: Ground Control Coilover Kit???



ace996
09-19-05, 11:00 PM
Fellow V-pilots,
I'm going to start pestering Ground Control to see if we can get a coilover set-up for us. As I see it, the FG2s need stiffer springs and with Wild's rear shock-mount conversion, we can lower the V as little as desired...and I can finally get my stiffer springs. Something like this is in my mind:

http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=565/CA=23

or

http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=33/CA=23

I figure 480-500lbs/inch springs would be perfect, as the FG2s are overdamped compared to the stock springs. If they could adapt some Koni adjustables, I'd be in heaven...and selling the FG2s.

Damn, I really don't want a divorce....

Anyone interested or am I alone?

Thanks,
ace996

ace996
09-20-05, 01:28 AM
......tumbleweed slowly rolls across the dirt road......

-uplink-
09-20-05, 02:01 AM
I have essentially a GC kit on my Vette. Its the system from www.exoticmuscle.com (http://www.exoticmuscle.com/) now but was originally GC, passed to Doug Rippie, passed to another shop, and eventually to EM. Its a really nice setup with Eibach springs over Bilstein shocks. If they would make one for the V definitely go for it.

You are really close with your weights for comfortable springs but might be a little soft for performance. To not completely kill the driveability I run a 425#/350# F/R combo (I like to dial my cars in with a little push) and the car handles great. Definitely harsher than the factory performance cross-leafs though over rough pavement.

Guys from my Vette Team have run up to 600#'ers in the front. The V tips the scales a good 700lbs+ more than a C4 so you might want to start with 500# for base performance and work your way up. Depends on how often your wife is in the car though. :shhh:

There's also a range of spring you can use based on the valving of the shock. Not sure how tight the span is but extra spring sets are relatively cheap and you can change all 4 in an hour or less if you're quick. With some help you could easily run 1 set in the Auto-X morning session and a 2nd set after lunch to test/tune.
-Mike

Mat347
09-20-05, 02:02 AM
Would they be true coil overs like these?

http://www.rodtech.com.au/COIL%20OVER%20TWO.htm

or the "coil overs" like in your links?

I have felt the difference with a true coil over setup and would be interested as long as the price was ~$1500 or less for front and back...infinite adjustment in height is a good thing too.

Dreamin
09-20-05, 02:30 AM
I'm interested but want 420 to 440lbs. springs so I can stick with stock non-FG2 shocks...

kimcheejeegae
09-20-05, 02:43 AM
I'm interested but want 420 to 440lbs. springs so I can stick with stock non-FG2 shocks...


why so soft? stock springs are 400lbs...

calicadi
09-20-05, 03:12 AM
Keep talkin' fellas. I'm interested in anything tunable that can still make use of stock attachment points.

Also, I just fired off an email to GC asking if they are now planning or would consider making something for us.

rgd
09-20-05, 06:19 AM
What do you think about Eibach's with QA1, 12 way adj shocks?

I'll let you know how well they work together after the weekend.

Dreamin
09-20-05, 10:48 PM
why so soft? stock springs are 400lbs...

Cuz No. Calif roads suck **&^

I'd be happy with 400lbs, just lower...

Florian
09-20-05, 11:31 PM
:yeah: I want to lower the V, but I love the ride quality (its my DD and I drive 300+ miles a day, lots of seat time, so ride is REALLY important).

F

wildwhl
09-20-05, 11:35 PM
Dreamin -

Not to threadjack - but the ww mod is perfectly suited for you :D

calicadi
09-20-05, 11:39 PM
......tumbleweed slowly rolls across the dirt road......
... a sudden blast, the V disappears almost before being seen, out of reach, making the desert two-lane a private Bonneville.

Sent an email to GC inquiring if they are, or would consider, making components for the V. They said probably not. Not done with them yet. Stay tuned.

Went back to the Mallett site, they offer a coil-over option to their Mallett-Penske shock set up... so it can and has be done.

ace996
09-20-05, 11:45 PM
OK, work has been hectic so I was not able to deal with the issues, yet. I should have some time tomorrow to call GC and prod about what can be done.

My thoughts for the springs are this..
I have FG2s, they are overdamped for the stock 400lbs/inch springs. This results with a somewhat harsh ride, caused by the shocks. With slightly stiffer springs, there could be a better matched "feel" that may improve the ride...stiff, but with less jarring. The Subaru STi's have benefited greatly by using slightly stiffer springs...same overdamped issue with them.

With GC's, springs can be swapped out. Imagine, I buy 500lbs springs but am not happy with them...perhaps I want a little more stiff...someone could install my springs...and vice-versa. Eventually, we'll find a nice balance for the stock shocks and the FG2s that would be the "benchmarks".

With Wild's rear shock mount mod, height can be adjusted and the corresponding spacer drop could be perfectly matched with the GC spring seats, so someone could do a .5" drop while someone else may go 1.3" drop...there's adjustability.

I've seen a company that now makes an adjustable camber plate, a coilover-type collar that screws up or down to adjust the pillow-ball mount. This would be optimal, but they run about $400/pair...and that's without modification to be adapted to our needs.

I know that the basic kit could be adapted but I'm not looking for major mount modifications or welding to be required. This needs to be as "bolt-on" as possible, cause if something goes wrong...returning to stock is a must.

I am looking to go 20-25% stiffer on the springs. This should add some needed stiffness while not overdriving the shocks, so we don't blow them out too quickly...which stiffer springs often do with ride-height drops.

I'd love to go to a true coilover set-up in the rear, also, but due to the fact that there may not be room for the spring and that the shock location is not the stock location...there needs to be development work to figure out the correspondingly different spring-rate needed. In other words, moving the spring location outboard, to the shock location would require much stiffer springs...I think...and what rate that would be needed is strictly guesswork at this point. Durability of the shock mounts, with springs attached, is up for question, also...springs were never intended to go there, so there may be premature fatigue of parts/mounts...I don't want that for anybody.

The front would be a typical coil-over install, with the threaded collar slipping over the shock-body...attaching the collar to the shock is the question there...again...I don't want welding, so perhaps the stock lower mount can be used/adapted.

The beauty of these kits is that the springs are open to your own needs. The front spring possibilities are endless, length and rate. The rear springs...that's another story, they need to be wider...so rate/length may not have the same possibilities.

There you go...I'm happy to hear that there is an interest in this. Now I just need to do my part....
Ve good,
ace996

calicadi
09-20-05, 11:48 PM
What do you think about Eibach's with QA1, 12 way adj shocks?

I'll let you know how well they work together after the weekend.

Please do! Anything and everything helps. Photos, part numbers, install stories, lesson learned, test results. You print it, we'll read it!

ace996
09-20-05, 11:57 PM
rgd,
I'd love to install QA1s, as adjustability is the racer's best friend, but they are about $1000 just for the shocks, without the coilover kit. The Eibach's are progressive rate(I'd like linear), and I'm not looking for that much of a drop. They're just not stiff enough for my needs and no adjustability for height without using spacers.
GC will probably not issue an "approved" marketed kit without us going the Frankenstein route and proving it'll work first. There is a way....

rgd
09-21-05, 12:24 PM
I am beginning to feel I might be wasting my $$$ after reading various threads about the EIBACHS mostly. :banghead: Problem is I have the EIBACHS in my garage waiting for the QA1'S that should ship this week. I don't know squat other than what I read here and various on other sights so I need some help. :eek: I want to be able to road race when all is said and done. Track days, AutoX that sort of thing. Is it mainly the springs that will cause me problems? Should I pick up the QA1's and change springs later if need be. Any comments are appreciated. I need to decide today if possible.

Anybody with knowledge feel free.

Thanks-Bob



rgd,
I'd love to install QA1s, as adjustability is the racer's best friend, but they are about $1000 just for the shocks, without the coilover kit. The Eibach's are progressive rate(I'd like linear), and I'm not looking for that much of a drop. They're just not stiff enough for my needs and no adjustability for height without using spacers.
GC will probably not issue an "approved" marketed kit without us going the Frankenstein route and proving it'll work first. There is a way....

rgd
09-21-05, 12:37 PM
And, by the way, I have been contacting K&N for months and hear the same thing over and over. The springs have been completed (finished R&D) and released for production. But, no date 6-8 weeks blablabla.
again :banghead:
They are progressive design for front same as EIBACH.

bob

ace996
09-21-05, 05:51 PM
RGD,
don't give up on the Eibach's, yet. They may be just what you're looking for....
I have specific needs that are not addressed with the eibach's, so please don't despair...at worst, you'll need a few spacers to raise height a little.

UPDATE - New thread started.

-uplink-
09-21-05, 05:59 PM
Tom,
The system won't let me PM yet. How many posts are needed?
How is Art at Lynbrook? Ken has been busy the last 2 days and Art was the only guy I could talk to. He wasn't very clear on the smart buy thing. Shoot me an e-mail (ewc@pouch.com) if you have a second.
Thanks.
-Mike

ace996
09-22-05, 12:28 AM
Sent, Mike.