: Well, Ya Gotta Love Cadillac......



CTSV05
09-09-05, 10:16 PM
Man the customer service one recieves when you shell out over 47K dollars is impressive!

Now, I've been waiting, after relinquishing and paying for MY half of the diff, and the labor to install it, just to keep the warranty intact?, for over a week for the part!!!!!!

So much for them being in stock and needing to be used up.

Im must say, between the absolute faceslapping I took, and now this, I can sure see where Cadillac feels it will be a world contenda!

I am seriously considering eating the neg. equity and getting rid of the V, this whole thing has totally left a nasty taste in my mouth, both from GM, Cadillac and the dealer personel.

I have been lied to, threatened, and totally treated like a piece of shit, I just don't see how a company who claims to want to compete with other high end marques, can have this mentality.

lasstss
09-09-05, 10:44 PM
You know why its taking a week, they have replaced so many diffs that they ran out! Its probably being built as we speak.:eek:

ace996
09-09-05, 10:51 PM
Doug,
I feel for you, and have the same love/hate feelings. I know the V can be a GREAT car but its just not there yet, company involvement included. There is a BMW autox tomorrow that I'm sitting out due to fear that the car can't take parking-lot maneuvers. I'm holding my breath that the new diff holds until the STS-V unit is available, then I wonder what is gonna break.
It really is a heavy weight on my heart that the V(and company) has not lived up to its image....I'm scared to DRIVE it like its marketed, the reason I bought it...
Deep breaths...count to ten....deep breaths....

Dennisscars
09-09-05, 10:56 PM
I'm sitting out due to fear that the car can't take parking-lot maneuvers.


Drive it, break it, sell it.

It's a car, not a kidney.....

I don't want to be the grandpa on the porch.. I almost got to drive my V...

ace996
09-09-05, 11:13 PM
I hear you brother...I really do. But after my DSM threatened to pull my warrantee due to "accelerated" tire wear and a new diff/halfshaft, I'm a little gun shy. Besides, if I blow this new diff before the STS-V unit, they'll install another time-bomb between my rear tires...if I'm not blamed for the failure.

And sell it?? Its three months old, I'd rather take a plasma cutter to it and flush it down the toilet piece by piece.....
Hey, what do you think the RotoRouter guy would charge to clean a Cadillac out of my sewer pipe????....probably less than the hit I'd take if I sold it.

Dennisscars
09-09-05, 11:32 PM
I'm right beside you man and my tune may change when mine goes tomorrow. But I've seen Mack truck rear ends blow meaning what man can put together, man can tear apart. It ain't cheap to play this game.

Don't park it in the living room just yet, if the rear blows cover it up in the garage and wait for the new rear. How much is a new rear anyway? The price of a set of runcraps? I sit here all too often and I see people spend bucwho bucks of dubs and tires and brag about how much the spend on looks. More power to 'em, that's not me. I'm setting aside $x/month for a new rear so when it does I can change it myself if denied. Can I encript this part so GM doesn't see?

My sad story..
I was sitting in the garage one Saturday afternoon drinking a beer and admiring my '65 Corvette and it came to me why I wasn't driving it and who I was saving it for. Either my kids were going to enjoy the hell out of it or their new step dad would. Moral of the story is.. I drive the '65 every day to work now.

Would I prefer it not blow, of course. Am I going to cover it up, never. Go drive it on the track, fully engage the clutch and then stand on it. Drifter guy is having a ball..


Climbing off soap box...Sorry CTSV05 I feel your pain man..

keeksv
09-09-05, 11:37 PM
:yeah:

CVP33
09-09-05, 11:38 PM
I'm right there with you. Mine will be out until Thursday of next week making this visit 18 days total. Add that to my previous repairs and my V has been in the shop 25 days in less than 10 months. I believe I've made up my mind.

Dennisscars
09-09-05, 11:42 PM
Do I think this is a drag car? No. There are others much better suited.
Does this car like short hard stopping twisties circle track, not really.
Somebody here said it best, the faster the track, the faster the V.

Only one man's unsolicited opinion.

Dennisscars
09-09-05, 11:47 PM
A good dealer makes or breaks this car... are you listening GM?

CTSV05 sorry to jack your thread, back to the garage and my warming beer.

GAGS-V
09-10-05, 12:56 AM
CTSV05, is there not another dealer close by? If not please go the the general manager of your dealer (make an appointment if needed) write down what has happened to you and what you would like to have done. I too was very disapointed by my first trip to the dealer service. After talking to the general manager it is like night and day. I am treated first class and I can relax and drive this car how I like to drive it. If there is any issue now I know who I can count on. What a great car! Have some fun with it! Get another dealer or get the upper management involved. Let us know how it all turns out. I don't think you should be paying for anything other than normal service items or if you did abuse the car (like crashing it). Good luck, hang in there and don't give up!

CTSV05
09-10-05, 03:23 AM
Thanx for listening guys.

CVP, its a damn shame isn't it?

Ace, I never thought the pure pleasure of owning this car could be so tainted.....shows you what I know.

As far as the dealer goes, I live in rural America, next closest dealer is 40 mins, and I'm not sure if they have even sold a V.

Believe me, the owners of the dealership are very involved, and are the ones who made the decision to pay for half the part.

The service manager, has been talked to, the initiator of the troubles, but unfortunately, Cadillac had already been involved and took a very hard nosed stance concerning my kit.

My biggest gripe is that I developed a product to corrrect a production issue (The Hop), and with no more than the service mangers word, my warranty was denied, I think Cadillac could have at least had someone with a little engineering background LOOK at the car before becoming so obstinent.

Funny, they are all driving new cars, but ours is sitting in our garage in pieces, and then I call and its like I'm being unreasonable expecting the part to be in when I was told it would be there!

GNSCOTT
09-10-05, 09:59 AM
You mean you did not take the cradle off before you brought it in for a new rear? If that is the case I can really see why they might claim abuse on the rear. A good dealer would have look past it or told you to remove it before the Rep came to look at it.

If my rear goes now, i am going to park the car until the new replacement rear is ready.

dannystang
09-10-05, 11:04 AM
Man the customer service one recieves when you shell out over 47K dollars is impressive!

Now, I've been waiting, after relinquishing and paying for MY half of the diff, and the labor to install it, just to keep the warranty intact?, for over a week for the part!!!!!!

So much for them being in stock and needing to be used up.

Im must say, between the absolute faceslapping I took, and now this, I can sure see where Cadillac feels it will be a world contenda!

I am seriously considering eating the neg. equity and getting rid of the V, this whole thing has totally left a nasty taste in my mouth, both from GM, Cadillac and the dealer personel.

I have been lied to, threatened, and totally treated like a piece of shit, I just don't see how a company who claims to want to compete with other high end marques, can have this mentality.

Hey Doug..

Chesrown screwed you?!?!?

ahahnu
09-10-05, 11:32 AM
I am not liking where this thred is headed. Two of the V leaders are leaving. Chris, thank you for all your knowledge, hard work and laughs on the board I will be sad to see you go when you do. Doug, when you came out with the kit, I was so happy knowing that here in America, after buying an American car I could get some home engineering. Not in some German or English garage that I could never reach to fix my import car. I am worried that my baby goes in on monday for rear diff refurbishment. When this one goes, then what? Doug, why did you change your avatar?

CVP33
09-10-05, 11:50 AM
This is what really bothers me.

Scenario #1 - Take V into dealer who is customer service oriented. Service Manager sees mod's and asks you to explain. After a thoughtful conversation he says one of two things. Either

a) No problem we'll get 'er fixed right up
OR
b) Hey look I'm not going to be able to work on this car with these mod's. I'm sorry.

This way dealer retains the customer and everyone is happy.

Scenario #2 - And this is happening far too often. Take V into dealer who is NOT customer service oriented. Service Manager sees mod's and takes pictures, documents the add-ons and calls in a District or Area Service Manager. Your V is now "black flagged", warranty is in question and now EVERY service visit is a battle.

Why do so many dealerships opt for scenario #2? If your sole purpose in business is to sell cars then why would you engage in such practices. I'm not mad anymore just confused. Why would any dealer choose to have an adversarial relationship with ANY customer or potential customer? And yet they have.

Dennisscars
09-10-05, 12:29 PM
First lesson, decouple Parts, sales and service as they are three separate business' under one roof often competing/conflict with one another.

You have the sales people with their whitened teeth rubbing your ass to do anything to get you into the F&I guy's box. With a GM (general manager) who is on their ass to make numbers and to cover his/her draw. Do they love you? No.

Service department is it's own separate world and at the end of the story it comes down to money, and who is going to pay. You or them (the service dept) or the general. Typically you have a service writer is typically doesn't make the best money, a service manager who doesn't make much more and typically is the guy/gal that has to fall on the sword if a repair is done under warranty then later declined. His GM rips him a new one when warranty is denied after the fact because it comes out of their dept's budget. Who do they love more? You or Ben Frank?

Does the service manager has some leeway with warranty claims? Sorta, it depends on how well the department is run and how well the factory rep gets along with them.

I see the short coming with what I see on the forum is that many Cad dealers are used to dealing with Grandma coming in once a year to get her oil changed and windshield wipers replaced and wham bam they sell some high mark up service on her Deville and out she goes. They are most confused when they see actual failure. Anybody taken their car to a Corvette dealer? I'd like to think that GM warranty would be good there too.

Car dealerships are like doctors offices, some bad, many average, few excellent. Myself, I pass by 3 Cad dealers and drive an hour to the one I prefer.

Disclaimer, I may be all wet with regards to auto dealerships but this is my personal experience with heavy equip/truck dealers, so your mileage may vary.

ctsvett
09-10-05, 02:29 PM
Guys,
You remember that the dealer "black flagging" you is illegal.. If you come in with a complaint or problem, they need to PROVE that your modification directly caused the failure... If they cannot, then they MUST pay... Moss-magnusun act (legal 101)... You better just make sure that your mod didnt cause the failure.

If they refuse, take them to small claims court... do that a few times and they will get the idea.

CTSV05, I would NEVER have agreed to pay for part of the diff. You are essentially accepting some blame for the failure by doing this. I'm no lawyer, but I would take them to arbitration (or small claims) if they fought me on it.

Reed

CVP33
09-10-05, 02:34 PM
Dennis,

While you've done a great job of explaining the politics involved in a dealership you've done little to explain why a service writer blows the whistle on a customer. How do warranty claims get denied? Who has the authority? When do ASM's and DSM's get involved? The answer is simple. The only time a V owner will have an issue is when a service department is more interested in voiding the warranty than performing the repair.

Any V that is in warranty can and will be repaired under said warranty UNLESS the service writer decides to get someone else involved. I know of no warranty repairs made by any dealership that were later denied by corporate GM. What would be their basis? With all due respect I think you are completely missing the point.

Why call in a DSM/ASM unless your goal is to void the warranty?

Dennisscars
09-10-05, 05:16 PM
I can only speak for my experience(s). Why they are CYA-ing? I may not qualified to answer the "why" part of your question not being a party to that transaction and am not on any particular side.

I do know from working as a Service Manager (in a past life) for a large yellow engine manufacturer that if I, the SM, repaired a truck engine under warranty thinking all is well and sent the customer on his merry way and later submitted the bill to the mother ship there were instances that my claim for reimbursement would be denied for sometimes the most petty items. Was the customer happy? Yes. Was the store GM happy to eat a $10k repair? No.

There is lots of fine print in all warranties and not much that I know of is warrantied for everything under every condition.

The short answer is, it comes down to money and who's pocket it's coming out of. Which unfortunately has nothing to do with right and/or wrong.

This may be a good one to take to small claims as Reed suggests.

CTSV05
09-10-05, 07:52 PM
O.K, as for my stoogpidity, I admitted to this awhile back, I only left the kit installed on my car at the time the case exploded, out of naivite. All of the owners at my dealer knew it was there as 2 of the sons drove it for their opinions. The kit had been removed and reinstalled twice by the SERVICE DEPARTMENT, sorry for the redundancy.

So I just never thought there WAS a problem, or I most certainly would have removed said kit.

As far as paying half, we need our car, and I don't have the luxury of fighting this out in court for several months.

I have to believe the dealer's family isn't happy, as they are paying the other half out of their pocket.

And I do believe I have a good case, as Cadillac denied my claim based solely on the word of the service manager, and never even sent a DSM or ASM to look at the car!!!!

So as far as fighting this in court, I think it looks good for me, as they never proved ANYTHING, and never had anyone with any real knowledge look at the case. But, the last 2 lawsuits we've been in have taken well over a year or more to come to any conclusion.

Danny,

No not directly, but the service manger told GM that he knows my kit caused the case to break, and then lies to me saying he would never have left the kit on if he would have thought it would have voided my warranty, then tells Nick, he COULDN'T take it off because it was welded on!!!!

So you see where the problem lies..................I luvs peeples

A,

I changed it because I'm pissed!!! Sorry, but I'm not a very good pretenda....

Vrocks
09-10-05, 11:12 PM
Scenario #2 - And this is happening far too often. Take V into dealer who is NOT customer service oriented. Service Manager sees mod's and takes pictures, documents the add-ons and calls in a District or Area Service Manager. Your V is now "black flagged", warranty is in question and now EVERY service visit is a battle.

Why do so many dealerships opt for scenario #2? If your sole purpose in business is to sell cars then why would you engage in such practices. I'm not mad anymore just confused. Why would any dealer choose to have an adversarial relationship with ANY customer or potential customer? And yet they have.

If you mod your car and it could be related to a failure then it should be investigated. I'm sure some take it too far, and try to say a different air intake caused a rear diff, tire, or brakes to fail. But if you had an engine failure or problem and an aftermarket filter was in place...

The day isn't far off where we won't be able to mod are cars, aside from tint or aftermarket wheels and tires. Computer systems will be more secure and far more difficult for people to write programs for. The cars will report back to their manufacturer about any irregularities. If the date (time stamp) on a PCM is changed without it being "certified" by a dealer GM, Lexus, BMW,... will know. OnStar and services like it could send "refresh" signals every couple of days, to make sure your car is up to date with factory settings.

ace996
09-11-05, 01:31 AM
The reason why my DSM was called in for my dealership scenario is because the dealer-service dept ordered a new tranny for me. It is a high dollar part and requires the DSM to approve. When the DSM heard that my diff was also in need of replacement, he came down to the dealer to "inspect" my car. He saw my well worn runflats and denied the tranny due to aggressive driving habits.
-This was explained to me by the service manager and the DSM. Perhaps they were both lying, but the SM explained about the fact that the dealerhsip had a "high" warrantee repair issue that the DSM wasn't happy about, and was looking to cut costs.
Bottom line...they all suck.

Dave's V
09-11-05, 11:35 AM
We all know some people got lucky and had Cadillac pay for a repair that their mod caused. Well, now we are all paying the price. Cadillac has every right to verify if the car is stock if you take it in for a warranty repair. If it is not stock, then they must determine if the mod part caused the stock part to fail. I don't like CTSV05's situation because it sound like he was discussing his part with a respected dealership.

But any peformance increase can be a reason to deny say a rear end failure. The question is how much you want to risk your warranty for the additional power. All companies are doing this now so it isn't just Cadillac.

DSMs do need to be educated on the short life of stock run flats. And why did Cadillac modify the rear end and tranny on the 06?

Unless the builder of the modded part wants to privide a warranty for your non-OEM part, you are usually screwed.

It is getting harder to mod cars. We can blame high liability costs for that though. Big brother is getting involved too much. Eventually, I wouldn't be surprised if your gas tax will be based on how much you drive.

CTSV05
09-11-05, 12:34 PM
Either way its a shame, I mean it just seems there is a lack of respect from GM to us.

And Dave, not only did my dealer know of my kit, they sold one for me, and a GM engineer also called with interest in the kit........so you can understand my frustration.

Dave's V
09-11-05, 04:51 PM
CTSV05,
I agree, I would be frustrated also. That dealer seemed to turn their back on you and the rest of us. I'm sure they had some pressure from above. Their statement definitely sounded like it.

The part that pisses me off about the situation is that your kit seemed to fix the wheel hop problem, something their engineers couldn't figure out. I still believe the rear end's main problem is that it can't stay cooled enough (not enough fluid, not big enough) to put up with around 80% power of the V. And Cadillac's design only made it worst since the rear end would jump around a lot when the car's full power is used.

I noticed the new Z06 rear end its own cooler.

CVP33
09-11-05, 06:35 PM
I'm sure some take it too far, and try to say a different air intake caused a rear diff, tire, or brakes to fail.


DING, DING, DING, DING!!! BINGO! WE HAVE A WINNER! Now you're getting it. :highfive: :histeric:

Welcome to my world.

lasstss
09-11-05, 08:18 PM
It is generally accepted (by GM) that excessive wheel hop is the culprit with the fractured diffs. When we spoke to the gents from GM relative to the petition, I specifically asked them why the case failures? I also pointed out that to my knowledge, I have never heard of a case failure on a performance GM product before. Blown gears, yes, blown cases on a stock or mildly modified car, never seen it. Not to our magnitude. There is no reason these diffs should whine or break with +/- 200hp. Its what happens when you put an LS-6 in front of a 6 cyl rear with an inadequate carrier. Its not our fault.

The state police run the ass off the Impalas. I dont think they follow the break in schedule.

They did not reply..............

ylwjacket
09-11-05, 09:50 PM
The reason why my DSM was called in for my dealership scenario is because the dealer-service dept ordered a new tranny for me. It is a high dollar part and requires the DSM to approve. When the DSM heard that my diff was also in need of replacement, he came down to the dealer to "inspect" my car. He saw my well worn runflats and denied the tranny due to aggressive driving habits.
-This was explained to me by the service manager and the DSM. Perhaps they were both lying, but the SM explained about the fact that the dealerhsip had a "high" warrantee repair issue that the DSM wasn't happy about, and was looking to cut costs.
Bottom line...they all suck.

Aren't you supposed to drive this car aggressively? Otherwise, wouldn't they market it as 3 under 10 instead of 3 under 5?

msheri01
09-11-05, 11:29 PM
CTSV05- I would suggest you request a field engineer to show exactly what about your modification caused the failure. If the service manager told them your mod caused it, and they are taking his word only, I would request a second opinion. The dealer cannot "black flag" a car, in other words, add a flag to the vehicle warranty file, only GM can. I am not saying that your kit did or did not, but if it is being blamed, they should be able to show you how. I work for a dealer in Dayton, and we have seen 2 rear ends with noise. None of our local cars have the kit modification, and most of them have the FG2 shocks installed. We have put a diff in one V sold by Camargo, and one of the early cars we sold. I know you are in Columbus, and the area rep there is different than the one we have here. Our rep occaisionally calls us, asking what we have seen, since we have sold so many V's. As far as the issues we have seen on local cars:


1 car with the 1-2 synchro broken in the transmission. Tranny replaced.
2 diffs for whine, have not had one come in broken.
3 cars with wheel hop complaints, but none of the owners have returned contact regarding the bushing install.
2 cars with the windshield noise, molding reseal.
2 cars with radio button peel, radios replaced.
2 cars with tire vibrations, tires had excessive road force, tires replaced under warranty
1 car with rear rubber worn off at 7k miles, fronts still good. Owner purchased rear tires. 1 PEP car picked up at GM with rubber worn off at 10k miles, tires were replaced before car was sold.

We have not seen any cars with mods, all have been stock, so mod fights have not been an issue. We have sold over 25 V's, not all remain in our area, and we see cars sold by a couple of other dealers, so this is out of a pool of about 35 cars.

As a side note, when these cars first came out, one of the engineers asked to drive the first one we got that was not a pre-sale, just so he could get an idea of what was normal on the car, since GM had not made any available to the field engineers at that time.

CTSV05
09-12-05, 12:06 AM
MSHERI,

Thanx for the help, I will do so, just so you know, I asked Cadillac "customer sevice" for a second opinion and was summarily ignored. Hence my reason for the quotations when mentioning this joke of a service.

The only answer I ever got was You violated your warranty with an aftermarket part. I remarked with her that the MM law sited they must prove that my kit caused the failure, and she said the warrant preceeded all "state" laws, I told her ma'am, and the term was very loosely applicable, that federal law trumped any warranty, regadless of state.

What was her answer, glad you asked, "Sir I won't discuss legal matters with you"! The obviously un-informed personel runs rampant through the organization.

Am I whining, probably, am I pissed, you bet!

But and I repeat, I believe for the money spent, we should be treated with a whole bunch more respect!

R U Listening Cadillac????????

-uplink-
09-12-05, 01:19 AM
Ace996,

Tom, is that you? If so I'm Mike, we met at the last BMWCCA event. The guy running the 'borrowed' Aveo. :histeric:
I was supposed to be there on Saturday with a Lancer ES :shhh: but wound up dislocating my shoulder Friday night. Should be ok for the Oct. 1st event though.
-Mike

msheri01
09-14-05, 07:19 PM
MSHERI,

Thanx for the help, I will do so, just so you know, I asked Cadillac "customer sevice" for a second opinion and was summarily ignored. Hence my reason for the quotations when mentioning this joke of a service.

The only answer I ever got was You violated your warranty with an aftermarket part. I remarked with her that the MM law sited they must prove that my kit caused the failure, and she said the warrant preceeded all "state" laws, I told her ma'am, and the term was very loosely applicable, that federal law trumped any warranty, regadless of state.

What was her answer, glad you asked, "Sir I won't discuss legal matters with you"! The obviously un-informed personel runs rampant through the organization.

Am I whining, probably, am I pissed, you bet!

But and I repeat, I believe for the money spent, we should be treated with a whole bunch more respect!

R U Listening Cadillac????????

Cadillac Customer assistance is not going to solve your problem, you need a face to face with the ASM and or engineer. The warranty does not cover damage caused as a result of modification after final assembly. The key words are "as a result of" GM has the responsibility to show that it was a direct result of the modification. Have you asked to have the vehicle evaluated by another dealer for a second opinion?

CTSV05
09-14-05, 11:44 PM
No, I have not.

The car is sceduled to be repaired tomorrow, and to be honest, I just want the car running again.

The group known as PQC has made the determination based solely on pictures taken by the sm. I guess they are the GM gustapo group that is cracking down on drivetrain warranty repairs, since my trans was replaced only a few weeks, followed by the clutch that was under the TSB, which was not in stock when the tranny was replaced, before the diff blew, my vin sent up a flare.

Thanx for the advice, but at this point, I'm taking Chesrown's help and biting the bullet, I will file against Cadillac for their non following of proper procedure, so I'll see how it goes.

ctsvett
09-15-05, 01:13 AM
Dear Lord,
Please make Msheri, V-series_tech, or anyone from Linday Cadillac move to Southern california to be my dealer or provide me an exact clone that cares and is knowledgable about my car. Also give me a good ASM and regional rep who understand that every mod I put on does NOT cause a failure.

Amen.

Oh, and world peace, end to world hunger, and God Bless America.

Reed

ace996
09-15-05, 09:31 AM
Uplink,
yes its me. I couldn't find a ride for last weeks event, so Oct1st its on. See you there.
-ace996