: Cross-Drilled (GM) Rotors now Available



ssmith100
08-31-05, 04:56 PM
Just thought I would let you guys know that the cross drilled rotors are available from GM now. Mine should be arriving in the next couple of days.

Part Numbers:
88964607 Front cross drilled rotors ($280.00 to $300.00 per pair)

88964608 Rear cross drilled rotors ($280.00 to $300.00 per pair)

Shane

CVP33
08-31-05, 04:58 PM
$294 GM Parts direct.

Geno
08-31-05, 06:52 PM
Thanks for the post Shane.:)

Texan V
08-31-05, 07:16 PM
Is it just me or is GM parts direct still not showing the fronts p/n 88964607?


all I see is the rears listed 88964608 same as a week ago...

I'd be glad to hear how it runs out for you. I really don't want to have to order through my dealer as they are wanting 350 a set. Only about a hundred bucks difference, but if I can order them online myself and save a C note...

odysseus
08-31-05, 07:36 PM
Remember, though, GMPD charges about 17% additional for S/H. That will bring it closer to the dealer price. They usually take about 3 weeks to ship, since they're a dealer middleman. They don't stock parts, but order them from GM at a discount. (They are Flow Chevrolet in NC)

ssmith100
08-31-05, 07:37 PM
Texan V,

Let me see what the wife's parts dept will do for you. I'm getting them for less than the 280.00 per pair. I'll let you know tommorow. I'm pretty sure they can do under 300.00 per pair. I'm only about 40 minutes from you.

Shane

Ross Racing
09-01-05, 01:49 AM
Are they 14" OE rotors?

I just checked GMparts direct and the fronts are still not listed.

RobertCTS
09-01-05, 07:20 AM
Have they been cryo treated? Those are the economy Brembo rotors and after drilling and slotting they've been weakened. The cryo treatment bring them back up to snuff. I paid about $600 for my four cryo treated Brembo rotors. The Hats were also epoxy painted. That OEM gray paint lasts about 6 months. I bought mine at Cadillac Motorsports.

Flyboy
09-01-05, 07:32 AM
I have REALLY stupid question......I think the brakes are PERFECT now. Why change?

V-seriesTech
09-01-05, 07:48 AM
I have REALLY stupid question......I think the brakes are PERFECT now. Why change?


JIM BOB....as you know,..there is always room for improvement,...and whats good, can always be great...for example, your stock cam,..versus that sexy cam you have in the car now...

...same thing, different part. The V brakes are nice, ... but the drill holes, or slots in rotors help to keep the brake rotors/pads cool(er) , plus help dispense the gases,....therefore giving LESS brake fade.

You may not experience ANY fade now but,...given several minutes of hard, repetive stops, or hard brakes....the slotted/drilled rotors would only perform better, longer.

cool beans. :devil:

ssmith100
09-01-05, 08:35 AM
Mine are going out for powdercoating (hats and fins) as soon as they get here. Finally found someone who does a good job.

Shane

BowenCT
09-01-05, 08:48 AM
I have REALLY stupid question......I think the brakes are PERFECT now. Why change?

Cause they look cool.

SBONES
09-01-05, 09:08 AM
the one set of #s isnt showing up...?...ive been waiting for these for 6 months now...

RobertCTS
09-01-05, 09:19 AM
Mine are going out for powdercoating (hats and fins) as soon as they get here. Finally found someone who does a good job.

Shane

If you want to spend your money wisely get them cryro treated too. Cracked & warped rotors suck!

I did it for looks as I'm a somewhat conservative driver..but I knew from research that I was weakening the rotors..thus the rotors spent a day in the cryro tanks to harden them up. Witness this photo.:eek:

http://reganrotaryracing.tripod.com/rtrcrak3.jpg
http://www.99pline.com/images/cracked_rotorSM.jpg

Barak
09-01-05, 11:29 AM
The V brakes are nice, ... but the drill holes, or slots in rotors help to keep the brake rotors/pads cool(er) , plus help dispense the gases,....therefore giving LESS brake fade.

I'm willing to bet there will more brake fade with these rotors. Beware also that pad life will be shorter with drilled/slotted rotors. Bottom line is that they just look cool. Don't expect any performance increase.

V-seriesTech
09-01-05, 11:42 AM
I'm willing to bet there will more brake fade with these rotors. Beware also that pad life will be shorter with drilled/slotted rotors. Bottom line is that they just look cool. Don't expect any performance increase.

The wear quicker?....For sure, no doubt.

Will the "average driver" feel the difference on the street?.....no, probably not.


As far as not being better in performance,..I think 8 out of 10 racing teams across the world, would disagree.

RobertCTS
09-01-05, 12:51 PM
The wear quicker?....For sure, no doubt.

Will the "average driver" feel the difference on the street?.....no, probably not.


As far as not being better in performance,..I think 8 out of 10 racing teams across the world, would disagree.

Yep, all the NASCAR racers have them. Their brakes get so hot they actually glow red. Seen one explode once on the track.:eek:

Barak
09-01-05, 01:23 PM
As far as not being better in performance,..I think 8 out of 10 racing teams across the world, would disagree.

The brake rotor to drill/slot or not to drill/slot is probably the quintessential car forum argument. Every other forum has gone through this a million times and a consensus is never reached. But for the record, I can't see how taking material out of a heat sink makes it a better heat sink. In fact the likelihood of rotor warpage, cracking, glazing, etc. increases with every less gram of material. Drilling/slotting also reduces the swept area making the brakes less effective. There may be some advantage to slotting for degassing purposes, but degassing isn't an issue unless you are on the track. And if you go to tirerack.com there is a big warning regarding the use of drilled/slotted rotors on the track.

RobertCTS
09-01-05, 01:51 PM
But then you have to ask yourself why do just about all forms of competive driving uses drill/slotted rotors? Why does Porsche use them and why is GM offering them. Even BMW uses them.

http://www.cmgonline.com/bikes/models/BMW/K1200S/2005/launch/BigP/front_brake_bg.jpg

V-seriesTech
09-01-05, 01:53 PM
The brake rotor to drill/slot or not to drill/slot is probably the quintessential car forum argument. Every other forum has gone through this a million times and a consensus is never reached. But for the record, I can't see how taking material out of a heat sink makes it a better heat sink. In fact the likelihood of rotor warpage, cracking, glazing, etc. increases with every less gram of material. Drilling/slotting also reduces the swept area making the brakes less effective. There may be some advantage to slotting for degassing purposes, but degassing isn't an issue unless you are on the track. And if you go to tirerack.com there is a big warning regarding the use of drilled/slotted rotors on the track.


I hear you. Doesn't mean anything but,..i've been going with my pop to roadracing events for as long as I remember cars,...they have all, to this day, have slotted rotors. I don't belive drilled is the number one way to go, due to the possibility of cracking, which I have seen on street cars. Which, ironicly, I have my cousins Trans am with drilled rotors, and most of the drill holes have small spider cracks on them. I have slotted, and drilled rotors.

The main reason for the slots, is to help get rid of the gasses. My buddy here at work, is points leader in his class,...he road races, autocrosses,..and has been doing it for years.. God forbid if I say something about slotted rotors being a scam,....I would be shot, not from him but, by myself, cause I would be in the hot seat getting a history lesson about why they work,....how they work....etc etc.

Trust me, there is a reason race cars have them. Yeah, maybe its a better track tool but, for someone like myself,..I drive hard,...i'll get the best I can afford(which isn't a whole lot).

RobertCTS
09-01-05, 02:23 PM
Usually the ones that crack were improperly done or cheap Ccast rotors from China. I'm telling you you also need to cryo treat the rotors. It compresses the molecules in hte metal and makes them much stronger. By the way don't buy those cheap chinese $200 rotors you see on Ebay.

http://reganrotaryracing.tripod.com/rtrcrak3.jpg

crispyrx7
11-28-05, 12:18 PM
But then you have to ask yourself why do just about all forms of competive driving uses drill/slotted rotors? Why does Porsche use them and why is GM offering them. Even BMW uses them.

http://www.cmgonline.com/bikes/models/BMW/K1200S/2005/launch/BigP/front_brake_bg.jpg

Back from the dead...

Question: why do racing cars use slotted/drilled rotors?
Answer: several considerations, 1) less weight, 2) disposability of rotors, note that endurance racers often will change rotors several times during a 24hr race if using cast iron rotors and 3) the trend is to NOT use drilled rotors but to use the slotted rotors instead. And even then they will crack too is overworked and/or undercooled. How do I know...I've done it!

Question: Why does Porsche use slotted rotors?
Answer: 1) for the looks (really), but more importantly 2) beacuse the process they use thier disc is different. thier holes are **CAST** into the rotors not *drilled* into regular blanks. This creates less stress risers and makes for a more robust disc. However, even the Porsche rotors crack...just like all the other X drilled rotors.

Question: even BMW?
Answer: No they don't. See any factory BMW street cars with drilled rotors? No. Your example of motorcyles using drilled rotors is comparing apples to oranges. Motorcyles are much lighter therefore brakes generate less heat. Motorcycle brakes are better cooled - hanging right out in the airflow. Motorcycles principle concern is weight and hence the drilled - moreso perforated - rotors. And motorcyles are by design "overbraked" anyways being more tire limited when it comes to grip than most any performance car.

And in general I would debate the pros of drilled rotors: better cooling, lighterweight, better gas removal. But as someone mentioned the topic has already beat to death.

But I do like the *LOOK* of the drilled rotors and personally would consider them for my V :)
Crispy

RobertCTS
11-28-05, 01:27 PM
Back from the dead...

Question: why do racing cars use slotted/drilled rotors?
Answer: several considerations, 1) less weight, 2) disposability of rotors, note that endurance racers often will change rotors several times during a 24hr race if using cast iron rotors and 3) the trend is to NOT use drilled rotors but to use the slotted rotors instead. And even then they will crack too is overworked and/or undercooled. How do I know...I've done it!

Question: Why does Porsche use slotted rotors?
Answer: 1) for the looks (really), but more importantly 2) beacuse the process they use thier disc is different. thier holes are **CAST** into the rotors not *drilled* into regular blanks. This creates less stress risers and makes for a more robust disc. However, even the Porsche rotors crack...just like all the other X drilled rotors.

Question: even BMW?
Answer: No they don't. See any factory BMW street cars with drilled rotors? No. Your example of motorcyles using drilled rotors is comparing apples to oranges. Motorcyles are much lighter therefore brakes generate less heat. Motorcycle brakes are better cooled - hanging right out in the airflow. Motorcycles principle concern is weight and hence the drilled - moreso perforated - rotors. And motorcyles are by design "overbraked" anyways being more tire limited when it comes to grip than most any performance car.

And in general I would debate the pros of drilled rotors: better cooling, lighterweight, better gas removal. But as someone mentioned the topic has already beat to death.

But I do like the *LOOK* of the drilled rotors and personally would consider them for my V :)
Crispy

Actually I did it for looks too but I wanted a quality product that wasn't prone to cracks

thebigjimsho
11-28-05, 10:43 PM
I think slotted looks better than cross-drilled personally.

lasstss
11-28-05, 11:05 PM
Its all purely looks. The new pads dont off gass anymore, thats the old days. If nothing else, the slots keep the pads clear.

thebigjimsho
11-28-05, 11:18 PM
If people want slotted rotors, give a call to TCE. He slotted a set for my SHO a few years back. He may not want the grunt work but may be able to steer you in the right direction.

Dave's V
11-28-05, 11:53 PM
I like the looks of drilled rotors but like someone said, the V's brakes are perfect. Now the rear dif and 3 year old Nav disk is a different story.

pietroraimondi
11-29-05, 01:46 AM
First and foremost; make a decision as to whether you want your rotors cross drilled or slotted. In reality; doing both to the same one piece rotor serves no additional purpose other than "street fashion looks".

Gas slotting the rotor provides the benefit of deglazing the firepath of the rotor and helping to reduce brake fade under repeated hard braking where the build up of brake glaze is of an issue. Gas slotting is also very aggressive on the brake pad material as well and is typically reserved for track only applications to keep the rotor fire-path clean.

Cross drilling the rotor helps reduce the weight mass of the rotor (unsprung weight) and is far more beneficial with regard to reducing brake fade than gas slotting and is not as aggressive on your brake pad material in the rotors fire path.

Cross drilled rotors are typically seen on street vehicles and limited track applications and will only be used on track (NASCAR TYPE) vehicles for "qualifying purposes" where every ounce of weight is an issue and will then revert back to a gas slotted rotor.

When cross drilling a rotor, there is no question that you are compromising the porosity and integrity of the rotor as you are removing thermal mass from the rotors fire path. To compensate for this, it is imperative that the rotor disc be made of a long grain ductile iron and not gravity cast iron as the current Brembo cross drilled rotors are. That is why Brembo offers you no guarantee against rotor cracking or warping as the rotor has been compromised and it has not been treated. You are in effect being told "up front", your buying a defective product!

It is also imperative that the porosity of the cross-drilled rotors integrity be restored by cryogenically treating the rotor and thermal heat tempering it to close the molecular structure of the metal alloy.

I would also suggest that you NEVER powder coat a one piece rotor unless you are using a ceramic based epoxy industrial powder coat which is only available in about 3 colors and have a professional who knows what they are doing apply it. Cadmium or Nickel plating is the ideal plating material in lieu of traditional powder coating on a one piece rotor as the powder coating does not expand and contract at the same ambient temperature as the rest of the one piece rotor disc which causes all kinds of problems with regard to warping and cracking of the rotor disc.

What happens is that the powder coated rotor hub acts as a heat sink and will ultimately cause your rotor discs to overheat beginning with your center wheel bearings and defeating the purpose of the internal directional vanes that are designed to cool the rotor hub that you have now "sealed" with powder coat.

We custom build one piece and two piece CTSV rotors that are constructed of long grain ductile iron that is forged at 6000 pounds per inch versus the gravity poured cast iron rotors offered by GM from Brembo.

Our rotors have a proprietary directional vane pattern that is internally extrude honed that increases RWHP and torque by approximately 1.8%.

Our rotors are deep cryogenically treated to minus 300 degrees below zero and then heat tempered to plus 500 degrees which in effect extends the life expectancy of the rotor by 400% and will more than likely be the last set of rotors you'll ever purchase. Each rotor is directionally surfaced and mill balanced before it leaves our facility.

Finally, all of our rotors (one piece and two piece)are triple nickel plated for rust prevention.

Our two piece rotors utilize anodized sold billet aerospace billet aluminum hats ( multiple color choices) with solid titanium hardware and weigh approximately 9 pounds less per rotor than the one piece versions.

If you have any interest in learning more about a true quality set of custom big brake rotors for your CTS or CTSV, please feel free to contact us at:

sales@cadillacmotorsports.com (sales@cadillacmotorsports.com)

best regards:

Pietro J. Raimondi, Jr.
Cadillac MotorSports, Limited
sales@cadillacmotorsports.com

RobertCTS
11-29-05, 05:09 AM
I was after the street bling look but wanted a quality and safe rotor. I bought mine from Pietro(Pete)[

http://usera.imagecave.com/BobsWork/CADDYCAP-1.jpg

Todd TCE
12-13-05, 12:24 PM
2) beacuse the process they use thier disc is different. thier holes are **CAST** into the rotors not *drilled* into regular blanks.

Extensive research on this says that's total internet BS. Makes for good reading however. They're drilled like all the others. The castings do offer a radial casting around the hole on part of it which should prolong its life. But..I've personally picked up the pieces of them off the track at Road Atlanta.

What makes them 'all that' on the Porsche? Whould you buy the 90K car without them? Probably not. The other thing sooo often overlooked is that the weight distribution of a mid or rear engine car is so superior to the nose heavy American sedan that they CAN get away with it.

Paul@Dezod
12-13-05, 01:22 PM
One thing to be aware of with a drilled rotor. No matter who the manufacturer is the can not guarantee it will not crack. Drilling does compromise the integrity of the rotor to an extent. Drilled are great for helping to release the gases that build from the certain really high temp braking scenarios and high friction coefficient pads. Circuit, road or drag racing it might be ideal. Other than that, not worth it.

A slotted and drilled rotor decreases too much active braking surface. Not worth it IMO. I had them at point, but no real difference in performance over a slotted rotor.

Slotting? Helps with an inital bite, but after that, no real good. Had tons over time, and they are ok until the slots wear off.

Conclusion: Buy a good rotor, have it cadmium plated or zinc coated or whatever to prevent corosion. Then select a good pad that suits your needs and call it a day.

crispyrx7
12-14-05, 09:17 AM
Extensive research on this says that's total internet BS. Makes for good reading however. They're drilled like all the others. The castings do offer a radial casting around the hole on part of it which should prolong its life. But..I've personally picked up the pieces of them off the track at Road Atlanta.


You are correct. I mispoke. What I recalled (incorrectly as it'd been a while since I read about it) was that several manufacturers offer MMC (metal matrix composite) cross drilled rotors that have the holes cast into them. Porsche being one of the manufacturers that has cars that can be fitted with cross drilled MMC rotors.



What makes them 'all that' on the Porsche? Whould you buy the 90K car without them? Probably not.


I don't buy Porsches ;)


The other thing sooo often overlooked is that the weight distribution of a mid or rear engine car is so superior to the nose heavy American sedan that they CAN get away with it.

By assuming get away ("it") with running xdrilled rotors, I disagree. By your own admission above even on Porsches they can't. Kinetic energy is kinetic energy. The only way to shed the energy is through dissipation of the energy through heat from braking. Keep the brakes cool by finding a way to shed the heat, and quickly, and it matters not if the car is heavy as a whole and/or nose heavy. As for stopping distances THIS is where weight bias counts.
Apples and oranges.
Regards,
Crispy

Rey
12-14-05, 10:46 AM
In my opinion, if you are racing or autocross then you need to be concerned about using the best technology available, and the answer is simple - use what the Cadillac race teams use.
I typically get 80K miles from rear pads and 50K from fronts. For my purposes, slots or drilled holes are basically "driveway jewelry".
As for whether drilled rotors reduce mass, yes they do, but at the same time they increase ventilation. Which run cooler?
I will not accept drilled rotors whose holes are not champered to relieve stress. In fact, I have champered the holes myself in one instance with aftermarket motorcycle rotors.
As for cheep drilled rotors, I replaced the very expensive stock rotors on my Infiniti Q45 (a heavy car) with NAPA rotors which were drilled and cheep. Drove the car another 100K miles (mostly highway) on these rotors with no worries.

RobertCTS
12-14-05, 11:03 AM
My take is a lot of us go with the slotted/drilled rotors for the looks. With the right set of wheels, painted calipers this can really set a car off. Here's mine.

http://usera.imagecave.com/BobsWork/CADDYCAP-2.jpg

Todd TCE
12-14-05, 04:45 PM
Kinetic energy is kinetic energy. The only way to shed the energy is through dissipation of the energy through heat from braking. Keep the brakes cool by finding a way to shed the heat, and quickly, and it matters not if the car is heavy as a whole and/or nose heavy. As for stopping distances THIS is where weight bias counts.

Agreed, except that four wheels will out stop two. With internal proportioning the rear wheels of any front engine car are all but along for the ride. With the mid/rear engine design the rears can contribute more effectively to the total output of the system.

It's all good never the less. Great internet rumor! Still got the money in my pocket as nobody has been able to prove this one.




In my opinion, if you are racing or autocross then you need to be concerned about using the best technology available, and the answer is simple - use what the Cadillac race teams use.

That's fine. If you have their budget to do so. I run drilled rotors in fact on my own race car for the weight reduction. Difference is that a race vehicle gets parts replaced when in doubt. The street vehidle gets parts replaced when they break. I'd urge anyone who plans on any serious open track use to simply weigh the pros and cons in the application you intend to use a vehicle in. Also on the 'pro' side is that of course many of these rotors are much larger than rotors of old (and probably some race cars) so the capacity of the rotor is greater than the requirements placed on them now. Clearly a 14" rotor has far more effectiveness and reserve than a 12".

04CTSVFLA
12-14-05, 04:54 PM
why not just get the stock rotors cross drilled and/or slotted? Wouldnt that be cheaper yet just as good?

RobertCTS
12-14-05, 04:57 PM
why not just get the stock rotors cross drilled and/or slotted? Wouldnt that be cheaper yet just as good?

Zactly what I did. I had Cadillac MotorSports drill & slot and cryo treat them.
6 months later with no problems. They still look great.

Todd TCE
12-14-05, 10:01 PM
why not just get the stock rotors cross drilled and/or slotted? Wouldnt that be cheaper yet just as good?

Because other than appearance the brake system is not altered.

Aside from being a few ounces lighter and perhaps aiding in pad wiping there's no gain to this at all. Doesn't matter who's name is on it the same physics apply. Or what car it's on. *Not like this is breaking ground here.

Some will argue the loss of performance. I won't debate that at average user speeds and use. For street use the drilling and such isn't likely to do any harm.

So what makes everyone jump up and down about these changes? Three things; 1. Nobody likes to admit they bought something that's not really any better, 2. Most changes do (or should, hint-hint) come with pads. The pads DO change things, it's call the Cf or coefficient of friction. 3. Most folks who "finally bite the bullet" and buy them are usually so tired of their worn out 20k rotors that if they sold you a pie pan it would be better.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not down on drilled stock rotors. But I didn't invent the math and how it works. More over I didn't ask the question! lol I'm just giving you factual answer.


If it looks good, feels good and you like it...that's all that matters. Not what I say or anyone else.

pietroraimondi
12-16-05, 06:22 AM
Todd from TCE is absolutely correct on two points:
On a FWD "American Car" with regard to brake bias, the rear braking system is pretty much along just for the ride. If you don't believe in the concept of "roll center or center of gravity"; hop on a Harley Davidson motorcycle and try the following experiment:

Roll on the throttle to approx 30 mph and don't touch that damn front brake handle and then stomp down on the rear brake pedal.

$250 in my pocket tells me that you lock the rear wheel rotor and your ass is on the pavement. And that is based on a 650 pound motorcycle with the lowest center of gravity known to mankind. Now try that same experiment on an American FWD vehicle.

Like Todd said; the rear brakes are along for the ride and it's the front braking system that's providing most all of the stopping or clamping force. Todd didn't invent the "math, physics or laws of inertia"; that's just the way it is unless you believe the world is flat; and if that;s your belief than "God Bless You", as your truly on your own panet.

So, ultimately if your goal is going to build RWHP and torque on your CTS vehicle; you better find a way to control it and bring it to a stop with a minimum of brake fade based on your driving applications; whether it be spirited street driving and limited track applications or outright road/track racing.

And to all of those with "certain ahem size complexes"; I'm sorry to say that "bigger is better" in this regard and 14/15" brake rotors and 4/6/8 piston staggered bore front brake calipers do a far better job on the "physics side" of proving that mathematical equation of bringing that RWHP beast to a stop.

You can cross drill it, gas slot it, cryo treat it and then all you will eventually do is "cry over it" when they pick your teeth out of the dashboard because there was not enough thermal mass with regard to the size of the brake rotor disc, nor the clamping or stopping force of the brake caliper and finally the proper brake pad material selection to safely stop that horsepower built vehicle under hot, heavy and repeated braking applications that in fact are the very proximate cause of brake fade.

Cross-drilling "helps" with the reduction of brake fade by reducing outgassing......period.

Gas-slotting provides assistance in deglazing the brake rotors disc surface from the build up of epoxy materials that adhere to the rotors fire path from the heat build up and the break down of the materials that comprise the brake caliper pads......period.

Neither of the above applications involving cross drilling or gas slotting or thermal treating an "undersized" 11.9" front brake rotor disc is going to provide the thermal mass that is properly engineered into a directionally vaned 14" brake rotor disc and proper staggered bore piston brake caliper and matching brake pad that will provide the safe and proper stopping distance of a 350 RWHP CTS versus a stock 210 RWHP version. It's just not possible!

It is true that allot of folks apply these applications of cross-drilling and gas slotting purely for "looks & appearance" without any regard to the mathematical properties of what the intended purpose of a brake system truly is; and that is stopping the car!

That's just the way it is!

And with regard to Porsche's "cast-in" cross drilled holes, my money says that Todd will take that "bet money" with him to the grave; because NO ROTOR MANUFACTURER in the world casts cross drilled holes into there rotors. They are machined in......period!

Now maybe somebody in CHINA does "cast them in" for $179 for a set of 4 and that is what you find on eBay, but certainly not from any reputable brake manufacturer.

Todd, we should look into that.....(lol).

The bottom line is that both Todd and I have always agreed upon are the following facts regarding brake systems:

You must start with a quality product to begin with. And that is usually a properly sized directionally vaned rotor blank.

You can cross drill it, gas slot it, cryogenically treat it and heat temper it to minimize the alloys porosity to minimize the chance of the rotor cracking or warping.

You can extrude hone and isotropic finish the directional vanes to even create additional RWHP!

You can zinc, cadmium and/or nickel plate it to enhance it's appearance and reduce the chance of rust formation on the areas not swept by the brake caliper pads fire-path and that's about it with regard to plating.

But with regard to the selection of proper rotor disc size, number of directional vanes, caliper type and number of staggered bore pistons and pad selection; is just as relative by example as trying to put a size 8 shoe on a size 10 foot.

You might be able to squeeze your size 10 foot into that "on sale gotta have it" size 8 shoe; but damn is there a painful price to pay when you go for a walk!

The facts are the following:

You MUST have the properly sized rotor disc and caliper system to bring that vehicles weight to a safe stop on a constant and repeated basis.

And as Todd said; he's picked up the pieces off the track.

I just hope that track isn't some public highway where an innocent motorist suffered the consequences of your choice based on "looks" rather than application if in fact you are a "spirited road driver" and that undersized OEM rotor and caliper system fails.

Remember that the 11.9" OEM CTS brake and front 2 piston PBR brake caliper rotor is rated for 255 BHP; not 350 BHP.

And you need to remember that when your building horsepower and fail to build your braking system; your otherwise building a house on a foundation made of quicksand.

So you can take that OEM brake rotor disc and cryo it, drill and slot it to death and what you have done is nothing more than polished an OEM sized rotor for an engine that has been built outside the parameters of the OEM braking system.

BIG BRAKES (14, 15, 16" ROTORS) ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR LOOKS.......THEY ARE ENGINEERED TO STOP THE VEHICLE IN RELATION TO IT'S HP AND AND APPLICATION!

Cryogenically and thermal heat treating brake rotors decreases the porosity of the rotors alloy when brake rotor material is removed from cross drilling and gas slotting.

Plating inhibits rust formation.

And finally; proper proper brake caliper selection with regard to piston bore size, number of staggered pistons and the overall engineering of the brake caliper ( 2 piece versus monobloc) all contribute in minimimizing brake pad wear and caliper deflection (loss of contact with the rotors fire-path) under heavy repeated braking.

Like Todd said before; he didn't write the math; he's just telling you like it is and I'm just repeating the obvious.

Well said Todd & Merry Christmas to all at TCE!

best regards as always: Pete Raimondi
Cadillac MotorSports, Ltd.
sales@cadillacmotorsports.com (sales@cadillacmotorsports.com)

Custom builders of the only proprietary directional sport vane 14" One piece and Two Piece Big Brake Kits for the Cadillac CTS 3.2 and 3.6 Platform. Available now for both the front and rear of your 5x115 bolt Cadillac CTS

Custom builders of the only proprietary directional vane Front and Rear 14" 2 Piece Big Brake Rotor Kits for the Cadillac CTSV.

We also feature AP Racing, Brembo and Wilwood Brake Calipers in 4/6/8 piston caliper configurations.

Custom stainless steel brake lines and our proprietary long thread Kevlar/Ceramic brake pads for spirited road driving and track applications.

Todd TCE
12-16-05, 11:56 AM
I faiiled to mention that regardless of my personal preference on drilled rotors, Pete appears to be going the extra mile by providing you with a quality blank and the cryo treatment to aide in the life of the part. If you're going to do it at least he's making the effort to do it to the best of his ability. Well done.