So much for GM's new value pricing.
Don't see how the V can be 100K when the
Z06 is 65K.

So much for GM's new value pricing.
Don't see how the V can be 100K when the
Z06 is 65K.

Source? Info? Quote?

The realization that the XLR and Corvette are different cars aimed at different markets...

Cadillac
STS-V
$77,000.00 MSRP
4.4L V8 469hp

XLR-V
$100,00.00 MSRP
4.4L V8 443hp


Mercedes Benz
E55 AMG it starts at $82,575*
AMG-built 5.5L 24-valve V-8 engine - 469 hp @ 6,100 rpm

SL55 AMG
$125,775*
AMG-built supercharged 5.5L 24-valve V-8 engine - 493 hp @ 6,100 rpm


BMW
M5
MSRP $81,200
10 engine, with a five-liter capacity, 10 cylinders, 500-hp (SAE net) output, 383 lb-ft maximum torque, and engine speeds in excess of 8,000 rpm.

Cadillac
STS-V
$77,000.00 MSRP
4.4L V8 469hp

XLR-V
$100,00.00 MSRP
4.4L V8 443hp


Mercedes Benz
E55 AMG it starts at $82,575*
AMG-built 5.5L 24-valve V-8 engine - 469 hp @ 6,100 rpm

SL55 AMG
$125,775*
AMG-built supercharged 5.5L 24-valve V-8 engine - 493 hp @ 6,100 rpm


BMW
M5
MSRP $81,200
10 engine, with a five-liter capacity, 10 cylinders, 500-hp (SAE net) output, 383 lb-ft maximum torque, and engine speeds in excess of 8,000 rpm.

It's definatly priced right, but for these types of cars it's honestly not that important. People who pay 100k for a car just want the best, and they want everyone to know they have the best, that's why they're paying 77k afterall, and not 41k on a base model STSV8. At least, that's my view, caddy knows what they're doing... if they can get people to think wow... the STS-V and XLR-V are among the best cars in the world... then they can raise prices even more, and people will still buy them, right now it looks like a deal, but Like I said, I dont think most people spending that much money on a car really care about "getting a good deal" lol, they have so much money it doesn't matter. They just want the best and nothing less :thumbsup:

Hell, BMW gets away with it every 3 series they sell.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107463

Cadillac Slaps $100,000 Tag on XLR-V
Date Posted 10-04-2005

DETROIT — Cadillac's new XLR-V, the performance variant of the hardtop roadster, will carry a manufacturer's suggested retail price of $100,000 when it arrives in showrooms later this year. The companion STS-V sedan will be priced at about $77,000.

The XLR-V is fitted with a supercharged, 4.4-liter version of General Motors' Northstar V8. The engine makes 440 horsepower and drives the rear wheels through a new six-speed automatic with manual-shift capability. Cadillac claims 0-to-60-mph acceleration in fewer than 5 seconds.

Also due this fall is the STS-V, which shares the supercharged, 4.4-liter unit and six-speed gearbox. Like the XLR-V, the high-performance sedan gets larger wheels and tires, along with the appropriate suspension modifications.

In a related move, GM announced that 49-year-old Bob Kruse will replace Mark Reuss, 42, as head of the company's performance division, which is responsible for development of the V-Series Cadillacs, among other goodies. Kruse retains his title as executive director of North America vehicle integration, while Reuss shifts to executive director of vehicle systems.

What this means to you: For about $25,000 less than the price of a Mercedes SL55 AMG, you can drive a 440-hp Cadillac roadster.

Chevy is not Cadillac, and the Corvette is not the XLR despite similarities. That folding hardtop alone illustrates that.

A huge mistake! Even if the car is worth every penny of 100K, Cadillac's renaissance is not complete enough yet nor established enough in the perception of the public as a whole to make it swallow a price point this high for a Cadillac.

Overpricing is partly what killed the Allante, and it's easy to believe that the same thing could happen to the XLR - V Series as well.

The XLR is an image car more than anything else, and Cadillac should lower the price to no more than $90,000 at the absolute max. Even if Caddy has to swallow a bundle on every one, it would be worth it to help prove the excellence of the car to the maximum number of customers actually willing and able to pay that kind of change for a car which, let's face it - they don't actually NEED, and as long as all of Cadillac's other models are terrific as well, that's where the profits will come from.

I also feel that it's a huge mistake but the price is ultimately decided by consumers, so if it does or doesn't sell well the price could change.

Has anyone here driven the new XLR-V to find out if it is overpriced?

Has anyone here driven the new XLR-V to find out if it is overpriced?

:histeric:

A huge mistake! Even if the car is worth every penny of 100K, Cadillac's renaissance is not complete enough yet nor established enough in the perception of the public as a whole to make it swallow a price point this high for a Cadillac.

Overpricing is partly what killed the Allante, and it's easy to believe that the same thing could happen to the XLR - V Series as well.

The XLR is an image car more than anything else, and Cadillac should lower the price to no more than $90,000 at the absolute max. Even if Caddy has to swallow a bundle on every one, it would be worth it to help prove the excellence of the car to the maximum number of customers actually willing and able to pay that kind of change for a car which, let's face it - they don't actually NEED, and as long as all of Cadillac's other models are terrific as well, that's where the profits will come from.

No matter how good the car is technically, and it is good, there are still two problems to overcome at that price tag:

1. No one thinks of Cadillac as equivalent to Mercedes so there must be a significant price savings.

2. Cadillac has to overcome anti-American bias when it comes to quality. Personally, my last 3 American cars all went over 200,000 so I don't have it. But many consumers feel that the Japanese and Germans build higher quality cars.

Come in low, build market share, and then raise prices after the public loves you. Remember how the first LS400 came in at $35,000?

Also, the XLR-V will be significantly down on power compared to the SL55. Not only is down 20HP, it is probably down about 75 lb-ft of torque.

Look at how dealers are discounting CTS-Vs like mad whereas Chrysler is still getting over sticker for their SRT8s.

Price low!

1. There is, check MBs quality levels recently.
2. V=M*A...Check the weights on the SL55...its got about 4-500 LBS on the XLRV.

1. There is, check MBs quality levels recently.
2. V=M*A...Check the weights on the SL55...its got about 4-500 LBS on the XLRV.

1. Mercedes quality problems have come from the ML and the A class, not the SL. Even more important than actual data, public perception is that the SL is a higher quality and higher status automobile than a Cadillac.

2. The Mercedes has 493 HP and 516 lb-ft of torque versus 440 and 425. Even if you assumed the XLR-V comes in at 500 pounds lighter that is still 8.95 pounds for each lb-ft of torque versus 8.35 pounds for each lb-ft of torque for the Mercedes. Add to that the SL55 develops more torque down low and I see a clear power advantage for the SL55.

We wil see when the rubber hits the road in a couple of months.

1. There is, check MBs quality levels recently.
2. V=M*A...Check the weights on the SL55...its got about 4-500 LBS on the XLRV.

First of all it is F=M*A (Newton's second law), but to the point the power / weight of the XLR-V is .1157 or 8.65 lbs/HP, the SL55 is .1164 or 8.59 lbs/HP

but if this slight edge isn't enough to guarantee victory then you can visit
Renntech at http://www.renntechmercedes.com/pdf/R230.pdf and get yourself 50 more HP and Torque for $5k or up to 120 more HP / tq if you want to pay about 16k.

I don't think any tuners exist for caddy nor from the discussion here is there a lot you could do to the N* to squeeze out more power.

Thats an assumption, there could easily be an aftermarket, but there just needs time for it to develop.

The SL55 has a 600 LBS difference between it and the base XLR...600 LBS is more than enough to overcome the >50 HP difference.

yes it will probably make more low end, but it also has the weight holding it down which effects it every moment be it low or high.

I don't know where you guys are getting your figures from. There is not a 600lb difference between the two cars. It is more like 460.

Second, you are ignoring the power below peak. The blown 5.4 from Mercedes has tremendous boost right off idle. That is what allows it to generate such obscene acceleration. Motor Trend recently ran an E55 Wagon to 12.3 in the 1/4 mile! The SL55 I have seen at 12.6 and 12.7. The SL600 has consistently run 12.5 and the SL65s are into the 11s.

Lastly, how many non-Cadillac people will rate the XLR-V higher on styling and image?

I'm not just a Cadillac guy, and I think the XLR-V is better looking than the SL55.

The prestige argument is pointless. MB quality has been crap for a long time now, and I don't care about the cars they made 20, 30, 40, or 50 years ago. Just like I don't care about what GM made in the 30's, 40's... and I don't care about some of the garbage they made in the 70's, 80's and most of the 90's, all I care about is what they're making today. Forunately, it's by far the best they've ever made.

Forunately, it's by far the best they've ever made.

Amen to that!

I don't know where you guys are getting your figures from. There is not a 600lb difference between the two cars. It is more like 460.

Second, you are ignoring the power below peak. The blown 5.4 from Mercedes has tremendous boost right off idle. That is what allows it to generate such obscene acceleration. Motor Trend recently ran an E55 Wagon to 12.3 in the 1/4 mile! The SL55 I have seen at 12.6 and 12.7. The SL600 has consistently run 12.5 and the SL65s are into the 11s.

Lastly, how many non-Cadillac people will rate the XLR-V higher on styling and image?

And CTSV's have run 12.9 before, add 50HP, and stubtract 2-300 LBS and its easy to hit mid 12s. An E55 weighs in at 4087 LBS, a SL55 is 4280 LBS.
A XLRV is 3804 LBS...476 LBS. With only 53 less HP, and 91 less TQ.

Now the TQ is an issue, but so is the weight. Small import cars are a testiment that even if you dont have as much low end (The Northstar makes peak torque at 3600 RPM...hardly a lack of low end) you can make up for it in less weight as weight effects EVERY SPEED...not just low end/high end. 400 LBS for example is the difference between a Cobalt SS S/C and a Malibu SS. Between a Camaro and an Impala..its a BIG difference.

Lastly, how many non-Cadillac people will rate the XLR-V higher on styling and image?

Pretty much everybody that sees my brother's XLR goes 'ga-ga' over it. The MB is good looking, the XLR and V are Gorgeous!

^^Damn straight, I was following an XLR for maybe 4 miles last week and I was amazed at how many heads were turning.

Pretty much everybody that sees my brother's XLR goes 'ga-ga' over it. The MB is good looking, the XLR and V are Gorgeous!

Hi crozier,
imagine my XLR here in Germany. Most don`t know what car I drive but anybody loves the look of it!

Harry

"Look at how dealers are discounting CTS-Vs like mad whereas Chrysler is still getting over sticker for their SRT8s."

Another bit of mis-information ....... SRT-8's are also being sold for under sticker. Go make them an offer and you'll see!

^^Damn straight, I was following an XLR for maybe 4 miles last week and I was amazed at how many heads were turning.
try driveing it ......i felt like a frickin rockstar

try driveing it ......i felt like a frickin rockstar


Stoney, man, you are a rock star.

without the whole money/singing thing .....

coarse brittney couldnt sing either ....you may be onto something ....or im on something

I bought one of the first -V's in Florida in 02/06. I love it. One of the finest cars I've ever driven (I'm 54 y/o). I'm trying to set a personal record for not putting the top up. When I lived in Key West ('81 - '84) I had a Triumph TR-250 which had a tonneau cover but no top.

If you think the car is overpriced, don't buy one, otherwise shut up.

Since the regular XLR is relatively affordably priced and has plenty of performance & power for just about anyone's reasonable/rational driving, the XLR-V is really sort of an "exclusive collector's item" - as one could say about high-$ exotics generally. The pricetag just "identifies" this. In that context it is at what might be called the "bottom edge of unreasonableness" at $100K. You pop that money just because you want the car for its exclusivity & statement, really. So saying that it should/be $10K cheaper is beside the point. Why should a Ferrari 430 or a Lambo Gallardo not be $50K cheaper than their MSRPs?

IMHO The XLR-V is actually a "bargain" in the exotic league, since it is a much better car in every regard than everything that costs $50-100K+ more. Spend some time with one, then testdrive some of the much-higher$ alternatives and see how, despite their hood ornaments, they simply aren't as good.

Cadillac aced it with the XLR, and the XLR-V is just something that Arnold needs to "borrow" in the next Terminator movie. ;)

After driving the XLR-V, it's not overpriced, great ride and power bolted to an automatic. The wow-factor is what makes it worth it.

However, I would not buy one over a Z06. I'd take the extra $10k (roughly) and buy a Maggie for the Z06. Plus I like a manual tranny.

Overall I love the XLR(V)'s chizzled look and stance. Very sharp styling! Mad props!

If you think the car is overpriced, don't buy one, otherwise shut up.


YES! best post yet! definitely getting points for that! :highfive:

Saw one,

styling was meh. 100k tag was even more meh. 100k caddy.

<-- eagerly waits for GM monthly reports to SEC.

ninjaedit:

ahh how intresting

so far in 2006. only 2875 XLR have sold (this include both normal and V series)..

yep sound like cadillac is selling these like hotcakes!! If these hot sales continue like this... I see them going the way of Oldsmobile ;)

Selling like hotcakes. That's a good one!:histeric:

Check out the CTS; there are plenty of them around if numbers are your thing.

If everyone had one then no one would want to buy one.
Who said XLR was supposed to be the leading car on sales?
Why do you think no one makes two door versions anymore?
Two door cars only make up a small percentage of the market.
If you ask me, XLR is a rich guy's toy, which is okay by me.
So why would anyone expect a car designed to be marketed to a small percentage of the population to be a big seller? If they made them cheap and flooded the market with them they would be worthless.

Maybe you'd like a Cobalt instead? You can get those supercharged too.
Lots of them out there, they are cheap and sporty.

here let me cut explain how a business works.

Cadillac is part of GM. If cadillac loses money overall, they could have the best selling car in america, in the end it will not matter as that best selling car goes to another GM brand and the failing brands gets swept under the rug. See oldmobile for that very outcome.

With GM losing as much money as they are. They are looking for profits. The ONLY way they are going to make a profit is with sheer volume. With that said.

The only other American car that has a 6 digit price tag from factory is the Ford GT 500 and those have about a 10 day stay at the dealers lot which is well below the 60-70 days for most other cars. But guess what the GT500 has that the XLR does not. Heritage and HISTORY in racing. Ford knows this and anyone that has any knowledge in racing knows the history of the Original Ford GT's. Acid dipped bodies, switched numbers and all. Of course losing money and trying to hawk a high ticket car, not going to happen very well.

here let me cut explain how a business works.

Cadillac is part of GM. If cadillac loses money overall, they could have the best selling car in america, in the end it will not matter as that best selling car goes to another GM brand and the failing brands gets swept under the rug. See oldmobile for that very outcome.

With GM losing as much money as they are. They are looking for profits. The ONLY way they are going to make a profit is with sheer volume. With that said.

The only other American car that has a 6 digit price tag from factory is the Ford GT 500 and those have about a 10 day stay at the dealers lot which is well below the 60-70 days for most other cars. But guess what the GT500 has that the XLR does not. Heritage and HISTORY in racing. Ford knows this and anyone that has any knowledge in racing knows the history of the Original Ford GT's. Acid dipped bodies, switched numbers and all. Of course losing money and trying to hawk a high ticket car, not going to happen very well.

Ahh, you're a businessman. I must have missed what you drive. Care to enlighten us on that?

here let me cut explain how a business works.

Thanks for the "education", seems pretty unenlightened to me but you are definitely entitled to your opinion. Just as I am entitled to mine.
I'd also say that your points fall pretty short of the stated objective.

There are many ways to run a business.
One is "sheer volume", another is making a quality product and controlling the price. There are also many methods in between.
While I do see a shade of truth to your comments most of them seem unsupported by fact.

The XLR and XLR-V are halo cars for the Cadillac brand. They are NOT volume vehicles. The Bowling Green plant also makes plenty of Corvettes, so XLR sales are just icing on the cake.

The XLR and XLR-V are halo cars for the Cadillac brand. They are NOT volume vehicles. The Bowling Green plant also makes plenty of Corvettes, so XLR sales are just icing on the cake.

I was going to agree with the Halo car....if that car wasn't $100,000 then there would ppl who would not look at it. The same argument comes up now and again with the Corvette....its a lot of car for the money...it can run with a porsche, ferrari....but the guys who buy the latter two won't be a vette because its too cheap...


Besides, who ever said Cadillac didn't have racing history better go check on that...

Thanks for the "education", seems pretty unenlightened to me but you are definitely entitled to your opinion. Just as I am entitled to mine.
I'd also say that your points fall pretty short of the stated objective.

There are many ways to run a business.
One is "sheer volume", another is making a quality product and controlling the price. There are also many methods in between.
While I do see a shade of truth to your comments most of them seem unsupported by fact.


and here is the difference between me and you. You state opinions. I state FACTS. Facts are not debatable, opinions are ;)

I was going to agree with the Halo car....if that car wasn't $100,000 then there would ppl who would not look at it. The same argument comes up now and again with the Corvette....its a lot of car for the money...it can run with a porsche, ferrari....but the guys who buy the latter two won't be a vette because its too cheap...


Besides, who ever said Cadillac didn't have racing history better go check on that...


1956? then stayed out until 2002 and lost in the lemans series... you know what they say about being 2nd... it is another way of saying loser.

Ahh, you're a businessman. I must have missed what you drive. Care to enlighten us on that?


I could drive a yugo or an S500 or a X (where X = what ever car you think I own). I pur chase cars based on what I think not what everyone else thinks, and in the end, what I drive is irrelevant to the point.

I want fast? I have that covered. I want quick and fast, I Have that covered. Snow on the ground? I have that covered.

The XLR and XLR-V are halo cars for the Cadillac brand. They are NOT volume vehicles. The Bowling Green plant also makes plenty of Corvettes, so XLR sales are just icing on the cake.

edit:

you know what, i change my mind. You guys want to pay $100k, more power to you! :)

My opinions are based on fact.
Your facts appear to be based on your opinion.

People that overpay for cars keep car companies alive.
So what if it's overpriced?

The main difference I see between you and me is that I respect your opinion, even if I think it's wrong.

Don't worry, your are right, it's the rest of us that are all screwed up.
;)

Overpay is relative..

to end my rebutal with cadillac and image I am going to use three words

Allante
Cimmaron
Catera

and I am exiting stage left :)

I could drive a yugo or an S500 or a X (where X = what ever car you think I own). I pur chase cars based on what I think not what everyone else thinks, and in the end, what I drive is irrelevant to the point.


Lol....you're telling a group of XLR enthusiasts that you buy cars based on what you think not by what everyone else thinks. Yeah, we all know XLR owners got their cars because everyone in the neighborhood happens to have one.

Seriously, if you drove anything halfway descent why wouldn't you tell someone that asked (irrelevant or not)? There are guys on Ferrarichat that have a half dozen Ferraris and post photos and aren't afraid to do so. Its not like the guy asked for your CC info or SS #.

That aside, news flash....all luxury cars are overpriced.

What the MSRP states and what a dealer is willing to sell a car to you for are two completely different things in case you didn't know that.

Lol....you're telling a group of XLR enthusiasts that you buy cars based on what you think not by what everyone else thinks. Yeah, we all know XLR owners got their cars because everyone in the neighborhood happens to have one.

Seriously, if you drove anything halfway descent why wouldn't you tell someone that asked (irrelevant or not)? There are guys on Ferrarichat that have a half dozen Ferraris and post photos and aren't afraid to do so. Its not like the guy asked for your CC info or SS #.

That aside, news flash....all luxury cars are overpriced.

What the MSRP states and what a dealer is willing to sell a car to you for are two completely different things in case you didn't know that.

well meet the first guy that doesn't.

as the old 7up commercial said, never have, never will. As I have stated on other car board, i have zero to prove to anyone. ;) The people that know are by my own choosing. The ferrari guys want to post thier collection, more power to them! I don't post anything :)

as for MSRP and dealer selling car. I am well aware of all the hold backs, manufacture to dealer incetives etc to know full well about that ;)

1956? then stayed out until 2002 and lost in the lemans series... you know what they say about being 2nd... it is another way of saying loser.

Cadillac did well in the 1954 Carrera Panamerica, performance wise they were the first company to introduce the first american V8 engine in 1914 and there was the V16 they first introduced in 1929.

Overpay is relative..

to end my rebutal with cadillac and image I am going to use three words

Allante
Cimmaron
Catera

and I am exiting stage left :)

Couldn't find stage left?:bigroll:

My opinions are based on the fact that I like to smell my own farts.

The old 7up slogan was "Never Had it... Never Will".
It does seem suitable for you based on what I see of your posts to date.


Sorry for the jab, I couldn't resist.

My opinions are based on the fact that I like to smell my own farts.

:helpless:

And that concludes our show for the evening!