: Questions and a somewhat unpleasant visit to my local dealer (long)



GOTTSPD
09-19-05, 04:25 PM
Hi.

I'm getting a black 2004 V soon! I'm very excited about it as I think it'll be a fun daily driver. I'm replacing an Acura CL Type S (big 2 door coupe) in large measure because the V will work better as a baby hauler than the 2 door. I'm assuming that most folks are using the V as their DD, right? I'm in Maryland (just outside DC), so the winters are usually fairly mild. It may get cold, but snow is limited to a few times a year. I would think that the V in snow would suck, but it's that or my NSX and as the NSX doesn't even get to go outside in the rain, its for sure that he won't be allowed in the snow! :ill:

Anyway, I wanted to see how the car seat would fit in the back of a V, so my wife, 5 week old daughter and I cruise down to the local Cadillac dealership on Saturday, which is open, but has exactly ZERO customers in it. The first guy I ask about a V says that they have none (new or used). I told him that that was okay, I just wanted to sit in a CTS to get a sense of the space. We chat briefly and he proceeds to tell me that there was not an '04 V??? My response: "With all due respect and though I have absolutely no interest in having a disagreement with you on this topic, they indeed did make a V WAY back in '04, as my father owns one." He hemms and haws a bit and then says "Oh, you're exactly correct, we only sold it for 2 months." Whatever.... Not a nice intro to this dealership.

Anyway, I go back and get my wife who's waiting in the car with the baby and we go back in to sit in a CTS. Sales guy two is much friendlier (even though I again told him (in a nice way) that we weren't buying a CTS-V from him). He's cool (and the only under 40 guy in the place besides me) and tells my wife and I all about getting the baby seat in the car. Okay, things are looking up with respect to my opinion of the dealership (which I'd heard bad things about before I came in).

We play for a bit and sales guy two goes off and leaves us be. We went over to play with a SRX as we may decide to trade my wife's Saab 9'5 Aero for something larger (not sure yet and certainly not in the immediate future). I'm trying to figure out the third row seat. I pressed the button to make the seat do its thing and the car beeped at me, but nothing else happened. I tinkered more and pressed the button, again, it beeped. Its at this point that sales guy 3 comes over and in the most patronizing voice you can imagine informs me that the seat is not going to move without the key. I said ok, thanks. I thought he'd go on to put the key in it and show us. Nope, he just stood there and lectured me about this and that and was generally as rude and as unfriendly as one might expect if I was walking on the hood of the vehicle. Actually, I'm not sure that he didn't outright fib to us as it appeared from a sticker someplace on the car that the remote itself could be used to make the seat do its thing. I may be mistaken on that though...

I think its a little funny because from my perspective, my wife and I look like we could afford whatever Cadillac has to sell us and these guys blew any chance they had of selling us a SRX sometime in the future. Honestly, I don't much care for the look of the SRX and we're not looking to get rid of the Saab now anyway, but I would have thought they might make an effort to be friendly, particularly as they were all sitting at their respective desks doing crosswords and otherwise appearing to be bored off their you know whats....

Anyway, its a major bummer that this is my closest dealership for service because I don't have any desire to go back there if the service guys are anything like the sales guys. It's a bit of a haul to go to Tysons to get to Moore, but it may be the only reasonable choice??

Nevertheless, I continue to remain very excited about getting a V. Hope not to have to see the dealership very often.

heavymetals
09-19-05, 04:30 PM
Ross Perot had the greatest take on GM.

He went to a dealer and got his car, unlike all the other board members.

He told them there was nothing wrong with the cars, it was the DEALERSHIPS.

GM of course told him he didn't know what he was talking about.

kjr39
09-19-05, 04:43 PM
Funny you should mention that you were the only person that was in the dealership... I went to test out a V on Saturday and it was me and only me there. Nothing, nada, no one.

As a matter of fact, when we walked in, you could hear a pin drop...

That being said, of the two dealerships that I have been in, one of them was very tight, not really helpful, wouldn't let me drive a V, etc. The other one, I have taken two Vs out for drives, have had great conversations with various salesmen, support staff, managers, etc about the car, the problems that it has, mods, you name it.

But, it is not just Cadillac that has crappy support. I walked out of an Audi dealership last week after being treated like cr&p by the salesman. I don't care if have to walk, I will not be driving an Audi in the near future!

heavymetals
09-19-05, 04:54 PM
The sad thing is that you don't have to look very hard to find a "bad dealership" for just about anything.:mad:

rand49er
09-19-05, 05:05 PM
I have a theory that's from years of observation: The attitude displayed by the employees of an organization directly emulates that of the owner(s). If the owner (or general manager) of the dealership is a jerk, the sales staff, etc. will be also ... and vice versa. I've seen this time and time again. Anyway, that's my $0.02.:stirpot:

05StealthGray
09-19-05, 05:21 PM
I live in Montgomery County and I wonder if you are talking about Coleman? I have taken my V in for service once and am not at all impressed with their knowledge of the car. Oil change and tire rotation seemed fine but I will probably go to Moore evem though Coleman is only a few miles from my house.

GOTTSPD
09-19-05, 05:28 PM
I am relunctant to name names. If they really screw me over sometime, I'll let folks know, but for now, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. Where in MoCo are you? I'd love to get together at some point to see your car! Feel free to e-mail in lieu of keeping this on here! Don't think I have PM privileges yet.

-uplink-
09-19-05, 06:30 PM
Sometimes I wonder if its the area as well. Up here in NY, I've been to Mitsubishi, Subaru, BMW, Dodge and GM dealerships... not one of them has ever really seemed interested in selling cars until you start talking about a deposit. Otherwise, 5pm they lock the doors and its home for the night.

My brother-in-law worked at a few dealerships in FL and now in AZ. They are unbelievably accomodating to people. Saturday nights he's worked until 9 or 10pm taking people out on test drives, answering questions they have about the cars, etc.
-Mike

wildwhl
09-19-05, 07:22 PM
Bad dealerships, and more importantly, patronizing/rude sales staff, cost businesses everyday in terms of sales.

For example - I'd be in a Volvo S60R right now instead of a V (not that I'm complaining) if it wasn't for the arseholes at the BMW/Volvo/Porsche dealership here in Reno. They have lost exactly FOUR sales to me now - a 330i 4 years ago, an M3 shortly after that, the S60R I speak of here, and just recently - when I gave the wife a :thumbsup: to figure out what here "mid-life crisis sports car" might be - they pissed her off just as she was about to offer to write a check for the little Boxster-S she found on the lot.

Bad dealerships - suck. We make sure to tell them with our pocketbook :D

GOTTSPD
09-19-05, 07:38 PM
I was soooo tempted to tell salesperson three that his attitude has assured that I won't buy a car from him or that dealership. My wife was itching to leave, so I didn't...

I suppose as I was not wearing white shoes, black socks and over 60, I didn't fit the bill of a viable prospective customer. ;)

I don't like to buy new cars anyway, so I suspect they didn't really end up losing a new car sale, but they certainly made a bad impression and may not get any service visits out of me (which is their profit center anyway)...

heavymetals
09-19-05, 07:56 PM
It works with the way they service to.


I will definitly consider buying my next car from the same dealer.:thumbsup:

GOTTSPD
09-19-05, 08:10 PM
heavymetals, do you live in the DC area?

heavymetals
09-19-05, 08:12 PM
Southern Calif.:cloud9:

Best state to live in for a consumer.:worship:

slow35th
09-19-05, 08:39 PM
Southern Calif.:cloud9:

Best state to live in for a consumer.:worship:

Second only to Texas plus we have no State income tax.

GT04CTS-V
09-19-05, 08:52 PM
GOTTSPD -

I have a black 04 CTS-V and live nearby in Mount Airy. A bunch of gearheads get together on the first and third Saturday evenings at Jimmy Cone's in Mount Airy to show their cars. A wide variety of cars usually show up.

Stop by and check out the V's.

GT

GOTTSPD
09-19-05, 09:36 PM
I'll have to check that out. Next one is October 1? What time do folks usually arrive?

GT04CTS-V
09-19-05, 09:45 PM
Most people start showing up at 5:15. It starts to get really crowded at 6:30

GT

rand49er
09-19-05, 10:52 PM
Second only to Texas plus we have no State income tax. My favorite bumper sticker seen here in Michigan said, "If you ain't Texan, you ain't $hit."

Laughed my butt off :histeric: .

Dennisscars
09-19-05, 10:57 PM
I went to a neighboring dealer to check out a V sans sun roof to check it out because I was on the fence about the sunroof or not. It was after work so I had business clothes on, I walked up and the salesmen were sitting on the fender smoking cigs and I all but told the guy I was only waiting to decided on the sun roof and was here to see it because they had the only one. The horse's arse wouldn't even unlock it or give me a brochure. He also corrected me that it was a CTS-5. (Roman numeral V) So I made sure he saw me leave as I drove out of there in my '65 Corvette. Needless to say I didn't buy from them.

My 20 yr old son on the other hand was at another dealer looking at pickups and they twisted his arm to drive a V without even checking his license. Well I'm not so sure who was twisting who's arm...But he got a spirited test drive and they have called several times to get him to come in again. He also told him that it had a 425hp L56 instead of LS6. I gotta get me one o-them.

Florian
09-19-05, 11:13 PM
holy sheeit. CTS Five? L56...what a bunch of numbnuts. I wouldnt let em sell me toilet paper. Douchebags.


F

Florian
09-19-05, 11:15 PM
I guess that makes the XLR-V the 10LR-5? Im still flabergasted. Goddamn no talent, clueless salesdicks!

F

benjet
09-19-05, 11:24 PM
I guess that makes the XLR-V the 10LR-5? Im still flabergasted. Goddamn no talent, clueless salesdicks!

F

L = 50 ;)

10-50-R-5

GOTTSPD
09-19-05, 11:26 PM
oh yeah, they didn't make a CTS-5 in 2004. We're all enthusiats here, so I'm not surprised that we know a bunch about this as well as many other cars. However, I'm an attorney and I know a helluva lot about the law. Why don't these sales guy know about their cars? If I sold cars, I'd know everything about the cars I sold.

Perhaps Cadillac should raise it's standards with regard to the hiring of sales people.

Dennisscars
09-19-05, 11:28 PM
I guess that makes the XLR-V the 10LR-5? Im still flabergasted. Goddamn no talent, clueless salesdicks!

F

Now see there you would flunk salesmen school, allow me to demonstrate..:histeric:

X=10
L=50
Haven't figured out R yet..:hmm:
X preceeds L so it's minus thus ~

-10+50R-5 = (40R)-5 = 35R :bonkers:

CTS-V = (100CS)-5 =95CS

When I think salemen, I think about the guy on True lies.

I'm thinking Corvette Too Slow Vitch, well maybe with a German accent...

lasstss
09-19-05, 11:36 PM
I have a theory that's from years of observation: The attitude displayed by the employees of an organization directly emulates that of the owner(s). If the owner (or general manager) of the dealership is a jerk, the sales staff, etc. will be also ... and vice versa. I've seen this time and time again. Anyway, that's my $0.02.:stirpot:

:yeah:
I agree 100%. In all businesses everything starts at the top. If the owner and company credo is to get top dollar utilizing half ass help this is what you get. Fortunately there are some dealers that dont have this 'modus operandi'. The best way to ID a good dealership is to get the info from here! We know where the bad eggs are!
The ownership experiance will be much better no matter what the issues are with the car.

Florian
09-19-05, 11:48 PM
Ben and Dennis,

Right on with the numerals...I was too flustered to think logically. Nice job.

F

cdog533
09-20-05, 01:03 AM
Unfortunately, most car sales guys are not "car" guys.... you, as an enthusiast, will usually know more.

Also, for most salespeople car sales is low pay, with long hours, so they tend to get the bottom of the barrel sales guys. If you dont want to buy THAT DAY, they won't follow up with you, call you, etc. Most of the guys are smug *****s that have no interest in actually being professional sales people and making money.

I had an M3 when the new one came out. I went to the dealership to buy it. I argued a bit with the sales guy about trade in value. He said "If you think that, you're never gonna by an M3" and went inside. Needless to say, we didn't talk further and I got a 740 somewhere else (M3 was too small after all) and the trade in value I wanted.

ace996
09-20-05, 01:34 AM
L56? Does that cost extra? Is that the automatic with air-bag shocks?

-uplink-
09-20-05, 02:14 AM
I went to a neighboring dealer to check out a V sans sun roof to check it out because I was on the fence about the sunroof or not. It was after work so I had business clothes on, I walked up and the salesmen were sitting on the fender smoking cigs and I all but told the guy I was only waiting to decided on the sun roof and was here to see it because they had the only one. The horse's arse wouldn't even unlock it or give me a brochure. He also corrected me that it was a CTS-5. (Roman numeral V) So I made sure he saw me leave as I drove out of there in my '65 Corvette. Needless to say I didn't buy from them.

My 20 yr old son on the other hand was at another dealer looking at pickups and they twisted his arm to drive a V without even checking his license. Well I'm not so sure who was twisting who's arm...But he got a spirited test drive and they have called several times to get him to come in again. He also told him that it had a 425hp L56 instead of LS6. I gotta get me one o-them.

I had a dealer tell me that Crimson Pearl was the discontinued red but Steel Blue was still available. :thepan:
-Mike

-uplink-
09-20-05, 02:22 AM
Unfortunately, most car sales guys are not "car" guys.... you, as an enthusiast, will usually know more.



Funny you should mention this. I had a 'discussion' with a Mitsu-dealer when I was checking out Evos last year. When he started telling me about the great water sprayer feature I questioned why they would use complicated electronic gadgets rather than a properly sized Spearco (or other brand) intercooler that didn't need it. His only answer, 'Because if you change the intercooler it would void your warranty.' :banghead: He also tried explaining that the reason you don't see Evos racing with M3's is because they have an unfair advantage and aren't allowed.
-Mike

Closer_2001
09-20-05, 12:41 PM
[on soap box]

Having been the Sales Manager at the largest Acura dealer in the Southwest Zone...know the following

1. Most dealers are owned by National conglomerates that look at the bottom line first.

2. Most people who run dealerships (General Manager Level) have difficulty understanding complex long-term thinking. They most typically started out selling cars in the 80's and were promoted to their current position. They typically have a high-school education at best. They believe cutting costs (hiring idiot sales people that can afford to live on $30k / year) increases their bottom line, vs. investing in and training quality people.

3. If you walk in off the street into a dealership, you will mostly encounter the guys mentioned in #2. These are not the professional sales people who spend their day prospecting and following up. These are the ones who stand around BSing and waiting for an "up."

4. Pro sales people do not hang out by the door. In fact pro-sales people hate waiting for a client by the door. An "up" has an 18-20% chance of closing. A referral or appointment typically has a 60-70% chance of closing. Where would you spend more time? Also, since they don't stand around BSing, they typically are researching their product and the competition. They know what programs are available and how that might help them close you. i.e. - If they know you want a low payment and the CTS-V has an incentivized lease - they are more likely to earn your business by telling you about it.

A few top ways to find a good car sales person and save yourself the hassles.

1. Find the sales guy who is greeting service customers in the morning -

2. Ping the internet and spell out what you want to accomplish on a visit to the dealership. Set up an appointment with the guy that knows how to spell in his email. Show up on time for your appointment. If you just show-up, there is a good chance he/she will be busy because he/she is a pro sales person with other appointments.

3. Visit your local CU or Bank and get a referral to a sales person.

4. Ask your forum buddies who they like.

5. Be up-front about pricing and what you want. Car sales people are lied-to all day long.

[/soap box]

Now - if anyone can help me outline the following process when buying furniture, I would be most greatful I hate furniture shopping!! ;)

Dado DTM
09-20-05, 01:19 PM
Hi.

It's a bit of a haul to go to Tysons to get to Moore, but it may be the only reasonable choice??

Nevertheless, I continue to remain very excited about getting a V. Hope not to have to see the dealership very often.

I live in Montogomery County as well and the haul is not that bad. 20 minutes or so.

Come on by :) . We can show some V's that we have with aftermarket parts as well. The drift car is also on site if you want to see it. We do have a couple V's in stock. Over 8 I believe. You know who to ask for ;)

Just let us know before coming to make sure we are here. We do travel a lot due to the races so we are gone quite a bit.

GOTTSPD
09-20-05, 11:20 PM
Dado-DTM:
Very cool, I'll definitely take you up on it!

firemist
09-20-05, 11:54 PM
My favorite bumper sticker seen here in Michigan said, "If you ain't Texan, you ain't $hit."

Laughed my butt off :histeric: .




AMEN...

TEXAS BORN :yup:

ylwjacket
09-21-05, 12:35 PM
For example - I'd be in a Volvo S60R right now instead of a V (not that I'm complaining) if it wasn't for the arseholes at the BMW/Volvo/Porsche dealership here in Reno. They have lost exactly FOUR sales to me now - a 330i 4 years ago, an M3 shortly after that, the S60R I speak of here, and just recently - when I gave the wife a :thumbsup: to figure out what here "mid-life crisis sports car" might be - they pissed her off just as she was about to offer to write a check for the little Boxster-S she found on the lot.



My local BMW place lost me on an X5 4.4 3 years ago (I bought somewhere else), a 545i (bought the V instead), and recently on a X5 4.8 (decided to keep the wife's beater - a Jag).

My wife is hot to trade her beater for a 645 (now 650?). They'll probably treat me like a dirtbag again, and she'll still be driving her car.

SoFlaV
09-24-05, 02:12 AM
Just for kicks I had Vista BMW appraise my V; they came back and told me at best they could offer $33,000 for her. This was back in June, when I only had 8K miles. The sales guy there acted like he was doing me a favor by offering that much; of course, I knew they had just flipped a Redline V for $45K.

Buying and selling cars is horse trading for the 21st century. There's no rhyme or reason to it. My roommate bought a 2005 GTO from my hometown dealership in KENTUCKY after being told by the local dealers here not only were they not offering sticker, but marking the GTOs UP by $3 and 4K as a "market correction price". When he asked about the GM employee discount price, they went back to sticker. Literally speaking, he saved around $4K by making the drive north.

ace996
09-24-05, 04:50 PM
It is such a shame that dealers have a bad reputation, but they've earned it. When I went to look at the V, the salesman started writing up paperwork without the incentives and told me just how good a deal I was getting. I knew he was effing with me, so I said my son crapped his pants and had to go. I came back a few days later with my homework done, and haggled for about 2hours..then the mgr sat down with me. All said and done, I had 7K taken off from the origional quote!!!!
Freakin' thieves....the'll screw you as hard as you'll let them. And then the service people take over ....I hate them more.

kjr39
09-24-05, 05:03 PM
I had read an article right after employee pricing for everyone came out. Basically the article talked about a study that GM did asking people which they would rather do more: Have a root canal or purchase a new car? I don't remember the exact stats, but basically, significantly more people would rather have a root canal than go purchase a new car.

That, from the articles point of view, was the reasoning behind the employee pricing gimick. To try and make the car buying experience easier.

For me, I think that the car dealer era is out of date. Why the hell can't I buy a car from GM? Why do I have to go to a 3rd party that doesn't know what they hell they are talking about and upcharging me for a product that I know more about then they do?