: Do Northstars burn oil fast???



cadillac6
11-24-03, 07:20 PM
I woke up this moring to roll to my insurance company to put full coverage everything on my 97 cadillac concours, and hopped in my ride. Started it. And in my guage it said "check oil level". I checked it and it was really low! I had it changed like 2 weeks go with 7 quarts of synthetic. And now im out of oil??? I dont have a leak. I checked everywhere i drove today and in my driveway etc. So I put 7 quarts back in it. And now I will have to see what happens. But do they burn oil fast?

epanightmare
11-24-03, 07:35 PM
I woke up this moring to roll to my insurance company to put full coverage everything on my 97 cadillac concours, and hopped in my ride. Started it. And in my guage it said "check oil level". I checked it and it was really low! I had it changed like 2 weeks go with 7 quarts of synthetic. And now im out of oil??? I dont have a leak. I checked everywhere i drove today and in my driveway etc. So I put 7 quarts back in it. And now I will have to see what happens. But do they burn oil fast?
I think it's more likly that your car is leaking oil instead of burning it. If it is burning oil and losing it at the rate you say you would definatly notice the smell and a almost constant blue-gray smoke cloud coming from the tail pipe. Also there would be an oily film on the rear of the car.
Try steam cleaning the engine , this will make most oil leaks easyer to spot

BTW I think that the northstar holds 8 quarts of oil..:halo:

hope this helps....:coffee:

cadillac6
11-24-03, 08:52 PM
Thats the thing i didnt see any oil anywhere! wierd? yeah i think so. Ayways good thing for my car telling me to check my oil level or else i would have been up a creek without a paddle. I just changed it 2 weeks ago so i figured that there was no point to check it this soon.

Slick Black Cadillac
11-25-03, 03:39 AM
Thats the thing i didnt see any oil anywhere! wierd? yeah i think so. Ayways good thing for my car telling me to check my oil level or else i would have been up a creek without a paddle. I just changed it 2 weeks ago so i figured that there was no point to check it this soon.

The Northstar engine has been somewhat notorious for having an appitite for oil (nothing to worry about). Because it runs at a hotter temperature you may expeirence a noteable ammount of oil consumption. However; if you are losing a large quantity over a short peirod of time your problem may be more seirous than this.

mcowden
11-25-03, 01:36 PM
But do they burn oil fast?
In a word, yes. The Northstars do tend to burn more oil than most engines. Unless you see lots of oil accumulation on the bottom side of the engine compartment, which would indicate a leak, it is probably just burning it as you drive. You won't see blue or black smoke unless it's burning a pretty large amount of oil. The typical Northstar oil burning pattern doesn't seem to produce such a phenomenon. My '96 SLS burns up about a quart every 700-1500 miles depending on how it's driven. If I'm doing mostly in-town or stop-and-go driving, it seems to burn a little more than easy highway miles. Keep track of your mileage before adding a quart and let us know!

There are a number of factors on the Northstar engines which seem to cause this phenomenon. One comment in another thread suggests that the cylinder bore is ground at the factory with a particularly aggressive hash pattern which is designed to hold more oil in the upper portion of the cylinder for better lubrication of the rings. That would certainly cause a little more oil consumption, but I don't know to what extent. If someone can definitively answer this one or provide more insights, I think many would be most appreciative. Another thought is that gunk accumulation around the rings tends to pull more oil up into the combustion area where it is burned.

There is a procedure that Cadillac dealers can perform on the engine to clean up deposits around the rings that is supposed to help with high oil consumption. It involves removing the spark plugs and using a device with hoses that screw into the spark plug sockets, then pouring in some kind of cleaner solvent for a couple hours. I've read through the procedure, and it sounds time-consuming and somewhat expensive if it's not covered by warranty. If your Cad is under warranty, the dealer might do it, but the "squeaky wheel" principle will probably have to be applied.

If you don't see any oil drippings on the driveway/garage floor and there seems to be no other logical explanation for what's happening to the oil, it's probably just the typical Northstar high oil consumption. Unless someone disagrees or has other information, I don't believe it's a problem. Just check the oil level regularly. As I understand it, when the oil level is at the "Full" mark, the reservoir is actually about 1/4 quart overfull. The "Check Oil Level" message seems to come up when it's about 1.5 quarts low.

If you do suspect it's consuming an abnormally large amount of oil, then it's time to start checking for things like leaks around valve cover gaskets, pan gaskets, oil filter gaskets, etc. Chances are, if you're relatively new to Northstar engines, what you're experiencing is normal oil consumption.

Hopefully this will help set your mind at ease. Other information, experiences, thoughts, opinions, corrections anyone?

beemer2k
11-25-03, 03:22 PM
I woke up this moring to roll to my insurance company to put full coverage everything on my 97 cadillac concours, and hopped in my ride. Started it. And in my guage it said "check oil level". I checked it and it was really low! I had it changed like 2 weeks go with 7 quarts of synthetic. And now im out of oil??? I dont have a leak. I checked everywhere i drove today and in my driveway etc. So I put 7 quarts back in it. And now I will have to see what happens. But do they burn oil fast?
8 qt oil capacity is probably the answer. But if 7 qts is a typo and you did put 8 in, did you take any 1500 mile trips with your concours between your last oil change and now? My 96 sts smokes through a qt every 1200 miles or so with semi-spirited driving. It's normal. You can fix the problem with timeserts (expensive) or you can just do what I do: add 2 qts 2500 miles (or as needed) after an oil change, then drive another 1500 miles before your next oil change. ;)

ljklaiber
11-25-03, 03:27 PM
In a word, yes. The Northstars do tend to burn more oil than most engines. Unless you see lots of oil accumulation on the bottom side of the engine compartment, which would indicate a leak, it is probably just burning it as you drive. You won't see blue or black smoke unless it's burning a pretty large amount of oil. The typical Northstar oil burning pattern doesn't seem to produce such a phenomenon. My '96 SLS burns up about a quart every 700-1500 miles depending on how it's driven. If I'm doing mostly in-town or stop-and-go driving, it seems to burn a little more than easy highway miles. Keep track of your mileage before adding a quart and let us know!

There are a number of factors on the Northstar engines which seem to cause this phenomenon. One comment in another thread suggests that the cylinder bore is ground at the factory with a particularly aggressive hash pattern which is designed to hold more oil in the upper portion of the cylinder for better lubrication of the rings. That would certainly cause a little more oil consumption, but I don't know to what extent. If someone can definitively answer this one or provide more insights, I think many would be most appreciative. Another thought is that gunk accumulation around the rings tends to pull more oil up into the combustion area where it is burned.

There is a procedure that Cadillac dealers can perform on the engine to clean up deposits around the rings that is supposed to help with high oil consumption. It involves removing the spark plugs and using a device with hoses that screw into the spark plug sockets, then pouring in some kind of cleaner solvent for a couple hours. I've read through the procedure, and it sounds time-consuming and somewhat expensive if it's not covered by warranty. If your Cad is under warranty, the dealer might do it, but the "squeaky wheel" principle will probably have to be applied.

If you don't see any oil drippings on the driveway/garage floor and there seems to be no other logical explanation for what's happening to the oil, it's probably just the typical Northstar high oil consumption. Unless someone disagrees or has other information, I don't believe it's a problem. Just check the oil level regularly. As I understand it, when the oil level is at the "Full" mark, the reservoir is actually about 1/4 quart overfull. The "Check Oil Level" message seems to come up when it's about 1.5 quarts low.

If you do suspect it's consuming an abnormally large amount of oil, then it's time to start checking for things like leaks around valve cover gaskets, pan gaskets, oil filter gaskets, etc. Chances are, if you're relatively new to Northstar engines, what you're experiencing is normal oil consumption.

Hopefully this will help set your mind at ease. Other information, experiences, thoughts, opinions, corrections anyone?

There are similarities to the 400 inch SB Chevy which was a .250 inch stroke increase and did the same as NS because the crankcounter weights were dipping into and aerating the crankcase oil, which cause the gas properties to go out the valvecovers and the oil to thicken and as no smoke was visible, there were a lot of ...'What the Hell's' goin on. Try 6 and a half quart with filter change and see if that helps. I been doin it for a year now and hardly show a drop at all.

I do get three or four drops a week on the driveway, but no appreciable loss.

95 SLS....138400 miles

jonrodman
11-28-03, 09:22 PM
There are similarities to the 400 inch SB Chevy which was a .250 inch stroke increase and did the same as NS because the crankcounter weights were dipping into and aerating the crankcase oil, which cause the gas properties to go out the valvecovers and the oil to thicken and as no smoke was visible, there were a lot of ...'What the Hell's' goin on. Try 6 and a half quart with filter change and see if that helps. I been doin it for a year now and hardly show a drop at all.

I do get three or four drops a week on the driveway, but no appreciable loss.

95 SLS....138400 miles

I don't think oil loss is very common in the Northstars. Some people seem to experience oil consumption, but mine does not burn, leak or lose any noticeable amount of oil. I know two other people who drive them and they don't have oil consumption issues either.

Jon
99STS

kcnewell
12-02-03, 11:53 PM
Long post alert! ( But worth it I think! ) The following wandering thoughs were put down in answer to the ongoing oil consumption discussion and I thought that it might be good to get additional mileage out of it here to. If interested, read on....

The comment was made about the variance in oil consumption on Northstar engines being more of a concern than the actual consumption of any given engine...thus the following comments.

Good point about the difference in consumption....

The real issue is the limitations of the production tolerances on the honing process for the cylinder bores. Size is no problem..they are all dead nuts. Surface finish is the issue. It is imperative that the "smoothest" possible surface finish from the process retain enough oil to not starve the top rings under continuous heavy load and high RPM. Unfortunately, to make the smoothest possible surface finish "rough" enough to retain oil...the resulting "roughest" or most aggressive surface finish the process is then capable of will contribute to a 1000 miles per quart or worse.

There is really no magic here. All the automakers have access to the same honing process and honing equipment manufacturers. Thus, they are all "stuck" with the same variation in production. As engine specific outputs have risen and the operating RPM of the engines have risen over the years all the engine makers have gone to a more agressive surface finish for proper oil retention. And all run into the same situation with variation in oil economy. If you do some reading and research you will find that all engine makers will state that roughly 1000 miles per quart is "acceptable" or "normal" in some fashion.

Not to say that the 'average" engine gets that oil economy...but...and engine that gets 1000 miles per quart will have absolutely nothing wrong with it at disassembly and inspection.

Fact is that the engines that tend toward the high end for oil consumption seem to look the best at high mileage...whether it is the higher oil supply to the top of the piston or the frequent spiking of the oil in the sump with fresh additives due to more frequent adds (or both) is up for debate.

Back in the "old days" of 350 cu in engines that made 180 HP it was entirely possible to make the cylinder walls mirror smooth and the engine would live and use virtually no oil. Won't work today with the HP over 1 HP/cubic inch and RPM up to 6000 continuos and 6500 RPM shift points. The top rings will not take it without microwelding to the ring lands of the pistons.

The honing operations have received many improvements over the years as technology in the honing arena improved. Today, diamond stones with a water based honing coolant is the norm for long life stones that do not change over time. The older processes with vitrous stones and honing oil change significantly as the stones break in and wear and the stones had to be changed frequently as they wore out...so each hone was going thru a continual cycle of break-in and wear out of the stones. Generally on a V8 two cylinders on each bank are honed at a time and then the other two are done in the next station by two other stones....so any given engine has 4 different honing stone sets in the differenct bores. Depending on what the life of the stones is and when they were being replaced there can be some variation in the surface finish (in regards to oil consumption) from cylinder to cylinder and bank to bank. Usually when the stones are new they make the most aggressive cut and leave the most aggressive pattern. The stones get smoother as they wear and the pattern gets less agressive. All the stones are "broken in" in initially on scrap blocks but there is obviously some change in the next several hundred blocks.

To put things in perspective, an average engine builder might hone one or two engines a week. A major NASCAR engine builder might do 400 or 500 engines a year..... EVERY DAY the engine plant that makes Northstar engines hones 1000 blocks...that's 8000 bores. And even more are done on a lot of days...the 1000 number is very loose. There is a great deal of process control placed on the cylinder wall surface finish but the inherent variences in the process will certainly lead to a considerable difference in oil economy in some engines...and absolutely nothing will be wrong with them.

Personally, if I could pick my engine from the line, I would go for one that uses about 1500 per quart. Seriously.

One thing that was done on the original Northstar engines was a process called plateau honing. In this process the cylinder walls are "marked" with a very agressive hone that leaves fairly deep scratches. The high points of the hone pattern are then smoothed with a second hone plateauing off the tops or tips of the "peaks". Under a micorscope this looks like a flat platueau with relatively deep, narrow crevices for oil retention. This process worked very well for oil retention and durability but was inconsistent for oil consumption to some extent. The current process has been improved with a more conventional hone that is not deliberately plateaued and is more consistent. Plus it uses the diamond stones that last far longer and are much more consistent over time.

The other thing that the modern engines sacrifice oil consumption for is friction. The thinner rings and lighter spring load rings are desireable for power, sealing of compression, less friction and lighter mass for less ring flutter at high speeds. Unfortunately, there is no free lunch here, and the lighter rings let a little more oil by.

The 2000 and later Northstar engines get hard anodized top ring lands to resist pound out and wear since the ring lands were moved closer to the top of the piston. One unfortunate side effect of the hard anodizing is the microscopic "pebbly" finish of the anodizing that tends to cause lack of seating of the SIDE of the ring to the SIDE of the ring land. This pebbly area will retain oil and cause oil consumption until the anodizing is polished smooth as the rings "break in" to the ring lands. The anodizing is hard, however, so that is why the "drive it like you stole it" advice works , particularily on later Northstars, to ensure good break in and sealing for less oil consumption. Many of the oil consumption complaint engines that have been analyzed at the factory had the anodizing on the piston ring lands virtually unscathed...as in never broken in due to gently driving and babying. The engine likes heavy loads, high RPM to break in completely.

The heavy load/high RPM also promotes ring rotation on the piston to keep the rings freed up and mobile. The oil comsumption complaints from the older Northstars typically come about due to ring sticking in the ring lands due to carbon buildup and the rings gradually getting stuck in place. they have to move to work. Keep them exercised.

Hopefully this rambling will shed additional light on the subject....

gdgrosse
12-04-03, 10:07 PM
kcnewell,

Thanks for justifying my high RPM driving habits. I purchased a used 2000 SLS about 4 months ago. After the first 3000 miles I put on the car, it had used more than 2 quarts when the Check Oil Level light came on.

You are probably correct in suggesting the car's previous owner used it for short distances at nominal revs and therefore prevented proper break-in, no ring-rotation and increased carbon build-up.

For reference, here is a a quick note about Backus Cadillac's method of dealing with a problem: I drove the car hard immediately after I purchased it (for a few hundred miles), noticed several minor problems: first of all there was an almost undetectable rattle, vibration or slack in the suspension when driving over ripples on the road. I'm a perfectionist, and since the car was still under warranty at 40k, the dealership replaced the CV joints and several parts of the steering column. Problem solved, amazing service in Savannah, Georgia. (They do not hesitate to spend GM's money).

... Then the check oil light came on after 3000 miles, (1000 were part of a trip to upstate New York)... A dealership in Troy, NY performed the "carbon soak" according to the TSB released by GM earlier this year. I have access to the TSBs and read over it carefully. Unfortunately, the local service technicians are relatively stubborn and for some reason left the solution in the combustion chamber for 24 hours instead of the prescribed 2 or 4 hours (i don't recall the exact prescribed duration). Somehow I think they just performed the procedure without reading the TSB along the way. They even called me up and asked me to pay for the oil change that is required for the procedure. Despite the fact that my oil change was overdue by a few hundred miles, the TSB requires the oil to be changed after the technician drives the car around for a while after vacuuming out the cleaning solution and replacing the spark plugs. Unfortunately, this was likely never performed. Nevertheless, I signed for the service and drove the car extremely hard for the next 3000 miles. It used about 1/2 quart this time. At that point, I changed the oil and used Mobil 1 synthetic. I have put about 2000 miles on it since then and it is about 1/4 quart low, driving hard as ever.

Now, the trunk leak is another issue, but that is for another day and another forum area. I acquired the 3 book set of shop manuals for the car from eBay recently and will be using that from now on. Keep in mind I owned a Dodge Omni prior to this Cadillac and would take apart the engine block on my street with the shop manual I had for that. That was a 1990 and didn't use a drop of oil. Kcnewell was right about that... smooth bores, smooth rings, low horsepower, no pickup whatsoever and no oil consumption. Now, if only I had the GLHS version of that car. Someday I will, as a project of course.

-Greg

kcnewell
12-07-03, 04:29 PM
This is going to be another long one.. The subject of oil consumption really does not have a "final" answer. The fact is that there is some variability in oil consumption in all production engines....regardless of who makes them on which continent. All the manufacturers recognize this and virtually all of them will call oil consumption as great as 1 quart in 1000 miles "normal" "acceptable" "allowable" "within production tolerances" etc.... This doesn't mean that all engines will get 1000 MPQ or that the engine was designed to get 1000 MPQ...it just recognizes the fact that there are going to be some engines that get 1000 MPQ that will be perfectly fine upon disassembly and will have nothing "wrong" with them.

The variables that usually enter into oil consumption are primarily associated with the piston/ring/cylinder bore. The number of valves or type of valve actuation has little to do with it.

The single biggest variable and the one that haas been discussed at great length on this forum is the cylinder bore finish or the cylinder honing pattern. The higher perfromance the engine is the more attention must be paid to the honing pattern and retention of oil on the cylinder walls to lubricate the piston and rings at full load , high RPM operation. The Northstar engine uses a very agressive cylinder bore finish that tends to retain a lot of oil to protect the piston and rings. When the blocks are honed at the factory there is a tolerance in the bore finish due to the fact that the honing stones will wear and need replacement. A brand new stone gives a slightly more agressive pattern than a "used" stone....so a block honed with new stones will have a more aggressive finish and most likely will use more oil.

Another variable is bore roundness. Like it or not, the bores tend to "move" slightly as the engine heats up and cools down and bolt tensions relax, etc. over time. All this contributes to slight bore out of roundness that is not bad or good...just different.

Carbon buildup in the rings and reing sealing are also variables that come into play with breakin, operating schedule, type of oil used, etc.

The one thing that I can attest to is that many, many customer oil consumption complaint engines have been torn down with absolutely nothing wrong found. The engines are often reassembled and put into test cars and driven by the engineers and more often than not the high oil consumption does not repeat itself !!! The single biggest common cause seems to be breakin...or lack there of. Many, many oil consuming Northstar engines are "fixed" by some full throttle operation. I joke about "driving it like you stole it" but it really is no joke. The Northstar engine was designed as a high performance engine to be run hard and fast. Those that are run hard typically exhibit excellent ring seal, little carbon build up and good oil economy. We have seen engines with tens of thousands of miles on them that the rings have not sealed or mated to the sides of the ring grooves because the operating schdule was so light duty. The moral here is to flog it .... often.

In any case, the nice thing about the engines with the more aggressive honing pattern is that the pistons, rings and bores will last forever. It is very common to tear down a 200,000 mile Northstar engine and still see the original honing pattern in the cylinders. There is never any sign of cyilnder wall wear and the idea of a wear "ridge" at the top of the cyilnder bore is something that is laughable on a Northstar.

The other nice thing about a little oil consumption is that it adds tremendous safety factor to the oil change interval. Nothing could be better for the engine than an occasional quart of fresh oil. You can take the worst oil on the market and add a fresh quart every 1000 miles and over the life of the engine the wear will be better than an engine run on the best oil with no adds between changes.

While no one in the engineering commumnity wants high oil consuption the fact is that there is some variability in the oil consumption of an engine manufacturered at the rate of 1200 per day. The specs of what is "normal" simply reflects this...it does not imply that all engines whould get this or that somthing is wrong with and engine that gets more or less oil consumption.

There have been a lot of engineering changes over the years on the Northstar aimed at reducing the overall oil consumption and reducing the variability in the oil consumption of different engines. Many changes have been made to the honeing process to make it moe consistent. Changes to the piston and ring groove treatment have been made to make it more resistent to wear, poundout and microwelding at low oil retention rates. Regardless, there is still some variability.

One other thing that affects oil consuption, or the customers perception of oil consumption, is the move toward longer and longer change intervals. With the allowable change interval reaching as high as 12,500 miles on a 2003 Northstar if the oil life monitor is followed this could mean the addition of 3,4 or 5 quarts of oil to a very healthy engine. If the owner changes thier oil every 2000 or 3000 miles (This is what I do.) despite the oil life monitor recommendations, then they would not have to add any oil between changes. The oil consumption is the same....the amount added between changes is all that is different. Yet, many customers do not make the distinction. Field surveys repeatedly show that "acceptable" oil onsuption means "not having to add between changes"...whatever MPQ that is...???

The issue of oil consumption is very emotional , too, as many people perceive higher oil consumption as "poor quality" or an indication that something is wrong. Blue smoke, fouling plugs, noise, etc...is a sign of something wrong. Using 1 quart in 1000 miles might be perfectly normal for an engine that has the high limit "rough" hone finish and is perfectly in spec...yet it will be perceived differently.

The Northstar engine in particular was designed to be a high performance engine and to perform well at high speeds and high loads. The engines are tested at loads and speeds for time periods few customers will ever be able to duplicate. It is unfortunate that the engineering that goes into making the engine capable of such running sometimes contributes to more oil consumption...especially as the production machining tolerances are taken into account.

The items mentioned about overfilling also apply. Make sure that the system is not overfilled as any excess oil will be pushed out the PCV. The best bet is to always check the oil hot and keep it midway between the add and full mark. Don't always top off and don't top off cold to the full mark as that will overfill the sump.

I hope this helps rather than adding more fuel to the fire...so to speak.

Always keep in mind that for every "oil burner" you read about on the internet there are 10,000 or more driving around perfectly fine that the people are not posting about.... You are always going to read about the horror cases on the internet.

If you had a BMW then you must enjoy the www.my750.com site. Typical "hate site" that pops up to promote so called "epidemic" problems with a particular product.


Don't stress out over things that don't matter....

Night Wolf
12-07-03, 06:04 PM
I personally go 5k miles between oil changes, I have the 4.9 though.... I do not use much oil, when I first switched to synthetic, I was using about 1 quart every 1000miles, then it went to 1/2 quart, then 1/4 quart, and now to hardly any.....

but my question is, say you have a N* and go 5k miles in between oil changes, and it needs a quart every 1k miles.... does it make sense to use synthetic oil then? that would be alotof money too... and if it takes 8 quarts (vs my 5.5) then it seems like the cost of oil could add up over time....

kcnewell
12-07-03, 06:16 PM
I.M.H.O. It never makes sense to use synthetics ( This'll start them screaming! ) They don't do anything but cost more. Your engine doesn't need them ( So you're wasting your money ) I never go 5000 miles between oil changes I change at 2000/2500 max. But....That's just me.

jonrodman
12-07-03, 11:31 PM
Hello kcnewell,
That was an excellent reply pertaining to variances in oil consumption rates.

Please elaborate on that paragraph pertaining to overfilling. I may be guilty of occasionally checking the oil when cold (sometimes very cold in upstate NY) and carefully filling the crankcase (if it is at all low) exactly to the full line before a long trip. Actually I have only done this once. The car had just returned from being serviced and the oil level was slightly low. From now on I will warm up the engine first, but what should I know about this practice?

Jon
96STS

kcnewell
12-08-03, 12:56 AM
Reading your post tells me that now you know what you need to know...Either leave it a little bit on the low side or check and fill it hot..'Nuff Said.

Ralph
12-08-03, 01:14 AM
I.M.H.O. It never makes sense to use synthetics ( This'll start them screaming! ) They don't do anything but cost more. Your engine doesn't need them ( So you're wasting your money ) I never go 5000 miles between oil changes I change at 2000/2500 max. But....That's just me.

OK mister KC, now I'M SCREAMING! :histeric: :yawn: Your first long post was interesting enough for me to warrent printing it for my dad who "babies" his 2003 DTS. Re: syn, can you admit that those of us who live in a colder climate MAY be able to benefit from the -45 flow characteristics. bouncer: :coolgleam

kcnewell
12-08-03, 08:06 PM
Only for you Ralphie.....I hate to see a guy with glasses cry!

capn
02-25-04, 10:12 PM
when i first bought my caddy and changed the oil less than 1000 miles the 7.5 quarts were down to nothing, yet i used 10w30 so i just got a thicker oil like 10w40 and the consumption went down so just get a thicker oil if you want

Vesicant
02-25-04, 11:20 PM
Does anyone know what the usage reports are like for people (preferably older than 50) who drive Northstar powered Cadillacs and rarely if ever get the engine above 3000 rpms? I mean, you've got to have some serious build up of hydrocarbons over the miles, especially if its driven a lot but not hard and the engines fluids are practically never changed.

I mean, its not like going from 0 to 60 in 1 minute is THAT bad... :rant2: ;)

BeelzeBob
02-26-04, 07:11 PM
gotta say that kcnewell is pretty good with the cut and paste buttons. All of his "long posts" above were pirated from my posts on another forum. Plagarism is common on the internet and I certainly don't mind people spreading good information around but it is nice to give credit to the original poster.

edlo96bc
02-26-04, 08:06 PM
I found the same thing happening. When i first go my car i wanted to try the full synthetic oil. In a few weeks of driving the "check oil" message came on and the oil was low, which really bothered me. I checked and the car was not smoking and was not leaking on the ground. I figured that maybe the full synthetic may be better resisting breakdown but it seamed to be a "thinner" oil. I then switched to vavoline high milage 10w-30 non-synthetic with .5 qt of STP oil treatment which seamed to reduce the consumption and just recently tried Quaker state high milage with oil treatment additive and that seems to work even better. This may not be the answer but it make me feel better that the oil is not disappearing as fast.

JimD
02-26-04, 08:36 PM
gotta say that kcnewell is pretty good with the cut and paste buttons. All of his "long posts" above were pirated from my posts on another forum. Plagarism is common on the internet and I certainly don't mind people spreading good information around but it is nice to give credit to the original poster.


More than nice, Bbob! Peer review expects, requires, demands footnotes.

Glad to see you (finally) challenge this abuse of the concept of personal integrity.

BeelzeBob
02-26-04, 10:31 PM
More than nice, Bbob! Peer review expects, requires, demands footnotes.

Glad to see you (finally) challenge this abuse of the concept of personal integrity.

As I said, I am more concerned that the correct info gets out as far as possible so I don't mind in a way...but...that particular individual must have cut and pasted everything I put on the caddyinfo forum over the past year and copies it here as if it were his....and he doesn't even change a single word!! This is the third time I have seen him posting an "authoratative post" on some subject using verbatim material that I wrote. At least paraphrase or change a word or two....LOL

RAD
02-27-04, 01:30 AM
Well, I'm a subscribing member from that "other forum" and I must say kcnewell, that you have achieved plagarism in it's most effort free form. Not the first time either...At least you chose one of the best possible sources of quality facts and information to pilfer from.."bill bbobynski" Keep up the good work, eh?

Ralph
02-27-04, 02:39 AM
Well, I'm a subscribing member from that "other forum" and I must say kcnewell, that you have achieved plagarism in it's most effort free form. Not the first time either...At least you chose one of the best possible sources of quality facts and information to pilfer from.."bill bbobynski" Keep up the good work, eh?

I have nothing against you Bob, or you Rad. KC isn't here and I don't want to talk for him, I'm sure he will do that in the future. Way back when I first read KC'c post, I never thought it was HE who wrote it, and I thought he implied this, for example, in KC's number 9 post, he states: "the following wandering thoughts WERE PUT DOWN in answer to the ongoing oil consumption discussion, and I thought it might be good to get additional mileage out of it HERE...." If I (Ralph) wanted to take credit for you post Bob, I would say "Here's what I think...." or "These are my thoughts on oil consumption...." I have done enough Universtiy reports to know that he could have cited your exact name Bob, but I don't think it was ever implied that KC actually wrote those himself. (I never got that impression) Correct, KC could or should have mentioned where he got the info from, but I repeat, I PERSONALLY NEVER AT THE TIME, GOT THE IMPRESSION THAT KC HIMSELF TOOK CREDIT FOR YOUR POSTS, OR WROTE THEM HIMSELF. You are correct, plagerism is wrong, but in this case, there may be grey areas. Yes Bob, keep up the good work, you are a great guy, very helpful and knowledgable, and we need you around here! :)

Eldobroken
02-27-04, 02:41 AM
As I said, I am more concerned that the correct info gets out as far as possible so I don't mind in a way...but...that particular individual must have cut and pasted everything I put on the caddyinfo forum over the past year and copies it here as if it were his....and he doesn't even change a single word!! This is the third time I have seen him posting an "authoratative post" on some subject using verbatim material that I wrote. At least paraphrase or change a word or two....LOLIn my opinon it just plain sucks. he, she could learn something from it and then post there own version. If they are cut and paste happy at least give credit to the person who took the time and effort to write it.

PhantomCadillac
02-27-04, 10:31 AM
bbobynski deserves the credit for his post. To cut and paste and not give credit is just wrong. I know from reading post from here for a while that bboynski really knows the cadillacs better than most and I trust his information. He gives detail information and it doesn't seem at least in my humble opinion that he is just letting it fly out his -ss as some seem to do.

JohnnyLfromCT
02-27-04, 04:59 PM
Bbob is the man around here, plain & simple.

I've been here since August of '03, & I've yet to come across a more knowledgable person when it comes to the Northstar engine.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

Ralph
02-27-04, 06:21 PM
bbobynski deserves the credit for his post. To cut and paste and not give credit is just wrong. I know from reading post from here for a while that bboynski really knows the cadillacs better than most and I trust his information. He gives detail information and it doesn't seem at least in my humble opinion that he is just letting it fly out his -ss as some seem to do.

Absolutely! I respect and look up to Bob very much, as he is probably is THE most knowlegable individual on these subjects! :worship: If I develop a problem with my car, I will hope he can help me also! I also think it's been mentioned several times that they were originally Bob's posts, and no one is challenging that fact. Yes, KC should have cited the source, and perhaps, even WHERE he got the info from. I honestly don't think that KC was "trying" to take credit for anothers post, he just didn't give reference properly to Bob. :)