love the lines.

Eldyfig
11-03-05, 08:11 PM
I see no harm in posting a question like this to the forums. If anything, it could start some constructive conversation on items like this that companies try to market. Even though I do not believe it would help increase the performance of the North*, I would like to know how they claim it works. If you or someone else never asks the question, how would we ever know? I never even heard of the thing before. See...I learned about another gimmick being sold for increasing a car's performance.

Thanks CadillacETC1997.

By the way, your typing is getting better.:)

CadillacSTS42005
11-03-05, 08:25 PM
yea yea yea thanks for my spelling education lol

davesdeville
11-04-05, 05:42 AM
injector dwell...

Throwing any more fuel in there beyond about a 14.7:1 ratio is just wasting fuel. All it will do is decrease your MPG, probably reduce performance, and burn up the catalytic converter...

There are really no inexpensive performance increases for a Northstar. If you're hell-bent on mods, buy a Civic.

Wow, I haven't heard "injector" and "dwell" in the same sentance before :D

14.7 is stoichiometric but the best power is actually made with about a 12.5-13:1 air:fuel tatio. You're totally correct that a IAT resistor is the wrong way to go about it though.

Spray is cheap. Oh, and instead of saying buy a Civic, can you at least say buy a 'Stang or a GTO or something?

mcowden
11-04-05, 11:27 AM
Wow, I haven't heard "injector" and "dwell" in the same sentance before :D
14.7 is stoichiometric but the best power is actually made with about a 12.5-13:1 air:fuel tatio. You're totally correct that a IAT resistor is the wrong way to go about it though.
Spray is cheap. Oh, and instead of saying buy a Civic, can you at least say buy a 'Stang or a GTO or something?

Sorry for coming across a little harshly. I just get sick of the repetitve questions about performance when this stuff has been covered dozens of times before. I'll post a sticky that will hopefully help with the repetitive stuff. I stick with the Civic comment though because there are more mods available for those things, even though most of them do little or nothing. Love the "I'll never own an import" comment.

Best performance mod for the money: A Type-R sticker. 35 H.P. gain minimum. Add on the fuel line magnets, the Turbonater, Slick 50, and a K&N, and you'll have 100 H.P. and get such awesome gas mileage you'll almost never have to stop for a fill-up. Bolt on nitrous and a supercharger and you'll be flying past the top fuel funny cars with a mostly-stock Caddy...

CadillacSTS42005
11-04-05, 12:37 PM
Yea i understand but to my knowledge this product was never discussed so i thought id bring it to the forum to see what you guys thought. On a side note sorry about the Topaz comment, my parents used that on me when i kept burnin though tires in my Trans-AM. They said if i had a Topaz i wouldnt be able to go though tires like that lol. I really am good to my ETC i dont beat the shit outta it the fastest ive had it yet was 102 (i wanted to see it say triple digits in the DIC (ive done the mod that displays the mph in the dic as well as the coolant temp)).

tremor12
11-04-05, 07:40 PM
I wouldnt buy an import either. Hell i wouldnt take one if someone gave it to me.


What do you consider an import, exactly?

eldorado1
11-04-05, 10:41 PM
FYI - the resistor mod won't do anything but screw up your car. Here's why:

The computer needs to know the air temperature to calculate the air density involved with fueling calculations. So, an unsuspecting victim buys this "chip" (resistor), unplugs the air temp sensor, and plugs in the resistor. The computer instantly sees it as 20 degrees F outside. (In reality, it's 70 degrees F) Hmm... okay, denser air needs more fuel.

*PCM pours more fuel in*

Car warms up, and enters closed loop. The O2 sensor starts reading the exhaust, and detects a rich condition. The long term fuel trim starts cutting back on the fuel,

*PCM reduces fuel back to stoichiometric (14.7:1)*

You're now back where you started. If you floor it, it will use the long term fuel trim in it's calculations, and be (hopefully) no different than before you had the "chip" (resistor)

BUT, you really start to play havoc on your engine when it's not 70 degrees outside. Say you're sitting in traffic and now the air is 120 degrees... Now the long term fuel trim has to compensate for this, every time it changes. But it can only change so much, and that doesn't even account for when the computer isn't paying attention to the oxygen sensor (open loop, like during warmup) The air temp sensor was put in place to make changing the fuel trim unnecessary.

In reality, what you would want to do is reprogram the fuel map to a *leaner* condition, and advance the spark tables to make more power. All engines are different, and GM likes to make "safe" power. It's always better to err on the side of rich than lean, so they typically put WOT at 12.5:1 or less. I've seen 11:1 before. Most power naturally aspirated is made at 12.6-13:1. Unfortunately, for the 97, this is not an option. Actually for all cadillacs it's not an option. Proprietary engine management programming and what not.

Hope that helps, :stirpot:

haymaker
11-04-05, 11:04 PM
Nice post eldorado1.

CadillacSTS42005
11-04-05, 11:12 PM
much appreciated!!!

Trench
11-06-05, 12:43 AM
I was just reading the feedback from that seller and there is one remark saying "Awesome power, okay gas mileage, quick shipment, Thanks!"

He bought a resister..errr… “chip”, for an Aurora.

Although I have always disregarded these "chips" there is some info out there stating they do offer some increase in power. Now, if it's good for your catalytic converter is another story.

mcowden
11-06-05, 12:59 AM
I was just reading the feedback from that seller and there is one remark saying "Awesome power, okay gas mileage, quick shipment, Thanks!"
He bought a resister..errr… “chip”, for an Aurora.
Although I have always disregarded these "chips" there is some info out there stating they do offer some increase in power. Now, if it's good for your catalytic converter is another story.

Hey Trench - 2 hrs. SW of Chicago... Are you in Bloomington or Peoria? I used to live in Bloomington and I'd go back if I could.

Anyway, as eldorado1 eloquently detailed for us, the resistor basically just sets into motion a series of compensations that ultimately result in little or no benefit to performance. If they dump extra fuel in there, as may happen when intake temperatures are high, that unburned fuel can burn when it comes into contact with the hot catalyst surfaces. That will obviously make the catalytic converter run much, much hotter. They can glow red with the worst problems. The cat will not live long under those circumstances, and all that fuel being burned in the catalyst certainly isn't doing your mileage any good. It's probably detracting from engine performance as well. Try passing a emissions test with one of those in place. Even if they don't test the tailpipe gases, the resulting codes it will likely set won't make Mr. E.P.A. very happy... So in short, it certainly looks like a very bad idea. Thanks to eldorado1 for a great post.

eldorado1
11-06-05, 01:56 AM
Thanks to eldorado1 for a great post.

No problem. Next week's episode: Electric Superchargers :suspense: :D

Trench
11-06-05, 12:58 PM
No problem. Next week's episode: Electric Superchargers :suspense: :D
But bilge pumps are COOL

Hey Trench - 2 hrs. SW of Chicago... Are you in Bloomington or Peoria? I used to live in Bloomington and I'd go back if I could.
I'm maybe 40 minutes from Bloomington and an hour from Peoria. But one time I did make it to Peoria in 30 minutes. heh Bloomington is a really nice area, though.