: W. O. T!



infin1ty
10-03-05, 06:37 PM
With gas prices - is anyone still doing their recommended WOTs?:alchi:

94CaddyConcours
10-03-05, 10:11 PM
I DO:tease:

Rich_M
10-03-05, 11:56 PM
I do. I can't help myself. The right foot takes control.

WoodShoe
10-03-05, 11:56 PM
I cant be the only one that WOTs at least 20 to 30 times a day.... at least its clean in there :yup:

blunted
10-04-05, 12:46 AM
Dont even get me started on this one.. :burn:

davesdeville
10-04-05, 04:08 AM
The extra couple cents is worth it to me. I don't really care if my car were to start burning a bit of oil, I just do it for the fun of it anyway.

Marshall
10-05-05, 01:09 AM
Important WOT operating procedure:

Windows must be down! So you can hear that Northstar sing!!

Eldyfig
10-05-05, 02:05 AM
It's part of my budget. Wife keeps asking me what WOT means in our budget planner.

Wenatchee Andy
10-05-05, 08:26 AM
Its most gratifying to employ WOT with a passenger in the DeVille who's unfamiliar with the Northstar feeling. :lildevil:

fpmesiIII
10-05-05, 10:51 AM
"It's part of my budget. Wife keeps asking me what WOT means in our budget planner."

- haha that is awesome. tell her its a wise investment.


"Its most gratifying to employ WOT with a passenger in the DeVille who's unfamiliar with the Northstar feeling. "

- yes it is, but sometimes they think you are gonna get them killed.

blunted
10-05-05, 02:10 PM
- yes it is, but sometimes they think you are gonna get them killed.

Correction.. with me they ALWAYS think they're gonna get killed, especially with the sound of aftermarket exhaust. Ehh.. they learn after the first time though, what's even better is the look on the drivers face next to you when the Northstar starts roaring. :lildevil:

infin1ty
10-05-05, 10:49 PM
6,000+ RPMs x 8 cyl x 4 valves/cyl is pretty exciting!

fullserviceman
10-06-05, 12:39 AM
Mine torque steers so damn bad I think Im going to get killed, tis why I never did it again. Why am I the only one?

Eldyfig
10-06-05, 12:54 AM
Just do it on a fair straight away. I took off around a slight corner wanting to put an old 5.0 with flowmasters in its place. Had to get it under control. Probably looked like an idiot. I got it straight and showed the 5.0 my back side.

brmurph
10-06-05, 08:57 PM
Mine torque steers so damn bad I think Im going to get killed, tis why I never did it again. Why am I the only one?
Just FYI, I found that better quality tires seem to have a lot less torque steer (not saying you don't have quality tires). Just a thought.

blunted
10-06-05, 09:54 PM
Mine torque steers so damn bad I think Im going to get killed, tis why I never did it again. Why am I the only one?

Your not! I almost shit myself twice cause of this.. but it never happens as bad if i'm going like 35 and then floor it. Its at its wo.rst when its from a dead stop. I dont think tires have much to do with it, i'm running Falken Azenis ST115's 245/40/18 which are pretty sticky.

fullserviceman
10-07-05, 01:35 AM
Well for mine it seems ok only if you are doing 55mph or so then drop the peddle to the ground. It doesnt seem to downshift allthe way that way. Once the black smoke settles it is almost as powerful as my 96 LT1 caprice was.:)

MACTICULOUS
10-07-05, 11:31 AM
I'm pretty sure that I've done this before but let me ask...

By WOT, you guys mean flooring it which lets the car haul major ass past people, right? If the answer is yes, then I'm guilty of it http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/devil.gif. By the way, how often should it be done?
-Mac

krimson_cardnal
10-07-05, 03:56 PM
Till you go blind............... :yup:

powerglide
10-07-05, 11:41 PM
My car cruises at 95 MPH for about 2 minutes, twice a day every week day.

Carbon on the rings.....no chance!

EcSTSatic
10-08-05, 01:02 AM
Till you go blind............... :yup:

I thought it was until you need glasses! http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/shhh.gif

alhalljr
10-08-05, 02:22 AM
Twice a day everyday is not enough I only wake up when I hear my N* sing on the highway in the morning on my way to work. Looking at the persons face in the car next to you is the most fun when you slam on the pedal!! They know and we know they wish they had a N* so they could do a W.O.T too!! :cool:

davesdeville
10-08-05, 05:06 AM
My theory is if you aren't seeing red and blue every couple years, you aint tryin'. :cool:

Just kidding of course, obey all local laws... and such...

krimson_cardnal
10-08-05, 09:50 AM
I thought it was until you need glasses! http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/shhh.gif

Started wearing glasses 17yrs ago, stunted my growth 30yrs back...... :cool:

lry99eldo
10-08-05, 10:36 AM
I have a question about all this WOT stuff I'm reading in the various places I see it in our Caddy site here. Carbon and rings? Oil build up and rings "moving"? Oil consumption high do to oil being "burned", is that meant to say oil is bypassing the oil control rings set, the secondary compression ring and the primary combustion ring?
Yes, rings "move", there has to be some movement for them to be assembled alone, then to consider their function. Rings take quite a beating as it is, and I doubt that they take that much more of a beating during short WOT periods over a good 5 to 10 mile cruise. They are set into grooves that are only 3 to 5 thousandths larger than the ring thickness. They are gapped to close with 12 or so thousandths to allow for expansion, and their greatest movement is more a rocking motion than rotating. True, they can get carboned up, I've seen it many times and had them break and cause all sorts of havoc. But never in a well maintained engine with good oil filters and proper change schedules. Ring malfunction usually results in the primary compression ring gapping or getting carboned up and breaking the the top land width of the piston. this does not occur all that often in all engines, let alone just N*'s.
Is it that the WOT is more to cleaning out combustion chamber carbon build up AND helping to remove injector varnishing by providing a higher volume of fuel at pressure through the orfices and maintianing injector pulse mechanics by mere execise? Also, valve carbon build up can also cause considerable preformance loses. Both at the valve back closing down the volume and flow of the mixture if not injected directly into the chamber rather than the runner just behind the valve, and any of the surrounding areas of the valve seat and valve edges within the combustion chamber itself. Add in that the spark plug benifits also by the heat, volume of fuel and air, and shear mixture movement and combustion volume. The black smoke you want to see during this exercise is probably more likely the inability of the engine being able to completely burn the added mixture volume until it does clear crap at the spark plug to allow for better grounding and more complete flame travel through the combustion chamber.
lry99eldo

Ranger
10-08-05, 12:34 PM
Yes, I think it is meant to say that oil is bypassing the rings due to the cylinder finish. If you go to the top left of this page. click on Technical Archives and read up on OIL CONSUMPTION, it is explained much better than I could attemp to.

Eldyfig
10-08-05, 01:20 PM
I rarely get any puffs of black smoke anymore. Guess my system is cleaned out.

lry99eldo
10-08-05, 02:11 PM
Cylinder finish? Hmmmmmm. I've heard here that the cross hatching from the original honing is still very visible in many N*'s torn down. I believe that the oil "consumption" is just that. During the life of a properly working positive crankcase ventilation system it would be very easy to understand that close to a quart consumed through this system every 1K to 1.5K more feasable than ring bypass in a 10:1 compression high output engine. If it were to bypass the rings as easily as it seems to be thought then lose of compression and high blowby would be more evident. Given that there is a really nice windage tray to prevent back slinging onto the crankshaft as the oil slashes back into the pan sump the oil misting is usually very high making it easily scavenged into the PVC system thereby placing the oil into the combustion chamber to be consumed there. This in turn is what's causing the need to blow out the carbon and combustion residue via WOT. Oil control rings are very effective in doing there job in preventing the oil to rise to the compression rings and still provide proper cylinder wall lubrication. It's sort of like the thinking that a connecting rod's hardest job is to stay together during the power stroke, where as it's most stressed time is really when the crank stops the piston and yanks it back down again.
I'm not convinced that ring bypass is at all connected to as high an oil consumption as it seems to be understood here in this site. I am convinced though that an occasional WOT is good for almost every engine to help consume built up crude ABOVE the top compression ring. I don't ever remember pulling a piston from a well worn engine and seeing any evidence of much of anything getting by this ring unless there was complete failure of the ring/s.
I just want to see a more lively discussion on this subject rather that asuming it's ring bypass that is the culprit to the oil consumption and that WOT "loosens" the rings due to some concieved sludge buildup. Does WOT actually reduce this oil consumption? No. The consumption is the same, yet creating higher heat by inducing more fuel mixture volume at WOT will burn out a good portion of tuning and performance inhibitor caused by the PVC system. It is thought that over the life of any car that to run the crankcase oil mist through the combustion chamber is better for the environment than solid particles being released directly into the air rather than a down vent dumping onto the road as it used to be.
lry99eldo

Eldyfig
10-08-05, 06:07 PM
I do some WOTs when I get the cold carbon rap, not for oil consumption issues. Since my last oil change, I just recently added a quart after about 4000 miles, 16% oil life. I don't think that is too bad, considering I would change any other car's oil at about 3500 miles, not needing to drop in an extra quart.

I have read a couple years ago over on caddyinfo that a screwed up pcv valve could increase oil consumption. So I am with you on that added aspect.

Ranger
10-08-05, 06:54 PM
Well, as our former friend explained it many times, cylinder finish was only a part of the equation. I wish I had saved all those posts. He has sworn that many a "oil burner" have been cured by WOT treatment. I have heard others on this site as well as Caddyinfo swear by it as well. Other than that, I am not knowledable enough about it to argue the subject one way or the other. His word is good enough for me, so I dish out a dose once a week or so.

The one thing I can tell you is that I personally do not worry about a little oil consumption like I did when I first bought the car. Now that I understand it a little better (I think), I happily add a quart and drive on knowing that I have just fortified the oil additives til the next change.

JimD
10-08-05, 08:16 PM
Well, as our former friend explained it many times, cylinder finish was only a part of the equation. I wish I had saved all those posts. He has sworn that many a "oil burner" have been cured by WOT treatment. I have heard others on this site as well as Caddyinfo swear by it as well. Other than that, I am not knowledable enough about it to argue the subject one way or the other. His word is good enough for me, so I dish out a dose once a week or so....


I was able to save a few of those (Northstar) piston ring / cylinder wall seminar posts and have read and reread them many times. Even if the WOT procedure did not eliminate oil 'consumption', it certainly can reduce oil consumption simply by producing a cylinder pressure condition that encourages / allows the rings to rotate. Never a mention of PCV action being a factor.

The high RPM, high load, high cylinder pressure condition under WOT loads the rings in one direction. And the high vacuum condition under compression braking loads (or unloads, if you prefer) the rings in the other direction.

Freeing up the rings in the lands allows them to rotate as designed. And the rotation is important for sealing.

When I see a brown cloud in the mirror during a WOT maneuver, I know it has been too long between WOTs. Never have seen a black cloud in the mirror; but if I ever did, I would investigate the fuel delivery systems.

The procedure I have used successfully for more than 142,000 miles is: select transmission to 2; from 55 MPH go WOT to 70 - 80 MPH; compression brake down to 55 MPH and repeat 10 times.

It's even more fun to start the WOT from a speed that will cause a downshift to 1, but I recommend two hands on the steering wheel.

lry99eldo
10-08-05, 11:35 PM
Ah good, now we're getting somewhere. I have never thought, and still do not, that "vacuum" has anything to do with ring loading as well as high pressure. A piston usually has a tolerance of .0005 to .0015 skirt clearance on production engines. The piston is not round to allow for proper expansion because of the structual design around the piston pin bore and internal boss for the pin bore. The movement comes solely from the piston being set in motion upward and downward, not vacuum or pressure. The ring is there to seal these two things and not to be affected by either. The rings may oscilate back and forth in a circular motion maybe plus and minus 10 to 15 degrees if that, but I do not think they are designed to rotate as suggested. Otherwise they would never "seat" in an imperfect cylinder and once ring gap alligned/inline there would be instant blowby. The cross hatching is to create a labyrith to enhance sealing and facilitate lubrication as well as to provide the rings the opportunity to seat to the cylinder walls' imperfection of form. The movement is all linear and mechanical. If it were not for the rings providing such good sealing the PVC system would not work as well as it does. And that is truly my point here. Properly functioning rings do not allow oil consumption as it is suggested here in the discussions of WOT. The rings are in constant motion regardless of WOT or cruising. Overly rich fuel mixtures and malfunctioning PVC systems cause carbon and residue to collect in the combustion chamber beyond normal if that is the case. In the case of the N* as well as many if not all passenger car engines, it is the addition of oil vapors directed to the intake via the PVC system that requires a WOT to create heat, fuel, and above normal cylinder pressure cycles to help burn out and move these performance inhibitors. A properly functioning PVC system will by its mear nature add contaminents to the cylinder head and piston top while the rings prevent these to getting anywhere else in the cylinder. The number one compression ring will of course see some of this because the top piston land diameter is smaller than the the base diameter of the piston by as much as .015", again to allow for expansion as well as preventing damage. It is the weakest area of the piston. It is still to be proven to me that the rings have anything to do with it and the occasional need for WOT. Although I am prone to go WOT more often than not just because I'm an accerleration junky!
lry99eldo

MARK99STS
10-09-05, 07:19 PM
Mine torque steers so damn bad I think Im going to get killed, tis why I never did it again. Why am I the only one?



Put a limited slip dif in the tranny and you'll eliminate that problem.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-09-05, 09:57 PM
I W.O.T. all the time and i dont even have to!!!!

4.9 Baby!

D'Elegance
10-10-05, 09:49 PM
"I W.O.T. all the time and i dont even have to!!!!

4.9 Baby!"


HELL YEAH!!! :devil: Same here, WOT with the 4.9 just cause I can and I love to see the look on peoples faces as they get smoked by a grandpa car.:p

dhs
10-15-05, 04:18 AM
I live in the city so it's can be hard be able to get up to even 70. I was thinking that if I shift it into 1 instead of D then it will have just first gear. So if I go wide open it should reach 5600rpm under load. First gear tops out at about 30mph, so it could be done in a parking lot. I was just wondering what you guys think about this.

Dooman
10-15-05, 07:50 AM
After $4500 in one visit to a mecahnic, I definitely do not do anything that may cause it again, including the WOT thing from 55 to 80 a few times. I do use all the power when it's needed, I just do not do it for 'maintenance'.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-15-05, 10:58 AM
Doorman, what happened to your car?

thu
10-18-05, 04:06 PM
I do it from time to time out of necessity. Happens when I'm on an on-ramp to the freeway and the dolt head of me decides he/she is gonna try to merge at 40mph with the rest of the traffic doing 80. Once there's a break in traffic, I hammer the NorthStar and off she goes.
When my 93 Deville was running (that was up until a month ago), I'd take her up to the speed limiter every now and then. I'd WOT that puppy all the time. It has 298k and the tranny crapped out. RIP. :)
The engine on the 93 Deville is still good. Needs a tranny.

Dooman
10-18-05, 05:54 PM
Doorman, what happened to your car?
Headgaskets of course. While the engine was out I did all seals, gaskets, starter, alternator, battery, water pump, .. the list was a mile long.. right down to 4 brake rotors. I bought the car in 99 and just want to enjoy the STS now.. that was last November and I still feel the pain.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-20-05, 02:48 AM
wow that sucks

Dooman
10-20-05, 09:39 AM
I still wring it out hear and there, but I do not deliberately drop gears and do the up and down throttle.. Unless I want to pass.

danbuc
10-21-05, 12:43 AM
Doing WOT's didn't cause your headgasket to fail. High Cylinders pressures barely affect the headbolts, or gasket in the Northstar. What causes them to fail is excessive overheating, and corrosion from poorely maintained cooling systems.

High RPM operation does help seat the rings properly against the cylinder walls. The Northstar in general in known for developing high level of carbon buildup in a relatively short period of time, simply do to the design of the combustion chamber and other various components. This carbon buildup does reach the rings, and can cause them to stick. Performing a WOT frees the ring up by removing the excess carbon, allowing them to move and re-seat themselves against the cylinder walls. That's what B B O B was reffering to.

Dooman
10-21-05, 09:05 AM
My water pump caused the failure, I already know that. Perhaps if you had to pay that bill you'd understand that with over 145,000 miles on the car now I am trying not to create any more trouble. I am sure that the steady high rpm running cold magnify any trouble that may be brewing.. The car looks great, runs great and is basically worthless to anyone but me now..

powerglide
10-21-05, 01:55 PM
My water pump caused the failure, I already know that. Perhaps if you had to pay that bill you'd understand that with over 145,000 miles on the car now I am trying not to create any more trouble. I am sure that the steady high rpm running cold magnify any trouble that may be brewing.. The car looks great, runs great and is basically worthless to anyone but me now..


Yeah...you've entered that zone...that no mans land where you're forced to make a decision to drop 4 grand on a 8 year old car with high miles or scrap it and write it off......its all about babying that thing from now on. Good luck!

oldgamer
10-21-05, 05:08 PM
...By the way, how often should it be done?
-Mac
it should be done while you get black smoke, meaning that carbon still there.
If you don't see any black smoke while doing it, no point to do that.

crimson tide
10-22-05, 12:39 PM
OMG!!! I just recently found out about this procedure after joining this great site!! I still do it regardless of the gas prices,because the fun factor far out weigh the expense. Life's to short and the N* was built for performance and the body for comfort. I've been ranting and raving about how pleased I am with my recent purchase of a mint 01 Deville with good miles (45k when I got it) for 18k and its been worth every cent.The sound of the N* reving is music to my ears along with the gliding smoothness of the caddy as she rolls along at speed. My 94 Trans Am in comparison is a bone shaking feel every crease in the road BEAST. But the caddy puts the same smile on my face with a lot less drama!!:cool2:

Dooman
10-24-05, 01:53 PM
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely let the motor loose when I can. It hasn't even set a code in a year now, just wax and gas for me now.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-24-05, 04:42 PM
the N*'s are a great sounding motor! They sound as good as an old big block muscle car, but much more mature and smoother

blunted
11-05-05, 03:49 PM
I was wondering.. I WOT in D all the time, am I getting the same benefits? It still reaches a high shift point but just at higher speeds. Is doing it in 2nd to get the same benefits just while keeping it at a normal speed? Sorry to rehash this but I was just curious, since I rather do it in D.. doing it in 2nd seems to be more stressful on the transmission, which is something I'm trying to avoid after finding a little debris in my tranny pan.

JimD
11-05-05, 05:11 PM
I was wondering.. I WOT in D all the time, am I getting the same benefits? It still reaches a high shift point but just at higher speeds. Is doing it in 2nd to get the same benefits just while keeping it at a normal speed? Sorry to rehash this but I was just curious, since I rather do it in D.. doing it in 2nd seems to be more stressful on the transmission, which is something I'm trying to avoid after finding a little debris in my tranny pan.

Second gear provides the most benefit. From 35 to 45 MPH, WOT to 70 MPH or higher if safe to do so. This generates maximum cylinder pressure to load the piston rings.

Still in 2nd gear, let the engine compression brake the car down to 45 - 35 MPH. This produces maximum vacuum in the combustion chamber and unloads the piston rings.

Repeat several times to load and unload the piston rings repeatedly. This will promote rings that are not carbon bonded to the piston and are therefore free to rotate around the piston as they should. And of course, it will also dislodge carbon from the top surface of the piston.

When you can no longer see a cloud in the mirror under acceleration, you have done good.

fpmesiIII
11-05-05, 06:24 PM
when i do this say 1st time after a week since last WOT's, a big plume of id say dust? particles shoot out the tail pipe. i wouldnt say this plume is black in color. more of like a brownish color. but like after all this "smoke" shoots out it covers the whole highway. (kind of cool) any idea why this plume is brown instead of black?, and it shoots out a ton of this stuff.

davesdeville
11-06-05, 06:15 AM
doing it in 2nd seems to be more stressful on the transmission, which is something I'm trying to avoid after finding a little debris in my tranny pan.

Doing it in 2 will result in a firmer shift. A firm shift allows for less clutch slip. Less slip is actually better for the clutches...

auroradude
11-06-05, 01:40 PM
Yes it is a LOT firmer on my 4T80-E as well. I worried that it would do it more harm than good if I did that all the time....so are you saying that I should leave it in 2nd and gun the accelerator? lol.