: PCM/ECU tune... Custom tune (i.e. StealthV), Dyno Tuning...more questions inside



kimcheejeegae
09-13-05, 12:48 PM
Ok... so I've heard good things about StealthV's tune and I've also read good things about the superchips and predator tunes...

Coming from the Audiworld where most every car responds to a certain tune differently, we can't assume that settings for one car will work on another car even if all the hardware is the same... (hardware being ECU, turbos, engine mods... etc etc). I know this applies less to nonboosted cars. My A6 4.2 has custom tuning... my friend with the same year 4.2 and the same mods also has a custom tune, but my car could take much more of an aggressive tune than my friends. Even after swapping out his plugs and coilpacks. And a lot of this required logging to watch for o2 voltages, timing corrections, and so forth.

So without logging and sitting on a dyno, how will I know that I'm getting the most out of my tune by just shipping off my ECU to StealthV as opposed to sitting on a dyno with EFILive with my own car?

Florian
09-13-05, 12:53 PM
I was skeptical as well, but knowing that Rick is an ex-GM engineer (correct?) and had many beta users out there, I but my faith in the StealthV tune. No regrets. His 4 page worksheet asks the relevant question for the hardware you have, he will tune accordingly.

Still grinnin 2 months later!!!!

F

Drift-caddy
09-13-05, 01:07 PM
mmmm have been holding back on this for a long time know, But i really do not like box tunes. I would feel so much better been able to log my runs and watch knock,a/f and everything else on my car. We do our tunes on the dyno and track. thats just my .02 here. ok back to real world now.

Florian
09-13-05, 01:10 PM
kimchee,

I noticed your "bling o meter" is on empty...shouldnt it be in the red? (or is that the point...?)


F

kimcheejeegae
09-13-05, 01:13 PM
kimchee,

I noticed your "bling o meter" is on empty...shouldnt it be in the red? (or is that the point...?)


F


I think it's the other way around. =)

the red is the empty.. the needle is to the right and maxed out. =))

hey.. i'm asian... and i drive a cadillac... therefore.. i must be BLASIAN!! =)) bhahaahahaha.

PneuBird
09-13-05, 01:26 PM
"Rule #1"...Bling is not allowed on a "V" :duck:

Florian
09-13-05, 01:46 PM
gotcha, I guess Im used to VU meters being in the red when theres too much sound. Glad to see you are master of the bling....

Blingmaster Kimchee!

F

kimcheejeegae
09-13-05, 01:46 PM
"Rule #1"...Bling is not allowed on a "V" :duck:


LOL..... :shhh:

StealthV
09-13-05, 01:47 PM
Repeatability between CTS-Vs with similar mods is very good. The first set of numbers are the long term fuel trims (LTFT) captured in May 2005 from a 2004 CTS-V w/ Maggie owned by "ronr" on the forum who lives in Michigan. Ron was one of the early Maggie StealthV calibration testers and unfortunately, I don't have Ron's latest LTFTs handy from his current calibration since today they match more closely to the second set below.

Cell# MAP/RPM boundaries Bank-1 Bank-2
0 MAP 0.00..29.5 inHg/RPM 0..20 -0.54% -1.51%
1 MAP 0.00..29.5 inHg/RPM 20..12 -0.54% -1.51%
2 MAP 0.00..29.5 inHg/RPM 1275 -0.54% -1.51%
3 MAP 0.00..29.5 inHg/RPM 75+ -0.54% -1.51%
4 MAP 29.5..50.2 inHg/RPM 0..20 -0.54% -1.51%
5 MAP 29.5..50.2 inHg/RPM 20..12 -0.54% -1.51%
6 MAP 29.5..50.2 inHg/RPM 1275 -0.54% -1.51%
7 MAP 29.5..50.2 inHg/RPM 75+ -0.54% -1.51%
8 MAP 50.2..70.9 inHg/RPM 0..20 6.84% 1.95%
9 MAP 50.2..70.9 inHg/RPM 20..12 -0.54% -1.51%
10 MAP 50.2..70.9 inHg/RPM 1275 0.44% -1.51%
11 MAP 50.2..70.9 inHg/RPM 75+ -0.54% -1.51%
12 MAP 70.9+ inHg/RPM 0..20 5.32% -1.51%
13 MAP 70.9+ inHg/RPM 20..12 3.37% 0.44%
14 MAP 70.9+ inHg/RPM 1275 2.39% -1.51%
15 MAP 70.9+ inHg/RPM 75+ 1.42% -1.51%
16 P/N: A/C On 3.86% 0.93%
17 P/N: A/C Off 3.86% 0.93%
18 In gear: A/C On 1.90% -2.00%
19 In gear: A/C Off 1.90% -2.00%
20 Cold idle -1.03% -2.00%
21 Deceleration -4.59% -4.59%
22 WOT -0.54% -1.51%

This second set of fuel trims are from last week in a 2005 CTS-V with Maggie owned by "Dennisscars" from California on the forum.

Cell# MAP/RPM boundaries Bank-1 Bank-2
0 MAP 0.00..10.9 inHg/RPM 0..900 -1.51% -1.51%
1 MAP 0.00..10.9 inHg/RPM 900..1400 -1.51% -1.51%
2 MAP 0.00..10.9 inHg/RPM 1400..2200 -1.51% -1.51%
3 MAP 0.00..10.9 inHg/RPM 2200+ 0.98% -1.51%
4 MAP 10.9..16.8 inHg/RPM 0..900 -1.51% -1.51%
5 MAP 10.9..16.8 inHg/RPM 900..1400 -1.51% -1.51%
6 MAP 10.9..16.8 inHg/RPM 1400..2200 -1.51% -1.51%
7 MAP 10.9..16.8 inHg/RPM 2200+ 0.00% 0.00%
8 MAP 16.8..22.7 inHg/RPM 0..900 -1.51% -1.51%
9 MAP 16.8..22.7 inHg/RPM 900..1400 -1.51% -1.51%
10 MAP 16.8..22.7 inHg/RPM 1400..2200 0.00% 0.00%
11 MAP 16.8..22.7 inHg/RPM 2200+ 0.00% 0.00%
12 MAP 22.7+ inHg/RPM 0..900 0.00% 0.00%
13 MAP 22.7+ inHg/RPM 900..1400 0.00% 0.00%
14 MAP 22.7+ inHg/RPM 1400..2200 0.00% 0.00%
15 MAP 22.7+ inHg/RPM 2200+ 0.00% 0.00%
16 P/N: A/C On 0.00% 0.00%
17 P/N: A/C Off 0.00% 0.00%
18 In gear: A/C On -2.00% -2.00%
19 In gear: A/C Off -2.00% -2.00%
20 Cold idle -2.00% -2.00%
21 Deceleration -4.59% -4.59%
22 WOT -1.51% -1.51%

Fuel trims that close across the board and repeatable from V to V occur because of the consistency of modern manufacturing technology and the complete ground up recalibration of the PCM.

A traditional dyno tune, whether done by a pro or by oneself are WOT only tweaks and are not a true recalibration. In a StealthV calibration, the values commanded by the PCM are what is produced - if the desired WOT air:fuel ratio is commanded to be 12.5:1 then that is what is what the engine delivers. Comparitively, in traditional dyno tuning, the WOT tables are tweaked until the 12.5:1 air:fuel ratio is produced which means the PCM may actually be set to something like 14:1 which was seen recently in a dyno shop's supercharged tune. Short cutting the system to get desired WOT performance is cheesy in my professional opinion and provides zero part-throttle improvements which is where the majority of most engine run time is spent.

As far as max performance out of the box, that is extremely easy as it's all about thermal and cylinder pressure management. Take any traditional bolt-on V and have it dyno tuned. Then send the PCM in for complete wipe and reload with a StealthV calibration and I'll provide a money-back guarantee you won't believe it is the same car.

No, I'm not a former GM engineer but do have connections into GM that provide assistance from time to time.

Luna.
09-13-05, 01:53 PM
"Rule #1"...Bling is not allowed on a "V" :duck:

Agree.

Bling and V don't really go together. :)

Florian
09-13-05, 01:54 PM
No, I'm not a former GM engineer but do have connections into GM that provide assistance from time to time.

But you might play one on TV.


F

kimcheejeegae
09-13-05, 02:14 PM
Repeatability between CTS-Vs with similar mods is very good. The first set of numbers are the long term fuel trims (LTFT) captured in May 2005 from a 2004 CTS-V w/ Maggie owned by "ronr" on the forum who lives in Michigan. Ron was one of the early Maggie StealthV calibration testers and unfortunately, I don't have Ron's latest LTFTs handy from his current calibration since today they match more closely to the second set below.

Cell# MAP/RPM boundaries Bank-1 Bank-2
0 MAP 0.00..29.5 inHg/RPM 0..20 -0.54% -1.51%
1 MAP 0.00..29.5 inHg/RPM 20..12 -0.54% -1.51%
2 MAP 0.00..29.5 inHg/RPM 1275 -0.54% -1.51%
3 MAP 0.00..29.5 inHg/RPM 75+ -0.54% -1.51%
4 MAP 29.5..50.2 inHg/RPM 0..20 -0.54% -1.51%
5 MAP 29.5..50.2 inHg/RPM 20..12 -0.54% -1.51%
6 MAP 29.5..50.2 inHg/RPM 1275 -0.54% -1.51%
7 MAP 29.5..50.2 inHg/RPM 75+ -0.54% -1.51%
8 MAP 50.2..70.9 inHg/RPM 0..20 6.84% 1.95%
9 MAP 50.2..70.9 inHg/RPM 20..12 -0.54% -1.51%
10 MAP 50.2..70.9 inHg/RPM 1275 0.44% -1.51%
11 MAP 50.2..70.9 inHg/RPM 75+ -0.54% -1.51%
12 MAP 70.9+ inHg/RPM 0..20 5.32% -1.51%
13 MAP 70.9+ inHg/RPM 20..12 3.37% 0.44%
14 MAP 70.9+ inHg/RPM 1275 2.39% -1.51%
15 MAP 70.9+ inHg/RPM 75+ 1.42% -1.51%
16 P/N: A/C On 3.86% 0.93%
17 P/N: A/C Off 3.86% 0.93%
18 In gear: A/C On 1.90% -2.00%
19 In gear: A/C Off 1.90% -2.00%
20 Cold idle -1.03% -2.00%
21 Deceleration -4.59% -4.59%
22 WOT -0.54% -1.51%

This second set of fuel trims are from last week in a 2005 CTS-V with Maggie owned by "Dennisscars" from California on the forum.

Cell# MAP/RPM boundaries Bank-1 Bank-2
0 MAP 0.00..10.9 inHg/RPM 0..900 -1.51% -1.51%
1 MAP 0.00..10.9 inHg/RPM 900..1400 -1.51% -1.51%
2 MAP 0.00..10.9 inHg/RPM 1400..2200 -1.51% -1.51%
3 MAP 0.00..10.9 inHg/RPM 2200+ 0.98% -1.51%
4 MAP 10.9..16.8 inHg/RPM 0..900 -1.51% -1.51%
5 MAP 10.9..16.8 inHg/RPM 900..1400 -1.51% -1.51%
6 MAP 10.9..16.8 inHg/RPM 1400..2200 -1.51% -1.51%
7 MAP 10.9..16.8 inHg/RPM 2200+ 0.00% 0.00%
8 MAP 16.8..22.7 inHg/RPM 0..900 -1.51% -1.51%
9 MAP 16.8..22.7 inHg/RPM 900..1400 -1.51% -1.51%
10 MAP 16.8..22.7 inHg/RPM 1400..2200 0.00% 0.00%
11 MAP 16.8..22.7 inHg/RPM 2200+ 0.00% 0.00%
12 MAP 22.7+ inHg/RPM 0..900 0.00% 0.00%
13 MAP 22.7+ inHg/RPM 900..1400 0.00% 0.00%
14 MAP 22.7+ inHg/RPM 1400..2200 0.00% 0.00%
15 MAP 22.7+ inHg/RPM 2200+ 0.00% 0.00%
16 P/N: A/C On 0.00% 0.00%
17 P/N: A/C Off 0.00% 0.00%
18 In gear: A/C On -2.00% -2.00%
19 In gear: A/C Off -2.00% -2.00%
20 Cold idle -2.00% -2.00%
21 Deceleration -4.59% -4.59%
22 WOT -1.51% -1.51%

Fuel trims that close across the board and repeatable from V to V occur because of the consistency of modern manufacturing technology and the complete ground up recalibration of the PCM.

A traditional dyno tune, whether done by a pro or by oneself are WOT only tweaks and are not a true recalibration. In a StealthV calibration, the values commanded by the PCM are what is produced - if the desired WOT air:fuel ratio is commanded to be 12.5:1 then that is what is what the engine delivers. Comparitively, in traditional dyno tuning, the WOT tables are tweaked until the 12.5:1 air:fuel ratio is produced which means the PCM may actually be set to something like 14:1 which was seen recently in a dyno shop's supercharged tune. Short cutting the system to get desired WOT performance is cheesy in my professional opinion and provides zero part-throttle improvements which is where the majority of most engine run time is spent.

As far as max performance out of the box, that is extremely easy as it's all about thermal and cylinder pressure management. Take any traditional bolt-on V and have it dyno tuned. Then send the PCM in for complete wipe and reload with a StealthV calibration and I'll provide a money-back guarantee you won't believe it is the same car.

No, I'm not a former GM engineer but do have connections into GM that provide assistance from time to time.




Wow... very cool. I just got your email.... I'm giddy as a little boy.. I'll reply as soon as I make up my mind!! =))

urbanski
09-13-05, 02:49 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49303

kimcheejeegae
09-13-05, 03:01 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49303


Damn that is a very nice increase in power with a tune. I'm gonna go with the StealthV tune...

Luna.
09-13-05, 03:01 PM
Urb--would you share, if you don't mind, the choices you made on the StealthV tune worksheet?

For instance, you probably picked turning off torque management, increased throttle response, etc.

Thanks

urbanski
09-13-05, 03:35 PM
Urb--would you share, if you don't mind, the choices you made on the StealthV tune worksheet?

For instance, you probably picked turning off torque management, increased throttle response, etc.

Thanks
heck yeah!!! load it up... :D
TM off, cat protection off
I'm not too sure what abuse management is...but I have the rev limiters kick in at various RPMs depending on the engine temp...keeps you from redlining her when the water temp is 32F LOL....lightened flywheel, let her rev!!
shift light, valet mode...
I'm one of his beta testers so I never actually did the worksheet, I just know I have one "with the works" :p

Luna.
09-13-05, 03:48 PM
Thanks.

I forgot to ask in an earlier post (& maybe Stealth can answer this one), but what is the point of asking what, "Brand of gasoline is used?"

urbanski
09-13-05, 04:07 PM
probably ethanol and other additives and octane available..
i have good stuff down here, so my tune is a bit different than additive users

Mat347
09-13-05, 04:21 PM
Thanks.

I forgot to ask in an earlier post (& maybe Stealth can answer this one), but what is the point of asking what, "Brand of gasoline is used?"
I felt a very noticeable difference when I switched from Exxon/mobile 93 to Shell 93, mainly part throttle. The car felt like it had more torque. Also, some companies are certified by some 3d party company(dont remember the site) for quality and consistency, Exxon wasn't, Shell is. So there is a difference in fuels.

ctsvett
09-13-05, 05:05 PM
GM made an announcement recently about top teir gas... I will dig up the TSB (yes, there was a TSB on the issue)

Reed

kimcheejeegae
09-13-05, 05:25 PM
GM made an announcement recently about top teir gas... I will dig up the TSB (yes, there was a TSB on the issue)

Reed


Here is the website:

Top Tier Gas (http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html)

I only use 92 octane Shell or Chevron... there are only a handful of gas stations in the Seattle area that sell higher than 92 octane....

ctsvett
09-13-05, 05:58 PM
I posted the GM TSB on top teir gas:

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/tsb/

Its under latest updated (under TSB)

Reed

DILLIGAF
09-13-05, 07:08 PM
My 02,All these tunes are good.However,Stealths tune is the most economical for what you get.I recently dynoed with another forum member who had maybe a 1000 dollars more mods 1.5lbs more boost and a dyno tune from a very reputable speed shop=difference,he had 30 more horse.I'm going to a smaller pully and I bet I'm close to him.For me to do what he had done would cost me around 1,500 bucks,this includes shop time,dyno pulls,tune,a few odds an ends,some needed some not needed.Stealth's tune is perfect for 90% of us IMO

CaddyGeek
09-13-05, 08:32 PM
rp, have you driven the other member's car? Any seat of the pants difference? Did you feel that your car was as drivable / more drivable in day to day traffic?

DILLIGAF
09-13-05, 08:57 PM
I didn't drive his car,I do know that we run same temps even though he had 160 thermo.He had no fan strategy tweaks or ac compressor tweaks on his tune.Our cars had exactly the same torque.My observation is his car ran better over 5,500 rpms.But if he was driving my car he would of handed me my ass in my car.They were close I thougt.And yes I've heard there is a seat of pants diff with the higher boost