: RADIATOR -- at 2600 MILES!!!



feline
09-22-05, 04:37 PM
Hi guys me again the "TOKEN FEMALE" well I am (CRYING) again, I was on the way to see my MOM in the hospital and "Check Coolant Level" came up on the screen. I immediately drove to the dealership and was told the BAD NEWS, my Radiator was leaking and MUST be replaced!!! I only have 2600 Miles and I started Crying, especially after they told me that it might be awhile to even get a new radiator in and they would have to call the GM Rep. first. I see nothing on the garage floor or in the driveway and the car has been running fine. I "LOVE" this car so much that it just makes me feel sad, first the battery and now this. The dealership has been very nice and I know it's not their fault so we will just have to see how long it might take to get the radiator. The car is parked in my garage!!
Appreciate any comments on this.
Thanks, Ginnie

urbanski
09-22-05, 04:46 PM
Known issue, TSBs here
http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/tsb/data/tsb/05-06-02-005.pdf
http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/tsb/data/pic3399.pdf

hope you get one soon. you can easily add water and it'll be fine until the new one comes in. and while it's there, you can have them do the wheel hop bushing instal

2003RC51
09-22-05, 04:47 PM
Don't feel bad. I had mine replaced around 4000 miles.

Ryan

CTSVONFIRE
09-22-05, 04:51 PM
i'm on my second one, excessive rpm's cause more pressure on your cooling system and it leaks. Min has been replaced twice. It was leaking around the crimped area along the bottom

CTSVONFIRE
09-22-05, 04:54 PM
Document ID# 1646386
2004 Cadillac CTS


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Coolant Leak (Replace Radiator) #05-06-02-005 - (Apr 12, 2005)
Coolant Leak (Replace Radiator)
2004-2005 Cadillac CTS-V

Built Prior To and Including VIN Breakpoint 50193910

Condition
Some customers may comment on a coolant leak. Upon investigation, the technician may find that the leaks appears to be coming from the lower radiator tank near the lower hose outlet.

Cause
The cooling system may experience increased internal pressures during sustained high RPMs at elevated operating temperatures. This increased pressure may cause a weakening of the core-to-tank mating surface in the area where some tabs were not crimped.

Correction
Replace the radiator with GM P/N 89022478. This radiator has been revised to include additional crimping on the lower tank. Refer to the Radiator Replacement (LS6) procedure in the Engine Cooling sub-section of the Service Manual (SI Document ID #1389672).

Parts Information
Part Number
Description

89022478
Radiator Assembly


Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time

J3100
Radiator Assembly -- Replace
1.4 hrs*

*This time is updated from the current Labor Time Guide. The next update of the Labor Time Guide will contain this change.




GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION


Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Document ID# 1646386
2004 Cadillac CTS

CVP33
09-22-05, 05:53 PM
Feline? Sustained high RPM's huh? Bad kitty! :tisk: :histeric:

waswas
09-22-05, 06:06 PM
As I understand it, the radiator has been beefed up and has a new part number....just be certain you get the new one......I feel good---mine lasted 11K miles

azombie
09-22-05, 06:09 PM
the new one is MUCH better, just had it put in (was a real pain to get it they are really low on them right now), but the car runs MUCH cooler now.

the oil temp used to be aroudn 253-257 and now it hasn't gone much over 230 and the coolant temp is down about 10 degrees too. Overall it is good you are getting the new one. Don't cry too hard I lost mine for 29 days of the summer this year.

urbanski
09-22-05, 06:12 PM
there is NO reason to "lose" the car
add some water, chill out, let the dealer order the part (number is on the TSB should they not know that fact), and according to the TSB it's a 1.4 hour job

BodybyFisher
09-22-05, 06:59 PM
I wouldn't advise adding straight water. I would add a 50/50 mix of distilled water and the approved coolant otherwise the next problem you will be having is boiling over. If you don't want to play chemist, you can buy pre-mixed coolant that already has the water mixed in, expensive but it will stop you from having to futz with the mix. The addition of GM's cooling supplement might help also, but since you are getting your radiator replaced, I will forgo it. Mike (Scotty)

urbanski
09-22-05, 07:17 PM
well, sure from a purist standpoint 50/50 is best....
but she may not have any antifreeze lying around.
I have one of the "bad" radiators...i've added 50/50 3 times now. I'll be damned if they're taking my car apart for a minor issue. It usually takes a whopping 8 ounces of mixture to top the reservoir off. 8oz of straight water is insignificant, especially if she's getting it fixed. Besides, it's such a slow leak, I need that 8oz every 4 months, LOL.
no biggie

BodybyFisher
09-22-05, 10:18 PM
I just make it a practice never to put straight water in the resouvior, small leak or not, its not a purist view, its the idea that I don't want LESS than a 50/50 mix ever, and putting water in will cause that. Not only that, and this is from the guru himself who is no longer around, using tap water is a no-no, distilled water only. Well the more I look around, maybe I am a purist and didn't realize it, who knows...

SBONES
09-22-05, 10:28 PM
this is so funny, mine is at the dealer right now for the shifter...they call and say i have a radiater leak...never had any sign of this...no mark in driveway...no notification through the car...like low coolent leval...weird...i still love her though...the car feline...:rolleyes:

BodybyFisher
09-22-05, 11:23 PM
Could the dealers be using this excuse to generate revenue? Anotherwords, SOME have radiator problems, and the dealer is using the radiator and charging GM? Could they get away with that?

Dreamin
09-23-05, 01:42 AM
Adding distilled water is the best solution... so she's not at exactly a 50/50 mixture... unless youre in Alaska or the Sahara dessert, it wont matter, until the radiator gets replaced. There's no real problem even adding tap water... Tap water will *eventually* rust the radiator... hmmm... but she's getting a new radiator...

CTSV05
09-23-05, 01:49 AM
Feline, just add something and drive the car, as long as its set for repairs you're not going to cause any problems. Hell we run straight water in our race cars.

Aluminum doesn't rust last time I checked.

And I am pure as the driven slush mind you.

CTSVONFIRE
09-23-05, 09:05 AM
Maybe fisher should make it a practice to learn how to spell "resouvior". How about reservoir. Adding straight water just lower the boiling point.

BodybyFisher
09-23-05, 09:24 AM
I don't want to beat a dead horse here but:

The reason that you should only use distilled water at this point is to avoid mineral deposits which will deteriorate your cooling system over time.

Ordinary tap water contains hard water salts such as calcium and magnesium. This can lead to the formation of deposits or scale build-up in cooling systems which, in turn, can impede crucial heat transfer," explains Dale McKenzie of Prestone Products Corporation, one of the world's leading antifreeze experts. "The other chemicals commonly found in most tap water deplete the inhibitors in an antifreeze and can increase the rate of corrosion of cooling system components."

If she introduces TAP WATER into the cooling system I highly doubt that the dealer will flush her BLOCK when they replace the radiator, and the contaminants will remain in the block and eventually cause problems, why chance that? SHORT TERM is not the issue here, the issue is that the DEALER will NOT flush out the entire cooling system leaving the contaminated tap water deposits.

With regard to the 50/50 mix, it does not matter whether you are in the SAHARA desert, LESS than a 50/50 mix is not recommended as it lowers the boiling point. The first time this car is in bumper to bumper traffic it will boil over due to a lowered boiling point, the Sahara desert has nothing to do with it. EGOS and spell checkers aside, if we are going to provide advice lets try to provide prudent, well thought out advice and stop contradicting each other.

rbrantlee
09-23-05, 11:33 AM
Maybe fisher should make it a practice to learn how to spell "resouvior". How about reservoir. Adding straight water just lower the boiling point.

Maybe you should learn proper grammar. Adding straight water just lowers the boiling point.

CTSVONFIRE
09-23-05, 12:10 PM
True true, just a redneck from a small town. That's probably excellent from where I grew up.

feline
09-23-05, 12:35 PM
First of all I Appreciate all the Feedback!! I just got a call from the dealership and they said my Radiator should be in by next Wednesday. I just said PLEASE put alot of covering on the front end -- I am so Afraid of getting a dent or scratches. I still LOVE my BABY!!!!
Take care,
Ginnie

Florian
09-23-05, 12:37 PM
Ive got a case of PEAK Global if anyone wants a gallon (or more). I won the stuff at the Detroit Dream Cruise and its sitting in my garage collecting dust. Just cost ya shipping.

F

CTSV05
09-23-05, 06:41 PM
Sounds good, I just hate anything that says or has to do with "Global"!

jimbohenson
09-23-05, 07:08 PM
Ive had two replaced in 4000 miles. My dealer said it was a "seam leak". I did get check coolant level both times but never noticed a puddle or overheating issues. Feel free to dirve while you wait for the radiator.

GT04CTS-V
09-24-05, 12:56 AM
Most likely - you won't notice the coolant leak. The small amount of coolant that leaks from the radiator tank crimp is caught by the plastic drip pan. Then, when you drive the car, the drip pan leaks the coolant while the car is in motion. When the car is parked, the drip pan catches the antifreeze, but it never makes it to the ground.

I had my radiator replaced at 2300 miles, never knew it was leaking until I was getting ready to install the Maggie. No leaks on the garage floor. However, when I removed the drip pan, it was soaked with antifreeze.

GT

bigjayzway
09-24-05, 07:43 AM
You know what you guys.

I don't think you know what you are talking about!
This guy comes on here, and tries to help you, and you shoot him down.....You are all the red necks, and a bunch of ignorant idiots!
No wonder a lot of people hate coming here!
This guy(BodybyFisher) knows a lot more than you think!!!! And is a lot more knowledgable in any Cadillac than you will ever be!
Big Jay

CTSVONFIRE
09-24-05, 09:22 AM
Sorry there big Jay. I'm a cadillac tech. He's just a "bodybyjake" wannabe

urbanski
09-24-05, 09:47 AM
You know what you guys.

I don't think you know what you are talking about!
This guy comes on here, and tries to help you, and you shoot him down.....You are all the red necks, and a bunch of ignorant idiots!
No wonder a lot of people hate coming here!
This guy(BodybyFisher) knows a lot more than you think!!!! And is a lot more knowledgable in any Cadillac than you will ever be!
Big Jay
take a valium and chill big guy....

Dreamin
09-24-05, 04:27 PM
You know what you guys.
This guy(BodybyFisher) knows a lot more than you think!!!!
Big Jay: Yes, we do know who he is... anyone who even remotely follows the racing forums knows Scotty. And he has our respect (my respect at least), but that doesn't mean we cant disagree with him. Though i dont understand the damn grammer police in this thread :wtf:

BodybyF: I agree adding tap water to the cooling system is generally a bad idea, i.e. 50% tap water, 50% collant; however, in the quantities we're talking about here... 4oz? 8oz?... the question is what will be the long term damage to the cooling system... given the radiator will be replaced and most (though not all) of the old coolant is going to pore out anyway... i argue NEGLIGABLE.
The question is, would you drive around with low coolant and not add anything - or add a few oz's of tap water if that's all you had to add?

Next, I completely disagree with your 50/50 mixture advice, again generally good advice, but in this case a oz's will not matter. I wont bore you with a heat transfer capacity of water vs. ethol-glycol discussion... you know that better than I... and i wont post the formula's... but at 15psi (V cooling system pressure):
Boiling temp of 50/50 glycol/water is: ~264 F.
Boiling temp of 33/66 glycol/water is: ~257F.
A whooping 7 degrees... not going to make a big difference on most cars.

And the V specifically has a very well-designed cooling system, it simply does not get close to 257F...AC on/AC off/stopped in traffic/road racing in 100 deg heat (speaking from personal experience here). The stage 2 fans kick in at 235F... and that's where the temp stays.

And yes, i agree, my SAHARA desert comments were not technically accurate...i was quickly trying to make a point. I'd say even in the Sahara desert the car will not get close to 257F...


if we are going to provide advice lets try to provide prudent, well thought out advice and stop contradicting each other.I couldn't agree more, and let me add: the most useful advice is relevent to the question asked, and specific to the author's situation. In this case, most our reply's were emphasizing just get something into the radiator... and if you dont have anti-freeze (most people dont at home)... *in this situation* adding distilled water or worse case tap water...is a much better option than driving around with a low coolant level.

BodybyFisher
09-24-05, 04:58 PM
You just set up a scenario where you are right, where only 4 or 8 oz of water is added, that is. Thats a small amount of water.

If I give the advice to add water, how can I be sure that the individual on the other side of this keyboard won't add a gallon over the next month waiting for GM to get the radiator in? Call me Mr. Safety who wears a belt and suspenders to keep his pants up, but I take no chances with aluminum engines and add only proper coolant, oil and follow maintenance schedules. To me there is no excuse to add pure water, when I can drive around the corner and buy a pre-mix if I don't want to get my hands dirty. What am I going to save $12, at most? This person LOVES her car, suppose you tell her to add WATER NOW and she adds it in the FUTURE also, not realizing the seriousness of doing so? Hey she learned right here on a CADILLAC site that its OK to add water! By the way, I DON'T take any chances adding tap water to DEXCOOL with some of the stories I have heard, its by the book for me with DEXCOOL...

Someone said aluminum doesn't rust, well yes they are right, BUT it corrodes! Do I really want to start the corrosion process now by adding tap water and blow my head gaskets in 3 years? Of course if you are going to trade the sucker in, or hand it back at the end of a lease, I guess it doesn't matter to some. I just take no chances, thats me. Thanks for your thoughts

StealthV
09-24-05, 05:27 PM
Back on topic -

Got the "Check Coolant Level" display on the NAV screen this morning - almost made it 20k miles. :banghead:

urbanski
09-24-05, 05:33 PM
Back on topic -

Got the "Low Coolant" display on the NAV screen this morning - almost made it 20k miles. :banghead:
oh that's an easy fix...just dump some tap water into the reservoir and you'll be all set :)

























:duck:

Dreamin
09-24-05, 05:36 PM
...alright... where's the moderator complaint form... :D

urbanski
09-24-05, 05:44 PM
You just set up a scenario where you are right, where only 4 or 8 oz of water is added, that is. Thats a small amount of water.

If I give the advice to add water, how can I be sure that the individual on the other side of this keyboard won't add a gallon over the next month waiting for GM to get the radiator in? Call me Mr. Safety who wears a belt and suspenders to keep his pants up, but I take no chances with aluminum engines and add only proper coolant, oil and follow maintenance schedules. To me there is no excuse to add pure water, when I can drive around the corner and buy a pre-mix if I don't want to get my hands dirty. What am I going to save $12, at most? This person LOVES her car, suppose you tell her to add WATER NOW and she adds it in the FUTURE also, not realizing the seriousness of doing so? Hey she learned right here on a CADILLAC site that its OK to add water! By the way, I DON'T take any chances adding tap water to DEXCOOL with some of the stories I have heard, its by the book for me with DEXCOOL...

Someone said aluminum doesn't rust, well yes they are right, BUT it corrodes! Do I really want to start the corrosion process now by adding tap water and blow my head gaskets in 3 years? Of course if you are going to trade the sucker in, or hand it back at the end of a lease, I guess it doesn't matter to some. I just take no chances, thats me. Thanks for your thoughts
well, i set up the situation....not dreamin' who is 100000X smarter than me.
referencing my first reply to Feline, then also again later, it's all MY FAULT.

The OP was freaked out worried her car is dead. I tried to indicate and reassure her that my car has this very problem, i've added coolant 3 times totalling 8 ounces each time, over 18 months of owning my car. I have no plans to get it fixed.

My first mistake was telling her to add water (note I didn't say tap nor distilled). My second mistake was not saying to add 50/50 distilled/aluminum safe coolant, since the OP is a female I assumed she wouldn't know what the f i was talking about. My third mistake was dooming the poor individual to overheating, corroded head gaskets and engine internals due to my above oversights.

Feline, I will buy your car from you since I have irreparably ruined it. You were worried about a few scratches from the dealer but now I have destroyed your pride and joy. I can send you a check FedEx Monday.
peace

Katndnvr
09-24-05, 05:55 PM
I had mine replaced 3 times before I got the new one.

I just added straight dexcool, for get the mixing:mad2: and I was sure that it was better then driving it low.

BodybyFisher
09-24-05, 06:49 PM
Wow! Don't underestimate yourself, I'm not smarter, just more careful that's all. Call me an old fuddy duddy if you like. This is not a fault finding mission, its an exchange of ideas. If you were going to buy a Northstar right now, what would be the first thing you would ask, how was it maintained? Why are some NS's holding up and others not, the main reason that has been given has been maintenance. You and I can not guarantee that some member doesn't put a gallon of water in forgets about it and then cracks his block, is that too far fetched? Nor will all of the water come out of the block when the radiator is changed. I am sorry to seem to be beating a dead horse here, but there has been so much justification that its ok to add water from other members, you must be liked a lot here! :yup: Don't forget to check your coolant concentration before the cold weather :eek: LOL!



well, i set up the situation....not dreamin' who is 100000X smarter than me.
referencing my first reply to Feline, then also again later, it's all MY FAULT.

The OP was freaked out worried her car is dead. I tried to indicate and reassure her that my car has this very problem, i've added coolant 3 times totalling 8 ounces each time, over 18 months of owning my car. I have no plans to get it fixed.

My first mistake was telling her to add water (note I didn't say tap nor distilled). My second mistake was not saying to add 50/50 distilled/aluminum safe coolant, since the OP is a female I assumed she wouldn't know what the f i was talking about. My third mistake was dooming the poor individual to overheating, corroded head gaskets and engine internals due to my above oversights.

Feline, I will buy your car from you since I have irreparably ruined it. You were worried about a few scratches from the dealer but now I have destroyed your pride and joy. I can send you a check FedEx Monday.
peace

urbanski
09-24-05, 06:51 PM
you must be liked a lot here! :yup: Don't forget to check your coolant concentration before the cold weather :eek: LOL!
naw, i'm not liked, i'm a mod so if they sass me I will ban them!

;)

it's all good bro, thanks for the great advice :)
peace

ace996
09-24-05, 08:57 PM
And if you'd like some added protection, put a bottle of WaterWetter in the mix. I've found great success with WW at lowering temps with straight distilled water in my Ducati. I don't run pure water-WW mix in the V, but I've added a bottle to bring up the coolant level.
Be good,
ace996

CVP33
09-24-05, 10:46 PM
I miss my stealth tune. I'm running 20* hotter than before.

BodybyFisher
09-24-05, 11:17 PM
My only question is how does it agree with Dexcool?

I found this article that I thought was very informative and they mention Water Wetter
http://www.custompistols.com/cars/articles/cooling.htm


And if you'd like some added protection, put a bottle of WaterWetter in the mix. I've found great success with WW at lowering temps with straight distilled water in my Ducati. I don't run pure water-WW mix in the V, but I've added a bottle to bring up the coolant level.
Be good,
ace996

ace996
09-25-05, 01:30 AM
Good article,BBF, but I think the author may have it wrong regarding WaterWetter. WW is an additive that breaks the surface tention of the coolant allowing smaller bubbles to form at the hot spots of the engine. When water comes in contact with the hotter parts of the engine, small bubbles form and partially block the liquid-to-metal contact, reducing the thermal transfer of heat. WW causes the bubbles to form at much smaller size and thus increases the thermal transfer. This may allow a "better flow" of fluid through the system, but it is not the main purpose of WW.

In my Ducati, the WW-water mix allows the engine to shed heat much faster than a typical coolant mix. The side effect is that during normal riding the coolant registers about a 5degree warmer average, the company claims this is the result of the fluid absorbing heat better than an average mix. However, when on a race track or while stuck in traffic, my coolant never goes above 210degrees...where I would need to pull over to let it cool (220*-225*) without WW.

Basically, it will show slightly higher temps on the low end but keeps the high end within acceptable levels. Everyone I know who rides on the track or in hot summer heat uses WW and I've never heard a problem with its use. I have heard some 3rd Gen RX-7 users say that it is not good for their rotary-seals, but I don't believe it applies to us...

I've put a bottle in my tank, haven't had an issue yet...don't suppose I will. Next summer I plan on running 80% distilled water/20% coolant and a bottle of WW. I'd love to just go water-WW, but the coolant does do a good job of lubricating the waterpump...so I'll keep some in the mix. Of course, if you live in colder climates, its recommended to switch back to the recommended water/coolant-antifreeze mix for winter.

Ve good,
ace996

feline
09-30-05, 01:11 PM
Hi guys, (8) days Later and "NO RADIATOR" talked to the Service Dept this morning and he told me that there is NO RADIATOR yet and don't know where it is?? The weather has been really nice and I sure would like to be driving my "V" before I put it away for Winter!!! Is there a phone number that I could call and maybe talk to somebody?? My husband is Ready to "SELL" it and buy a NEW VETTE!!!
Please any Help is Always APPRECIATED!!!
Feline

BodybyFisher
09-30-05, 01:46 PM
Having rode in a 2005 Corvette yesterday, all I can say is OMG! The power is seamless and pins you to the seat...

feline
09-30-05, 02:24 PM
Hi, just talked to Mathew from "CADILLAC" Customer Rep. and he did some research and told me that (38) Radiator's have been shipped out to Various Dealers and should arrive hopefully by the first or so of next week. Very NICE guy and I am Glad I called -- I did not Blame my Dealer for any of this delay and he said he would be in contact with them also.
I will just have to wait.
Feline

SBONES
09-30-05, 04:01 PM
my v has been at the dealer now for 2 weeks....waiting on the radiator...i was told the same thing...there's alot of people waiting for one...

BodybyFisher
09-30-05, 04:45 PM
Glad to hear you are making progress! I am sure that your pleasant style has something to do with it.. Many customers are arrogant and obnoxious and make no headway at all...



Hi, just talked to Mathew from "CADILLAC" Customer Rep. and he did some research and told me that (38) Radiator's have been shipped out to Various Dealers and should arrive hopefully by the first or so of next week. Very NICE guy and I am Glad I called -- I did not Blame my Dealer for any of this delay and he said he would be in contact with them also.
I will just have to wait.
Feline