: Top Gear Video V vs. Audi S4



JOEYCTS-V
10-21-05, 08:57 PM
Does anyone know where I can get ahold of this video? I did a search but can't seem to remember where I saw it. I tried Top Gear's site but didn't see older videos like that. Or if someone has it on their PC and wouldn't mind sending it to me I'd appreciate it. If so PM me. Thanks in advance.

DrivingAmericanNow
10-21-05, 09:16 PM
I've been looking for the same thing, I hear the outcome is quite pleasing :lildevil:. Let's make this publicly accessible whenever (and whoever) gets it. :2thumbs:

BowenCT
10-21-05, 10:08 PM
http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/video/topgear.html

Geno
10-21-05, 10:43 PM
OHHH, what a bunch of dweebs. :rant2: :want:

They must be frenchmen in disguise. In their version of reality they beat the colonies at Yorktown.:helpless:

DrivingAmericanNow
10-21-05, 11:36 PM
Unbelievable. :thehand: It does everything they wanted it to do, better than they expected it could and they still find any reason they can to disparage it because it comes from the "colonies". I think you're right, they must be Frenchmen in disguise. :farting:

At the very least it's satisfying to say "WE colonial types" have never lost a war to the French...... :gun2:Battle of Hastings anyone???:rant2: $#&*! the Queen.

Dave's V
10-22-05, 01:13 AM
Yeah, they were looking for things wrong to say about the V. After it kicked the S4s ass on the track they had to resort to its price 45,000 pounds ($90k). But how many British cars do you see in the US? A few Jags and Range Rovers but nothing much. Could it be because of their reputation as having poor reliabiiity or just boring.

crowan
10-22-05, 01:28 AM
The video was great, but the hosts were total douche bags. Now I have another reason to love the V: it frustrates the hell out of the America haters in Europe. (We know envy when we see it.:D)

CR

willsctsv
10-22-05, 10:49 AM
How much is the $4 it beat?????? HMMMMMM???
It's more than the caddy. Looks like the caddy gives you more value for the $$, rice lovers!
Testing around the track in the rain, the V still kicked ass. i love this car!

trekster
10-22-05, 11:19 AM
I wonder how much they are going to praise the new z06. :rolleyes:

Blacksport350
10-22-05, 11:42 AM
Awesome!

And I don't know, as an avid Top Gear viewer, V owner, everything else owner and frequent visitor to the road course(not the drag strip). I have to say they are spot on with their comments of that car for that market.

Overpriced? Over there, it is a $45K Pounds(check the conversion rate on that guys). That will buy you some seriouse hardware. That is $79,000 USD for those that don't know the conversion rate.

Performance? It swats the S4 with Stig at the wheel who is a proffessional and even forces him to go 4 wheels of, this is an awesome outcome and a major embarrasment for the S4!

Time, it is obviously raining so no one is too worried about that.

Annoying beeps? Yup, the car has plenty of those!

Too big? I have always thought the V would be the PERFECT muscle sedan if it was only 15% smaller and 200lbs lighter. But it depneds on what you compare it to. In reality, it is stuck an a grey area between a small and a mid-size sedan(S4 v. S6, M3 v. M5 or C55 v. E55 ) making it tough to compare. Do you judge it against the M3 and S4 which it will kill or the M5 and E55 which still makes the V a value but also makes it look cheap which compared to the M5 and E55 it is.

Rough around the edges? Certainly, which is what makes this car so much fun!

Feels cheap? You bet, especially when compared with other cars over there that are $45K Pounds.

Anyway, the V is awesome, it is rough around the edges, it has its issues and is cheap in some areas. If they were wrong, we wouldn't be adding UUC shifters, Stealth V tunes, looking for a good suspension and blowing differentials to shreads every 5 minutes. :hmm:

Honest review of an awesome car!

Katshot
10-22-05, 12:00 PM
Again, I think you all are missing the point. They LOVED the performance, what they had a problem with was the styling and "cheap" overall feel of the car. Combine that with the sticker price and they come to the same conclusion athat many others have. Take away the Chevy power and the well tuned suspension and you're left with a cheap over-priced car.
I guess the CTS-V could be compared to cars like the EVO or STi. Cheap cars that the manufacturer has hot-rodded.
Personally, I agree with everything they said. How can you NOT be impressed with the performance of the CTS-V but.....I think the interior is cheap feeling and uninspiring, and the exterior is not much better. Add to that a terrible shifter and a couple other smaller idiocyncracies, and you basically have to agree with the Top Gear guys unless you're unable to be objective about the car.

Geno
10-22-05, 12:00 PM
Honest review of an awesome car!

Oh yah, if these jerks are anything they are honest. Give me a break!:thepan:

Did you see the dribble they did on the C6? The video on that was a carbon copy on the review on the "V", except they purposely over drove the C6. They had it drifting and slidding at every turn to get the slowest lap times possible. Hell, I could of got better lap times.... but then again if I was fair and honest like these guy I wouldn't want to do that, would I?:helpless:

Geno
10-22-05, 12:03 PM
Have any of you guys, that think this show is sooooo objective, seen a good review of an American car?

Katshot
10-22-05, 12:09 PM
What was bad? The objective stuff was all there. The performance was undeniable. It beat their European "benchmark" car even with their Top Gun driver driving it. The only things they trashed were mainly the "subjective" stuff like styling and quality "feel".

cguthrie
10-22-05, 12:30 PM
I thought it was a terrific review. I was very impressed with the performance on the track, vs. the S4.

I do think the interior is less than it needs to be, and it sounds like the shifter may be sloppy, and someone was clearly sleeping regarding the parking brake, but it still has to be the best performance sedan for the money.

Hopefully GM will fix some of the obvious stuff before I get my nickels saved. I'm almost afraid to do a test drive!

CG
99STS 119K

alcast082
10-22-05, 12:39 PM
Even thought they have an obvious bias against American cars the V couldn't be denied; its performance around the track coupled with its power shined through.
And yes it does need help with its interior and if I wa spaying almost 80,000 dollars I would complain but hey thats just an american way of overcharging the brits hahahahahahahahahahahaha

ace996
10-22-05, 01:26 PM
They count the time in the rain???????? Are they serious?

Luna.
10-22-05, 01:33 PM
They count the time in the rain???????? Are they serious?

LMAO. I thought the exact same thing.

willsctsv
10-22-05, 01:47 PM
My favorite quote" No to 60 in 4.3 seconds". Sounds cool with the British accent.
Overall it was not a bad review, Probably would have been more positive if they knew it was a 50K car and not a 79K car. I also, would not pay 79K for this car.

gothicaleigh
10-22-05, 02:03 PM
Pure comedy.

To their credit, they do admit to it outperforming the S4. Unfortunately, that seems to be the only bit of praise they allow.

Sure, the Monaro can be had with the same powertrain at a lower price, but it's also short two doors, now isn't it? If someone wants a sports coupe of course there are many other choices, but for those of us who prefer "saloons" though... ;)

The obviously absurd fast lap in the rain was the perfect ending.

I do like Top Gear. It's entertaining and I have a fetish for english accents I suppose... but even the europeans will admit that they like to tear apart American cars and play on american car stereotypes (some admittedly well deserved). No surprise then and actually a good review if you are familiar with the source.

Blackout
10-22-05, 06:37 PM
Have any of you guys, that think this show is sooooo objective, seen a good review of an American car?I guess you never saw the review for the Ford GT

Blackout
10-22-05, 06:47 PM
Overall I have been watching Top Gear for quite sometime now. They really don't test too many American cars. They did a test of the Crossfire which was hilarious to say the least. And they did a two way comparison of the Viper vs the C6 Vette and they didn't like either one of the cars but they seemed to want the Vette over the Viper. Now if the show was from America you don't think there would be a bias towards the US cars? But don't forget. The CTS-V was edging out the Audi S4, not by a huge margain except for the straights but over there they have the RS4 which is an even higher performance version of the car. The RS4 vs the CTS-V would most likely have a different result since they are more closely priced over in Britain.

Blacksport350
10-22-05, 06:53 PM
Have any of you guys, that think this show is sooooo objective, seen a good review of an American car?

Well, do you actually think that there is such a thing? :hmm:

The V and the C6 Z06(on the list) are the first American cars to get my attention and $$. Aside from that, I couldn't find any that stacked up well to the German competition. This all seems to be changing as the Euro continues to soar and the Amercan car builders realize that if they get with it, there is a large segment to take away from Mercedes, BWM and Audi. Not to mention Ferrari and Porsche in the case of the new Z06. I look forward to owning more American cars as they continue to get better! :duck:

Blacksport350
10-22-05, 07:00 PM
They count the time in the rain???????? Are they serious?

It was odd as they usually adjust the times. In any event, it flattened the S4 which was already timed so I guess the ultimate time is a moot point. Not to mention the recorded time at the Ring speaks for itself!

Blacksport350
10-22-05, 07:01 PM
I guess you never saw the review for the Ford GT

Yeah, and he even purchased one which is the ultimate praise!

Blackout
10-22-05, 08:09 PM
Yeah, and he even purchased one which is the ultimate praise!Especially coming from Jeremy who usually hates everything from America

Blackout
10-22-05, 08:09 PM
It was odd as they usually adjust the times. In any event, it flattened the S4 which was already timed so I guess the ultimate time is a moot point. Not to mention the recorded time at the Ring speaks for itself!And at the sametime if you look at their lap tests they put a (W) at the end of the time so they can designate the time being down while it was wet during the run

Katshot
10-22-05, 08:29 PM
It was odd as they usually adjust the times. In any event, it flattened the S4 which was already timed so I guess the ultimate time is a moot point. Not to mention the recorded time at the Ring speaks for itself!

I'm not so sure I'd say that. If you pay attention to the video, it looked to me like the Audi was all over the CTS-V in the corners. Matter of fact, as I recall, the V driver actually cut the Audi off at one point. Yeah, the V definately pulls the Audi in the straights but....

dqw1
10-22-05, 09:04 PM
The V bongs? lmao
I just wish I could drive like that but F the Brits.
We got a badass ride, warts and all. Had mine since late April, it's my daily driver and I can't wait to drive everyday. Damn I waste alot of gas making up reasons to drive.

CVP33
10-22-05, 09:04 PM
I don't care how well engineered and "sorted out" the chassis is a RWD, 4,000 lb. PIG on 245/45's will never handle as well as an AWD car. Yes I know the S4 weighs only 100lbs. less and yes I know it runs 235/40's. But if you could spread all the Caddy's HP and TQ to all 4 wheels through the turn it would be no contest vs. the Audi. Just watch in the video as Jeremy turns the GY's into molten goo on the exit of every corner. He's obviously over driving the corners, which is fine. We colonist never bother with the turns either. With 400hp under the bonnet you can power steer wherever you want to go! :thumbsup:

crowan
10-22-05, 09:47 PM
Again, I think you all are missing the point. They LOVED the performance, what they had a problem with was the styling and "cheap" overall feel of the car. Combine that with the sticker price and they come to the same conclusion athat many others have. Take away the Chevy power and the well tuned suspension and you're left with a cheap over-priced car.
I guess the CTS-V could be compared to cars like the EVO or STi. Cheap cars that the manufacturer has hot-rodded.
Personally, I agree with everything they said. How can you NOT be impressed with the performance of the CTS-V but.....I think the interior is cheap feeling and uninspiring, and the exterior is not much better. Add to that a terrible shifter and a couple other smaller idiocyncracies, and you basically have to agree with the Top Gear guys unless you're unable to be objective about the car.

This has to rank right up there with the most breathtakingly lame posts that I have seen on this forum in a long time. Here come the arm-chair experts, pontificating about cars that they don't own and have little or no seat time in. There is a big difference between being objective versus simply being uninformed. Where do I begin?



Take away the Chevy power and the well tuned suspension and you're left with a cheap over-priced car.


What? Take away the motor and the handling and and you have a garden variety CTS, for alot less money, that none of us who own Vs would buy. We bought the car because of what it is: a four door Corvette that that delivers more bang for the buck than cars priced $30 thousand more.You can't separate the V package from the overall vehicle. Try taking the AMG package away from your MB of choice and try to sell it at the AMG price. Same for the M series. Suddenly, they all become overpriced, offering nothing beyond the run-of-mill vehicles in their respective company's line-up. The price point for the V is part of what makes it an attractive alternative to the AMGs and Ms. Overpriced? Not in the USA.



I guess the CTS-V could be compared to cars like the EVO or STi. Cheap cars that the manufacturer has hot-rodded.


You've got to be kidding. As one who actually drives the V, I can say that it feels both solid, well built, and safe, with tremendous braking and handling capability and effective traction control. I do not consider the car to have a cheap feel at all, particularly at its price point. The V is an absolute joy on long road trips with comfortable seats, great mileage, and power galore. As for the interior, personally, I have no interest in looking at acres of wood grain, real or fake, everywhere I look. Other than a flimsy armrest (which I have replaced), I find the interior to be very much in keeping with the overall theme of the car.

Styling is a subjective matter, so it is no surprise that those who have purchased a V are happy with the styling. As far as the shifter, one can always do better with an aftermarket upgrade car, but I don't find the V shifter to be appreciably worse than any other stock shifter that I have driven.

Last but not least is the V's "fun factor" which is off the charts. It is simply the most fun that I have had behind the wheel in a car capable of being a daily driver; and I have owned some hot cars that cost alot more than the V. If the global economy causes the V's price to be inflated to rediculous heights in Britain, that is just another good reason to cross the pond to the colonies.

So Professor, go back to the Lazy-Boy, pick up another car magazine, and get some more "experience" for future posts. Take away the Chevy power and the well tuned suspension.....Give me a frikkin break.:nono:

CR

Blackout
10-22-05, 11:31 PM
Take away the Chevy power and the well tuned suspension.....Give me a frikkin break.:nono:
CRWell if you taek away those two things what do you have? A regular CTS. So your saying that because of a motor and a suspension that a $20k jump in price is worth it? You can get a fully loaded CTS for $11k less then a base model CTS-V. But I'm not even going to bother getting into it with you because judging by the your post it seems that everything else is inferior to the CTS-V so it would just be a waste of time.

Blackout
10-22-05, 11:33 PM
But if you could spread all the Caddy's HP and TQ to all 4 wheels through the turn it would be no contest vs. the Audi.:histeric: :histeric:

CVP33
10-22-05, 11:36 PM
:histeric: :histeric:

You're right! It already is no contest. I even made myself laugh after re-reading it. :histeric: :histeric: :histeric:

Blackout
10-22-05, 11:41 PM
You're right! It already is no contest. I even made myself laugh after re-reading it. :histeric: :histeric: :histeric:What I'm laughing at is the old ricer mentallity, "If we had this then we could beat that" coulda, woulda, shoula, but it doesn't.

lasstss
10-22-05, 11:59 PM
Actually its 28,800GBP. A bargain. If a brit bought the car here with their favorable exchange and even exported it, its still a bargain. I dont know where they got that price from but its bogus or the importer is robbing them.

btw, the front cradle suport structure on the V is for the V alone, not the CTS.

ace996
10-23-05, 12:10 AM
Mr.Blackout,
Perhaps you should make an opportunity to drive both CTS and CTS-V and make the determination if the increase in price is really justified. From my own experience, the CTS is a pretty interesting vehicle. If I was one to consider the CTS, I'd probably be looking at other vehicles with similar attributes...4 doors, good looks, sporty...well...sporty something, I don't quite know how to think that way so please forgive me for my inability to elaborate the thought. However, I am not one who would consider the CTS so let me explain why the V is worth the $11K more than a "loaded" CTS...
LS6. Nurburgring-tuned suspension. LS6. Brembos. LS6. LSD. And the most important component...LS6. Is this sinking in?
True, the V shares some DNA with the CTS...and that is very evident. The V also shares DNA with the C5 Z06, if you owned one that would be more than evident. Its that difference of DNA that makes the V evolve into much more than a CTS. And should you ever have an opportunity to experience the difference, you'd know just how off-base your last comment read.

-ace

crowan
10-23-05, 12:10 AM
Well if you taek away those two things what do you have? A regular CTS. So your saying that because of a motor and a suspension that a $20k jump in price is worth it? You can get a fully loaded CTS for $11k less then a base model CTS-V. But I'm not even going to bother getting into it with you because judging by the your post it seems that everything else is inferior to the CTS-V so it would just be a waste of time.

If I am in the market for a high-performance sedan, a "fully loaded CTS" is unlikely to be on my list of possibilities, nor should it be. Thank you all the same Mr. Bean Counter, but I'll just go ahead and spend the $11K and get what I want. There is no comparison between the two vehicles, and no price differential will bridge the gap. Why bother comparing the price of a car you want with the price of a car you don't want? The same would be true for a bimmer fan who wants an M3. He is unlikely to settle for a 325 just because it will save him a few bucks.

It has nothing to do with any car being inferior or superior. In fact I made no reference to the V being superior to any particular car. I said it represents great bang for the buck, which is indisputable. I was offering my personal experience with the V to someone who likes to opine about things he has little or no real-world experience with. Sorry if that does not compute with what exists in your imagination.

CR

Blackout
10-23-05, 12:18 AM
Performance sedan.......I'll take a 300C SRT-8 and have some money left over for mods. At the same token it looks like Cadillac needsthe Corvette to bail them out so they can make a performance car worth while. ie. Fleetwood's with the LT1

crowan
10-23-05, 12:30 AM
Performance sedan.......I'll take a 300C SRT-8 and have some money left over for mods. At the same token it looks like Cadillac needsthe Corvette to bail them out so they can make a performance car worth while. ie. Fleetwood's with the LT1

If that was your idea of a clever put down, you'll have to do much better than that. Most of us were led to the V because of its Corvette heritege, not by the Cadillac name. We consider it a bonus.

Enjoy your imaginary SRT-8. You can park it right next to your imaginary Viper.

ace996
10-23-05, 01:08 AM
Mr.Blackout,
Besides the SRT-8, and its very masculine automatic transmission, what is it that you want? You are searching for something...I can tell. I must give you credit that you don't bow-down on your knees and covet the very vehicle for which this forum is based...you come here for something else... What is that something else? Why are you here? I'm intrigued...22 years old, surely you have experience beyond your years....
What else do want?

CVP33
10-23-05, 01:30 AM
What I'm laughing at is the old ricer mentallity, "If we had this then we could beat that" coulda, woulda, shoula, but it doesn't.

No problem. I'd mistaken you for someone with intelligence. I won't make that mistake twice. And no not because you disagreed with me or because you dislike CTS-V's and their owners but because your retort is baseless and meant to get a rise out of forum members. I enjoy people with opinions. Especially ones based on facts. I enjoy the give and take of a good discussion. You sir are a waste of my time.

The internet can be a great equalizer as it breaks us down to our most basic tools sets. You have your ideas and words. My hope is that you at least look smart because your ideas and words are lacking. Be good. Looking forward to ignoring you.

Take care,

Chris

Late BrakeU2
10-23-05, 01:30 AM
http://www.world-challenge.com/news/05press195.html

Nuff said

Dave's V
10-23-05, 02:21 AM
Oh yes, the SRT 8 that gets worse mileage than some SUVs out there and practically all cars. But we all know you really want a high peformance Ford sedan. Too bad there isn't any.

MCaesar
10-23-05, 08:43 AM
If I am in the market for a high-performance sedan, a "fully loaded CTS" is unlikely to be on my list of possibilities, nor should it be. Thank you all the same Mr. Bean Counter, but I'll just go ahead and spend the $11K and get what I want. There is no comparison between the two vehicles, and no price differential will bridge the gap. Why bother comparing the price of a car you want with the price of a car you don't want? The same would be true for a bimmer fan who wants an M3. He is unlikely to settle for a 325 just because it will save him a few bucks.

It has nothing to do with any car being inferior or superior. In fact I made no reference to the V being superior to any particular car. I said it represents great bang for the buck, which is indisputable. I was offering my personal experience with the V to someone who likes to opine about things he has little or no real-world experience with. Sorry if that does not compute with what exists in your imagination.

CR

Why bother comparing the price of a car you want with the price of a car you don't want?

That sums it up. The two cars are so vastly different in performance I can't see how anyone would compare the two. The spread is much greater than between a M3 and a 330i with the Sport Package - much greater.

We are talking a performance difference more on the order of the difference between a non-turbo 3.8 1987 Regal and a GNX!

I would think that someone who bought a V is more likely to comparison shop with cars like a M3, C55, S4, or 300C SRT8 than a regular CTS.

MCaesar
10-23-05, 08:48 AM
Oh yes, the SRT 8 that gets worse mileage than some SUVs out there and practically all cars. But we all know you really want a high peformance Ford sedan. Too bad there isn't any.

Gas mileage? Are you serious? Who cares about gas mileage?

Anyway, that would not be the reason you pass on a SRt for V. It would be that you want a manual transmission, a lighter car, and slightly sharper handling. The tradeoff is that you have a much less roomy car and you have to deal with wheel hop that is non-existant in the Chrysler.

Katshot
10-23-05, 09:12 AM
"What? Take away the motor and the handling and and you have a garden variety CTS, for alot less money, that none of us who own Vs would buy. We bought the car because of what it is: a four door Corvette that that delivers more bang for the buck than cars priced $30 thousand more.You can't separate the V package from the overall vehicle. Try taking the AMG package away from your MB of choice and try to sell it at the AMG price. Same for the M series. Suddenly, they all become overpriced, offering nothing beyond the run-of-mill vehicles in their respective company's line-up. The price point for the V is part of what makes it an attractive alternative to the AMGs and Ms. Overpriced? Not in the USA."

Crowan,
Of course that's true, I wouldn't argue that point. The difference between the CTS-V and the BMW 'M' series/MB AMC's is that the BMW and MB start off with a class leading car whereas the 'V' starts off with a good, but not great one.
The point I was TRYING to make is the same one that Top Gear and virtually every car mag that's looked at the car has made....the CTS-V is a wonderful performer but it lacks in styling and overall quality feel. Admittedly, this IS fairly subjective stuff, and if you want to, you COULD write it off as just that. But IMO, I agree with the opinion, and just wish myself and others who try to make that point wouldn't get trashed for it.

ktills45
10-23-05, 10:53 AM
"What? Take away the motor and the handling and and you have a garden variety CTS, for alot less money, that none of us who own Vs would buy. We bought the car because of what it is: a four door Corvette that that delivers more bang for the buck than cars priced $30 thousand more.You can't separate the V package from the overall vehicle. Try taking the AMG package away from your MB of choice and try to sell it at the AMG price. Same for the M series. Suddenly, they all become overpriced, offering nothing beyond the run-of-mill vehicles in their respective company's line-up. The price point for the V is part of what makes it an attractive alternative to the AMGs and Ms. Overpriced? Not in the USA."

Crowan,
Of course that's true, I wouldn't argue that point. The difference between the CTS-V and the BMW 'M' series/MB AMC's is that the BMW and MB start off with a class leading car whereas the 'V' starts off with a good, but not great one.
The point I was TRYING to make is the same one that Top Gear and virtually every car mag that's looked at the car has made....the CTS-V is a wonderful performer but it lacks in styling and overall quality feel. Admittedly, this IS fairly subjective stuff, and if you want to, you COULD write it off as just that. But IMO, I agree with the opinion, and just wish myself and others who try to make that point wouldn't get trashed for it.

???

MB has a class leading car for.....? What exactly?

As I recall, the appeal of the MB was rock solid reliability. Gone now...The AMG variants all supply prodigious amounts of power, but are more like the old American muscle cars in that they aren't real track cars. Not to say they don't handle decently, however the base CTS is competitive with most MB offerings.

The CTS-V, out of the box, has met and exceeded the performance of cars which have been evolving for decades. It may have a 'Chevy' motor, but since when has that ever been a down side to owning a high performance automobile? And it's only 3 years old. With the chassis already at world class levels, and a new body available in 2 years, I'm sure the Euros are not all that happy looking into the future when they compare the next generation cars.

And let's get a few things straight. I own a base CTS, which is a very nice car. For those of you hung up on cheap looking interiors, I just don't get it. I spent time in Audi's at the car show last year specifically because of all the great press they get compared to my car, and I just don't see it. Still plastic parts, still buttons and knobs, still guages and pedals. They weren't particularly more comfortable, nor user freindly that I can see. However, since I spend the majority of my time driving looking through the windshield instead of admiring my dashboard, I may be slightly easier to please. :thumbsup:

Geno
10-23-05, 12:04 PM
I guess you never saw the review for the Ford GT
Look, a little history is in order. The reason they had anything good to say about the Ford GT is because of it's DNA. The original car (back in the early sixties) was designed by an English designer, Eric Bradley (sp) and built in England . So in their eyes it's not an exclusively American car.
Hence a positive review.

crowan
10-23-05, 12:56 PM
[quote=The point I was TRYING to make is the same one that Top Gear and virtually every car mag that's looked at the car has made....the CTS-V is a wonderful performer but it lacks in styling and overall quality feel.[/quote]

Katshot:

Here is a news flash. The members of this forum are, for the most part, people who like the styling, quality, and performance of the V to actually buy the car. Most of the members are very passionate about the car and we spend alot of time on this board comparing notes, ideas, mods, and other information that will improve our ownership experience with the car. Some owners have negative experiences that are discussed and analyzed at great length on the board. They don't get trashed because they are relating a personal experience based in reality.

However, it is beyond me why some people, who don't own the car, persist in dropping in to tell us that, in their opinion, as formulated by watching Top Gear or reading some car magazine, the V lacks styling and feels cheap. If that is how you feel, don't buy the car, but spare me your opinion because it is not based on any real world experience.

You come off like a heckler at a comedy club who thinks everyone has paid their money to hear him rather than the comedian. Once again, this is the CTS-V board, where people are generally very passionate about their cars. I'm sure there are general discussion boards where your intellectual musings will be applauded and where Blackout can post his "You guys think your car is all that..." rants to a receptive audience that seems oddly disturbed by the fact that we love our cars.

I wouldn't think of going to the forums for cars I don't own and lecturing them with my "opinions" regarding why I consider to be their cars to be cheap, poorly styled, or otherwise lacking in value. I would expect to get trashed because it is a silly thing to do.

CR

Blackout
10-23-05, 01:09 PM
Look, a little history is in order. The reason they had anything good to say about the Ford GT is because of it's DNA. The original car (back in the early sixties) was designed by an English designer, Eric Bradley (sp) and built in England . So in their eyes it's not an exclusively American car.
Hence a positive review.If thats how yo want to think of it then go right ahead

Dave's V
10-23-05, 01:11 PM
Gas mileage? Are you serious? Who cares about gas mileage?

Anyway, that would not be the reason you pass on a SRt for V. It would be that you want a manual transmission, a lighter car, and slightly sharper handling. The tradeoff is that you have a much less roomy car and you have to deal with wheel hop that is non-existant in the Chrysler.

Gas mileage important? These days, heck yes. The SRT 8 still has a price that affects people that actually care about gas mileage. Chrysler has been abusing the EPA stanards for years by selling cars that are considered light trucks (PT cruiser, Magnum series). They get great gas mileage (for a truck) so they get to sell more gas guzzling (IE Ram, Dakota) trucks.

Wheel hop is pretty much non-existant on my V now that the bushings have been upgraded so that is a non-issue. I wouldn't buy the Chrsyler because of the styling. I would gladly pay $11k more for a car that has a lot better styling (IMO) then drive around in a sporty car with handling not up to par with competitiors cars and with poor styling.

Now if it is a Ferrari or some other sports car we are talking about, I'll take the gas mileage of the SRT 8.

Blackout
10-23-05, 01:11 PM
Katshot:

Here is a news flash. The members of this forum are, for the most part, people who like the styling, quality, and performance of the V to actually buy the car. Most of the members are very passionate about the car and we spend alot of time on this board comparing notes, ideas, mods, and other information that will improve our ownership experience with the car. Some owners have negative experiences that are discussed and analyzed at great length on the board. They don't get trashed because they are relating a personal experience based in reality.

However, it is beyond me why some people, who don't own the car, persist in dropping in to tell us that, in their opinion, as formulated by watching Top Gear or reading some car magazine, the V lacks styling and feels cheap. If that is how you feel, don't buy the car, but spare me your opinion because it is not based on any real world experience.

You come off like a heckler at a comedy club who thinks everyone has paid their money to hear him rather than the comedian. Once again, this is the CTS-V board, where people are generally very passionate about their cars. I'm sure there are general discussion boards where your intellectual musings will be applauded and where Blackout can post his "You guys think your car is all that..." rants to a receptive audience that seems oddly disturbed by the fact that we love our cars.

I wouldn't think of going to the forums for cars I don't own and lecturing them with my "opinions" regarding why I consider to be their cars to be cheap, poorly styled, or otherwise lacking in value. I would expect to get trashed because it is a silly thing to do.

CR
At the same token though. When every magazine article out there and now Top Gear says the same things about the car and after being in one I would tend to agree with the rest of the world then a CTS-V owner because their opinion is most likely going to bias

Blackout
10-23-05, 01:12 PM
Gas mileage important? These days, heck yes. The SRT 8 still has a price that affects people that actually care about gas mileage. Chrysler has been abusing the EPA stanards for years by selling cars that are considered light trucks (PT cruiser, Magnum series). They get great gas mileage (for a truck) so they get to sell more gas guzzling (IE Ram, Dakota) trucks.

Wheel hop is pretty much non-existant on my V now that the bushings have been upgraded so that is a non-issue. I wouldn't buy the Chrsyler because of the styling. I would gladly pay $11k more for a car that has a lot better styling (IMO) then drive around in a sporty car with handling not up to par with competitiors cars and with poor styling.

Now if it is a Ferrari or some other sports car we are talking about, I'll take the gas mileage of the SRT 8.Who buys a performance car and is worried about gas mileage!?

crowan
10-23-05, 01:43 PM
At the same token though. When every magazine article out there and now Top Gear says the same things about the car and after being in one I would tend to agree with the rest of the world then a CTS-V owner because their opinion is most likely going to bias

Once again, this is the CTS-V forum. I repeat my basic questions:

If you don't like the car, why are you here?
If you don't own the car, why are you here?
Do we come to your workplace and knock the d**ks out of your mouth?

You live in a fantasy world of car mags and television shows. You can't afford anything but a POS. When you are capable of actually buying any vehicle that is in the V's league, come back with your heckling routine then.

Until then, you are just another annoying twerp with a keyboard.

CR

Blackout
10-23-05, 02:57 PM
Once again, this is the CTS-V forum. I repeat my basic questions:

If you don't like the car, why are you here?
If you don't own the car, why are you here?
Do we come to your workplace and knock the d**ks out of your mouth?

You live in a fantasy world of car mags and television shows. You can't afford anything but a POS. When you are capable of actually buying any vehicle that is in the V's league, come back with your heckling routine then.

Until then, you are just another annoying twerp with a keyboard.

CRActually this is a Cadillac forum. The CTS-V is a section of the forum. I have been a member on here before there even was a CTS-V section on here. I came on this thread because I was interested in how the CTS-V stacked up to the Audi S4. I put in my 2 cents and the next thing you know you have you and some others flipping out because I am stating my opinions on what the test showed and then you start running off with the mouth saying how since I don't own one how can I say anything an yada, yada. Your the annoying one with a keyboard here not me. I'm not the one talking about knocking d*cks out of your mouth and saying how I can't afford anything but a POS. :rolleyes: Yeah......and I'm the annoying twerp

crowan
10-23-05, 03:15 PM
Actually this is a Cadillac forum. The CTS-V is a section of the forum. I have been a member on here before there even was a CTS-V section on here. I came on this thread because I was interested in how the CTS-V stacked up to the Audi S4. I put in my 2 cents and the next thing you know you have you and some others flipping out because I am stating my opinions on what the test showed and then you start running off with the mouth saying how since I don't own one how can I say anything an yada, yada. Your the annoying one with a keyboard here not me. I'm not the one talking about knocking d*cks out of your mouth and saying how I can't afford anything but a POS. :rolleyes: Yeah......and I'm the annoying twerp

:yawn:

Blackout
10-23-05, 03:59 PM
:yawn:Of course you don't have anything to say. Why would I expect any less of you

MCaesar
10-23-05, 04:25 PM
Who buys a performance car and is worried about gas mileage!?

Yeah, that post is a joke. Like I give a rat's behind if my car gets 2 mpg better than another car. Especially if just lost a race

MCaesar
10-23-05, 04:28 PM
Gas mileage important? These days, heck yes. The SRT 8 still has a price that affects people that actually care about gas mileage. Chrysler has been abusing the EPA stanards for years by selling cars that are considered light trucks (PT cruiser, Magnum series). They get great gas mileage (for a truck) so they get to sell more gas guzzling (IE Ram, Dakota) trucks.

Wheel hop is pretty much non-existant on my V now that the bushings have been upgraded so that is a non-issue. I wouldn't buy the Chrsyler because of the styling. I would gladly pay $11k more for a car that has a lot better styling (IMO) then drive around in a sporty car with handling not up to par with competitiors cars and with poor styling.

Now if it is a Ferrari or some other sports car we are talking about, I'll take the gas mileage of the SRT 8.

The difference is gas mileage in real world test is about 2 MPG - WHO CARES!

What does the gas mileage of Dodge truck have to do with the V versus SRT8 anyway?

Now styling, that is a real reason to buy the V. Of course styling is subjective. I think the CTS styling looks better for its price range than the STS does for its price range. The STS looks like a blown up CTS and is not even close in looks to the E class or 5 series. Of course someone else will think the reverse.

The wheel hop is a real issue whether your particular car has it or not. Too many do have it to ignore it. Poor attention to detail and engineering as cars with much more power don't have that problem.

It is ok to admit to the faults of your car without being anti-CTS or something. No car is perfect.

Katshot
10-23-05, 05:57 PM
Crowan,
You notice the thread was going just fine until you decided to chime in with your flaming posts. As pointed out already to you, there's no reason for you to get personal here. It's an internet forum for God's sake. Lighten up. And as for your comment:
You can't afford anything but a POS. When you are capable of actually buying any vehicle that is in the V's league, come back with your heckling routine then.
That only shows how juvenile you are. You have no idea what I or anyone else here can afford to buy.
It's obvious that YOU want this forum to all about the CTS-V and nothing else. No negative comments etc. Sorry that's just not going to happen.
I, for one am very happy that it "seems" like there are fewer here that are like you than there used to be. Like I said, until you came in here, the conversation was civil and respectful. You're the one that trashed this thread. I'm calling it quits now in this thread. It's gone down-hill too much for me. If this keeps up it'll only get locked.

Blackout
10-23-05, 07:09 PM
The difference is gas mileage in real world test is about 2 MPG - WHO CARES!

What does the gas mileage of Dodge truck have to do with the V versus SRT8 anyway?

Now styling, that is a real reason to buy the V. Of course styling is subjective. I think the CTS styling looks better for its price range than the STS does for its price range. The STS looks like a blown up CTS and is not even close in looks to the E class or 5 series. Of course someone else will think the reverse.

The wheel hop is a real issue whether your particular car has it or not. Too many do have it to ignore it. Poor attention to detail and engineering as cars with much more power don't have that problem.

It is ok to admit to the faults of your car without being anti-CTS or something. No car is perfect.
Couldn't have said it much better

Dave's V
10-23-05, 07:13 PM
The difference is gas mileage in real world test is about 2 MPG - WHO CARES!

What does the gas mileage of Dodge truck have to do with the V versus SRT8 anyway?

Now styling, that is a real reason to buy the V. Of course styling is subjective. I think the CTS styling looks better for its price range than the STS does for its price range. The STS looks like a blown up CTS and is not even close in looks to the E class or 5 series. Of course someone else will think the reverse.

The wheel hop is a real issue whether your particular car has it or not. Too many do have it to ignore it. Poor attention to detail and engineering as cars with much more power don't have that problem.

It is ok to admit to the faults of your car without being anti-CTS or something. No car is perfect.

Actually, EPA rating is 19 for the SRT 8 and 23 for the CTS V. If you want to talk real world, I got 25.5 on a brisk ride to Denver from Utah. It seems like some people can't handle negative comments about any car that competes against the V. We constantly post negative comments on this board about the V. That is why we have so many questions about is this car reliable enough. Or I was considering buying it until I read the posts on this board.

I doubt most of us would even buy an SRT 8 because it has an auto tranny behind the engine.

CVP33
10-23-05, 07:17 PM
This has been fun to watch.

MCaesar
10-23-05, 08:51 PM
Actually, EPA rating is 19 for the SRT 8 and 23 for the CTS V. If you want to talk real world, I got 25.5 on a brisk ride to Denver from Utah. It seems like some people can't handle negative comments about any car that competes against the V. We constantly post negative comments on this board about the V. That is why we have so many questions about is this car reliable enough. Or I was considering buying it until I read the posts on this board.

I doubt most of us would even buy an SRT 8 because it has an auto tranny behind the engine.

You got 25 on a highway ride...so what?

What matters is real world averages and the best way to see what the difference is to have an independent tester, like a car magazine test them both under the same conditions and compare acceleration, handling, braking, feel, ride, and mpg. In the real world tests that I have seen from magazines the V averaged 18mpg and the SRET8 16. Perhaps car testers get on the cars harder so that hurt mpg averages. Road & Track tested both cars and averaged 17.1 in the V and 16.0 in the 300C SRST8 - certainly not enough difference to make me choose one car or the other. If you are going to compare gas mileage then you might as well talk about rear seat room and trunk space where the V loses handily to the 300. Or you could talk more imaginary figures like Top Speed where Car & Driver got the V to 161 but the SRT8 to 173.

But NO, we are talking sports sedan qualities - acceleration, handling, braking, transitional feel.

There are questions about reliability of the V because of the crappy rear end they chose to put in. The questions are not figments of a web board's imagination. Do you think all these people with broken rear ends or bad case of the hops are all imagining it?

Blackout
10-23-05, 09:43 PM
You got 25 on a highway ride...so what?
What matters is real world averages and the best way to see what the difference is to have an independent tester, like a car magazine test them both under the same conditions and compare acceleration, handling, braking, feel, ride, and mpg. In the real world tests that I have seen from magazines the V averaged 18mpg and the SRET8 16. Perhaps car testers get on the cars harder so that hurt mpg averages. Road & Track tested both cars and averaged 17.1 in the V and 16.0 in the 300C SRST8 - certainly not enough difference to make me choose one car or the other. If you are going to compare gas mileage then you might as well talk about rear seat room and trunk space where the V loses handily to the 300. Or you could talk more imaginary figures like Top Speed where Car & Driver got the V to 161 but the SRT8 to 173.
But NO, we are talking sports sedan qualities - acceleration, handling, braking, transitional feel.
There are questions about reliability of the V because of the crappy rear end they chose to put in. The questions are not figments of a web board's imagination. Do you think all these people with broken rear ends or bad case of the hops are all imagining it?
I love this guy!:highfive:

Dave's V
10-23-05, 11:33 PM
This has been fun to watch.

CVP33,
Yeah, I'm done with them. They can crticize the V as much as they want. The funny part about all of this is that probably don't own a V or an SRT 8 or anything close to it. So I guess they can read magazines all day about them bringing up how a 12mph greater top speed helps in the real world. Since they read the mags so much they would have figured out that the V beat the SRT 8 in just about all catagories. But I guess that isn't the real world for them then.

SRT 8 and GTO conversations should be banned on this forum, at least by people that don't own them or the V

MCaesar
10-24-05, 12:46 AM
CVP33,
Yeah, I'm done with them. They can crticize the V as much as they want. The funny part about all of this is that probably don't own a V or an SRT 8 or anything close to it. So I guess they can read magazines all day about them bringing up how a 12mph greater top speed helps in the real world. Since they read the mags so much they would have figured out that the V beat the SRT 8 in just about all catagories. But I guess that isn't the real world for them then.

SRT 8 and GTO conversations should be banned on this forum, at least by people that don't own them or the V

What about if you own both?

Blackout
10-24-05, 01:05 AM
CVP33,
Yeah, I'm done with them. They can crticize the V as much as they want. The funny part about all of this is that probably don't own a V or an SRT 8 or anything close to it. So I guess they can read magazines all day about them bringing up how a 12mph greater top speed helps in the real world. Since they read the mags so much they would have figured out that the V beat the SRT 8 in just about all catagories. But I guess that isn't the real world for them then.

SRT 8 and GTO conversations should be banned on this forum, at least by people that don't own them or the VConsidering I am a long time member of the SRTforums I know plenty of SRT-8 300C owners that are running 12's in stock trim and I just saw a guy post on here that he finally broke into the 12's with his CTS-V and he had quite a few mods done to his car

Nocturn
10-24-05, 01:06 AM
Considering I am a long time member of the SRTforums I know plenty of SRT-8 300C owners that are running 12's in stock trim and I just saw a guy post on here that he finally broke into the 12's with his CTS-V and he had quite a few mods done to his car

Take a gander at the transmission availability...anyone can stomp and steer.

Blackout
10-24-05, 07:42 AM
Take a gander at the transmission availability...anyone can stomp and steer.Who cares? The CTS-V is more of a drivers car but the SRT-8 at the end of the day still has the better performance and a manual isn't going to outperform a automatic when it comes to racing

cruzajc1
10-24-05, 07:43 AM
I think the eurofiles are crapping their pants ass Cadillac is making their cars look like slush mobiles. The audi looked outmatched and seriously, I felt sad for the audi getting the shit kicked out of it by the brash young American car. I'm getting me one of these CTS-V's when $$$ wife allows:)

Gus
14.5 Sec 96 STS
www.adumbrecords.com/hosting for videos

Blackout
10-24-05, 07:56 AM
60 ft 1.973
330 ft 5.528
594 ft 7.893
1/8 mile ET 8.428
1/8 mile MPH 84.12
1000 ft 10.941
1/4 mile ET 13.046
1/4 mile MPH 107.63

This is a buddy of mine's 1/4 time for his bone stock Charger SRT-8 with less then 2000 miles on it.

And this is another one of the guys I know at 300Cforums.com


i just got home from the track

made 4 runs tonight with my new srt8
1st 13.5 @ 104
2nd 13.23@107
3rd 13.08@108

and then it happend!!!

60ft 1.94
330 5.50
1/8 8.4
mph 83.8
990 10.82
1/4 12.99
mph 108.38

It's hard not to give props to the SRT-8 because it is an awesome car. If they gave the car a stick it might even perform better around the track. It will be interesting to see what a guy over on the SRTforums comes up with once he completes his T-56 conversion on his SRT-8 Charger

cruzajc1
10-24-05, 09:50 AM
Blackout, you lurk in every forum on the net comparing every car to a Cadillac. When are we going to race my 96 STS against your LT1? Your 14.9 to my 14.5...I win:) Now leave the CTS-V boys alone, you know you want one of the V's:) Stop having envy!

cruzajc1
10-24-05, 09:51 AM
Also, you have alot of buddies...not a good sign....OK, just teasing!

Nocturn
10-24-05, 02:45 PM
anyone know if they test the XLR/V?

Vrocks
10-24-05, 03:13 PM
CVP33,
Yeah, I'm done with them. They can crticize the V as much as they want. The funny part about all of this is that probably don't own a V or an SRT 8 or anything close to it. So I guess they can read magazines all day about them bringing up how a 12mph greater top speed helps in the real world. Since they read the mags so much they would have figured out that the V beat the SRT 8 in just about all catagories. But I guess that isn't the real world for them then.
SRT 8 and GTO conversations should be banned on this forum, at least by people that don't own them or the V
:yeah:
...I thought a few of the posters in this thread were gone for good.

Unfortunately they're still around, they have nothing good to say about the CTS or CTS-V, and they love to get us going. Which was the only purpose for their comments and I'm not going to mention names because we know who they are.

Blackout
10-24-05, 03:33 PM
Blackout, you lurk in every forum on the net comparing every car to a Cadillac. When are we going to race my 96 STS against your LT1? Your 14.9 to my 14.5...I win:) Now leave the CTS-V boys alone, you know you want one of the V's:) Stop having envy!Since when does a Mark VIII have a LT1? But I don't even have the Mark VIII anymore, you knew that. And I did my 14.9 with a slipping trans and a bad MLPS sensor and even with that I was breathing on a 14.8

cruzajc1
10-24-05, 03:56 PM
Breath on this, my 96 STS will smoke you in the 1/4 and don't even try to run me from a roll because you will see my tail lights:) as many others have, but you can bring your "Buddies" from the SRT-8 forum to help you out:)

SRT8/BMW
10-24-05, 03:59 PM
:yeah:
...I thought a few of the posters in this thread were gone for good.

Unfortunately they're still around, they have nothing good to say about the CTS or CTS-V, and they love to get us going. Which was the only purpose for their comments and I'm not going to mention names because we know who they are.

we aren't all bad. I have the SRT8--and can say nothing bad about the V. I LOVE that car..and I get excited every time I get to see one (rare). Sure, it isn't perfect (wheel hop) but what car is. We have issues with the brakes and rotors. Anyway, this video of the V kicking the shi# outta the Audi was excellent!

Don't listen to the naysayers...unless they can take you clean, they aren't credible enough to be critical.!!! The V most certainly speaks for itself and needs not be defended.

CVP33
10-24-05, 07:43 PM
The SRT-8 is an awesome car as is the Charger, the Magnum, the Viper, the Corvette and many other domestic models that have caught my eye. I've always been a GM fan so I chose GM. I don't begrudge anyone their right to love another model. God knows after what I've put up with from my CTS-V it must be love. It's kind of like when your newborn son pukes and pisses on you. No problem. But when your drunk buddy does it, game over. Your Chrysler is my drunk buddy. :thumbsup: :histeric:

Blackout
10-24-05, 10:05 PM
Breath on this, my 96 STS will smoke you in the 1/4 and don't even try to run me from a roll because you will see my tail lights:) as many others have, but you can bring your "Buddies" from the SRT-8 forum to help you out:)Ummmm.......I dunno what this has to do with the topic at hand. But if you say so

V-Love
10-26-05, 02:48 AM
Those Brits Are Scared!!!!

V-Love
10-26-05, 03:03 AM
Haters!

MCaesar
10-26-05, 07:47 AM
we aren't all bad. I have the SRT8--and can say nothing bad about the V. I LOVE that car..and I get excited every time I get to see one (rare). Sure, it isn't perfect (wheel hop) but what car is. We have issues with the brakes and rotors. Anyway, this video of the V kicking the shi# outta the Audi was excellent!

Don't listen to the naysayers...unless they can take you clean, they aren't credible enough to be critical.!!! The V most certainly speaks for itself and needs not be defended.

Here here

(or is it hear hear?)

You can be automobile person and appreciate both cars. They are both excellent cars and they are not 100% head to head competitors like the Mustang and Camaro were anyway.

It is more like how for years AMG and M would take slightly different tacks with the Ms being the more sporting with the sticks.