: GM Black box right or wrong



airbalancer
11-22-03, 07:18 PM
Herea story were some was charge because of the black box
He had said the other driver was in the wrong
was the court right or wrong to use the black box
Car's 'black box' convicts Montreal driver

Last Updated Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:48:25
MONTREAL - Quebec police won a dangerous-driving conviction Friday using evidence from the "black box" in the car, a first in the province.




The black box or event data recorder (EDR), which automatically records a car's speed and other information, showed Eric Gauthier was driving at least 131 km/h when he hit another car in downtown Montreal in April of 2001.

Yacine Zinet, 19, was killed in the crash.

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/10/24/blackbox031024

I guess if you not in shit, it will not be a bad thing


There were no witnesses, but police used the black box in 20-year-old Gauthier's car to determine his speed and build a case against him.

He was convicted of dangerous driving, but cleared of a more serious charge of criminal negligence causing death.

Zinet's sister, Belinda Matthey, was unhappy with the outcome.

"It was possible to see the car, there was no obstruction of any buildings, so it's more than dangerous driving," she said.

But she's glad that the case has established the credibility of black-box evidence.

The EDR was built to determine why a car's air bag activated, but can now be used to reconstruct what happens in the seconds before an accident.

Logandiagnostic
11-22-03, 08:45 PM
Right or wrong...its happening now!

Interesting.....we actually provide this very service. Since 1994 GM has been using the airbag module as a recorder. Its actually called the SDM for 'Supplemental Diagnostic Module.'

Basically, the SDM records the vehicle data during the final 5 seconds before a vehicle airbag deployment. These are refered to 'events.' This is because in most cases when the airbag has deployed the car technically has not stopped and is still moving to some extent. Maybe another 5 feet or maybe over the edge of a cliff. So reconstuction is still required, but the stored data will sure give you some idea of who is telling you the truth.

There are 2 modes of recording in the SDM. In a airbag deployment the data is hard recorded. In other words there is no way the crash data can be cleared from the SDM. In all GM deployments the SDM must be replaced with the airbags. There is another type of event where there is data recorded but can be cleared with either a Vetronix CDR module or with 'x' number of key cycles. This is a situation where the car has some type of impact, but no deployment. Its a hard enough impact to where the 'SDM' wakes up and starts recording data.

Heres a 117 mph crash sample...

http://www.millerengineering.com/cdr-ex.gif

The 117mph data tells alot but not the whole story. The VSS sensor can only measure mph accurately in a reasonably straight line. So if the car is in a slide or spin this data can be misleading. Just an example how the data can be skewed.

As mentioned before we have this equipment that can retrieve this recorded data. It requires a very expensive Vetronix CDR module and a PC. The CDR module is about $2700 with a additional $400/per year subscription.

The current rule of thumb is the data belongs to the owner of the car. So is that you or the bank that holds the cars title? I dont know but the courts are certain to challange that at some point. If you are in a wreck it may be in your best interest to get this data before the car is destoyed. If you dont the police/insurance company/bank may do it for you.

Heres our website related to our crash data retrieval service-

http://www.crashdatainfo.com

There promises to be lots of controversy over this, as people figure out this data is just sitting there waiting to be used for or against them.

Logan

Mad'lac
11-22-03, 11:00 PM
Time to buy old Iron!!!! I don't need Big Brother to one day use that same black box to send me a ticket every time I go over the limit or shut down my car as I am driving. And that can happen too!!!!! Think its hard to set up some kind of sensor system in all the major cities that can read the info from your car as you pass by?

DaveSmed
11-22-03, 11:20 PM
THINK it's hard? There doing it now. They are monitoring EZ-Pass transponders via antennas on the back of some road signs to "keep tabs on traffic conjestion" I'm sure that no one will come up with some way to abuse that in the future. :rolleyes:

kcnewell
11-23-03, 12:00 AM
THINK it's hard? There doing it now. They are monitoring EZ-Pass transponders via antennas on the back of some road signs to "keep tabs on traffic conjestion" I'm sure that no one will come up with some way to abuse that in the future. :rolleyes:



No brainer here....Don't get easy pass. pay the damned toll in cash and who'll be the wiser......WOW! That was hard.

Mad'lac
11-23-03, 01:45 PM
We don't have a toll road here in SA.......YET!! They do want to set up 2 toll roads......but the people are saying why should we pay toll for a road thats been free all these years. Just carry loose changes and you'll be fine.

Night Wolf
11-23-03, 07:56 PM
So then when you pay the toll, and the time is printed out, and if you got from point A to point B in 40 min when it should have taken you 45min to do the speed limit, therefor you were speeding, and they can ticket you.....

Logandiagnostic
01-02-04, 01:07 AM
Since that post. We have decided to use a new server. Much better graphics, links, images, etc.

It was easier to start a new site name then to transfer all the data. So...now there are 2 sister sites for the recorded airbag data. The new site is-

www.airbagcrash.com

Logan

DaveSmed
01-02-04, 01:15 AM
This is a situation where the car has some type of impact, but no deployment. Its a hard enough impact to where the 'SDM' wakes up and starts recording data.
How hard? I'm guessing the safing sensor would need to be tripped.

Logandiagnostic
01-02-04, 02:13 AM
There are 2 modes of recorded data. Near deployment and deployment. Near deployment is the module wakining up to a 'near' airbag deployment event. IF...deployment happens....the last 5 seconds of vehicle data is recorded and stored in the SDM. If the airbags have deployed the SDM must be replaced.

The only way to get the stored data is with one of these Vetronix CDR modules.

Logan