: 2001 deville engine making kocking noise



Drakster
06-20-14, 12:05 PM
I was driving on the highway and i heard a pop then it got worse then a a constant whining knocking noise like (tiss,tiss,tiss) sounds like a vacuum leak... i posted the video...It occasionally marked check cooling level but it went away and it always has coolant...I also was hearing a light clicking sound under the dash by the drivers side for the last couple of weeks but it came and went...i towed my car home anybody have any ideas before i get the mechanic to look at it... ihad put oil in a week or two ago and it was at the add line i know these engines burn a lot of oil.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0wnyo8tdu15z0ul/VIDEO0050.mp4

UM Rebel
06-20-14, 02:35 PM
That sounds worse than a vacuum leak. Maybe blown head gasket. Did you recently have plugs changed? Might check if all plugs are in tight.

arctic_man
06-20-14, 03:36 PM
That sounds worse than a vacuum leak. Maybe blown head gasket. Did you recently have plugs changed? Might check if all plugs are in tight.

It probably isn't the heads. To be honest, it sounds too loud to be inside the engine. It almost sounds like a fan or a pulley is slapping something.

You say the coolant level has always been the same?

Does the noise increase with RPM? If you open the oil filler hole and stick your ear to it, is the noise louder? It really sounds like something outside the engine rather than inside...

Have you pulled codes on your car? There is a sticky at the top of the forum that will tell you how to do it. Post the codes and the definitions in this post. It will be able to assist us further.

Drakster
06-20-14, 04:17 PM
That sounds worse than a vacuum leak. Maybe blown head gasket. Did you recently have plugs changed? Might check if all plugs are in tight.

no i haven't changed them or messed with them[COLOR="Silver"]

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It probably isn't the heads. To be honest, it sounds too loud to be inside the engine. It almost sounds like a fan or a pulley is slapping something.

You say the coolant level has always been the same?

Does the noise increase with RPM? If you open the oil filler hole and stick your ear to it, is the noise louder? It really sounds like something outside the engine rather than inside...

Have you pulled codes on your car? There is a sticky at the top of the forum that will tell you how to do it. Post the codes and the definitions in this post. It will be able to assist us further.
yes the coolant stays the same just loses a lil bit of it i can still see it in the tank....and the noise goes faster the more power i give it but the noise dose not increase with the oil cap of and it sounds like its coming from the water-pump pulley area....and its starting to smell like gas after i turn it on and feels like its gonna shut off by itself...i haven't really let it run for long im scared it might get worse or mess something else up ...can i run the codes with the car not turned on but the key in it with a half a turn?

basscatt
06-20-14, 04:26 PM
that sure sounds like a blown out spark plug

arctic_man
06-20-14, 04:30 PM
...can i run the codes with the car not turned on but the key in it with a half a turn?

You sure can. You can run codes with accessory power.

It is funny you mentioned that it sounded like it came from the water pump area. When the camera slightly moved that way, it sounded like it got louder.

It could be a bad water pump. I have never had to replace one or had one go bad. Same with a seized pulley, so I cannot tell you what that sounds like.

However, with a wrench and some sockets, you can remove the water pump pulley cover and take a look. See what the belt looks like. However, I believe the pump would run with the RPMs, so it may not be that. But it does not hurt to take a look. Should be two nuts on the bottom, and one nut/bolt on the side near the throttle body. Take it off and take a look. Maybe the belt is frayed.

Can you describe the fuel smell? The fuel smell could be a vacuum leak somewhere. Does the car hesitate at idle, or seem like it is going to stall?


that sure sounds like a blown out spark plug

Would that cause a miss fire as well? That could explain the gas smell. Maybe it is one of the plugs closest to the water pump. 6 or 8...?

Final edit, it does sound quite a bit like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29ewZ0tSpAw

Drakster
06-20-14, 05:34 PM
Basscatt it did do a popping sound at first like a blew a couple of farts in the highway then never heard that sound again and it does sound exactly like that video arctic man posted...artic man i have changed the water pump of this car before and it didn't make that noise it just leaked a lil im gonna try and run the codes

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these are the codes i got back from the test IPM B0429, PCM P0300, RFA B3109

arctic_man
06-20-14, 05:47 PM
Basscatt it did do a popping sound at first like a blew a couple of farts in the highway then never heard that sound again and it does sound exactly like that video arctic man posted...artic man i have changed the water pump of this car before and it didn't make that noise it just leaked a lil im gonna try and run the codes

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these are the codes i got back from the test IPM B0429, PCM P0300, RFA B3109

While we do like definitions, the one that currently matters is P0300. Random miss-fire detected. Bring the car to a place with a scanner, and it will tell you which cylinder is miss-firing. I bet that is your foul plug. Or likewise, start pulling plugs and you will probably find the culprit pretty quick.

I am assuming you have a check engine light too?

Drakster
06-20-14, 05:58 PM
yes i had the problem before it would feel ruff and kinda stutter and they changed the front ignition coil and it started doing it all over again a couple of days later but i dont think they changed the spark plugs....and how can u tell if the spark plug is bad will it be broken or burnt black...and yes the check engine comes on stays on or starts blinking.

70cougar
06-20-14, 06:59 PM
Try not to drive the car much at all with the SES blinking; because that signifies a bad misfire which can lead to destroying the catalytic converter by dumping raw gas into it - not cheap to fix.

Drakster
06-20-14, 07:04 PM
yea i think that's what i heard when it started farting loud it sounded like it was coming from the converter

UM Rebel
06-23-14, 01:48 PM
Try not to drive the car much at all with the SES blinking; because that signifies a bad misfire which can lead to destroying the catalytic converter by dumping raw gas into it - not cheap to fix.

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What 70 cougar said.
If you've got a close by Autozone or access to a code scanner, run a code scan to find what cyl or cyls are misfiring. I'm still betting broken or loose sparkplug. Post what you find out.

BTW the best the onboard scanner can do is P0300 - Random misfire. An external scanner can usually pinpoint the cyl at fault, like P0301, P0302, etc)

Good luck. Let us know what you find out.

Drakster
06-27-14, 01:14 PM
^
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What 70 cougar said.
If you've got a close by Autozone or access to a code scanner, run a code scan to find what cyl or cyls are misfiring. I'm still betting broken or loose sparkplug. Post what you find out.

BTW the best the onboard scanner can do is P0300 - Random misfire. An external scanner can usually pinpoint the cyl at fault, like P0301, P0302, etc)

Good luck. Let us know what you find out.

still haven't got around to fix it but ill keep you guys posted thx again for ur tips guys

Drakster
07-10-14, 03:22 PM
ok guys i did a scan with a a D900 EOBD/OBDII live data hand held scanner and i got these codes back....P0306 cylinder 6 misfire and Fuel Sys1...OL Fault and Fuel Sys2....OL Fault .......does this mean the fuel injectors in 1 and 2 cylinders are messed up?

Ranger
07-10-14, 10:02 PM
I'm not sure what "Fuel Sys1...OL Fault and Fuel Sys2" means, but I suspect it may be bank 1 & 2 vs cylinder 1 & 2.

"OL" :noidea: Operating Lean maybe?

Drakster
07-12-14, 03:03 PM
ok got it checked out and its a blow spark plug charging me $150 to re thread the head and $170 for spark plugs and boots and $430 for ignition coils total cost $750...also told me i should get a new engine for $2900

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yjf1j7j2gnflan7/IMAG0752.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vzwpeoc965i95o8/IMAG0753.jpg

MoistCabbage
07-12-14, 03:06 PM
Why did he replace both coil cassettes? And why exactly do you need a "new" engine??

Sounds like you found a good shop NOT to go back to.....

Drakster
07-12-14, 03:13 PM
I know i wanted to laugh out loud but i held my composure...i didn't get it fixed there just got an inspection i got a side mechanic that's gonna fix it for me....he also said its might happen again so its not a sure fix is this true?

Why did he replace both coil cassettes? And why exactly do you need a "new" engine??

Sounds like you found a good shop NOT to go back to.....

Ranger
07-12-14, 09:34 PM
ok got it checked out and its a blow spark plug charging me $150 to re thread the head and $170 for spark plugs and boots and $430 for ignition coils total cost $750...also told me i should get a new engine for $2900
Stick 'em up :gungrin:

Drakster
07-22-14, 12:09 AM
hey guys fixed my misfire.... a blown spark plug... car worked great for like two days then on a cold start in the morning it started making a loud knocking sound i posted the video....at first it was really loud but know its a lil quieter but still loud it marked check engine for a lil while then went away..now its runs good but still have a knocking sound...i keep getting the check coolant but its full... i ran the codes on a OBDII and it reads....P0100...P07ED...U2D48...and when i run the codes on the car computer dash i get IPM B0429 current...I let my mechanic look at that fixed my misfire and he said its internal an probably better of getting a new engine or rebuilt one what u guys think.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2a1p42jbrv0zyar/VIDEO0052.mp4

Ranger
07-22-14, 11:00 AM
That does sound internal, but whether or not it is terminal and warrants a new engine is yet to be seen. Might be as simple as a broken valve spring.

04GrandAmGT
07-22-14, 11:20 AM
both cassettes... looks like a shop trying to make more money than they need

Drakster
07-23-14, 09:27 PM
That does sound internal, but whether or not it is terminal and warrants a new engine is yet to be seen. Might be as simple as a broken valve spring.

whats the cost of that repair? and can i still drive the car without causing more damage


both cassettes... looks like a shop trying to make more money than they need


whats the cost of this repair?...and can i still drive the car without causing more damage

Ranger
07-23-14, 10:01 PM
whats the cost of that repair?
BTSOM :noidea:



and can i still drive the car without causing more damageI wouldn't drive it like that for too long.

Submariner409
07-24-14, 11:02 AM
Sounds like a collapsed hydraulic valve lash adjuster - a day's work by a mechanic who KNOWS Northstars. Pretty detailed diagnosis and disassembly of a cylinder head valve/cam timing system.

That ticking noise is valve train - it's at half engine speed.

BUT, given the extent of damage to the coil cassette and the ruined spark plug hole threads there may be other collateral damage........... with the other fixes involved in repairing the plug hole it's possible that a chip of something is wedged under a valve head, holding it partly open - that would simulate a bad lash adjuster. (Your engine has no "lifters" as such - it has roller cam followers.)

98eldo32v
07-26-14, 07:26 AM
Valve train related noise.

Check oil pressure.......

Check oil filter and/or replace oil filter and oil.

The hydraulic lash adjuster, hence fed by the oil passage could be considered a lifter. That could be collapsed or dry from a lack of lubrication or low oil pressure.....

Worst case scenario replacing the oil pump and possibly offending lifter/lash adjuster.

Ranger
07-26-14, 10:44 AM
I wouldn't jump to the oil pump. They are as reliable as the day is long and if the oil pump where the problem, he'd have much more noise than just a little ticking (but not for long).

98eldo32v
07-26-14, 01:20 PM
The oil pump is supplying inadequate pressure at idle, the noise tames down a little when the rpm is increased.

Why? The pump is raising the pressure.......

There you go.......

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-deville-1985-2005-including-1985/261887-2000-deville-oil-pressure-low-stop.html

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Mine just started ticking. It's very faint.

I have never touched the engine and have been driving the car. She runs excellent.

Again, with my experience with this motor, it's not going to be something minor.

In case you're wondering what part number to get, It's a Melling M188.

I already have one on deck.......

I leave nothing for chance........

Good luck

Drakster
07-26-14, 06:23 PM
I wouldn't jump to the oil pump. They are as reliable as the day is long and if the oil pump where the problem, he'd have much more noise than just a little ticking (but not for long).
Ranger ur in my area do u know or recommend a good mechanic or shop that knows northstar engines i dont really want to take it to the dealer....and thx for all ur great info guys

Drakster
07-26-14, 09:20 PM
thx for ur info 98eldo32v

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thx for the info Submariner409

Ranger
07-26-14, 09:31 PM
Ranger ur in my area do u know or recommend a good mechanic or shop that knows northstar engines i dont really want to take it to the dealer....and thx for all ur great info guys
Call Joe Blau
Midwest Cadillac Repair in Palatine.
847-776-1234

98eldo32v
07-26-14, 11:11 PM
No problem.....

98eldo32v
07-27-14, 07:21 PM
Replaced non gm oil filter with Delco 61E. OLM states 70% oil life left.

Start car, no ticking.......

Warm up car, no ticking........

Drive car, runs great.............

Curb idle car hot after 10 minutes, faint ticking............

Oil pump is coming out.......

98eldo32v
07-28-14, 02:28 AM
Well, look at this......


Subject: Engine Cold/Knock/Tick Noise (Replace Pistons) #03-06-01-025 - (09/02/2003)




Models: 2000-2002 Cadillac Eldorado


2000-2003 Cadillac DeVille, Seville


with 4.6L Engine (VINs Y, 9 -- RPOs LD8, L37)




Built Prior to the Following VIN Breakpoints:



Model


VIN Breakpoint


DeVille

3U213641


Seville

3U215818



Important
Implementation of this service bulletin by "GM of Canada" dealers requires prior District Service Manager approval.

Condition


Some customers may comment about a tick/knock noise, sometimes described as an upper engine ticking noise or a deep low knock that sounds similar to a main bearing knock. This noise is more often heard during engine start up after a long cold soak condition and may or may not diminish as the engine reaches normal operating temperature. The knock may appear to be the loudest at the exhaust manifolds on either side or both. This noise does not change when disconnecting spark plug wires, or individually disabling the fuel injectors. As a general rule, the source of this noise cannot be determined.

Cause


The source of this noise may be carbon deposits in the engine combustion chambers.

Correction



Caution!
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.

Install service piston, P/N 89017438, with rings, P/N 89017413. Follow installation instructions in the Service Manual.

Parts Information




Part Number


Description


Qty


89017438

Piston, Service (includes pins and clips)

8


89017413

Rings, Piston

8


12557775

Bolts, Cylinder Head

20


Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

Submariner409
07-28-14, 04:07 PM
Here's the VIN character chart for definition of the year breakpoint ............

Yep, quite a discussion on the new (replacement) pistons a while back. They have a redesign crown bump instead of being flat or with valve fly-cuts. Take a look at some of the replacement pistons in the GM parts sites.

There's some homework in here ...............

https://www.google.com/search?q=new+gm+northstar+engine+replacement+pisto n&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

UM Rebel
07-29-14, 09:45 AM
Did you check the spark plug on Cyl 6?

Drakster
08-25-14, 07:17 PM
finally got my car fixed and diagnosed thx to ranger for hooking me up with the local mechanic a northstar specialist at midwest cadillac repair..... after my blown spark plug they found out my piston had a piece of it broken off he did a total rebuilt and used my old block my baby is working like new now.

Ranger
08-25-14, 09:59 PM
Ouch!

Glad to help and hear that she's running fine again.
Thanks for the feedback.