View Full Version : Free CD/T Shirt....'76 Coupe De Ville/ blueboy 09-16-05, 12:23 AM Hi all, I have returned !
I posted some queries about six months ago but I've been away.
Here are my questions once again.
I have a very nice one prev owner 1976 Coupe de Ville currently with 105k genuine miles.
It is sky blue with white leather int. It has a white vinyl half roof.
about 2 years ago I had sedan de ville springs and armstrong shocks installed. It also has a $1k CD/FM stereo system disguised as a vintage radio. The interior is in great shape, no dash cracks etc.
My problem is a 'clattering' from the engine. This has been intermittent before but now its permanent. My friend and I took off the valve covers and tried to determine the source of the clattering.
The left side was fine, lotsa oil spouting up the channels and all looking good. the right side was a different story. the two center lifters were bone dry and there was a lotta sludge (maybe from all that mystery additive and such!). We figure that those two lifters are bad..... are they spring loaded at the base ? anyway we are pretty sure they need to be renewed. My predicament is thus:
do we just replace those two lifters (does this need a head removal?) bolt back up and carry on or should we remove the heads, do a TEO, check the camshaft/valves et al ? My feeling is that I should do a top end O/H but that could be expensive eh ? And what if its not the lifters ? I mean what else could it be ? Please let me know your thoughts on all this guys....Thanks
BTW if its not the lifters and anyone gets to diagnose the exact problem gets a free CD and T shirt !!!! see: http://www.cdbaby.com/hinkley
p.s.I love this car and I fully intend to get it running properly once again however, with the gas price situation looking like its just gonna get worse and worse I have started to investigate propane fuel. Seems this is a very good alternative especially for an oldercast iron low stressed engine. Although the fuel mileage is not quite as good, the engine benefits from a cleaner fuel and propane is half the price of petroleum gas.
More on this later in a seperate post
Rock on
Tim Hinkley davesdeville 09-16-05, 09:51 AM It would be silly to not replace all the lifters if you're going for one. Shouldn't have to pull the heads. blueboy 09-16-05, 12:16 PM thanks, I just got a quote of $1200/2000 and that's just pulling the engine apart and without the cost of replacement parts.
Can you help with the process of replacing the lifters ?
I mean do I have to pull the heads and more importantly, the cam ?
I believe the cam has to come out from the front of the engine,. is that correct ?
Thanks You will have to pull the valve covers and the intake. From there you loosen the rockers and pull the pushrods (I would replace those while you are at it too, fairly cheap) then pull the lifters out of their "holes". There is a tool that you can get (IRC) that is pretty cheap to help you pull the lifters if they are stubborn...
Reverse the process to put it back together. Some people put "break in" lube on the new lifters, some just put vasaline on them. Some (including me) soak them in oil before installing also.
Hope this helps
Edit:
Yes the cam comes out the front of the engine, meaning you have to pull the radiator, grill, and anything else that might be in the way. If this is something you want to do, then I would recommend getting one of the newer grinds that improves torque and mpg... blueboy 09-17-05, 10:48 PM Yeah man ! I met a fedex pilot on my travels who is also a trained mechanic. He drew me a diagram and it expained the whole process.
Now I know that the oil goes up through the hollow center of the rods I'm convinced that the two 'dry' lifters we found on the r/h bank are the problem. I will however change all 16 rods and lifters.
My other concern is the cam.... I may think about pulling it. I know this requires taking out the grill, radiators etc but might be a good opportunity to flush the cooling system anyway. Can I pull the camshaft without pulling the heads?
There is also the whole question of whether to replace the rocker assembly springs et al. There are some very nice ugrades for the rocker assembly. davesdeville 09-18-05, 06:15 AM You can do the cam without pulling the heads. The stock rockers (well the T pedistals) were pretty weak but on a stock or near stock engine it's not worth it to upgrade. blueboy 09-19-05, 12:13 PM Thanks davesdeville,
I have also contemplated replacing the timing chain and gears and the cam bearing, but I have decide to wait until I can afford some nice new ally heads et al.
So, first things first. I am about to order the pushrods, lifters, gaskets and tools.
I know about the tool for retrieving the lifters but do I need a torque wrench for the rockers etc.?
Also, can I flush the engine to get rid of any 'sludge' or other gunge.
I don't want the new pushrods to cease functioning due to any muck that may still be in the oil/system. I'm going to replce the plugs and wires, and obviuosly renew gaskets and whatever I find broken or suspect as I go along but what other impovements should I make considering this is a 30 year old vehicle ? Upgraded oil pump, HEI ignition, improved water pump ? I notice that maximum torque do an nice upgraded water pump. Is it a difficult replacement job ?
Davesdeville, if you send me your mailing address via my email and I'll send you a CD for your listening pleasure. Hope you like soul music !
p.s. just ordered the workshop manual !!
Rock on
Tim blueboy 09-19-05, 12:59 PM PS Also thought about replacing the thermostat as it is a cgeap item ! blue71eldo 09-19-05, 01:30 PM I would upgrade at least the pumps. Flow-Kooler makes a nice water pump (99.92 on summitracing.com), as for the install on it, according to my shop manual it doesn't look too bad. Oil pump/fuel pump, there are upgraded ones out there for around 130 (OE replacements are around 40), and from what I've read the upgraded ones only help for high hp high tq applications over stock, so based on what you've said sticking with the stock for now should be fine. HEI ignition is fine for what your using, you can upgrade it, but it's such an easy swap my opinion would be to just stick with what you have and save the money until you know it might need it. Also, your origional problem might be that a rocker arm slipped. If you were having problem starting it, and there was too much gas in the chamber when it finally turned over, the resulting blast could be enough to push one off...from what I've read it was a problem on the 73-74, not sure for a 76. blueboy 09-19-05, 08:43 PM Thanks for the advice blue71eldo
I havn't seen any problems with the rockers since removing the valve covers.
I think my problem is definately push rods clogging and or lifters malfunctioning.
However I will inspect the rockers and replace if neccessary.
I'm going for the upgraded water pump and a new thermostat as from all I've read, these engines benefit from running cooler especially at idle and the orginal is still on the car. Although replacing it is a tricky job, it doesn't involve heavy work as in removing the pan to replace the oil pump. I'll use new valve springs maybe slightly upgraded...can't do any harm eh ? I'll limit the electrics to new plugs, suitably gapped, new wires and although it was working ok I'm gonna fit an uprated alternator and new high capacity battery. A cooling system/radiator flush, a new oil filter and a couple of oil changes to clean her out, a tune up and with a little luck we'll be running again...... just in time to put $4 a gallon premium gas in the tank. Now about that LPG conversion ?
If anyone has any other cheap mods or upgrades.......................................... .
hold up..I've just read that the valve stem seals and the timing gear were made of some sorta nylon stuff that goes brittle and cracks with age ! Oh man, can I deal with this ? How difficult is it to renew that the valve stem seals and does this mean I should change out the timing chain and gear ? Here we go again ! davesdeville 09-20-05, 09:06 AM I'd definately do the Cloyes true roller timing set. The stocker is kind of a piece of junk, in fact it can be stretched enough to screw up cam timing to where you're losing power. The upgraded water pump wouldn't hurt, and valvestem seals would be good. Valvesprings are a good idea on an engine this old with 105k, and just about required if you're doing a cam. Stock spec springs means valve float at 4200rpm, and that's for new stock spec springs not old 105k springs. 76 engines already have HEI, I wouldn't think of upgrading to MSD or anything unless I was spinning the engine past 7k rpm. A hotter coil or new ignition control module can always be installed after the engine work if you wish, since we're lucky enough to have front mounted distributors. Last thing, 76 engines are 8.5:1 compression so they'll run on 86 octane just fine, if it pings on 86 the timing's too far advanced anyway (or you have a serious carbon deposit problem.) Oh, and about the CD don't worry about it I'm just on here to learn, goof off in the lounge, and share what I have learned. blueboy 09-20-05, 09:36 PM Thanks davesdeville although I being a professional musician and artist am a bit miffed that you turned down the offer of a free CD. I spose inn this age of free downloading and Mp3's I'm lucky that I started out in the 1960's and had my success early.
Anyway I'm excited about getting blueboy running again. Just a bit worried about the replacement of the timing gear...is it a heavy job ? I mean what is the breakdown proceedure ? According to my Haynes manual its not such a big deal. Of course in practice just a bolt that breaks before its loosened makes it a big job. I suppose if I'm removing the timing plate/cover I should probably pull the cam and inspect.
Thoughts please. davesdeville 09-21-05, 04:08 AM No disrespect but I don't consider myself a soul music kind of dude, that's all. I appreciate all forms of music but I doubt the CD would get much use. I could send you one of my gangster rap CDs but I doubt it would get much use from you. Give it to someone who will listen to it a lot.
The timing chain set isn't too difficult,
this may be an SBC (http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/en_engine_block/article/0,2021,DIY_13807_2276769,00.html) so some of it's differant from a big Cad but it gives a fair idea of the work involved. blueboy 09-25-05, 01:10 PM Thanks for all your advice Caddy lovers.
Ok I am about to order my parts and get into "Mechanic' mode !
Just one other question.
Can I just replace the lifters, push rods and valve springs...apart from gaskets, oil filter, oil, what other parts need replacing...valve seals have been mentioned..do they require head removal and are there any other parts thet I need to replace i.e. valve retainers, keepers, o rings etc ? I do intend to replace the water pump while the car is in 'the garage' | |