: Upgrade Door Speakers HowTo w/ Pics



CadV
10-22-05, 05:17 PM
1) Ensure the manual lock knob (1) is in the unlock position.
2) Insert a flat-bladed tool into the top service notch to disengage the locking clip (2) located at the front of the manual lock knob (1).
3) Remove the manual lock knob (1).
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/asvfs/detail?.dir=b0f0&.dnm=daec.jpg&.src=ph

4) Remove the inside handle bezel (1) from the inner door panel in the following order: (I was able to do this by hand without a screw driver)
A. Hold the inside handle to the open position.
B. Insert a flat-bladed tool at the front lower corner of the bezel.
C. Pry outward on the bezel.
D. Remove the bezel from the inner door panel.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/asvfs/detail?.dir=b0f0&.dnm=e1a3.jpg&.src=ph

Watch out on the Front Door the unlock button has a plug that needs to be removed before sliding the cover out
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/asvfs/detail?.dir=b0f0&.dnm=b7ff.jpg&.src=ph

5) Insert a flat-bladed tool at the top of the trim cover and pry out to remove the cover. (I was able to do this by hand without a screw driver)
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/asvfs/detail?.dir=b0f0&.dnm=33cf.jpg&.src=ph

6) Remove the door trim panel screws (2).
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/asvfs/detail?.dir=b0f0&.dnm=ada9.jpg&.src=ph

7) Now you are ready to remove the door panels. I just grabbed the handle and gave it a good tug to pop out the snaps. Once you get the sides and bottom of the panel free just life up a tad on the handle and that should get the top unhooked. Be careful on the front door trim around the power mirrors.

Front Door;
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/asvfs/detail?.dir=b0f0&.dnm=792e.jpg&.src=ph

Back Door;
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/asvfs/detail?.dir=b0f0&.dnm=52d9.jpg&.src=ph

Front Door;
8) Remove gold screws to release 6.5" speaker
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/asvfs/detail?.dir=b0f0&.dnm=84c5.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/asvfs/detail?.dir=b0f0&.dnm=57b8.jpg&.src=ph
A. I had to remove the black mount to get more slack for the positive and negative wires.

9) Install new speaker
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/asvfs/detail?.dir=b0f0&.dnm=8986.jpg&.src=ph

Back Door;

10) Back speaker is 5.25", front mounted and part of the door panel
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/asvfs/detail?.dir=b0f0&.dnm=52d9.jpg&.src=ph

11) You will need a GM Harness Adapter so your not cutting your factory wire harness
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/asvfs/detail?.dir=b0f0&.dnm=d352.jpg&.src=ph
A. I bought this at Circuit City

12) Now put everything back together

Very easy install and I cannot believe how improved the sound is. I never realized how bad the factory speakers are until now.

Just in case you want to know I used Infinity Reference 6012i in the front doors and 5012i in the back.

urbanski
10-22-05, 06:03 PM
sweet! thanks

LV_V
10-22-05, 06:20 PM
Good stuff. Nice pics. Did you sound deaden the doors or door panels at all? Do still get loud off these new speakers (I assume the new speakers are 4 ohm, heard somewhere that the stock speakers are 1 ohm)? Is there any way you can measure the impedance of the stock speakers with a multimeter? Sorry for all the questions! Thanks for any response!

CadV
10-22-05, 06:38 PM
Good stuff. Nice pics. Did you sound deaden the doors or door panels at all? Do still get loud off these new speakers (I assume the new speakers are 4 ohm, heard somewhere that the stock speakers are 1 ohm)? Is there any way you can measure the impedance of the stock speakers with a multimeter? Sorry for all the questions! Thanks for any response!

Nope... Had I thought about it before I finished prolly would of been a good idea :) I even have some left over material :( Really easy to get the panels off I will do that next weekend. Speakers sound really good... The tweeters in front are a little over powering so I just shifted the sound to the back a turn and it evened everything out. The guy at Cicuit City told me that my tweeters on the Infinity's would not work because bose is 1 or 2 ohm but they work perfect. Nice sharp treble, voice and good bass even. If I am doing it right the speaker is showing 2ohm. Hopefully someone knows for sure.

Peet
10-22-05, 10:40 PM
You may be softly killing your amp by presenting a higher resistance. It needs to drive harder and will overheat. that is a possible downside.

If you really want to replace speakers and match Bose junk in impedence, go with Infiniti Kappa (2005 design). These are all very low impedence... I replaced all of my speakers in my bose setup in my Infiniti G35 - the difference is tremendous and I matched my ohms.

Best,
Peet

MN CTS-VETT
10-22-05, 11:52 PM
I am looking to match ohms with the existing stock speakers - Peet, did you buy the Infinity Kappas on-line? If so, where? I did a google search without much luck (lots of bogus search results).

CadV
10-23-05, 12:05 AM
You may be softly killing your amp by presenting a higher resistance. It needs to drive harder and will overheat. that is a possible downside.

If you really want to replace speakers and match Bose junk in impedence, go with Infiniti Kappa (2005 design). These are all very low impedence... I replaced all of my speakers in my bose setup in my Infiniti G35 - the difference is tremendous and I matched my ohms.

Best,
Peet

I have never seen it happen but have been warned about it before. Has anyone ever burned up an amp because of different ohm speakers? If it will burn my amp up I will need to get the Kappas and ebay the reference.

CadV
10-23-05, 12:07 AM
I am looking to match ohms with the existing stock speakers - Peet, did you buy the Infinity Kappas on-line? If so, where? I did a google search without much luck (lots of bogus search results).

Ebay is always the cheapest when it comes to speakers.

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&fstype=1&catref=C6&satitle=INFINITY+KAPPA++62.7i&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&a6=-24&a31302=-24&a14=-24&a10244=-24&gcs=1550&pfid=1908&reqtype=1&pfmode=1&alist=a6%2Ca31302%2Ca14%2Ca10244%2Ca3801&pf_query=INFINITY+KAPPA++62.7i&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&fstype=1&from=R10&satitle=INFINITY+KAPPA++52.7i&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=&a6=-24&a31302=-24&a14=-24&a10244=-24&gcs=1550&pfid=1908&reqtype=1&pfmode=1&alist=a6%2Ca31302%2Ca14%2Ca10244%2Ca3801&pf_query=INFINITY+KAPPA++52.7i&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=

Peet
10-23-05, 02:08 PM
Those are the speakers! They sound great, are very well priced and just drop right in.

FWIW, usually the heating problem is when the speaker ohms are lower than what the amp is designed for... for example, a 2 ohm speaker on an 8 ohm amp. The reverse causes volume issues (4 ohm speaker, 2 ohm amp). But you can never be too safe.

Oh yea, I bought mine on ebay - the seller was latha112 .. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZlatha112 I highly recommend him. I bought one ebay auction and have bought from him seperately since (as well as referring others).

heavymetals
10-23-05, 02:20 PM
You may be softly killing your amp by presenting a higher resistance. It needs to drive harder and will overheat. that is a possible downside

I don't know where you got this info, but it is WRONG.:thepan:

Lower impedances cause more current flow. (E=IR)

Following your logic a short would be the best loading, and an open circuit would be the worst.

Obviously not true.

ctsvett
10-23-05, 03:15 PM
I put this info on the FAQ... But I did put a warning about matching OHMs on the speakers just to let eveyone know of POSSIBLE problems (low volume, or blowing an amp, whatever!).

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/doorspeakers/index.html

NICE writeup!

Reed

Peet
10-23-05, 05:38 PM
yea yea yea... heavy, like I said, SOMETHING LIKE THAT... and corrected it in the follow up. Either way, mismatched impedence sux.

Higher current flow, lower current flow - no matter either one is bad when it goes past the parameters of the driver.

LV_V
10-23-05, 05:44 PM
Higher impedance does not effect the driver, only the amp; it will actually allow the amp to run cooler and with less distortion. The ONLY ill effect would be a lower overall volume produced because of the volume knob topping out on the cd player/nav unit.

heavymetals
10-23-05, 06:31 PM
Sorry to be a techno nazi Peet!:dammit:

I spent a long time in the audio industry before I went into errorspace.

Thanks for the pics and instructions on the speaker replacement Cad V, but one question.

Why did you use a 6 inch rather then a 6.5 inch in the front?

ntechnic
10-23-05, 08:25 PM
Ohms aren't the only consideration (and yes, higher ohms are easier on the amp), speaker efficiency is important. If you have a 2 ohm speaker, and a 4 ohm speaker, and the 2 ohm is rated at 86 db sensitivity and the 4 ohm is rated at 92 db, you'd have just about equal volume (pressure level) output.

I'm rating for my speakers to arrive, I'm going to modify the back panel to use 6.5" so that it's the same in all four doors.

CVP33
10-23-05, 08:43 PM
I think I just found my next upgrade!

Can someone confirm that the parts numbers listed are OK. I don't want to find a post later saying "oops this will blow your amps", etc.

If these directions are good, I'm a go!

B Hoth
10-23-05, 09:30 PM
Hey Peet I'd like to go ahead and get those Kaapa's. Can you put me in touch with this guy direct or do I need to go thru the site. I'm jst tryig to get you any perk for putting me on to the speakers. $24.00 dollar shipping from Texas to me seems a tad excessive however. Great price thats listing for them however. PM me if you like or let me know here. Thanks!

louiefl99
10-23-05, 09:30 PM
If you really want to replace speakers and match Bose junk in impedence, go with Infiniti Kappa (2005 design). These are all very low impedence... I replaced all of my speakers in my bose setup in my Infiniti G35 - the difference is tremendous and I matched my ohms.

Back in March I contemplated doing the same to my CTS using Infinity Kappa, possibly the component speakers. On their website there was a link for application help. When I asked them about impedence on this line their e-mail said:

"All of our Kappa and Reference loudspeakers including the component series are 4 ohm impedance loudspeaker including the individual drivers for the Kappa 50.5cs."

I'm encouraged by the above post and may revisit this. Great post, thanks for the write-up.

CVP33
10-23-05, 11:03 PM
Just bought all the speakers off eBay. $188.86 delivered for all 4. Can't wait to install them. Thanks again for the info'.

CadV
10-23-05, 11:24 PM
I put this info on the FAQ... But I did put a warning about matching OHMs on the speakers just to let eveyone know of POSSIBLE problems (low volume, or blowing an amp, whatever!).

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/doorspeakers/index.html

NICE writeup!

Reed

Hey Reed only one problem on the page you created. Step 7 the back door pic is actually of the front door just with the speaker removed showing the wires. The back door speaker picture is actually the picture on step 10. Also because of the possibility of burning out my amp I took out the speakers from the article and I ordered Infinity Kappa 63.7i and 52.7i to match the 2 ohm stock amp.

CadV
10-23-05, 11:27 PM
Sorry to be a techno nazi Peet!:dammit:

I spent a long time in the audio industry before I went into errorspace.

Thanks for the pics and instructions on the speaker replacement Cad V, but one question.

Why did you use a 6 inch rather then a 6.5 inch in the front?

Infinity 6012i is a 6.5" speaker

ctsvett
10-24-05, 01:09 AM
I updated it.. Let me know if anything else is still wrong.

Thanks!

Reed

CadV
10-24-05, 01:19 AM
I updated it.. Let me know if anything else is still wrong.

Thanks!

Reed

Could you change the part at the very end about what speakers I used to Infinity Kappa 63.7i and 52.7i. I would hate one of the guys to buy the reference and then burn their amp up on my recommendation :(

Everything else is perfect. Let me know if anything is unclear Reed I have my panels off again waiting for the Kappa's. I can take more pictures.

heavymetals
10-24-05, 03:28 AM
Infinity 6012i is a 6.5" speaker

My mistake, I should have looked it up.

Thanks for the pics and the details.:thumbsup:

ntechnic
10-24-05, 06:25 AM
Regarding ohms and amplifiers, here's a way to think about it.

Look around for an electrical outlet. See the two slots? If there's nothing plugged in, the two wires in there are far enough apart that no sparks jump the gap. No current flows. This is just about infinitely high ohms of resistance. Very high ohms number, little or no current flows.

If you took a flat bar of copper, bent into a "U" shape and inserted it into the plug, what would happen? You'd blow a circuit breaker due to the high current flow. And if you didn't have the breaker, you'd melt wires in your wall. This is just about perfect 0 (zero) ohms, no resistance, so lots and lots of current flow.

So, the closer to zero the ohms, the more current demanded, the harder it is on the wires and components of an amp/system. The closer to infinity the ohms, the easier it is on the system.

Almost any system can handle the standard 4-8 ohm range of standard speakers. I did have a 1989 Camaro that had weird 12 ohm speakers, putting 4 ohms speakers in there would have made for a real demand on the amp. But that's the oddball exception.

Look at high-end mono subwoofer amps. All of them can handle 4 ohm loads, all but the cheapest crap ones can handle 2 ohm. But only the higher end, the best ones, are rated for 1 ohm. And to get down to 1 ohm you either need two dual voice coil speakers, or four single coil ones.

If the Bose amps are truly rated down to 1 ohm, then no worries, they're very well built and you can't possibly hurt them with any replacement speaker, they just don't make 1 ohm speakers in that size. Which is why I doubt that the Bose speakers are 1 ohm, 2 ohm maybe. But even that's good, it means the amps are decently built (or at least above averagely robust).

You won't hurt the amps/system with higher ohm speakers. You will lose volume, unless the replacement speakers are very efficient. Look to the "Sensitivity" rating. If it's 91 or 92 dB/volt, you're fine, and then it's a matter of taste as to whether you like what you hear.

The Infinity Kappa 60.7cs is 2 ohm and 95 dB sensitivity, these suckers play loud. You'll probably find that the volume levels from the doors will tend to overwhelm the A-pillar tweeters.

The Infinity Reference 6010cs are 4 ohm and sensitivity is 92 dB. These will NOT blow your amps, they'll be kinder to them then the Kappas in fact.

The same ratings hold true for the Kappa and Reference co-axial speakers as for the component systems listed above.

Personally, I think a set of Reference 6010cs's with just using the bass speaker and not the tweeter is a really good replacement. I also prefer the sound of the Reference textile tweeter over the more brittle metal tweeter of the Kappa.

ntechnic
10-24-05, 06:34 AM
One last thing to note about coaxial or two-way speaker replacements. These have crossovers to split the frequencies between the two speakers. This puts a crossover downstream of another crossover (Bose's). This can cause some signal loss/degradation. Probably insignificant and below the hearing threshold, but just thought I'd point it out.

All depends on how the crossover slopes interact, and I don't know what Bose's scheme is.

B Hoth
10-24-05, 12:16 PM
Just a note. Does anybody know the specs on our power from the radio and the amps located in the trunk. ( It looks like an amp on each side panel of the trunk)

CVP33
10-24-05, 06:35 PM
Could you change the part at the very end about what speakers I used to Infinity Kappa 63.7i and 52.7i. I would hate one of the guys to buy the reference and then burn their amp up on my recommendation :(

Everything else is perfect. Let me know if anything is unclear Reed I have my panels off again waiting for the Kappa's. I can take more pictures.

Damn! Too late. I already ordered the 62.7i's. So am I screwed or what? Can someone please let me know. Feel free to PM me if you wish.

CadV
10-24-05, 07:25 PM
Damn! Too late. I already ordered the 62.7i's. So am I screwed or what? Can someone please let me know. Feel free to PM me if you wish.

Your good those speakers are 2 ohm and the amp is 2 ohm. That post was in regards to the 6012i and 5012i Reference speakers which are 4 ohm. I got the Kappas in today and you can really hear the difference between them and the reference.

CVP your going to love the Kappas trust me :)

CVP33
10-24-05, 08:19 PM
Oh thank god! These are on the way 52.7i's and 62.7i's. Went to Circuit City tonight to buy the connector kits, $9.99 for two. Not bad. They had some Infinity Reference Speakers there. I asked if they carried Kappas and the guys said no those are real high end. The funny part was theres were more than I paid off ebay with shipping included. Can't wait to get these in!

CVP33
10-26-05, 06:46 PM
EASY AS PIE! $189 for all four speakers, $9.99 for the connectors and only 60 minutes from start to finish. Directions are impeccable thanks to CADV! And I do mean impeccable. Every detail is spot on including the warnings.The difference is well....................LOUD! Much better reproduction no distortion until you're at the highest (unbearable to me) levels. I know these are two ways but the sound is definitely richer and fuller. I give this my Golden Woody Award. The second such award bestowed to a forum member in my over 2,000 posts. Be honored but keep your distance. :p

My B&M short shifter arrived today too. James @ Lindsay will be handling that though.

LV_V
10-26-05, 07:29 PM
Did you all just leave the factory A-pillar tweeters connected and running as normal even after you installed these 2-ohm Infinity speakers in the doors? Any issues there yet?

ntechnic
10-26-05, 11:53 PM
I wouldn't mess with the A-pillar tweeters unless you're upgrading the whole system. The crossover for the Bose system is upstream of the door speakers, the door speakers are NOT being sent the frequency range sound system. Depending on the crossover frequencies and slopes, the co-ax tweeters in the Infinity's may or may not be generating much sound.

If you were to just disconnect the A-Pillar tweeters, without changing the Bose crossover, you may end up with the door tweeters clipping off the sound signal at 1, 3, or 5 kHz.

Basically, the Infinity speakers are acting as improved mid-ranges.

ntechnic
10-27-05, 11:58 PM
Did my car today, friend of a friend's install shop, but I did the work.

First, you do NOT need to throw away the black adapter, nor do you need to buy the GM harness part. Here's what you do:

Unplug the wires were the fitting is held on the black plastic adapter.

Do NOT remove the speaker (gold screws) from the black plastic round housing, instead remove the four screws (bolt heads) that hold the black plastic adapter to door.

Once you have the adapter and speaker out, remove the speaker screws and remove the speaker.

You will need to use pliers to close the gap on the spade terminal connectors after you remove the Bose speaker, Bose's are really thick.

Get your replacement speaker close to the housing, and put the spade terminal connectors on.

Bend the terminals slightly so that they are parallel to the edge of the magnet, don't bend them far enough to ground them against the magnet.

They will now fit nicely into the adapter housing. Screw the speaker to the housing, and then screw the housing to the door.

My wife's SRX is getting the same treatment tomorrow, I'll take pictures of what I'm talking about.

CVP33
10-28-05, 08:13 PM
ntechnic,

I didn't need the adapters for the front only the rear door speakers. How did you handle that? I must be honest the connectors snapped right in with no issues so I really didn't look to see if there was another way.

chris

D148L0
10-28-05, 08:45 PM
Why installing a 2-way speaker where there was a one-way?

If the V system is like other cadillac-bose ones, where each channel receives a certain frequency range you are pretty much wasting one tweeter. It would be smarter to get a high quality mid-range speaker.


That being said, this is a very useful thread. Good job, CadV

CadV
10-28-05, 10:58 PM
ntechnic,

I didn't need the adapters for the front only the rear door speakers. How did you handle that? I must be honest the connectors snapped right in with no issues so I really didn't look to see if there was another way.

chris

He may be saying that the front doors already have an adapter and he used the ones in the front on the back. I wanted to avoid messing anything factory up including cutting up tape etc. Personally the adapter was worth it for me because I can swap the stock back in easily and no one would know the difference.

CadV
10-28-05, 11:06 PM
Why installing a 2-way speaker where there was a one-way?

If the V system is like other cadillac-bose ones, where each channel receives a certain frequency range you are pretty much wasting one tweeter. It would be smarter to get a high quality mid-range speaker.


That being said, this is a very useful thread. Good job, CadV

I don't know much about speakers crossovers etc. The Kappas come with two inputs I am assuming one for the tweeter and one for the mid. It has a silver box that has + - in and two sets of + - out (to the speakers). When I hooked everything up I listened to the tweeter and the mid playing with the audio adjustments to make sure I was getting everything with the speaker. From what I heard everything was working. Like I said I don't know much about car audio but the tweeters sounded like they were working to me.

How about you Chris did they work for you?

D148L0 no problem I am glad you guys found it useful. I got power mirror removal instructions from James Pollack with Lindsay Cadillac and it just so happens to explain how to remove the door panels. Guy on the board said he got his speakesrs upgraded so I figured I would give it a shot and put together instructions because quite a few guys showed interest. The door panels are a easy to get off when I got my Kappas it took 30 minutes to get everything hooked up.

ntechnic
10-29-05, 04:11 AM
Bose crosses over at 6,000 Hz, most Infinity speakers crossover at 3,500 Hz. If you install the Infinity crossover (the box with one input and two outputs) with component speakers, you're putting a crossover into either the <6,000 Hz line (if you use the door speaker wires) or the >6,000 Hz line (if you use the A-pillar wires). Either way, you are losing some frequency response, unless you eliminate the Bose crossover, then you're cool.

Using 2-way Infinity's in the door (either Reference or Kappa, they both crossover at 3,500 Hz) you effectively end up with a three way speaker. Well, four way actually.

100 Hz and lower frequencies are fed to the subwoofer.
100 - 3,500 Hz is fed to the Infinity 2-way's woofer.
3,500 - 6,000 Hz is fed to the Infinity 2-way's tweeter.
6,000 Hz and up is fed to the Bose A-Pillar tweeter.

This actually sounds very sweet, in both my CTS-V and the wife's SRX. A very full, rich sound. I swapped the Reference and Kappas back and forth in our cars. Interestingly, the Reference sounded better in my car, and the Kappas in hers.

With the Reference's 4 ohms and the Bose Tweeter's 2 ohms, an interesting effect happens up front. At any given volume setting, the Bose tweeters sound louder compared to the door speakers than either the stock speakers or the Kappas. This raises the sound stage. Stock, or with the Kappas, you hear most of the sound from the door, about the height of your knees. With the Reference's, the sound stage sounds higher, around the dash, which is really nice in the V. The sound stage was fuller, and seemed more like a live or "in the studio" feel. Leaving the DSP in Normal, and boosting the Bass setting a bit, with basically flat (middle point) Mid-range and Treble on the head unit, the sound is terrific.

I think the reason the Kappas sounded better in the SRX has to do with the much larger interior volume. In the CTS-V, the Kappas pretty much overwhelmed the Bose tweeters in the pillar, and the sound all came from the doors. But the Reference spread the sound vertically, in a very pleasant way. Of course, the Kappas sound awesome, and you could eliminate the Bose tweeter and who'd care? With or without the Bose tweeter they sound great. There's no loser here, in the V they both sound great. For an SRX, I'd only recommend the Kappas.

CVP33
10-29-05, 01:53 PM
ntechnic,

Great explaination. I'm glad I read that. I believe you've explained why the Infinity speakers make the sound so much more full. I also tuned down the treble after the install as CadV was dead on. It was just too much high range. After that the sound is very nice. I was contemplating a trunk mounted sub, but honestly after this install the sound is about where I'd want it. There's a more pronounced low-mid up front and I really didn't want any more low, low bass.

thebigjimsho
10-29-05, 06:16 PM
I'm rating for my speakers to arrive, I'm going to modify the back panel to use 6.5" so that it's the same in all four doors.For what purpose, if I may ask? Overall mid-bass response? Personally, the JL Audio amp I may get will have a much lower output for the rear channels since they shouldn't be all that important except for rear fill. Unless you want to increase the amount of lower mid volume, why bother with all that work?

CVP33
10-29-05, 11:11 PM
For what purpose, if I may ask? Overall mid-bass response? Personally, the JL Audio amp I may get will have a much lower output for the rear channels since they shouldn't be all that important except for rear fill. Unless you want to increase the amount of lower mid volume, why bother with all that work?

Sure beats installing the headers 3X's. Also, why not? It sounds better! Me likey.

thebigjimsho
10-30-05, 01:28 AM
You misunderstood my statement. I understand replacing the front speakers. But for audiophiles, you typically want emphasis on front soundstage with rear speakers being used for only fill. Since the member I quoted seems to be an audiophile type, I was curious why he would go through the trouble of modifying the rear speakers to enlarge to a 6.5" speaker when a similar 5" will match fine.

CVP33
10-30-05, 09:09 AM
Ahh, my mistake. Good question.

LV_V
10-30-05, 03:46 PM
Do you think it would be possible to fit the Kappa 6x9 2-way behind the front door panel if I replace the factory black plastic speaker mount with some MDF rings?

CVP33
10-30-05, 04:09 PM
LV V,

I suggest taking the door panel off and checking that out. I don't recall anything being in the way in that area of the door. They're are amazingly easy to take off. I was worried that it would be a hassle to line everything back up to ensure a proper remounting but it's virtually idiot proof.

urbanski
10-30-05, 04:14 PM
LV V,

I suggest taking the door panel off and checking that out. I don't recall anything being in the way in that area of the door. They're are amazingly easy to take off. I was worried that it would be a hassle to line everything back up to ensure a proper remounting but it's virtually idiot proof.
that means I'd mess it up :p

CVP33
10-30-05, 04:16 PM
that means I'd mess it up :p

Did I ever tell you about my 3M clear bra install? Goes on in 3 frustrating, head bashing hours. But can be removed in just 15 seconds of anger! :histeric:

D148L0
10-30-05, 04:18 PM
Unless you want to increase the amount of lower mid volume, why bother with all that work?

Why?

You are asumming that bigger speakers = more volume.

In a sound quality mindset, the relevance of a speaker's diameter is determined by the frecuency range you plan to send to it.

Power handling is secondary.

And even more, using a higher power handling speaker with the same amplifier will result in less volume, not more.

Ntechnic, those were great posts.

lawfive
10-31-05, 12:33 AM
So... which are the speakers to get? 62.7i or 63.7i?

LV_V
10-31-05, 02:48 AM
I'm ordering the 692.7i and 52.7i right now. The rears will obviously fit but I hope I can get the 6x9 speakers to fit in the front with a little modification (only MDF rings I hope!! but we'll see...). Still deciding what to do in the trunk. I removed my 12" free-air sub a while ago and have been running with no sub for too long. I'll keep everyone posted on the 6x9 fitment and post pics when I'm done, of course.

ntechnic
10-31-05, 04:03 PM
Big Jim is right, the reason I was going to use the 6.5" in the back was my kids, I sometimes shift the fader all the back and my wife and I ignore their music (We don't allow headphone use in the car). But Big Jim is right, typically you only want a little fille on the rear, or surround when watching a DVD.

I decided against it and went with the ease of 5.25" bolt in.

ntechnic
10-31-05, 04:07 PM
LV_V, you will have to trim a LOT of the panel for a 6x9 to work in the front door. The opening is only about 5" (enough for the effective area of a 6.5" round). If you don't trim the panel opening, you'll have weird sound with lots of reflection and interference within the panel. Especially since you'll have to use a 6.5-6x9 adaptor to mount the speaker, and will place the speaker deeper into the door than the stock Bose adaptor which brings the speaker right to the grill.

I'm putting up a web page with a few pics, I'll post here. One of them shows the inside of the panel, there is very think plastic that you'll have to trim, and you'll have to remove the entire stock grill cover too.

thebigjimsho
10-31-05, 10:15 PM
ntechnic, that's a good reason. Occupied kids are usually good kids. I probably won't even run 2 ways in the rear doors. The more I look at it, the more I think I'm doing a Dynaudio 2 way in front and a single Dynaudio driver in the rear door with an Image Dynamics 10" run off a JL Audio 500/5.

Which reminds me, does anyone know the size of the Bose tweeters in the A-pillars??

Also, LV_V, it's a waste of time tinkering with 6x9s. The highest quality speaker manufacturers don't bother with oval drivers unless it's a lesser line for factory drop-in replacement. A good quality 6.5" woofer will give you just as much bass, if not more, than almost any 6x9. I can just about guarantee you that going through that effort with a 6x9 will not only not be worth it, but it may be a negative experience.

ssmith100
11-01-05, 08:29 AM
Bigjim,

Once you figure out the input signal for the 500/5 let me know. The JL clean sweep will convert it but you have to use it's volume control for the volume. That unfortunately doesn't interest me.

Shane

lawfive
11-01-05, 12:13 PM
I believe that if you cross connect the quantum flux capacitor with an Illudium Q36 explosive space modulator, you could use the warp field generator as a power flow anti-attenuator. That should allow you to match input signal levels. I think.

ctsvett
11-01-05, 01:29 PM
only with 1.21 gigawatts..

Reed

ssmith100
11-01-05, 02:52 PM
Typical response from lawfive :histeric:

Shane

thebigjimsho
11-03-05, 12:46 PM
Bigjim,

Once you figure out the input signal for the 500/5 let me know. The JL clean sweep will convert it but you have to use it's volume control for the volume. That unfortunately doesn't interest me.

ShaneYou don't need a Clean Sweep. It would be great to have an optimal setup with SQ being the primary objective from the head unit all the way to the speakers but car audio manufacturers have gotten a lot more flexible these days.

Do we have line level outputs? If so, get some line level/RCA converters and run 'em into the amp. The JL also has a swicthable input to go from low to high voltage input. If we have RCA outputs, just direct connect. The sub section allows you to have independent input or use the front input signal or the full input signal. An independent bass control is available.

ssmith100
11-03-05, 02:17 PM
Bigjim,

The problem is the only outputs we have are out of the factory Bose amplifier. The input signal to the Bose amp is on the data bus line and is not crackable at this time. You can take the signal out of the Bose amp and go to the 500/5 but it won't be a clean signal. The Bose amp has the front doors, rear doors and subwoofer outputs crossed over and Eq'd. Audio Control makes an LC8 that will take all three signals, convert them, and give you a full range output signal. The only problem being that of all the Audio Control equipment I have used in the past it is quite noisey.

Shane

thebigjimsho
11-03-05, 02:24 PM
Bigjim,

The problem is the only outputs we have are out of the factory Bose amplifier. The input signal to the Bose amp is on the data bus line and is not crackable at this time. You can take the signal out of the Bose amp and go to the 500/5 but it won't be a clean signal. The Bose amp has the front doors, rear doors and subwoofer outputs crossed over and Eq'd. Audio Control makes an LC8 that will take all three signals, convert them, and give you a full range output signal. The only problem being that of all the Audio Control equipment I have used in the past it is quite noisey.

ShaneOuch.

lawfive
11-03-05, 06:11 PM
Got my 63.7s, 52.7s, and wiring harnesses on order. :bouncy: Someday I'll maybe get more esoteric and electronic-ish but probably only after Shane and Jim chart the course and tell me what to do.

ssmith100
11-03-05, 06:20 PM
Lawfive,

I let Urbnski con me into helping him replace his subwoofer next Friday before our Houston meet. I forgot to tell him what I charge an hour:lildevil:

Shane

lawfive
11-03-05, 06:26 PM
Make sure Urby gives you lots of forum brownie points, too. Those seem to be popular these days for some damned reason.

I replaced the Bose sub with a Kicker Comp 10 and an MX amp a while back, just a quick and dirty out & in. When I do the door speakers I'm gonna also have to put a pot somewhere up front to control the sub... Thought I could do it just with the audio controls in the radio, you know, get the bass level right for whatever station I'm listening to. Works, but then the friggin commercials come on with hip-hop sound tracks that separate the fillings from my teeth.

ssmith100
11-03-05, 08:03 PM
This is a good location. Going to put Urb's here like mine.

Shane

ntechnic
11-04-05, 07:09 AM
As promised, here's a web page with photos and some notes and instructions. May be helpful as supplemental info to the already excellent info in this thread.

http://www.novustechnic.com/cadillac/speaker_web/index.htm

ctsvett
11-04-05, 12:26 PM
can I mirror that on the FAQ?

Reed

ntechnic
11-04-05, 09:25 PM
Sure, it's my server, so it will stay there for a long time.

I'll add the rear door photos this weekend.

B Hoth
11-07-05, 01:14 AM
How about some help on the sub. I'd like to plug and play. Do i need to stay with the 2 ohm/dual voice coil 10 inch set-up?(Alpine and Kicker make one) or can I go with a 4 ohm unit with dual voice coil and just plug into the factory hook up. The stock unit is paper cone and about 3 inches deep, I need the trunk space so a box is not an option? I could sure use a heads up! Installed the Infinity Reference Components up front(including tweeters) and Pioneer Premier 5.25 mids in back. The sound is clean and crisp. Ineed to upgrade without the big cost of sub and amp. I'm not even sure it's possible to add seperate amp into the existing system.

ntechnic
11-07-05, 06:47 AM
I have added detail photos and instructions to my webpage that now cover the rear door too. Same link as post #66 above, just more on the page.

ntechnic
11-07-05, 06:51 AM
I haven't tackled the subwoofer yet. Is it dual voice coil? I thought it was single.

We'll need a low ohm, sensitive 10" that is rated for free air. Have to research more.

B Hoth, how did you remove the front tweeter? Please let us know!

B Hoth
11-07-05, 08:18 AM
There tricky little suckers. They pop out by fishing a smooth probe. (I used a small awl ) You need to ease the bottom of the little covers forward to the cieling as your puling them out to get them to pop out. They will resist this procedure, but with persistance and steady pressure, I got them to pop out. They apparrently are held in by being very snug and have 2 little tabs at the bottom that keep it in place with what is nothing more then a open hole. Tougher too is getting a 1 inch tweeter to go back in the holder. I unfortunatley had to use electrical tape that I wrapped around the outside of the tweeter to make it fit snug in the holder, then a little around the inside of the holder to keep it secure. You'll see what I mean as the new tweeters are smooth on their sides and the holder has three little tabs on the inside that clip on the stock ones. I was to chicken to cut off the tabs and wedge them another way. The multiple kits the came with the Infinity References will fit the hole, but you would need to spray them interior color to match. ( I prefer they remained near invisible) Plus the outline from the old cover leaves an impression on the post that you would see with the new cover in place. You'll see what I mean, a pain but worth the effort as the audio high's are now a whole new level of performance. Let me know about an open air sub with the 2 ohm/2 voice coil dilema. I'm hoping a 4 ohm dual voice coil high sensitivity sub will work. Keep me posted to your results on the search. :alchi:

ntechnic
11-08-05, 07:45 PM
I'm swamped with work and have to halt playing right now.

I'm still researching the sub, haven't come across a great, stand out free air sub that is efficient enough for stock Bose amp, not yet.

Thanks for the info on the tweeters, I was wondering about the housing, glad to know that keeping it on the A-pillar (hate those "changed housing imprint marks on fabric"!) in stock housing is possible. Great job!

B Hoth
11-08-05, 09:29 PM
Purchased the Infinity 1042w Infinity sub, it has 2 4ohm voice coils, sensitivity at 91db, frequency 25Hz - 400Hz, RMS 250 watts/1000 peak. I'm hoping to split the wire harness (stock unit) to plug right in to the new sub. I'll carefully see what I get. I don't know if the base will tight enough with out adding an enclosure to the deck, but we shall see!

wildwhl
11-27-05, 06:02 PM
Just a question...

I've read this thread all the way through, and nowhere did I notice that anyone actually verified the Bose amp as being 2 ohms/channel - only speculation.

Has someone acutally verified this? If so...I have a great idea for a nifty little plug and play subwoofer upgrade ;)


Also - any idea on the maximum depth for the front or rear midbass speakers without interference?

ssmith100
11-27-05, 08:49 PM
Factory Bose amp is in my mind 2 ohm's per channel. Depth wise in the front and rear doors is about 4 to 5 inches. You can do just about anything. My JL's in the door fit without any problems. I've got the 6 1/2's (4 ohm JL) running off the Bose amp and the are considerably quieter than the 2 ohm Bose.

Shane

wildwhl
11-27-05, 09:12 PM
Shane -

Am I safe to assume that your JL's in the door are <90 db efficiency as well?

Basically...I'm considering some door speaker upgrades (currently considering Boston components @ 3 ohm) and want to learn what I can before proceeding. I've searched and read everything, and have no less than 3 different sub systems in my V to this point (currently a big box and big amp in the trunk)...but when the iPod interface goes in - so does some better sounding door mid-bass I'm thinking :D

heavymetals
11-27-05, 09:30 PM
I ordered these for the front:JBL P652S 6.5" Two-Way Shallow Mount Woofer

These for the rear: JBL P552 5 1/4" 2-way Loudspeaker

wildwhl
11-27-05, 09:43 PM
I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here...but basically am figuring from the pics I've seen a quality mid-bass would drop in and improve the factory Bose system.

I don't doubt Shane's findings about the crossover frequency (6khz) but it is odd to be that high (and Bose does a lot of odd schit). A 6 or 6.5" driver will naturally roll off much lower than that - usually somewhere around 3khz or 4khz, and that would seemingly leave a giant gap in the in-car response curve. Bose, of course, will just try to equalize the gap away...making a decent sound from a dropin that much more difficult.

I'm trying to find a pair of the 6.5" midbass drivers that Boston uses in their current Pro series (3 ohm impedance) to try out - without buying the entire setup with x-over and tweeter that I'll likely not use. Big pain in the ass to get the x-over inline properly with the Bose amp - if not impossible - and mount the tweeters in the A-pillar.

I do have some 4 ohm 6.5" drivers on hand - but they aren't very efficient (86db) and probably would suck in this application.

When do you plan to put the JBL's in Heavy?

heavymetals
11-27-05, 10:16 PM
I planned on installing a few days after they arrived.

I just got an email saying there is a problem with part of the order.:suspense:

RATS.

I like the specs on the drivers.:thumbsup:

heavymetals
12-06-05, 03:00 AM
Ok, got the speakers installed.

They sound much better then what was in there, but it became real obvious that the new subwoofer needs an amplifier assist.

Decided to boost the front and rear door speakers so I ordered a 4 ch amp for that to.

This is gonna get interesting.

DaveBlk
01-13-06, 12:04 AM
So in the end would everyone suggest overall the infinity 62.7i and the 52.7i speakers overall????:hmm:

4drvette
05-22-06, 02:26 PM
Anybody tried the Infinity Kappa Perfect 10 D as a replacement to the stock Bose sub? It appears you can also configure it for free air up to 195 watts. Might be an alternative...:confused:

First Class Motoring
05-22-06, 03:30 PM
Try A.v.i Subwoofers I Used The Ss-250 In My Car With A 150w Amp And It Sounds Very Clean.