: LS2 + '06 V gas mileage expectations?



ghaskins
09-25-05, 08:34 PM
Hi All,
I keep seeing posts where people say things like "'06 has the LS2 so mileage will likely be better", or "LS2 will not have the gas guzzler tax", etc. Does anyone know what the 06 will actually be rated for EPA mileage wise? Most things I read (like Edmunds, Vehix) rate the '06 at 15/23 but I don’t know if that is just a data carryover from the LS6 spec'd cars. (I saw the LS2 powered '06 GTO was estimated at 17/28 and the C6 is ??/28, so maybe there is hope it will go up?)

I am just curious if I should get an '05 or wait for an '06 since I have a long commute to work and it is a mild concern of mine. Technically I should probably buy a Civic or Prius if I was smart...but that wouldn’t be much fun now would it :D



-Greg

6104696
09-25-05, 08:44 PM
If it makes a difference to you, then you are looking at the wrong car. (typed with a friendly smile)

Besides, even if there is any difference in mileage....it will not be more than 1 mpg one way or the other. there is not much more fuel economy that will get squeezed out of a 400 hp V8 that is geared for a 4.6 (or 4.9 or whatever) 0-60 time. The LS2 is an evolutionary, not revolutionary, design.

If the fuel economy difference is 5%, or even 10%........if that is enough to change your car buying decision then you properly noted that you need to shop for a different class of vehicle.

ghaskins
09-25-05, 09:31 PM
If it makes a difference to you, then you are looking at the wrong car. (typed with a friendly smile)

Hehe...its probably a funny concern from someone considering a $50k car. But its not the cost really (at least to me). Its more of a "convincing the wife that I new V is what I should buy" issue. My current car is a Maxima and gets 27MPG. The fact that the V is rated lower for my already expensive 520 miles per week commute is not helping my cause ;) The closer I get to 27, the less of an issue that argument is.


there is not much more fuel economy that will get squeezed out of a 400 hp V8 that is geared for a 4.6 (or 4.9 or whatever) 0-60 time.

Well dont forget that the gearing for achieving 0-60 has very little to do with the efficiency on the highway since you will often be crusing in the upper gears on the highway (i.e. you can always make 6th a really tall OD gear). My commute is all highway w/ no traffic so I tend to meet or beat the EPA HWY rating of whatever car I am in (unless I am particularly bad that day :D).

I just figured that the fact that the Vette makes 28 (albeit with a lower Cd), the GTO is estimated to make 28, and the fact that you would have to bump the ratings *way* up to make the gas-guzzler average cutoff of >= 22MPG (assuming the rumor is true) meant it was plausible that the posted 15/23 spec for the '06 was incorrect.

And yes, if the '06 was rated for 28 it would alter my buying decision towards the '06. If it was a more marginal increase like 16/24 I would probably rather get the '05 in favor of the end-of-the-year discount. Either way, I hope to be driving a V in the near future! ;)

Take care,
-Greg

1MEANV
09-25-05, 09:33 PM
if anybody wants good gas mileage get a neon or something. if anyone wants a kick ass m3 eatter get a v. yeah baby

6104696
09-25-05, 09:37 PM
well if it helps you I can tell you that, once, I averaged about 26 mpg for a few miles....at 60 mph, on a perfectly flat road, with a tailwind. 2004 model.


real world long trip highway mileage, driving 70-80 with tolls and stops and whatever driving in the mid-atlantic and northeast throwas at you, is usually in the 22-24 mph range.

GNSCOTT
09-25-05, 09:41 PM
if anybody wants good gas mileage get a neon or something. if anyone wants a kick ass m3 eatter get a v. yeah baby

new M3 is 400HP and weighs about 400lbs less. Thanks to GM, they will be playing catch up again with the M cars when they could have made it the other way around and just put the LS7 or supercharged LS2 in there.

With tons of higway mileage, you will prolly see around 20mpg unless you live in Idaho or some other state where a speed bump is the biggest hill you will go up.

ghaskins
09-25-05, 09:43 PM
real world long trip highway mileage, driving 70-80 with tolls and stops and whatever driving in the mid-atlantic and northeast throwas at you, is usually in the 22-24 mph range.

Thats actually still pretty amazing when you think about what the V can do. :)

I would expect to be able to obtain close to what you observed (assuming I can resist the siren call of that V8 note when you romp on it) during my commute given there are pretty much no stops for me. Both my house and office are within 3 minutes of the highway.

Thanks for the info!
-g

ghaskins
09-25-05, 10:13 PM
new M3 is 400HP and weighs about 400lbs less. Thanks to GM, they will be playing catch up again with the M cars when they could have made it the other way around and just put the LS7 or supercharged LS2 in there.

I have to agree with you here...I am a little surprised by this, but then again I think it makes sense for GM in the microcosm of their world internally.

By this I mean: When the V first came out, it shared its engine with a very special, limited car. They wanted the V to stand out and kick ass in '04, and by associating the V with the Z it did just that.....but now in '06 it shares its engine with a broader range of more common (albeit still kick-ass) lines of cars (GTO, regular Vette, etc) while the Z has moved on.

I bet this was a carefully calculated move. They want the Z to stand out and be special now. If they introduced the V with the same engine at the same time they would have a dilema: Do they raise the MSRP of the V to the levels of the Z and risk alienating the V customer base and diminshing the V value proposition? Or do they leave the V MSRP alone and risk cannibalizing the $65k price of the Z with a $50K V? (And Im not saying a LS7 equiped V is equivelent to a C6-Z06 before any Z people start flaming me :). Its a tough choice.

Plus, this also could interfere with the STS-V and XLR-V which are in the 470HP range with the forced induction N* engine. They cant have the wee-little brother showin' them up before they are out of the gate ;)

In the end, I think their hand will be forced by the introduction of the V10 M5 (which is just starting to ship now I think?) and then the later introduction of the E90 M3.

They made such fantastic progress in competing with the E39 M5 with the V. If they want to keep that momentum they will likely need to raise the stakes to the LS7 (or at least something more than the base LS2 levels). They are still trouncing the M5 on price but if the E90 M3 comes out with 400hp they will need to up the ante to keep the value proposition in place. Luckily for GM the E90 M3 isnt out until '07 (I believe?). I think they can afford to wait to introduce an LS7 V for at least another year to allow the C6-Z to shine by itself for a bit.....but it would have been really cool to see em turn the screws on the Ms and introduce it now :lildevil:

BeagleBrains
09-26-05, 08:26 PM
The installed computer mileage calculations are not measurable or accurate. Calculating from fill-up to highway driving to fill-up. Real measured driving, I have achieved above 25 mpg many times. Achieved 26+ on one trip where I was moderating my acceleration up to highway speed. Fill-up done at the highway on-ramp and refill at the off-ramp. Very accurate.

Florian
09-26-05, 09:21 PM
I easily see 25+ mpg daily. My car is a dd and I hit the highway every day for work. I see 16-18 mpg when Im on it in the city and 22-27 on the highway depending on the roads and toes.


F

Vrocks
09-26-05, 10:40 PM
The highest mpg avg I've ever had was 18.3 (on the only tank full of 87(ping) gas the V will ever see). I drive in morning traffic on 202 and the other part is in 25 - 35mph zones. I normally avg around 17mpg and I take the car up to redline at least once a day. The LS2 in the '06 should get me to within 2mpg of 20.

Slywun
09-26-05, 10:51 PM
The highest mpg avg I've ever had was 18.3 (on the only tank full of 87(ping) gas the V will ever see). I drive in morning traffic on 202 and the other part is in 25 - 35mph zones. I normally avg around 17mpg and I take the car up to redline at least once a day. The LS2 in the '06 should get me to within 2mpg of 20.


Ditto, I barely got 20MPG once (driving my V from Ohio to FL during break-in), and have avg'd around 17mpg since.

ntechnic
09-26-05, 10:52 PM
My day in day out average is about 16. If I have done almost all city and canyon driving, it's about 14. On a highway trip, including some city driving between the fillup and freeway, I averaged 19.5.

Peet
09-26-05, 11:10 PM
Aw heck, my G35 with its wheezy 3.5L engine gets 15.5-17 average. It's rated way higher, but ratings don't mean much with heavy feet.

But, fwiw, I just ran the numbers of the 05 CTSV versus the 05 Corvette (LS2 right?) and the difference is real enough...

MPG CTSV - 15c / 23h
MPG Vette - 18c / 28h
Avg reported MPG CTSV - 19
Avg reported MPG Vette - 23.7
Cost to drive 25 miles - $4.43CTSV, $3.58Vette

and the most interesting figure...

Annual fuel cost (based on 60% city, 40% highway and today's gas price of around $3.00/gal premium, 15,000 miles annually) is $2556 CTSV and $2150 Vette.

So, over the life of the car, assuming a five year loan, you save $2000 or so dollars by using the LS2 engine. Now then, that's a healthy deposit on a supercharger - which coincidentally will put your gas mileage back to where you were with the LS6 (LOL).

Cheers

Dave's V
09-26-05, 11:35 PM
I averaged around 25 mpg on a round trip from Salt Lake City to Denver last month. You can not drive these roads with a gentle right foot, although the V does make it easy.

I just took a trip to Boise this weekend and averaged 24mpg with a strong headwind cruising at 80mph.

I'm very happy with mid 20s gas mileage on the highway with the kind of performance the V has.

Peet
09-27-05, 12:26 AM
Good to hear Dave. If I may ask, any of you that sit in rush-hour traffic for 30-45 minutes every day twice a day, plus your additional driving. What are you seeing?

Thanks!

Redline
09-27-05, 09:58 AM
I do a lot of around town driving, and I'm thrilled with showing 17.1 mpg average on the car (have never reset in 4600 miles). To put it in perspective, that's only 4 mpg less than my wife's V6 SRX gets with more highway miles, and she can't give an M3 a kickin'...

If you're worried about gas mileage with a sigma chassis, I hear they're pretty much giving away the 2.8L CTS...

6104696
09-27-05, 10:45 AM
If I may ask, any of you that sit in rush-hour traffic for 30-45 minutes every day twice a day, plus your additional driving. What are you seeing?

Thanks!

If I had that commute, I'd be seeing a car dealer about getting myself something other than the CTS-V for my commuter car. I love my CTS-V, I drive it all over the place, but that shifter and the parade clunk gets real old in traffic, real fast. Luckily it's not an issue for my 6 mile commute. I hit plenty of traffic here in the DC metro area, but an hour and a half of it every day would require some changes to be made.

My gas mileage would be about 14 mpg given the conditions that you describe. That wouldn't bother me as much as the bad "traffic ergonomics" of any performance car, but the shifter and drivetrain exacerbate the negatives a bit in the CTS-V.

c4racer
09-27-05, 06:45 PM
The V is actually better at low speed creeping in traffic than the E39 M5, which I used to own. Not quite as good as the Z06 or E36 M3. But really none of these were very good - performance cars were not really made to do that well. Still does't bother me, but I don't sit in all that much traffic and with my schedule my commute is completely variable and normally not done during rush-hour anyway.

Scott

Peet
09-28-05, 12:46 AM
I'm with C4.. same deal. I leave anywhere between 7 and 9:30am (depending on how late I want to work the night before from home). Go at 7 and it's bumper-bumper for about 10 miles decent everywhere else. Go at 8:30 onward and its 80 mph in somewhat tight traffic. Fire up the scanner, turn up volume on the V1 and sail.

I guess I'll see around 13-14 with this car which is not as bad as all that. I am seeing, like I said, around 16 now. What's 2mpg for the fun?! Now I still need to nail down the purchase (I expected a payment from a client by now - which won't materialize for another few weeks).