: Pictures of relocated PCM



MARK99STS
09-18-05, 09:29 AM
I couldn't figure out how to post pics on the board so here is a link to my web page. Sorry if it loads slow for those with dialup. By relocating the computer, it freed up a bunch of space as you can see. The piggyback is mounted under the dash out of site.

I also got the module installed to switch the traction control. It works perfectly with no codes.

Hay Danbuc, Kevin dosen't think he is going to produce these as he just threw it together from some spare parts. I'll see if he can post a schematic and the exact relays he used.

I think I will put some kind of fan above the PCM as it may get a little warm crammed in there. Anbody have any ideas?

http://www.markonemtg.com/marks99sts/id3.html

eldorado1
09-18-05, 11:06 AM
So what is it you're planning on doing? I gather the turbo part, but how are you controlling fuel delivery?

MARK99STS
09-18-05, 09:44 PM
We're going to put on a different fuel rail system that will be metal rather than plastic and go with a higher flow pump with a boost a pump setup. The guy that is doing this for me has all the specifics so I will keep every body posted as we progress. There is one small glitch in the program that will be downloaded tomorrow. Then we can start experimenting with A/F ratios thru the piggy back to see how everything responds. If that goes well we will start on Phase II which will be the fitting of the exhaust and intercooler piping and work on the fuel delivery system.

davesdeville
09-19-05, 03:37 AM
So you have a piggyback computer as the only thing controlling the injectors or is the piggyback computer running extra injectors with the stock ones still run by the PCM? What exactly do you mean by "boost a pump setup?" Boost referenced fuel regulator?

Yesterday I figured I'd figure out how much it'd cost me to do a wild turbo system on my ETC, running anything less than 8-10psi is fairly pointless IMO since nitrous would net the same gain for cheaper. I'd probably use a megasquirt controlling extra injectors. Arias pistons, Eagle rods, LSD, high stall convertor, injectors, megasquirt, and other misc parts would add up to around $4-5k. I figure I could squeeze a low 10 out of the car on race gas, provided the trans didn't go (which it would after a couple dozen of those runs.) I decided my 75 would be cheaper to build to go that fast.

How much boost are you planning to run? How much are you paying if you don't mind me asking?

WoodShoe
09-19-05, 08:17 AM
Did u take it to the track before u started doing the turbo setup? Im just curious as to the numbers u ran with a huge stall speed...

danbuc
09-19-05, 11:48 AM
Thanks Mark. As long as I can find the right relays and stuff than I should should be fine. Did he use a plain breadboard and just solder everything onto it? If so, that will make it much easier. Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

MARK99STS
09-19-05, 11:55 PM
So you have a piggyback computer as the only thing controlling the injectors or is the piggyback computer running extra injectors with the stock ones still run by the PCM?

The piggyback will control the motor by sending skewed info to the stock PCM from the MAF and O2 sensors. We will be able to program the piggyback to make the stock do what we want. For now we will stay with the stock injectors.

I'm planning on running about 6lbs of boost max. Any more would be dangerous on a stock motor running 10.3 to 1 compression.
According to my expert it should put out about 400-425 at the wheels. For more info on the computer, go to this site:
http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/content-22.html


WoodShoe, I am still going to the track before the season is over. The things I have done so far are just in preparation for the turbo so I will still get times before and after.




Danbuc, He did use just plain breadboard and soldered the relays on and 2 pieces of cat 5 cable. I will try to get you the info about the relays he used as soon as I get back. Will be out of town the rest of the week.

davesdeville
09-20-05, 07:38 AM
Ah yes I've seen that "xtended fuel controller" and was curious about it but the site still shows the estimated release date. Do you actually have it in hand or is it on order?

What gas are you planning on running? The N* has good cast pistons and forged rods so I'd say on 101 or 104 unleaded you could get away with significantly more than 6psi, but I doubt you want to pay that much per gallon.

I'd say 400-425fwhp would be a bit optimistic, but looking at your other mods it seems pretty realistic. Good luck.

WoodShoe
09-20-05, 11:32 AM
Cant wait to see what it runs...
I have a friend running 22PSI (turbo/intercooled) on his GTP. Runs 12.1 so far with huge traction problems. Anyhow, hes only pushing about 450-500 hp to the wheels, so I'd also say over 400 is a little optimistic with only 6psi, but I guess we wont know till its done :)

eldorado1
09-20-05, 11:34 AM
Make sure you get an intercooler. I didn't see this mentioned yet. You will have problems of the severe variety if you do not have one.

Also, I'm kind of curious why you went with the interface box, instead of an aftermarket computer. I've seen Holleys and haltechs go for $500 used.

danbuc
09-20-05, 11:50 AM
Without the stock PCM, your gauge cluster wouldn't work, and the car would not be driveable.

Personally, I don't think the 4T80E is going to stand up to 450+ bhp, but I guess we'll see. You can always get it built up with nice stuff later on.

MARK99STS
09-20-05, 11:51 AM
Do you actually have it in hand or is it on order?

It has already been installed on the car. That's when I relocated the PCM. I also have heard that I could go higher than 6lbs. of boost. I guess it comes down to how much of a risk I want to run or how much I want to pay for gas.
Personally I would rather run on pump gas and keep it within safe limits. The beauty of the XFC is that I can program it for say 5-6psi, save that calibration and have another program for 10psi on 104 race gas and change if I want to go to the track with no more hassle than reloading a program and changing gas.

MARK99STS
09-20-05, 12:06 PM
Cant wait to see what it runs...
I have a friend running 22PSI (turbo/intercooled) on his GTP. Runs 12.1 so far with huge traction problems. Anyhow, hes only pushing about 450-500 hp to the wheels, so I'd also say over 400 is a little optimistic with only 6psi, but I guess we wont know till its done :)


Your comparing apples and oranges. We're talking a V8 32 valve double overhead cam engine. It is going to flow a SERIOUSLY HUGE amount of air as compared to a non double overhead motor.

I will most certainly be using an intercooler.

MARK99STS
09-20-05, 12:14 PM
Personally, I don't think the 4T80E is going to stand up to 450+ bhp, but I guess we'll see. You can always get it built up with nice stuff later on.

I was going to build the motor originally when we had the cam caps issue when I put the motor back in the car if you recall, but since it is running ok, I will use it as the guinea pig. If it goes or when it goes I will do the motor and tranny all at once. I don't want to pull the motor and tranny more than once especially if it is running good.

eldorado1
09-20-05, 12:42 PM
It is going to flow a SERIOUSLY HUGE amount of air as compared to a non double overhead motor.


This is true. You'll see some massive gains just getting to "0" psi.

MARK99STS
09-20-05, 12:49 PM
Danbuc,
I just talked to Kevin and what he used was 4 telecommunications double pole-double throw relays soldered on a board using cat 5 cable making sure the cable is twisted. He is going to put up a scematic next week and link it to his site.

turbojimmy
09-20-05, 01:00 PM
It has already been installed on the car. That's when I relocated the PCM. I also have heard that I could go higher than 6lbs. of boost. I guess it comes down to how much of a risk I want to run or how much I want to pay for gas.
Personally I would rather run on pump gas and keep it within safe limits. The beauty of the XFC is that I can program it for say 5-6psi, save that calibration and have another program for 10psi on 104 race gas and change if I want to go to the track with no more hassle than reloading a program and changing gas.

You can get or make a pretty compact alcohol injection kit, too. There are some really quick Turbo Regal guys with pump gas and methanol or denatured alcohol injection. The alcohol has the added benefit of cooling the intake charge, too. I use denatured because methanol is tougher to get. I can run 22-23 PSI with 94 octane fuel and a chip calibrated for 110 octane fuel. If you're interested, check out turbobuick.com and look for posts by Razor. He manufactures one of the most advanced progressive (increases alcohol flow based on boost levels) injection kits (he's in the 10s in a TTA with his kit and pump gas).

Seems like it's a bit premature for you to consider alternate fueling, but keep it in mind.

Jim

danbuc
09-20-05, 01:03 PM
Cool. If you ever want to rebuild the trany in the future, I found a place that does some pretty good work. http://protechtransmissions.com/about.html I spoke to them a while back, and they said that they only did 4T80E's in house. If you do have to rebuild it in the future, I would call them up first and see what they have to say.

MARK99STS
09-20-05, 02:18 PM
Thanks Danbuc,
actually I have a guy that rebuilds trannys for Lingenfelter, but I'll cross that bridge when and if I come to it.

WoodShoe
09-25-05, 02:49 AM
There is a local guy with a late model fierro around here. It has a Turboed n* motor (6psi) Runs a 12.9...kind of dissapointing in such a little car...not that thats slow by any means...

davesdeville
09-25-05, 08:45 AM
Oh yeah I meant to ask this before... what turbo are you using? 279ci at 6500rpm takes a lot of air and having good compressor efficency and avoiding compressor surge at a 1.4 pressure ratio is going to take a big turbo.

I've been giving my own turbo northstar idea more thought now that I know the XFC is a go, thinking a Garrett T76 would be good, efficient at 8psi which should be do-able on 91 and efficient up to about 21psi (if I wanted to run race gas and blow the trans, that is.)

If you get a chance, ask your specialist what volumetric efficiency he's using to calculate airflow demands. I'm figuring about 80% but I could be pretty far off.

MARK99STS
09-25-05, 10:25 AM
He is going to use a 62 to 1 Turbonetics.

danbuc
09-25-05, 02:09 PM
I want to know where your planning to mount this turbo?

MARK99STS
09-25-05, 05:16 PM
Danbuc,
It will be mounted in the left front corner where the PCM and air filter box used to be. The details will be worked out as we get into it.

danbuc
09-25-05, 09:33 PM
I'm interested to see how you'll go about re-routing the exhaust over there...should make for a very interesting layout.

davesdeville
09-26-05, 03:54 AM
Yeah, I'd be really interested to know what volumetric efficency your expert is using in his calculations.

Assuming 80% VE at 6psi the engine would need about 40lb/minute max. On a T04B 62-1 that's about 65% compressor efficiency. Increase the VE to 85% and compressor efficency will drop off the map, decrease it to 75%VE and we're at about 71% efficency. I would think 85% is probably more accurate than 75% so I would think a 62-1 would be a bit on the small side. There are T series T-61 and T-62s that would work well though.

MARK99STS
09-28-05, 09:51 AM
Davesdeville,
I'm not trying to avoid your questions, but I don't want to get in the middle of a conversation that I know nothing about. My guy told me that any forced induction you use 100% volumetric efficiency for calculations. I'm going with what he says as he has been doing this a long time. When it is finished I'll see how it runs.

davesdeville
09-28-05, 10:56 AM
I'm not trying to second guess your guy if that's what your thinking. Just trying to glean as much info as possible in case I decide to turbo my own car. With enough careful thought into the design of a system (mostly the computer controls I'm concerned about) it wouldn't be hard to get a kit together to sell.

MARK99STS
09-28-05, 11:40 AM
Sorry, thats not what I was implying, I just didn't want to get into the technical part as I am very ignorant regarding that. He intends to offer kits if we can make it work. He has already done one for his 99 C-5 and is in the process of doing a twin turbo setup for Z06. He will offer kits for these setups for those interested. Granted there may be less demand for an STS turbo kit as compared to one for a Corvette, but you never know. I'll keep you posted with the progress. As soon as we get the debuged program for the XFC, I am going to the track and see how much we can squeek out of it by tweeking the air fuel ratios while it is still basically stock.

weister42
10-01-05, 01:32 PM
A turbocharged Cadillac in general will get more "coolness points" than anything else, now u just have to make ur STS RWD...and u can be in Fast and Furious 3:cool2: