: 2000 series Northstar water pump will not come out
05-12-14, 05:58 PM
Hello, has anybody ever come across a water pump that will refuse to move? I tried two different water pump sockets on this thing and it will not budge at all..I replaced this pump myself back in 09...didnt have this problem then..am I missing something here? Is there only one right way to put this socket on? I believe not, but what gives here? I even cut away part of the impeller so I can see better where to put this tool...any suggestions?
05-12-14, 09:07 PM
Impact wrench and make sure you are turning clockwise to loosen...
I had to use a large breaker bar on two people to get one off.
05-12-14, 09:11 PM
Hello, thanks for your reply. Yes I am going clockwise but the socket keeps slipping off the water pump..I have two sockets and both of them are slipping off..I have the breaker bar but its useless because the stupid sockets are slipping..I will get a cordless impact gun and try that
Yeah, a few short bursts from an impact will usually get the job done much quicker than increasing torque.
05-12-14, 09:27 PM
Thanks Ranger for those encouraging words..I hope so..I cursed enough to last the rest of the year today...:want:
05-14-14, 06:27 PM
Well I tried an impact gun on both water pump sockets..this thing will not move at all..Went to talk to mechanic and he said that there is some form of updated socket that grabs the pumps better..I am searching around on the web and I dont see such a socket...I am getting discouraged with this thing..
05-14-14, 07:23 PM
Nothing "upgraded", but there us the socket with the piece that bolts to the crossover and keeps the tool from coming off of the pump.
05-15-14, 08:35 AM
You can find several ads for that strap only - the original GM/Kent Moore one - on Amazon. I found one for $25, shipped. It's a bigger chunk of metal than you would think.
Amazon or eBay search - cadillac northstar engine water pump strap or something close - you'll find it eventually. Try kent moore water pump strap.
05-16-14, 06:54 PM
Thanks Sub, I will check that out right now..I have one other question related to this repair that maybe you can help me with..The "snowman" gasket for the water pump housing, I still have the old style housing with the little extra notch in it for the gasket to sit in but the auto parts store sold me the new style gasket without the little extra tab to sit into the notch..do you think it will leak or do I just worry too much?..Thanks for your help
05-16-14, 07:16 PM
They're not intended to be interchangeable. Maybe, maybe not. Just buy the correct one to avoid having to do it over.
05-16-14, 07:27 PM
It's a crap shoot - I have used both types (old and new designs, 3 different N* cars) - with cleaning and care, neither has leaked after w/p replacement. I did not use any goop. (Mine is still the original - no leaks yet.)
I'm betting it won't leak.
05-17-14, 03:01 AM
I used the newer style gasket on the older style housing just because the new gasket came with the gasket kit. It didn't leak and it doesn't leak.
05-17-14, 04:36 PM
Well I used the Kent moore tool and this thing will not budge..Now the tangs in the housing are getting marred from all the attempts to loosen this thing..Looks now like I will need to get another coolant cross over housing..My mechanic tried everything today from air hammers, air chisels, impact gun..this thing somehow became like welded in..So I will hunt around for another housing..Is AC Delco the brand I should use for the cross over gaskets, or do more people have better luck with fel pro? Any goop needed on the gaskets to seal or just put them in the way they are? I may have to use something to keep the gaskets from moving out of place during installation I am assuming...from what can see keeping those gaskets in place during install looks like a real pita.. really not what I had planned for..But what can I do..besides weep.. Lol
One last ditch effort I can think of is maybe, just maybe, spraying the WP down with CLR may break down any calcium deposits or whatever it is that have that thing locked in there. The after is sets and gets resprayed several times hit it again with an impact. If that fails, it may be time for an exorcist.
05-17-14, 05:42 PM
Yes I think its already exorcist time..Would you have any idea how many hours this job takes on average? I wonder how much the dealer gets for this job..
It can probably be done in less than an hour, but I have no idea what the book time is. Sub has a subscription to Alldata so he can probably look it up.
05-17-14, 10:17 PM
Wow an hour to do the cross over? That would be great. I dont think ill be able to do it in such short time though..From what I can see on mine it looks the bottom boltw in the front will be more of a pain the bottom back bolts due to big farlt wiring harness directly in front of bolt..
Ranger I just realized that when I asked how long to do the job that you thought I was speaking about the water pump..I was talkin about the cross over gaskets..I started thinking to myself wait no human can do that in an hour..Lol
05-17-14, 11:18 PM
An hour? Lol. Good luck with that...
For $50, I'll do it in 20 minutes.
...Just take the engine out before I get there.
Oh, sorry. Yeah I thought you meant the WP. The crossover is a long job. Mine was done under warranty and it was not a costumer wait job. They had the car all day.
05-19-14, 09:49 AM
Water pump alone is 2 hours, water pump housing (the "water crossover" manifold) is 4.5 (Good luck with that !).
OLD dealer price on the water pump housing is $478.
Total price depends on parts cost and shop labor rates. Most Cadillac dealers now charge $90 to $130 an hour for labor.
05-20-14, 05:26 AM
Yeah I am undecided about who to take it to to do this job..I guess the mechanic i like the least..Lol..When looking for another water cross over manifold I guess I just look for one that looks like my style I suppose? Do you guys know what years seville and or eldorado would have the same style? Thanks for all your time..
05-20-14, 08:44 AM
Hi Charlie- use the AC-Delco crossover gaskets. You will need two of each upper and lower (P/N 12562046 and 12583048). These gaskets are updated and will hold the bolts in place for you.
We use an impact with soft blows to remove the pump, if they are tight.
If you need a crossover we do sell them for $75+shipping (used, cleaned up). I have a new pump here I can also pre-install and send on the way with it. Would have to charge extra for the pump included
Sorry to hear of your troubles.
I should note that all 2000+ cars have this same crossover until they switched to the electonic throttle body in 2006. So 2000-2005 should fit. 06+ don't need the water pump removal tool anymore, but you also have to remove the crossover to change the pump on those. I prefer the cartridge style pump. It's a nice setup when they're not seized in the housing.
05-20-14, 08:47 AM
Any 2000 - 2003 Deville/Seville Northstar water crossover should fit......... BUT there was a gasket style change in there somewhere, and I don't know if that required a block/head/flange machining change.
Look at the 3 model year water pumps, crossover gaskets and a few other parts - use either Rock Auto or www.gmpartsgiant (http://www.gmpartsgiant) for comparisons.
EDIT: Go with Jake at Northstar Performance - not to worry. Use his website in his login banner in the adjacent post.
05-24-14, 04:36 AM
Hello everyone, and thank you all for your help and suggestions.. Jake I have the 12583048 gaskets but the other number I have is 12583049..Hopefully not too big a deal..Now should I use any anti seize on the cross over bolts? Oh and Jake before I forget, I have been trying to reach you for awhile, my sister wants to buy an STS and I told her you had some already studded up and ready to go..So please let me know how is the best way to get in touch with you about that..Thanks for all you guys help..Be well any have a Happy Memorial Day!
05-24-14, 06:37 AM
Anyone try a little heat? Small home propane/mapp gas torch small enough and adjustable enough to heat the crossover/pump without doing damage by overheating/melting anything with a good new water pump socket extension and 1/2" drive long ratchet orwnap on 4-5 ' breaker bar.this method never failed me. Just go slow and easy on the heat, no rush.Use as little heat as necessary to free up the corrosion/sealer/etc. If your meticulous and carefully it will come right out.
I use a Kent More W/P socket 1'' - 1/2" drive extension with a 2 1/2' Mac tools flex head 1/2" drive sure grip ratchet with a formed handle. If that fails out comes the 5' SnapOn flex head 1/2" drive breaker bar, both of course after through, careful heating.
This should do it. In 8 years in a Caddy/Pontiac/GMC dealer this never failed me.
Mapp gas burns hotter than blue bottle propane like plumbers use in homes. You can buy a bottle full of propane which I reccomend for first timers with a reusable torch - starter head and regulatable nozzle that is easy to use at any angle even upside down.
Use a large mirror to watch the heating process and keep a digital pyrometer close by to monitor your heat on the pump and crossover assembly. Use the minimum heat necessary to do the job without damaging the coolant crossover.
Good luck. You will be fine , just go slow. This happens to me when working on marine applications with dissimilar metals all the time and heat works 90% of the time when done properly.
02-06-15, 04:05 PM
I have same problem worked on it for hours impact wrench no good penetrating solvent no help and tried heat no good can we keep this going if someone has another idea thanks to all
forgot to mention my car is 2002 deville
02-06-15, 04:38 PM
Are you turning the correct way to remove? Clockwise?
The make a holddown for the socket to keep it in position also. I used a helper to push socket in and a 3 ft cheater bar the first time and it was a sob even then. Absolute worse case senario you will have to remove crossover and work on bench to get it out.
02-06-15, 04:45 PM
It's all covered in this thread. There is no new CW since the date of Post #27.
If an impact won't break it loose, you have problems. All I can think of is to keep hammering away.
If you use a cheater bar, be sure you have a hold down so the socket doesn't slip. If you start breaking or rounding off the teeth, you will have even bigger problems.
Be sure to use some silicone grease (plain old dielectric grease) on the pump tabs and gaskets upon reinstallation. It should help to mitigate this type of trouble in the future.
02-15-15, 02:15 AM
i watched a guy take a smaller socket pound it over the nut of course you can kiss the socket good bye after that.
02-15-15, 08:59 AM
??? There is no "nut" involved in removing a Northstar water pump capsule.
Here's the socket they're talking about ................. and that sucker is 4" in diameter and weighs 2 pounds.