: Checked out the new Viper today.



Ralph
11-29-03, 09:34 PM
Nice car, nice power, red, black leather, 500 hp, $129,000!!!!!! GAK! ($80,000 U.S.) Still I was impressed, except the price. This thing is all engine. Put an "H" on the hood and you could land a helicopter on it! The new Z06 Corvette is $77,000 cdn, and probably a bargan at that. If I was buying, I would want the Viper.

What would you choose and why?? (between the two, if these were your only choices)

elwesso
11-29-03, 10:32 PM
Id go with the viper... You see corvettes more than vipers..... Plus, 2 extra cylinders!!!

Brett
11-29-03, 11:09 PM
One of my best friends has owned 2 vipers. one RT/10 and one SRT-10. I wouldnt buy either of them. Keep in mind im 6'10 ish so that plays a large role. That being said. The Vette can be driven everyday, the Viper with its punishing ride, cramped quarters, and incessantly droning exhaust noise is best left as a fun car for the weekends

kcnewell
11-29-03, 11:32 PM
What would you choose and why?? (between the two, if these were your only choices)


I'd walk.

davesdeville
11-29-03, 11:52 PM
I'd take the viper. It's just a bit more pimp than a vette. If I had that much cash though I'd make a twin-single turbo 500 (2 engines) 74 Eldo... I'm sure it could be done for 80 g's.

Ralph
11-30-03, 01:08 AM
One of my best friends has owned 2 vipers. one RT/10 and one SRT-10. I wouldnt buy either of them. Keep in mind im 6'10 ish so that plays a large role. That being said. The Vette can be driven everyday, the Viper with its punishing ride, cramped quarters, and incessantly droning exhaust noise is best left as a fun car for the weekends


Not to mention, only something like 8 cu. ft. of luggage space limits it to a weekend fantasy car. Still I would expect and want a loud exhaust, it would scare Civics. I noticed how low you sit and and if you are not careful, you get a nice whack on the side of your head from the windshield edge.

I'm sorry KC, anyone that is not impressed by 500 hp doesn't deserve a ride in my Cadillac. :rolleyes: bouncer:

MMNineInchNails
11-30-03, 01:13 AM
I'd take the vette. Insurance is way too much for the viper and I'd be tempted to WOT 24/7. MUAHAHAHHAA. interior is better in a vette too.

Mad'lac
11-30-03, 01:23 AM
I rather spend my money on a Saleen S7.
http://www.spiceisle.com/homepages/glouison/Sports%20Cars/saleen_S7_2001.jpg

Ralph
11-30-03, 02:09 AM
I'd take the vette. Insurance is way too much for the viper and I'd be tempted to WOT 24/7. MUAHAHAHHAA. interior is better in a vette too.

I bet you see a lot of them in California.

davesdeville
11-30-03, 02:47 AM
I saw another viper this week, bringing the count up to 3 vipers in Albuquerque (or repaints..). So there's one viper per 233,333 people.

Ralph
11-30-03, 02:55 AM
We've got a few here, but they are the older style, like 1994 or 5. We have one Ferrari 348, yellow, in town, belongs to the son of wealthy property owners. We have 212,ooo people here. I do think the Vettes are more common. When I saw the 348 up close I thought it was a "kit car" like a Fiero with the kit, but I was wrong. I know the F50 Ferarri has just over 500 hp but the Viper has more hp than other models of Ferarri.

NineIn; you mentioned you liked the interior of the new Vette, but it has been criticized for looking too plasticy and monotone, yet it looks no better than the SRT-10's

Ralph
11-30-03, 03:07 AM
Mad'Lac, that pic looks so much like a McLaren!

The Ferrari 550 Barchetta has 485 hp and a top speed of 186 mph.
The Austin Martin Vanquish (V12) has 450 hp, and a top speed of 190 mph.
The Viper has these beat, but don't know the hp on a McLaren, or your Saleen.

BeelzeBob
11-30-03, 11:05 AM
I'd take the Vette. I don't want something that burns my legs while I'm driving. If it were an option, I'd even more-so take the new Z06. It'll be faster and more comfortable (with no plastic interior) - AND damn sexy...

kcnewell
11-30-03, 12:05 PM
I'm sorry KC, anyone that is not impressed by 500 hp doesn't deserve a ride in my Cadillac. :rolleyes: bouncer:


I'm impressed by 500 horsepower but not by either one of those cars. By the way if I wanted to be impressed by 500 horsepower why would I want to ride in your car? It wouldn't have 500 horsepower unless you were pushing it with a Peterbilt (550 Caterpillar) and under those circumstances it would be exciting but not all that much fun!

MMNineInchNails
11-30-03, 12:26 PM
My friend has a ZO6 so i get rides and such :)

Mad'lac
11-30-03, 12:40 PM
Horsepower is not everything. I mean.....Vipers are nice but they can never be in the same league with Ferrari or Lambo. I mean you want horsepower take any car from the NHRA.



Puny Viper....step off before you get hurt!!!
http://www.nhraonline.com/2001/news/November/photos/photo23.jpg

Blackout
11-30-03, 05:14 PM
New Viper is ugly as hell. I'd rather have the older one. The interior is average at best with the same headunit I can get in a Neon SXT *for $80k give me a different friggin head unit!* and the Z06 does nothing for me. I'd rather have a ZR-1. But me personally would rather have a new Cobra and then have $50k for mod's.

gothicaleigh
11-30-03, 08:47 PM
I know this is going to sound cliche at a Caddy site, but I would go with the XLR for that price. Sure, it's not going to win races against the other two, but it makes up for it in pure style. Pictures don't do it justice. There is a certain presence when you stand next to one or slide behind the wheel.

Ralph
11-30-03, 09:03 PM
I know this is going to sound cliche at a Caddy site, but I would go with the XLR for that price. Sure, it's not going to win races against the other two, but it makes up for it in pure style. Pictures don't do it justice. There is a certain presence when you stand next to one or slide behind the wheel.

Good choice! However, aren't they on a shared platform with the Vette?

Sal, it's cold up here now, I don't mind my feet all warm and toasty. :D

elwesso
11-30-03, 09:13 PM
I do agree that the corvette can be a daily driver.... But you said if I had to choose right now, Id still take the viper...... Around here, vipers arent common at all (ive seen 2 in 100 sq miles), and Id still have the Q45 for daily use....

Ralph
11-30-03, 10:13 PM
Horsepower is not everything. I mean.....Vipers are nice but they can never be in the same league with Ferrari or Lambo. I mean you want horsepower take any car from the NHRA.



Puny Viper....step off before you get hurt!!!
http://www.nhraonline.com/2001/news/November/photos/photo23.jpg


If Vipers cannot compete with Ferrari, or are "puny" here are some numbers for you;(courtesy of Motor Trend Nov. 2002)

"At just 2,000 rpm, the Viper's motor is generating a whooping 344 lb-ft of torque. At 2,000 rpm the Vette is making a quite respectable, but lower 235. The Corvette is also making a large piece of the peak torque it'll deliver at 4900. But the dyno numbers show the Viper comes hard out of the low-rev hole. At just 3700 rpm, it delivers it's peak torque of 482 lb-ft. This characteristic is what gives the Dodge its feeling of effortless, rocket-like punch. It also allows the engine to turn low revs at highway speeds with plenty of reserve muscle for a lane change.."

"The Vette engine is a tad more relaxed at delivering its peak torque, and there isn't much grunt in its tall sixth gear. But the 5.7 revs climb fast. And once it gets in the upper range above 5000, its generating power approaching that of the big 10. Therefore the Vette seems to appreciate being in the proper gear and closer to the redline when driven on the track."

Quarter mile times are as follows;

Vette= 12.85@114.36
Viper= 12.37@117.21

Does anyone know some Ferrari or Lambo numbers?

davesdeville
11-30-03, 11:16 PM
2000 rpm and a 500 is pushing 450# torque.. I'm liking it more and more as a street engine.

Back on topic, if you can afford a SVT Cobra, good you can run a 13.10. If you can afford a corvette, good you can run a 12.85. If you can afford a viper, good you can run a 12.37. If you can afford a CLK-GTR, good you can run 10.60. They're all in differant price ranges so it's pretty useless to compare.

Mad'lac
11-30-03, 11:31 PM
Vette= 12.85@114.36
Viper= 12.37@117.21

If thats all there is between them then I'll take a Vette and send it to Lingenfelter and have him build me a SnakeSkinner with the money I saved in not buying a Viper. $40000 for the Vette then $40000 more for the conversion and I got one BAD Vette!!!! I think this conversion is fair seeing how the Viper has 2 cylinders more than the Vette.

1997-2003 Corvette Twin Turbo LS1, ZO6
650 BHP / 600 lbs-ft of torque

226 MPH Top Speed
as tested by Motor Trend Magazine - March 2000



Package includes:
Engine removal, inspection and disassembly LS1 block preparation and blueprinting CNC porting & polishing of LS1 cylinder heads LPE valve springs, titanium retainers 3 angle valve job, set spring tensions LPE custom hydraulic roller camshaft Custom forged aluminum pistons Billet steel connecting rods Computer balanced rotating assembly Re-assembly and blueprinting of the engine Two true ball bearing turbochargers Two high efficiencyair to aircharge coolers Custom molded Samco silicone air ducts 4 into 1 custom exhaust manifolds Two turbo outlet adapters Turbocharger scavenge pump Turbo oil drain reservoir Corsa stainless steel exhaust system Two K&N 360 degree conical air filters Heat shields and stainless clamps High capacity fuel delivery system 650 TT fuel injectors Numbered dash plate Professional installation, testing and tuning Chassis dyno report 2 year/24,000 mile warranty 1997-2002 Corvette package price

Manual transmission $ 39,995.00
Automatic transmission $2,595.00

OR for another $9000 I get more power.
1997-2003 Corvette Twin Turbo LS1, ZO6
427 CID 725 BHP / 650 lbs-ft of torque

0-60 MPH 3.2 seconds with street tires
1/4 mile 9.50 @ 145 MPH with street tires
Estimated top speed 230+

Ralph
12-01-03, 02:11 AM
2000 rpm and a 500 is pushing 450# torque.. I'm liking it more and more as a street engine.

Back on topic, if you can afford a SVT Cobra, good you can run a 13.10. If you can afford a corvette, good you can run a 12.85. If you can afford a viper, good you can run a 12.37. If you can afford a CLK-GTR, good you can run 10.60. They're all in differant price ranges so it's pretty useless to compare.

I am interested in comparing price and how much horsepower you get for it. It seems like the Vette and the Cobra are a bargain. Both of these should be able to be modded a little to see similar results of a Viper IMO. Mad Lac and I discussed this before, but according to "Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords" July 2002, the quarter mile times for the new SVT supercharged Cobra are 12.79@106.39 mph. In the same issue they compared to the 2002 Anniversary Camaro and it did a 13.25@106.42 mph. Very close indeed! Now it looks like the Cobra is even more of a bargain! Also tested was a BMW M3 with 333hp and it did a 12.74 @108mph in 37 degree weather!!?

Now, the thing about the Cobra is that it is rated at 390 hp at 6000 rpm. It produced 381 at the rear wheels, an indication that the actual output is well over 400 at the flywheel! It has also been estimated, and I've read elsewhere, that the actual output of the Cobra is 425hp, but it is underrated from the factory.

With the exception of the totally exotic Mercedes you mention, I am willing to wager that the Viper could "run" with many far more expensive cars like the Ferrari F50 at just over 500 hp, I think it's 512 or something? Where are my Lambo numbers?

Ralph
12-01-03, 02:14 AM
Mad Lac, that Lingy Vette is a total kick-butt machine, but my worry would lie in the cost and availability of parts to maintain that exotic thing. If I had the others, I just go to the Dodge, Chevy, or Ford dealership. :D

Devil_concours
12-01-03, 02:42 AM
I am interested in comparing price and how much horsepower you get for it. It seems like the Vette and the Cobra are a bargain. Both of these should be able to be modded a little to see similar results of a Viper IMO. Mad Lac and I discussed this before, but according to "Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords" July 2002, the quarter mile times for the new SVT supercharged Cobra are 12.79@106.39 mph. In the same issue they compared to the 2002 Anniversary Camaro and it did a 13.25@106.42 mph. Very close indeed! Now it looks like the Cobra is even more of a bargain! Also tested was a BMW M3 with 333hp and it did a 12.74 @108mph in 37 degree weather!!?

Now, the thing about the Cobra is that it is rated at 390 hp at 6000 rpm. It produced 381 at the rear wheels, an indication that the actual output is well over 400 at the flywheel! It has also been estimated, and I've read elsewhere, that the actual output of the Cobra is 425hp, but it is underrated from the factory.

With the exception of the totally exotic Mercedes you mention, I am willing to wager that the Viper could "run" with many far more expensive cars like the Ferrari F50 at just over 500 hp, I think it's 512 or something? Where are my Lambo numbers?

Viper will not be able to compete with f50. I repeat viper cannot compete with f50.
Anyways you guys forgot Ford GT.

Ralph
12-01-03, 02:54 AM
Viper will not be able to compete with f50. I repeat viper cannot compete with f50.
Anyways you guys forgot Ford GT.

Proof, I need PROOF! Naw, you're probably right, I forgot that Ferrari uses aluminum for their body panals and they are probably a lot lighter than the Viper's 3380 lbs. The F50 is a V12 if I remember correctly. But what are you talkin', you talkin' handling, or raw hp numbers?

I have yet to see a new GT40, but aren't they also 500hp?

Devil_concours
12-01-03, 02:56 AM
Proof, I need PROOF! Naw, you're probably right, I forgot that Ferrari uses aluminum for their body panals and they are probably a lot lighter than the Viper's 3380 lbs. The F50 is a V12 if I remember correctly. But what are you talkin', you talkin' handling, or raw hp numbers?

I have yet to see a new GT40, but aren't they also 500hp?

Everything.
Handling, braking, acceleration, top speed.

IRC, when the f50 was testdriven back in the days, it ran 3.1~3.2sec 0-60 and top speeds in 200s. This car uses no rubber pieces in the suspension which is bolted right on to the gear box. Pure f1 car in road car skin.
Flat cornering anytime anywhere.

Ralph
12-01-03, 03:09 AM
Everything.
Handling, braking, acceleration, top speed.

IRC, when the f50 was testdriven back in the days, it ran 3.1~3.2sec 0-60 and top speeds in 200s. This car uses no rubber pieces in the suspension which is bolted right on to the gear box. Pure f1 car in road car skin.
Flat cornering anytime anywhere.

0-60mph for the SRT10 is 4.12. Those are awsome numbers for the F50. Lets take it down to the F40 then. ;)

Blackout
12-01-03, 10:21 AM
I got this info from Ferrarichat.com

"On Rennteam.com, a guy reveals Car and Driver's results from this three way test. The Ford GT - 0 to 60 in 3.3!

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.ph...sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Test Data >> Ford GT - Ferrari CS - Porsche GT3

Lap time >> 1:32.13 - 1:34.19 - 1:34.15
(Gingerman Raceway 1.9 mile road course)

0 - 60 >> 3.3 - 4.0 - 4.0

0 - 100 >> 7.6 - 9.5 - 9.3

0 - 150 >> 16.9 - 23.9 - 23.9

1/4 mile >> 11.6@128 - 12.4@115 - 12.3@114

5 - 60 >> 3.7 - 4.4 - 4.7

Max Lat (g) >> 0.98 - 0.98 - 1.03

Braking 70 - 0 (ft) >> 153 - 167 - 167

Lane Change (MPH) >> 70.1 - 67.2 - 67.6"

those are some damn impressive times.
So in other words the GT own's all!!!! But anyways the Lambo's and Ferrari's in stock form are not 1/4 cars. Now you line up next to one at like a 70 mph roll they will own you cause that is what they are made for.

Blackout
12-01-03, 11:08 AM
here are some Lambo and Ferrari times. First numbers are 0-60 times and the second numbers are 1/4 times.

1979 Lamborghini Countach S 5.9 N/A
1982 Lamborghini Countach S 5.7 14.1
1986 Lamborghini Countach 5000S 5.2 13.7

1991 Lamborghini Diablo 4.4 13.2
1992 Lamborghini Diablo 4.5 13.3
1995 Lamborghini Diablo VT 4.7 13.2

1983 Lamborghini Jalpa 7.3 15.4

1968 Lamborghini Miura V12 6.3 14.5
1970 Lamborghini Miura S 5.5 13.9

And now ferrari

1967 Ferrari 275 GTS/4 NART 6.7 14.7

1977 Ferrari 308 GTB 8.2 17.0
1980 Ferrari 308 GTS 6.9 14.9
1981 Ferrari 308 - Dino GT4 7.8 N/A
1981 Ferrari 308 GTSi 7.9 N/A
1983 Ferrari 308 GTBi Quattrovalvole 6.8 15.2

1988 Ferrari 328 GTS 6.7 15.0

1968 Ferrari 330 GTS 6.9 14.9
1970 Ferrari 330 GTS 6.9 14.9

1995 Ferrari 333 SP 3.6 11.3

1990 Ferrari 348 tb 6.0 14.3
1993 Ferrari 348 tb Serie Speciale 5.6 14.0
1993 Ferrari 348 Spider 5.6 14.1

1998 Ferrari 355 F1 4.6 13.0

1986 Ferrari 412 6.7 15.0

1994 Ferrari 456 GT 4.8 13.3
1995 Ferrari 456 GT 5.1 13.4
1997 Ferrari 456 GTA 4.9 13.3
1998 Ferrari 456M 5.2 13.5

1978 Ferrari 512 Berlinetta Boxer 5.5 N/A
1982 Ferrari 512 Berlinetta Boxer 5.1 13.5
1992 Ferrari 512 TR 4.7 12.9

1973 Ferrari Dino Spyder 8.8 15.3
1974 Ferrari Dino 7.1 15.5

1995 Ferrari F355 Berlinetta 4.7 12.8
1996 Ferrari F355 Spider 4.9 13.4
1997 Ferrari F355 Berlinetta 4.8 13.2

1992 Ferrari F40 3.8 11.8

1986 Ferrari GTO 5.0 14.1

1982 Ferrari Mondial 8 9.4 17.1
1984 Ferrari Mondial Cabriolet 7.6 16.0
1986 Ferrari Mondial 3.2 7.1 15.3
1991 Ferrari Mondial t Cabrio 6.6 15.0

1985 Ferrari Testarossa 5.3 13.6
1986 Ferrari Testarossa 5.3 13.4
1989 Ferrari Testarossa 6.2 14.2

Devil_concours
12-01-03, 06:44 PM
I got this info from Ferrarichat.com

"On Rennteam.com, a guy reveals Car and Driver's results from this three way test. The Ford GT - 0 to 60 in 3.3!

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.ph...sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Test Data >> Ford GT - Ferrari CS - Porsche GT3

Lap time >> 1:32.13 - 1:34.19 - 1:34.15
(Gingerman Raceway 1.9 mile road course)

0 - 60 >> 3.3 - 4.0 - 4.0

0 - 100 >> 7.6 - 9.5 - 9.3

0 - 150 >> 16.9 - 23.9 - 23.9

1/4 mile >> 11.6@128 - 12.4@115 - 12.3@114

5 - 60 >> 3.7 - 4.4 - 4.7

Max Lat (g) >> 0.98 - 0.98 - 1.03

Braking 70 - 0 (ft) >> 153 - 167 - 167

Lane Change (MPH) >> 70.1 - 67.2 - 67.6"

those are some damn impressive times.
So in other words the GT own's all!!!! But anyways the Lambo's and Ferrari's in stock form are not 1/4 cars. Now you line up next to one at like a 70 mph roll they will own you cause that is what they are made for.

it has been determined in other forums that those numbers are either fake or fluke.
2 publications already posted their data of the gt and it runs 3.8sec 0-60. braking also lacked far behind viper

Mad'lac
12-01-03, 06:56 PM
Mad Lac, that Lingy Vette is a total kick-butt machine, but my worry would lie in the cost and availability of parts to maintain that exotic thing. If I had the others, I just go to the Dodge, Chevy, or Ford dealership. :D

Ralph....at what these cars cost....if you owned one then cost would not b a problem to you now would it? http://ftw.truckmoxie.com/forums/images/blingbling.gif (javascript:emoticon(':bling');) all about the dollars!!!

Blackout
12-01-03, 11:03 PM
I think the numbers are very possible. Its comes down to track prep and track conditions. The other tests could have been done where it is hot like at CA or something. This shootout was done in Germany *much colder there then where they usually test the cars out here in CA*

Ralph
12-02-03, 02:17 AM
Interesting info, it's good to see that the SRT10 matches or beats the Diablo, and several Ferraris.

Mad Lac, I suppose that's the truth, but I don't want to have it towed all the way to the Lingenfelter facility, I'd rather just go to a local dealership for any repair.

Ralph
12-02-03, 03:56 AM
New Viper is ugly as hell. I'd rather have the older one. The interior is average at best with the same headunit I can get in a Neon SXT *for $80k give me a different friggin head unit!* and the Z06 does nothing for me. I'd rather have a ZR-1. But me personally would rather have a new Cobra and then have $50k for mod's.

I kinda like the look of the new SRT10. It seems shorter, but wider? I guess people demanded Dodge bring back sidepipes, and I think the functional hoodscoop is cool. What's to stop the rain from getting the air filters wet though? :confused:

Night Wolf
12-02-03, 08:18 AM
hmmm, not that I even like this car... BUT just to kinda compare:

SRT-4 will do:

1/4 in 14.2s
0-60 in 5.8s
and pulls .85g's on the skidpad

all for $19k brand new
and a 7 year warrantee

that is just stock....

Sure, it is *just a Neon* but Dodge is really doing something there.... and if it came to it, I would take the SRT-4 over an import (Civic etc...)

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread/t-7295.html

Blackout
12-02-03, 09:42 AM
The only SRT-4 I would buy would be the 2003 model. Main reason being is that the 2002 doesnt come with a LSD while the 2003 does and also with some extra hp and tq. But for the price of a Viper I just don't think its worth it. I'd rather have a Cobra, NSX, M3, M5, STi, or an Evo.

Ralph
12-03-03, 01:52 AM
I just thought of something (yes, first time for everything :yawn: ) what about the Ram SRT-10. I mean this thing is technically a Viper, right? I wonder how it would stack-up against a Lightning, or a Viper. Is this the truck that will kick the Lightning with ease? (Damn I love comparing vehicles)

90devilleguy
12-03-03, 02:01 AM
We've got a few here, but they are the older style, like 1994 or 5. We have one Ferrari 348, yellow, in town, belongs to the son of wealthy property owners. We have 212,ooo people here. I do think the Vettes are more common. When I saw the 348 up close I thought it was a "kit car" like a Fiero with the kit, but I was wrong. I know the F50 Ferarri has just over 500 hp but the Viper has more hp than other models of Ferarri.

NineIn; you mentioned you liked the interior of the new Vette, but it has been criticized for looking too plasticy and monotone, yet it looks no better than the SRT-10's
Some really Rich guy in my town has a F40, i've seen it twice before.no BS.

Ralph
12-03-03, 02:06 AM
Some really Rich guy in my town has a F40, i've seen it twice before.no BS.

F40 is a serious machine, I think it was "top of the heap" about 10 years ago. I still like the styling of the Countaches of the '80's, but any powerful car could probably beat one today.

Devil_concours
12-03-03, 03:31 AM
I think the numbers are very possible. Its comes down to track prep and track conditions. The other tests could have been done where it is hot like at CA or something. This shootout was done in Germany *much colder there then where they usually test the cars out here in CA*

.5sec in 0-60 is very big. Even if the temperature varied that much unless it was done on very big downhill with tailwind i still don't think those numbers are valid

Blackout
12-03-03, 10:11 AM
Well the 0-60 for the SRT-10 Ram is 6.3 with a top speed of 150. But I'd rather have the Lightning or the Ford GT just due to the fact that they have a supercharger. When you want to just cruise put on the stock pulley. If you want to have fun at the track throw on a smaller pulley. You can't have that big of a power gain with a N/A engine for only $70

WAZR1
12-03-03, 07:48 PM
I'd rather have a ZR-1.
I'm with you. Having previously owned a 90 ZR-1 ( www.pnwzr1.net for some of our area cars ), I'd take another anyday. My next one will either come as, or become a 415 too.

I've driven a few C5's and they feel refined, but I swear GM took their best plastic and pleather left over from the Camaro's and stuffed it in the interiors. Still the Z-06 is a well balanced open track car. For all out power and speed the ZR-1 still cannot be topped.

As to the Vipers, I wouldn't mind one, but you'd think a car that huge would fit a guy that's 6' 2" weighing in at 300. The first one I ever sat in didn't. I shut the door and it bounced off my shoulder before the first latch caught. It was a GTS, I've heard the RT/10's are little more roomy. I'll give Dodge this though, from what I've heard they stand behind their car, where GM discontinues parts right and left for the ZR-1 (the windshield comes to mind).

WA ZR1

Ralph
12-04-03, 02:12 AM
Well the 0-60 for the SRT-10 Ram is 6.3 with a top speed of 150. But I'd rather have the Lightning or the Ford GT just due to the fact that they have a supercharger. When you want to just cruise put on the stock pulley. If you want to have fun at the track throw on a smaller pulley. You can't have that big of a power gain with a N/A engine for only $70

I really like the Lightnings also, but by your absence of the numbers for the Ford, I assume the Dodge wins? :D I found the seats to be perfectly comfortable for me, nice and firm.

I know that the Ford was 390 hp last year (I think) but I heard it is or will be around 500 this year or next, can you confirm? It seems obvious that the Ram is a lot heavier than the Viper.

Mad'lac
12-04-03, 02:16 AM
I really like the Lightnings also, but by your absence of the numbers for the Ford, I assume the Dodge wins? :D I found the seats to be perfectly comfortable for me, nice and firm.

I know that the Ford was 390 hp last year (I think) but I heard it is or will be around 500 this year or next, can you confirm? It seems obvious that the Ram is a lot heavier than the Viper.Here you go Ralph...keep in mind that this is the Concept version...but I'm sure Ford will keep it real close seeing how Dodge is challenging them for the Baddest truck title.
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=14096

Ralph
12-04-03, 02:17 AM
I'm with you. Having previously owned a 90 ZR-1 ( www.pnwzr1.net for some of our area cars ), I'd take another anyday. My next one will either come as, or become a 415 too.

I've driven a few C5's and they feel refined, but I swear GM took their best plastic and pleather left over from the Camaro's and stuffed it in the interiors. Still the Z-06 is a well balanced open track car. For all out power and speed the ZR-1 still cannot be topped.

As to the Vipers, I wouldn't mind one, but you'd think a car that huge would fit a guy that's 6' 2" weighing in at 300. The first one I ever sat in didn't. I shut the door and it bounced off my shoulder before the first latch caught. It was a GTS, I've heard the RT/10's are little more roomy. I'll give Dodge this though, from what I've heard they stand behind their car, where GM discontinues parts right and left for the ZR-1 (the windshield comes to mind).

WA ZR1

Was the ZR1 the Vette that came with a Valet lock-out feature for the engine power? If so, what was the hp w/o it? If I recall Lotus made the engine, is it hard to get engine parts?

Ralph
12-04-03, 02:35 AM
Here you go Ralph...keep in mind that this is the Concept version...but I'm sure Ford will keep it real close seeing how Dodge is challenging them for the Baddest truck title.
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=14096

So if thats the concept or prototype version and Lightning is still at 390? That means RIGHT NOW Dodge could have the fastest truck? According to the same mag that I used numbers from before, there is a "Johnny Lightning" pulley (6 lb.) for $255 increased power to 430 and torque to 545!! You were right BlackoutSpec. According to my new Dodge Ram brochure, the new SRT-10's torque is 525 ft. lbs. So I am guessing that in stock form, the Dodge kicks ass! :devil:

Ralph
12-04-03, 02:37 AM
Also about the Lightning, it was mentioned that the stock tranny isn't beefy enough for the long haul and something has to be upgraded for long-term durability, I'll try to dig up the article.

Blackout
12-04-03, 09:43 AM
Well as for the Dodge SRT-10 Ram that thing is a joke. Automobile magazine and Motor Trend just got done testing the thing. Automobile got a 13.9 in the 1/4 and MT got a 13.8 in the 1/4. But SVT is taking a break at the end of this year and isn't making any new SVT products until the 2005 or 2006 model year. But with the Ford GT, Rousch is the team that is tuning the GT's engine and they say its putting out somewhere in the 570+ hp range, so Ford is underrating it. But sources have also leaked that the next Gen Lightning will be getting the Ford GT's engine but slightly detuned and they say to expect it to have 540 hp.

BeelzeBob
12-04-03, 10:29 AM
I might take a ZR-1 over a Z06 myself.. I love the looks of the C4. I had one before my Fleetwood..

The SRT-4 is really amazing for the money. I like that little thing..

What's so impressive about the Viper is what it is for the money. Sure, it's more expensive than the Cobra or the Z06 - but it's closer in-league to makes like the Ferrari and Lambourghini.. Isn't it?

The question I have is - what happens when the C6 Z06 is faster than the Viper and costs $55-$60k? That's going to be a phenominal deal...

Blackout
12-04-03, 10:59 AM
i think the better deal is when the next gen. Cobra comes out

WAZR1
12-04-03, 02:37 PM
Was the ZR1 the Vette that came with a Valet lock-out feature for the engine power? If so, what was the hp w/o it? If I recall Lotus made the engine, is it hard to get engine parts?

That's the one. Lotus designed the engine for GM and was hampered by GM on what it could have been. Mercury Marine in Stillwater OK actually hand assembled each and every engine.

One of us dyno'd with the key off and it put down 210, but it was still over 300 ft/lbs right off idle speed. I was playing around with a Camaro one day and thought I had a serious problem until I remembered I'd pulled out the valet key when I went in to pay for fuel (top was off and windows down) and had forgotten to put it back in. Without the key it shuts off the secondary injectors and intake ports. By 5000 RPM it is out of breath. With the key on, they pull hard all the way to 7000 and can hold that all day long. Until VW came out with their yet to be produced super car with the W12, the ZR-1 held the world speed/distance 24 hour record. 174 mph for 24 hours counting stops for driver changes and fill ups, all spare parts that might be needed had to be in the car, and it was done with a factory engine. Not bad for a car you can pick up used now for under 25k.

Parts are getting scarce. GM doesn't have any and a lot of the dealers are selling off theirs. There are still a few dealers in the ZR-1 circle that try to keep some on hand. The crank needed for the 415 runs about $6,000 I believe. I think it's a Callies or Cola custom job. I know of one 415 that's putting out over 600 HP w/o power adders of any kind and is still street driven without problems. That's what I'm looking for in my next ZR-1! Till then, I'll live with the Mini-LT5 in my STS...

WAZR1
12-04-03, 02:46 PM
I might take a ZR-1 over a Z06 myself.. I love the looks of the C4. I had one before my Fleetwood..

The SRT-4 is really amazing for the money. I like that little thing..

What's so impressive about the Viper is what it is for the money. Sure, it's more expensive than the Cobra or the Z06 - but it's closer in-league to makes like the Ferrari and Lambourghini.. Isn't it?

The question I have is - what happens when the C6 Z06 is faster than the Viper and costs $55-$60k? That's going to be a phenominal deal...

The new C6 I've seen pictures of is sharp! But for the money, I'm still waiting for another ZR-1! Plus, the C4's feel more like a sports car when your sitting in them in my opinion. If I could convince my wife I need the ZR-1 as a weekend driver and maybe on '06 Z-06 as the daily driver I could have the best of both worlds...

The main problem Chevy has with the Higher Performance Vettes, both the ZR-1 and Z-06, is that they look like all the other Vettes. The ZR-1 for one year only had the square tail lights, in 91 all Vettes had them. The only distinguishing piece left was the wider rear end and high mount center brake lamp. What does the Z-06 have to make it different on the outside, just the emblems? I'm SURE no one will buy Z-06 emblems and put them on their '97's so they can have a Z-06 too... :rolleyes: Dodge doesn't have that problem with the Viper, the only thing that looks like a Viper, is a Viper! The SRT-4 and the other hand might before too long. They are nice little cars, a guy I work with has one. If I were younger and had never driven a V8 before, I'd be tempted by them I'm sure. But as long as V8's are being made, I'll have one. My '00 STS does get better mileage than my co-workers SRT-4 by the way.

Ralph
12-04-03, 08:42 PM
I almost bought a (GAK) SX 2.0 earlier this year, and from what I read from owners comments the gas tank is very small, about 10 or 11 gals. so people actually think they are getting bad mileage because they have to fill it up all the time. I tested the "sport" model, which has a diff. name in the States, and it is rated at 32 city and 40 highway. Not quite "Civic" mileage, but good enough.

I used to dream of the ZR-1 over a decade ago, but for practical purposes today, I don't think I would want one if parts are getting scarce, and expensive. That's one of the reasons my stepdad sold his W30 Olds. However, now GM has a special restoration parts division. As with Ford for Mustang, and Dodge for old Mopar muscle.

I thought the SRT-10 Ram would generate more respectable numbers than that, but then maybe in the long run, a naturally aspirated engine will last longer and be more practical than a supercharged one. It must be a lot heavier than the Lightning, because it has to be a power to weight factor hindering its performance? I don't think they recommend towing with a supercharger, do they? I think I am still angry at Ford for putting that little wire-mesh filter under the pcv valve, that froze and cost me $1,200 dollars in new oil seals! Even the Ford trained mechanics didn't know to change it after I had it repaired! The only way I learned about it was from a Mustang Mag. on the 5.0.

Ralph
12-05-03, 06:42 PM
I just want to clarify something. Go to newcartestdrive.com they state for the Viper that the number of 13.2 is not for the quarter mile, it is for 0-100-0. The older Viper did this in 14.5 secs! :eek:

powerglide
12-05-03, 08:06 PM
Eneyone read that C&D article on the new Viper? Cookin eggs on the side well.... they kept mentioning heat problems, like burning your feet and stuff. Also the harsh ride, primitive design etc etc.....sounds like its not much of a bargain in my opinion. But if the choice was vett or viper (economics aside) I'd have to agree with Wes. There just aren't that many Vipers around (w.r.t vettes) plus I'd like those xtra 2 cylinders (why not)

......that being said I wish I could afford the Mercedes 600 SL. (I can't really imagine wanting a more powerful engine....V12 with two blowers!....how do you top that?) Not to mention the autoretract hard top, keyless-go, etc.

elwesso
12-05-03, 09:33 PM
:worship: -----> SL600

Theres so many cars I could get with the money for the 600SL.... I might go for the new BMW 6 series coupe, or a 760Li.... But how could you beat the SL600... Stupid fast, stupid luxurious, and stupid expensive...

powerglide
12-05-03, 11:54 PM
TESTIFY!!


The Germans have lost their mind in the last few years....these Twin Turbo V12 Mercs, 500HP V10 M5...not to mention the Porsche Carerra GT.....

How's Mercedes gonna be able to top their own 600SL (more cylinders, turbos, EM propulsion).....they will I'm sure, but how?

Ladies and Gents, the golden age for gearheads is in full effect.

Devil_concours
12-07-03, 01:36 PM
TESTIFY!!


The Germans have lost their mind in the last few years....these Twin Turbo V12 Mercs, 500HP V10 M5...not to mention the Porsche Carerra GT.....

How's Mercedes gonna be able to top their own 600SL (more cylinders, turbos, EM propulsion).....they will I'm sure, but how?

Ladies and Gents, the golden age for gearheads is in full effect.
Since they already have s65amg and cl65amg all they need is another one, SL65AMG ;)