I recently bought a '75 Caddy 500 and I am looking for a good way to put an updated FI system on it. Is there a good company that does it or if a company makes an updaed manifold to fit new injectors....Please Help


Thank you in Advance


Check out My Project:
http://www.1953buick.com

Well, if you're technically inclined, join this group: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/megasquirt/
It's a totally homebuilt FI system. You can buy a PC board and parts kit from them if you want, or not. All the information to build the system is there and free.
If you really want to push your technical skills, you can go here:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/megaspark/
Electronically controlled ignition...
I used to belong to these groups, and probably will join them again, as I want to build a multi port FI for the 368 Hearse I'm buying.

The megasquirt is versatile enough that there is even one guy (IRC) that has on on a motorcycle... So there is a project I could use too...

Good Luck

If you know how to do the rest of the system, great. The options for manifolds would be:

-Stock manifold drilled for injector bungs (cheapest but a PITA to drill properly I'd imagine)
-Stock FI manifold, 1976 only and IIRC maybe 1% of cars had that option so it's RARE.
-Bulldog cast aluminum single plane manifold, which has places to drill for injector bungs easily.
-Boogieman from Potter, which is a good manifold but not sure if it will clear a stock hood if that's what you're working with.

Wouldn't bother with the Edelbrock 2115 especially since you're doing FI.

Options for manifolds also include 425 F.I. manifolds which are the same except for some EGR differences and will work on the 500. They are not too difficult to find if you know where to look and are not in a hurry. Someone made an adaptor to use a Fode 460 manifold on the 500. IIRC they made a port injected 460 for trucks. Maybe there's one waiting in the truck boneyard near you.

I knew I was forgetting something. The adapter plates for the 460 work, in fact a friend of mine is designing a cross ram FI manifold for the BBF in one of his mech. engineering classes that I could run on a 500 with those plates.

I forgot about the 425 FI manifolds but they're pretty dang rare too.

The stock F/I intakes are rare.. But Al at MTS had some on ebay and did not sell them.. So if you give him a call I'm sure he's got some with throttle body.
There are many aftermarket computers that will run your car just fine.. from a built it yourself for a few hundred... to $1000 to $3000 ready to go systems.

Or you could just buy the Holley 4bbl throttle body kit... It's under $1000

http://www.holley.com/data/Catalogs/Holley(137-182).pdf

But why even bother with TBI when a well tuned quadrajet will do just about the same thing for 1/3 the cost? If you want FI, MPFI is the only way to go. (Well, unless you can do sequential MPFI...)

That's true, but it is a fi option...
Personally I'd rather do the Megasquirt with the manifold of my choice, but with mine I'll probably stay with the stock quadrajet and do some tinkring... Gotta love tinkering with carbs... :)

I'm doing Megasquirt. It looks intimidating.

Yeah, but where else can you have a laptop sitting on the seat beside you as you adjust your fuel curve, injector timing, and everything else associated with it...
Then kick in the megaspark and adjust everything having to do with spark...

Yeah, it does look intimidating tho, prolly why I haven't started on it yet... :)

Yeah Chrome, tell me about it. I am so looking forward to that.

Nah, what's intimidating is trying to get a megasquirt control the injection of liquid propane. (exactly why I'm going for carbureted instead...)

Haha dave until I got to the end of the post I thought you were going for LPG injection...the carb is always good, but I'm ready for something new. Aside from having no flat spots, etc like a carb and better fuel economy, I think I will have a serial cable coming into the cabin permanitly, and then just buy an old laptop, re-format it and put nothing but the Megasquirt software on there, and make that it's dedicated job.

I have an old 486/33 laptop that I figured would be perfect for this application. You should be able to find something old on eBay cheap... The battery is junk, but I leave it plugged in all the time anyway.

Being a computer Guy I have some of those "older/antiques" around and they would be great use for this.


Drew

Check out My Project:
http://www.1953buick.com (http://www.1953buick.com/)

Yeah I think I will pick up an old shoddy one just to keep in the car for $50 or something, have nothing on it but the OS and the MEgasquirt programs. I'm looking forward to the setup.

Check these guys out
http://force-efi.com/

I liked this statement:
Send us your Single plane intake and we will send back a custom fuel injection system. AMC, Buick, Cadillac, Chrysler, Ford, Olds, Pontiac, etc. Foreign and Imports also

Mike (Scotty)

-Stock FI manifold, 1976 only and IIRC maybe 1% of cars had that option so it's RARE.


The EFI system on the 500's was used from late 1974-1976. I used to own a '76 Fleetwood Brougham EFI 500! What a sweet running engine that was!

After some searching I guess it was offered those years. Through all the cars I've looked at I haven't seen a single FI 75, much less 74. So I will stick to my statement about them being rare.

Either way they are extremly rare.

I did a nationwide search on www.car-parts.com (http://www.car-parts.com/) for the 500 CU IN EFI engine and found only one, a 1976 for $500 at Burlington Auto Parts, Shirley, MA, 800-228-5544 Mike

Dirt cheap. Buy it!

Yeah you really should, that's a great price for any good 500, but then throw in the EFI option and it's just too good to miss! If it weren't so far away I would go grab it myself and rob it of the manifold, fuel rail, gas tank intake parts, etc and keep the rest for parts or sell it, something like that.

After some searching I guess it was offered those years. Through all the cars I've looked at I haven't seen a single FI 75, much less 74. So I will stick to my statement about them being rare.

Oh, they are rare! I've never seen a '74 with EFI, but I've seen some '75's. The '76s seem to be the most plentiful, and they are out there if you look hard enough! :bonkers:

Don't the EFI ones have the gold air cleaner top?

I just about had one of these. My brother in law replaced the EFI 500 with a carbed one, and had all the EFI stuff hanging around.

But then the ***hole that did the engine swap, and the same one that was responsible for the EFI 500 getting wrecked, threw it all out! All I got was the gold air cleaner lid.

I wanted to do an updated EFI system for a high compression 472, like the one in my '70 Fleetwood. That thing would have been a powerhouse!

Mike

Okay, so they do have the gold air cleaner lid. I've seen a couple or three of them on Ebay.

guidematic, that really sucks dude! So your brother in law wrecked your car, then volunteeered to fix it, and replaced the engine with the carbed version, right?

That is really too bad man. You should go pick up that engine and switch them back out lol.

Actually it was his car, a 1976 Coupe deVille. He took it to some butcher to have some work done, such as repair those commonly found exhaust manifold bolts. Somehow the idiot got metal into the exhaust ports and it holed a piston.

My brother in law bought a '75 Sedan deVille for parts and the engine, and had this guy put it in his coupe. He even made a mess of that. I spent a whole day working on it so that it was even driveable.

I had been after him for the EFI stuff for some time since he always pondered the idea of putting a carb on it. But when he got the engine replaced, I asked him about the EFI manifold etc, and he went back for it only to find that it all went into a scrap bin, and was hauled off.

Man, that pissed me off. And, my brother in law has been pretty good about spreading the bad word about this guy too. These guys should not be allowed to work on even lawn mowers. Turns out the guy was not even licenced and had no idea what he was doing in the first place. Just some clown that started working out of his garage, then rented an industrial unit. No formal training at all. He knew so little that he said "I can get that fuel injection working, no problem" Little did he know that it was completely differant from anything he as ever messed with. I tried to warn him, but he was so ignorant that he just brushed me off. Now he knows. And it cost him his reputation (what little he had).

Mike

Those EFI systems do not lend themselves to modification. All you can really do is change the fuel pressure regulator to an adjustabile unit for a little more pressure across the injectors. You will be limited under full throttle. Even an American Standard Bernoulli porcelain fuel distribution unit will make more power on a modified engine. It won't idle as well as the EFI though!

What I wanted to do was to use the ECM, sensors and so forth from a 4.9. I am fully aware that they are completely differant, and the old analog system does not lend itself to any modifications well. Even removing the convertor can affect them.

Also, the firing order is differant, but that can be dealt with by rearranging the injector harness. But, it's the differance in displacement and the spark curve requirements that would pose the greatest challenge.

But, even a system from, say, a Chevrolet Vortec 454 could be set up to work. I would use only the manifold, injectors, fuel rail and other basic hardware. The 1000cfm throttle body would have to be reworked to adapt it to a current TPS and AIC motor and so forth, or a more current large cfm throttle body could be adaped to fit.

This was something that I wanted to play with to see if it could be done without having to mortgage the homestead.

Mike

Have you seen the Megasquirt?

You will not be able to drive those old injectors with a modern ECM. Also would need a way to come up with a cam sensor for SFI. Sounds like a great idea though.

Don't the EFI ones have the gold air cleaner top?

Yes, that's usually the easiest way to identify one!

Well for now I am just modifying the stock intake to accept a Holley throttle body, and using the megasquirt system. We are trying to find a gas tank from an EFI one to get the top intake system from it...but I'm not sure how that will go.

Have you seen the Megasquirt?

You will not be able to drive those old injectors with a modern ECM. Also would need a way to come up with a cam sensor for SFI. Sounds like a great idea though.

I'm reasonably familiar with them, but I'd prefer to try to make this set up work if I could. It's just an idea, though.

If the old injectors don't work, I'd swap them with newer ones. It depends on what the drivers in the ECM are capable of. I know I'd need some sort of a set up for the cam and crank sensor. But, it seems to me they are incorporated into the distributor on the 4.9's. If so, then that would be a reasonably simple swap into the HEI distributor on the 500. But there again, the differant firing orders may prove troublesome.

Mike

Ive also been thinking about MS for my cad.

Exactly what does it do better, than a well built and tuned Q-Jet?

How will it affect fuel economy?

Will it be any better for throttle response?

It mixes air and fuel together better. It will provide better throttle response, better performance, and better fuel economy.

And no flat spots like a carby. Of course, you will loose the feeling of the secondaries opening up when you punch it.

And no flat spots like a carby. Of course, you will loose the feeling of the secondaries opening up when you punch it.

You mean that feeling when the carbonator is not delivering the correct mixture to the engine and the engine is losing power while the vacuum signal catches up.:shhh:

And no flat spots like a carby. Of course, you will loose the feeling of the secondaries opening up when you punch it.

Heck, the 4.9 in my '94 Deville has off-idle stumble like a carb! :hmm:

Replace its accelerator pump then :p

Replace its accelerator pump then :p

If only it was that easy! It reminds me of the "Quadra-bog" on my old 425's! :crying2:

If only it was that easy! It reminds me of the "Quadra-bog" on my old 425's! :crying2:

Same with mine. She took her sweet time thinking about what she wanted to do when the secondaries opened up.

Ok, there seems to be some misconceptions about fuel injection here. The bottom line is older TBI based systems are offer marginal performance gains if any, and are only marginally efficient against a well tuned carburetor. TBI is only capable of pooping fuel into the broad landscape of the intake just like any regular carb. It is true that with the precision of injectors, the amount of fuel given can rapidly fluctuate (why EFI systems can have better throttle response). Also, with high pressure EFI, fuel can atomize more efficiently. Lastly, air to fuel ratio adjustments on the fly are hard to beat. BUT, let us not forget the nature of these stock TBI systems of this era was for “efficiency” in MPG, not performance, and as noted earlier, the economic gains were marginal.

Where the real-deal EFI comes in is with any MFI (Multi-port Fuel Injection), DPI (Direct Port Injection), CPI (Central Port Injection), or TPI (Tuned Port Injection). The common thing between these systems is “port injection” – meaning all of these systems employ an injector per cylinder ratio. With the understanding that in most cases, many small machines/engines/forces working together are frequently more efficient than one large one, a broad TBI system can be compared to an MFI system.

For reference, three 2bbl carbs were the hot setup back in the day for a few reasons; they administered fuel very well, were efficient at all operating levels for the most part, and had GREAT throttle response since the venturis were small (opposed to fewer large ones). Now, if it weren’t a nightmare to set a small 1bbl carb for each cylinder up, we’d be set (ever see OLD FI systems or multi-carb Hilborn setups?).

The point is you won’t gain much unless you get serious about setting an injector per cylinder rig up. Long story short, I’d get some fuel injector bungs or machine an intake to accept injectors, accept the challenge of setting fuel rails up, and use a universal air-only throttle body with a 4bbl pattern, and hook it all up with an 80’s TPI (or later model LT1) harness with a wildly burned prom accounting for modifications and engine size.

The beauty of a TPI harness is it’s that it’s extremely simple (primitive), yet amazingly efficient. Since the ECM is also “primitive” by today’s standards, it is very easy to “hack” for modifications. On a simple level, I think about any “4bbl” bolt pattern TBI body could be plopped onto any 4bbl carb manifold (or even “2bbl” base TBI setups with a 2-to-4 adapter). I know there are some differences in the manifold bases, but it’d not be hard to change.

Just my input on EFI; I’d say “long live the carb”, but EFI is GREAT when done right :bonkers:

Direct port injection is where the injector is in the head, not really feasable...

TPI and CPI are just forms of MPFI anyway. The best FI setup for a 500 is definately, IMO, a bulldog or 460 with adapter plates, with a megasquirt controller.

Can anyone think of a reason not to use a dry feedback type clodrajet as a throttlebody for a Megasquirt?

Direct port injection is where the injector is in the head, not really feasable...

DPI was an example, not a suggestion.

Ok, so suppose someone did have a mix and match gm parts bin parts for a TBI setup. I believe it would be very worthwhile, because for the most part here 3 issues have been addressed. Cost, Fuel economy and Performance. Lets not forget a big reason to switch to any kind of efi system....Driveability. EFI car...get in, turn the key car starts in most any weather or altitude. Carbed car...you may have to feather the gas or something to get it started, get the choke to catch, wait for it to warm up before you can go anywhere. Even a simple semi modern TBI setup lets say like 87 or later, you can just get in and go. Reliable when cold or warm at any temperature or altitude. I personally have never been impressed with the power outputs of GM TBI systems but they are very reliable and very simple, a couple injectors, tps, map, o2, cts, all are common and cheap to find or buy. I would not mind a 500 wth a tbi. I guess its cause carbeurators scare me, ive worked heavily with efi being a child of the 80's and having parents who bought only japaneese cars, memories of helping my grandpa troubleshoot some random carb problem and never considering that car reliable cause it wasnt fuel injected. lol.

-The Cadillac Rancher

That's the route I'm going for my '76 500, TBI w/ Megasquirt.

That's the route I'm going for my '76 500, TBI w/ Megasquirt.

Why'd you pick TBI over MPFI?

Has someone come up with a solution for a cam sensor?

Because Holley makes a throttle body that bolts on. What kind of difference would there be between TBI and MPI? A big one? It's still going to be a daily driver...

Wait, you're putting a Holley TBI system on there? Those are like a grand. And hang on a second, you're talking about using a Holley TBI system and a megasquirt? The Holley TBI comes with its own programmable controller.

Not the system just the throttle body...I think.

From what I'm told we are just using a Holley 950 TB and it is definitly not costin a grand.

Ok if you're going with a throttle body with injectors that's tbi. If you have a throttle body that just controls airflow and the injectors are in the runners of the manifold it's MPFI. You sure it's TBI?

The Holley Commander 950 system is TBI and comes with its own control unit. I suppose you could find a used one missing the controller and use a megasquirt.

It's a TBI for sure. The injectors would be in the throttle body. Do you guys think it would be much harder to do multiport? I wanted to kind of but I dunno...since I lack knowledge there is someone helping me and making a lot of decisions. How much of a performance gain would there really be? I'll have to ask about the controller. If it's new then I don't see why we would be using Megasquirt. Is there any advantages Megasquirt has over the Holley System? (Mainly thinking the whol tuning iwht laptop programs, etc thing)

I'm feeling confused right now. A phone call is definitly in order. Thanks for the info Dave

Okay made a phone call to the guy helping me he said nothing has been confirmed or ordered, he just knew the 950 Commander would work. Yes, confirmed that we are talking about a 950 Commander. So he didn't know it came with it's own controller. However, since it hasn't been ordered, etc yet. Would it be much work for a good machine shop to convert the stock manifold for multiport? What about the fuel rail, etc? Would this be very hard for a good shop? Also, once again, would the performance increase be worth it?

It is possible to machine the stock manifold but the best choice performance wise is a Bulldog or a 460 intake with the adapter plates. The Bulldog was designed to work with MPFI, it has places to drill injector bungs cast into it. You might even find a 460 manifold that has injector bungs already in there. MPFI will provide a gain over TBI but a good manifold would provide a significant performance gain. The fuel rail shouldn't be too hard, I've even seen homemade rails made from 1/4" square steel that worked just fine. I've heard of using the throttle plate from a computer controlled quadrajet as a throttle body (just the air control butterfly valve section) on the cheap. All told you can get a good megasquirt controlled MPFI system together, even including a Bulldog, is probably cheaper than a new Holley Commander 950 system.

Yeah, I was thinking of the Bulldog for the reason you said. IT is made to house injector bungs if needed. Glad to hear the fuel rail won't be a big deal, or shouldn't.

I would rather get the bulldog, as the 460 manifold and adapter would be expensive as well. That's a good suggestion about the Quadrajet.

Yeah, I looked up the 950 system, very expensive. As I said it was just a suggestion so no one knew pricing, etc.

So you think that the Bulldog manifold combined with the MPFI will be a real significant increase over stock manifold w/ TBI?

If so, I think that may be what I will do. Get a bulldog, drill it for the injectors, and do multiport.

In regards to the Bulldog Intake, Is there a good place to get those relatively reasonable?

I know MTS is charging $425 is that a standard price for these?

Drew

Check out My Project:
http://www.1953buick.com (http://www.1953buick.com/)

Has someone come up with a solution for a cam sensor?

Why not stick a sensor on the distributor. The thing is driven by the camshaft, right?

Dont forget, There is also another advantage when switching to EFI. Junk the distributor, and get one coil per cylinder. Spark advance control easily programmable from your laptop.

Why not stick a sensor on the distributor. The thing is driven by the camshaft, right?

Dont forget, There is also another advantage when switching to EFI. Junk the distributor, and get one coil per cylinder. Spark advance control easily programmable from your laptop.

I believe the reason has to do with precision. There is always a good amount of slop between the camshaft and the dist. The camshaft thrust and distributor thrust will both change the timing relationship between distributor and camshaft. The batch systems worked just fine using reed switches in the distributor but sequential needed more precise cam timing input.

As far as C.O.P. goes, I'd rather use a waste spark system with 4 coils.

Well I had forgotten the fact that the bulldog won't fit under the hood, and any type of small a/c compressor I could fit with custom brackets wouldn't be enough to charge the system anyways.

So it's either modify stock manifold for MPFI, use TBI on it, or just go ahead and throw a Quadrajet on it.

Well I had forgotten the fact that the bulldog won't fit under the hood, and any type of small a/c compressor I could fit with custom brackets wouldn't be enough to charge the system anyways.

So it's either modify stock manifold for MPFI, use TBI on it, or just go ahead and throw a Quadrajet on it.

On my 53 Buick I have plenty of hood clearance beside the fact a custom Chassis is being built

Andrew

Trust me, I probably have about 1.5" to play with.

Why not stick a sensor on the distributor. The thing is driven by the camshaft, right?

Dont forget, There is also another advantage when switching to EFI. Junk the distributor, and get one coil per cylinder. Spark advance control easily programmable from your laptop.

Join the Megajolt group on yahoo... They are working on that too... Kind of a sister group to Megasquirt

Sorry, I forget the Eldo has that little hood clearance, my Deville has like 3 or 4." You have 1.5" over the stock air cleaner assembly? It might still be possible to run a bulldog, maybe if you can adapt a computer controlled quadrajet throttle plate to use as a TB (might be info on CB board?) and then use something like a blow through turbo carb-hat on top of it somehow with a seperate airbox/filter. Might have to get creative. Dunno about the AC compressor, perhaps the later type that will work with the Edelbrock may work - then again not a lot of people running AC and what is pretty much just a full on race manifold.


The bulldogs are pricey. CadCo wants I think $460 for one, or they used to in their Nov 2004 catalog anyway. Potter wants $440. Interestingly enough right next to the bulldog in the CadCo catalog there's a line that reads: "Fuel rail setups ($50) to complete port injection systems are also available - call for more information."

Well I think that I am going to be doing MPFI now. I think I am about to complete a deal for a '76 EFI manifold and fuel rail. What do you guys think?

Well I think that I am going to be doing MPFI now. I think I am about to complete a deal for a '76 EFI manifold and fuel rail. What do you guys think?

Grab it. Ask for the whole system. You can resell most of the stuff and probably break even. Then hook up the more versatile Megasquirt.

All they have is the mani and rail. No computer or anything. The Megasquirt is going to be awesome, I can't wait, no matter how intimidating it seems. However, if I don't like it or somethign bad keeps happening, etc I can break even selling the MEgasquirt for a bit better price and the manifold for a bit more than I bought it for, plus the fuel injectors and everything kind of in a package deal and just throw on a carb. Hopefully it will all work out fine once we get it going and I'll be good to go.

I hope all of you realize that your pretty much flushing any potential show prizes right down the toilet... if squeezing out those extra horses or a few more miles to a tank is worth the dignity of your vehicle, then you must have priorities, that to me, are unheard of. Either that or your saying you dont have a show quality car and you just want to hotrod around town in a rusty 5000lb luxury boat, which really doesnt pain me as much to hear. We have a few RR's and the judges for RR shows will get under and check out ever BOLT to make sure its authentic, if its not you loose points. So if you take your car to a REAL show and open the hood.... well that chrome filter case... sorry, close the hood. Edelbrock intake... sorry, close the hood. MPFI system... *puzzled look* then... sorry, close the hood.

Whatever, maybe im just full of crap.... maybe some of the older members of this forum can agree with me on this.

HOWEVER... to everyone's credit, this is simply a cadillac big block discussion board, so this is all on topic. Im just sharing my opinion. :)

JTraik, you aren't full of crap. You are right.

However, I for one am not building this as a show car. It is simply my daily driver/ built cruiser. I know what you are talking about when it comes to shows. I've been to one. Not with my car, but I've been to one. Shows are all about having an authentic, mint vehicle.

To hardcore original Cadillac fans I would be molesting the crap out of my car. To hardcore Caddy power fans I am stupid for keeping this engine in the eldo. To the normal croud it doesn't matter what I do, they won't think anything of it anyways. To me, I'm building myself a car that is stylish, fun to drive, powerful, reliable, and just plain cool.

I do respect you for building a show car though, and would love to see pictures of it upon completion.

Ok, so none of us will win a show. I didn't get my car to win a show. To me winning a race is one hell of a lot more fun than winning a show anyway, and getting a car to win a race is more fun than getting one to win a show.

My car isn't show quality, it could be if I put some work into it, but I'd rather drive it than show it to snooty people. And it's a New Mexico car, no rust. Plenty of dignity.

If our priorities are "unheard of" ... Bill Burns, Jeff Schwartz, Courtney Hinez, Sean from CB7, and plenty of others would be glad to tell you about them.

BTW, if you take your car to a *real* dragstrip... :histeric:


So as for those two comments about rusty boat/having no dignity... I take a bit of offense to those so as far as I'm concerned you can shove your 5000lb show car right up...

When I'm done with it, my hearse will be a show winner, but it damn sure won't be stock... LOL!
Stock sucks, I gotta tinker/modify everything I own. It's what makes it MINE and shows who I am, not that my cars looks showroom stock just like the other thousands that rolled out that year. If that's your thing then great, but I believe it isn't what a majority of the folks here are into...

Just my 2c

I agree that having a fully origianal restored car is great and it probably will win prizes at shows. That is just fine.

These motors are 25-30 years old and technologly has come a long way since then. I am going to be building my car for the drivablity and new updates that have brought us to the year 2005. My car is currently rough and doesn't warrent restoring to factory, therefore that doesn't make my car any less of a show winner when I am done. I personally think that you get out of your project what you put into it and wheather I have a stock 500 or a FI 500 it shouldn't matter. I built it for me and I if I make it as classy or stylish :cool2: and possible then what is the problem.

I came across the caddy BB and fell in love with the potential and I know that this will all work out for the best at the finish line. (or lights).

Drew

Check out my project
www.1953buick.com (http://www.1953buick.com)

I agree that having a fully origianal restored car is great and it probably will win prizes at shows. That is just fine.

These motors are 25-30 years old and technologly has come a long way since then. I am going to be building my car for the drivablity and new updates that have brought us to the year 2005. My car is currently rough and doesn't warrent restoring to factory, therefore that doesn't make my car any less of a show winner when I am done. I personally think that you get out of your project what you put into it and wheather I have a stock 500 or a FI 500 it shouldn't matter. I built it for me and I if I make it as classy or stylish :cool2: and possible then what is the problem.

I came across the caddy BB and fell in love with the potential and I know that this will all work out for the best at the finish line. (or lights).

Drew

Check out my project
www.1953buick.com (http://www.1953buick.com/)

First of all i do agree with you that the technology has come along way, thats why i put a few things here and there in my engine that i noted to be a little unreliable... like the valve seals, valve seats, rocker system... I should have excluded you specifically from my rant, because you are completly switching out the motor into a different car... thats a whole different ball game. Im speaking the car as a whole.



When I'm done with it, my hearse will be a show winner, but it damn sure won't be stock... LOL!
Stock sucks, I gotta tinker/modify everything I own. It's what makes it MINE and shows who I am, not that my cars looks showroom stock just like the other thousands that rolled out that year. If that's your thing then great, but I believe it isn't what a majority of the folks here are into...

Just my 2c

Allow me to retort... not to be an ass but you just completely contradicted yourself... So your saying that the people who want a car thats stock are a minority, and then you say that the majority of the people want custom cars??? Ok... lets say your right... why am i part of this minority? Perhaps because its ten times harder to find everything stock for the car.... to keep everything stock than it is to plop on mass produced aftermarket items. Understand now???? More work is going into my car by trying to keep it stock than a person like you who slaps on all the edelbrock BS that they make for these cars. If you want your car to be noted for being unique then you may want to do stuff on the level that spyderman is... granted i dont know what kind of work you have done to your car as a whole... but if its just a regular hearse body with a regular interior and you open the hood and you see some "performance" mods here and there that is not a custom car... that is an attempt at a custom car or a custom car in the making...

Sorry thats how i see it... the people at the Cadillac-Lasalle club see it the same way as well... there is none of this talk there, its a much more mature member body... this board is good for problem fixing.. i will give it that much.

So you are saying that I'm immature because I want to "customize" my car and not leave it stock... ROFL you crack me up....
You like it stock, I like it custom... Lets leave it at that, neither one of us is gonna win, we just have different interests.
I am going to leave the body stock, maybe you can help me in that department? I know very little about bodywork. One thing I'm going to be very particular about is the huge piece of real estate covered with vinyl. What would be the best cleaner/protectant for that?

Oops, getting off the topic at hand...

So you are saying that I'm immature because I want to "customize" my car and not leave it stock... ROFL you crack me up....
You like it stock, I like it custom... Lets leave it at that, neither one of us is gonna win, we just have different interests.
I am going to leave the body stock, maybe you can help me in that department? I know very little about bodywork. One thing I'm going to be very particular about is the huge piece of real estate covered with vinyl. What would be the best cleaner/protectant for that?

Oops, getting off the topic at hand...

Maybe i should have been more clear when i said...

there is none of this talk there, its a much more mature member body...

I meant there is no flaming like this, i made an opinion and was returned with fire.

You made an inflammitory comment about us 'sacrificing the dignity' of our 'rust buckets' and you expect us to mail order you kittens and roses? You've gotta be shitting me.

Maybe i should have been more clear when i said...

there is none of this talk there, its a much more mature member body...

I meant there is no flaming like this, i made an opinion and was returned with fire.

Then why don't you go back to your "mature member body"?
No flaming? You started the flaming! Do you recall typing "5000 lb rust buckets" , and "real car shows" Hmmm... I've seen a hell of a lot more "Custom" car shows than the boring shows you are talking about. who the hell wants to see a car that looks like it just rolled out of the factory? BORING...
But you're nothing but a troll, and we seem to be feeding you quite well.
You come into a thread discussing more power, obviously not going to remain stock, and tout your totally stock boring f*cking car shows. Who the f*ck cares?
So why don't you just take your "mature" a$$ back to the forums that agree with you and leave us poor immature folks to our own devices, it seems everyone was doing just fine without your input to begin with.

So what happened to the "Fuel Injected 500" thread?

Come on guys. Everyone has different opinions. Everyone likes their car a different way, thinks different things about it, yadda yadda yadda. JTraik wants a mint Caddy to win mint Caddy shows. Others such as myself want a custom Caddy to have fun with and please themselves with and feed their hobby. Nothing wrong with either of the two.

:brutal: :brutal: :brutal:
Then why don't you go back to your "mature member body"?
No flaming? You started the flaming! Do you recall typing "5000 lb rust buckets" , and "real car shows" Hmmm... I've seen a hell of a lot more "Custom" car shows than the boring shows you are talking about. who the hell wants to see a car that looks like it just rolled out of the factory? BORING...
But you're nothing but a troll, and we seem to be feeding you quite well.
You come into a thread discussing more power, obviously not going to remain stock, and tout your totally stock boring f*cking car shows. Who the f*ck cares?
So why don't you just take your "mature" a$$ back to the forums that agree with you and leave us poor immature folks to our own devices, it seems everyone was doing just fine without your input to begin with.

LOL...you two are pretty amusing. You must really have rust buckets being so defensive and all, that wasnt a direct comment but more of a cliche that i observe going to shows and even on the streets..... chrome are you really 41? :hmm:

:brutal: :brutal: :brutal:

who the hell wants to see a car that looks like it just rolled out of the factory? BORING...

Well it took me my whole life... but i found a few.

:brutal: :brutal: :brutal:

When you get a chance look at all the classic cars on ebay and tell me the ones that go for the most, modified or showroom? And then you may say "well uhh that doesnt count your retarded ill never sell my car so price doesnt matter blah blah blah..." Hmm ok well my boring ass stock cadillac...really boring... has more value than most of the paritally modified cars out there... please note i said partially, that does not include full out crazy cool modification like this buick project. Chrome im just trying to prove to you that im right... authenticity quite frequently wins the day.

You heard it from me... the 18 yr old fool... im done posting on this topic :-)

So what happened to the "Fuel Injected 500" thread?

Come on guys. Everyone has different opinions. Everyone likes their car a different way, thinks different things about it, yadda yadda yadda. JTraik wants a mint Caddy to win mint Caddy shows. Others such as myself want a custom Caddy to have fun with and please themselves with and feed their hobby. Nothing wrong with either of the two.

Thank you your the only person to reply to me with any sense and understanding.

Well this is a long ways off from what I started this thread. :cookoo: I think that all but kitchen sink has been thrown in here. I appreciate all the vital information that was submited and I think I have the information that I was looking for.

Thank you

Drew

Check out my Project
www.1953buick.com (http://www.1953buick.com)

One of the top most boring cars on ebay, thought you guys would be interested...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4580832041&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AFSEL%3AUS%3A1

lol...

Nice save there man.

As implied before, I'm neutral. I love a beautiful old mint condition Caddy just as I do an awkward hotrodded one.

Look, there are factory built winners, and losers; a bone stock, perfect numbers matching 1969 SS Camaro? Yeah, that's NOT a car to alter obviously. HOWEVER, the restoration did include polygraphite bushings - so was the restoration a waste since he didn't use poopy stock rubber? They sure didn’t have Energy Suspension transmission mounts in 1969.



Topic Related: Which motors did the stock multi-port manifolds come on?

All of them I think. I know the 425 and 500 for sure though.

All of them I think. I know the 425 and 500 for sure though.

Which "them"? EFI wasn't an option until 1975 on the Eldo 500, and the 1977 up 425 motors still had carbs as base equipement. I just wanted to know when and where the multi-port manifold came about.

They came on the cars people ordered with FI. ... what exactly are you asking?

Look, there are factory built winners, and losers; a bone stock, perfect numbers matching 1969 SS Camaro? Yeah, that's NOT a car to alter obviously. HOWEVER, the restoration did include polygraphite bushings - so was the restoration a waste since he didn't use poopy stock rubber? They sure didn’t have Energy Suspension transmission mounts in 1969.



Topic Related: Which motors did the stock multi-port manifolds come on?

Your absolutley right about the bushings, i noticed as well as the colored calipers and brake lines. The rough coat on some of the suspension pieces seemed to be a little out of th ordinary too. Nonetheless that is a beautiful factory spec restoration and he is being handsomely rewarded for his work.

I don't know what years. I simply know for a fact because I have seen pictures of one from a 425 from Ape Man and everyone knows about the EFI 500's

Well my injected engine is being disassembled and I was wondering what cc my heads would be for a 472 out of 74 Deville. I would like to have the 120cc, because I have been asked if I considered putting turbos on it with about 5-8 psi of boost. I would like to have as much volume as possilbe and if I want to do this I need to know what the swapability is. :cookoo:

I know it has been covered in the forum... And when I searched I could seem to find.:banghead:

I look forward to the comments on this and why I should or shouldn't.

Drew

PS... FOUND INFO
The "5200" block was used for both the 472 and 500.

Check out the link below. That should tell you what you need to know.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/9364/guide/Engineid.html

I'm up in the air if I should try to find a stock FI setup for my 425 or contract out the Megasquirt. I don't have the knowledge to get it going on my own. Anyone out there looking to make some cash?

I've posted about my EFI before. I'm using a late block, early heads with 2.19-1.84 valves and some pocket porting, Edelbrock performer with holley injector bungs welded in the ports with 39 lb. injectors, aftermarket ford truck throttle body (twin 65MM) mild comp cam camshaft. I use a Megasquirt V2. controller. Works great. This is in a 53 Stude, weighs 3300 lbs. Runs 11.80s shifting at 45-4600. Could be a lot faster if I spun it tighter, just trying to see how long the stock bottom end will take the 12.5/1 compression ratio. Lots of fun.

Hey guys...tec question here about the '76 500 FI. Got a bad coolant temp sensor...no resistance at all. Can't find a good replacement with that gm pigtail and all. Wondering about using a later model unit with same threads, probe length, same resistance and splicing in the 2 wire connection. Found some specs noting the unit should ohm out at about 1000 to 1100 at 80 deg or so. Is this feasible or are the limits on the oem sensors too critical? Gotta do something...gotta bad rough idle that I can't narrow down. Thanks...Mike

I know that this thread is fairly old, but there seems to be some good info here andit applies to what I am thinking.

In my case I have the Caddy 500ci mounted in my 1949 F1 Ford truck. Woohooo!! its a lot of fun. I have been toying with the idea fuel injection. I was able to score a complete original fuel injected intake manifold, fuel rails, throttle body, regulator, etc from a local wrecking yard (I got the whole set up for about $65).

I worked on these systems at the local Caddy dealership back in the 80's. From what I remember the electronics were fairly primitive and danged expensive. My thoughts are to tray and adapt lote model electronics to the hard parts. I was thinking maybe the ecm from the late 80's early 90's port injected Camaros or something like that.
If I remember right the Caddy system just fires the injectors in 2 groups of 4 anyway and not as a true sequential system. I think that as long as the injector drivers in the ecm were compatible with the early injectors it might not be too bad.

Any thoughts? How about you guys that have gone with the megasquirt controllers, any feedback??

Thanks for any info
Bobby

The stock injectors are low ohm... so if you want to run it with a newer ECM, made for high ohm, you will need a add on driver box for the low ohm's....you could make a Megasquirt system or get a aftermarket system... If you want to control the timing, get a 1981 368 F/I distrubtor... you could go the eazy way and get a older used computer that only controls the fuel... like a haltech off ebay....

Thanks for the reply. I sent you a PM as well.

Do you know if the old original injector bungs are the same size as late model injectors? If so then it might be easier to replace the injectors with the later high ohm style.

I don't know anything about haltech, I'll do some looking into it. I've seen the megasquirt stuff and it looks impressive. Right now I'm just having a hard time forking out $1000, heck, right now I don't think I have that much in my whole truck project....lol

Could the ignition module for the 368 be installed in the 472/500 HEI dizzy?

Thanks again
Bobby