: Well????? How Did Gm Meeting Go????



Florian
08-29-05, 09:05 PM
Whats the poop? Fess up, were all interested.


F

GT04CTS-V
08-29-05, 09:12 PM
Yeah - Pony up - What the scoop??????

CVP33
08-29-05, 09:41 PM
We selected Marty as our point person. Funny choice of words though......"poop". I believe I said that right after the call finished.

lasstss
08-29-05, 09:43 PM
In a word, Slow. it was Stealth, myself, Benjet,CVP33, lawfive. I was the least eloquent. . Lawfive hosted us on a simultaneous conference call (thanks Law). With the lag of the forum and one hour to speak and 8-9 people it was difficult. No definitive answer on the diff other than to say its upgraded for the 2006 model year and due in the fall of the same. A lot of party line comments, no definitive answers. Unfortunate... we did learn that there will be no warranty claim honored on a S/C car relative to the driveline. No surprise there. They were all cordial as expected but little info was given. We were offered another forum tbd.
The GM Participants included Dave Leone (Chief Engineer), JohnHeinricy (GM Performance Division Engineering), Bill Mack (Cadillac ProductManager), and Maureen Bickford (Cadillac Marketing).
Thats all folks! :hmm:

StealthV
08-29-05, 09:47 PM
To add to what Lasstss listed -

Unless it is an official GM accessory, aftermarket parts *may* void the warranty and is handled on a case by case basis: condition of the vehicle, usage, maintenance records, etc.

We discussed painful service visits, lack of dealer knowledge of the V, etc.

With only an hour; the plate was full and not much time to cover all the topics in depth. The door was left open for future communications. The V Team @ GM wants us all to be happy.

CVP33
08-29-05, 09:57 PM
Good news:

1) 2006 rear diff' unit is in fact beefed up and is the same as the STS-V's.
2) Any rear failures occuring in late fall will be replaced with the new '06 unit.
3) Another call was agreed to to address ALL our concerns with an eye toward solutions.

There really is no bad news per se. We outlined our concerns specifically and succinctly and I was very proud of our TEAM. However many of our difficult questions were not answered in a straight forward manner. Again no surprise. I didn't expect anyone in the group to step up and admit that the getrag unit was under-engineered. What we were able to do is open up a channel for dialog at the highest level of Cadillac. The commitment was made that "they" wanted to ensure that we V owners were happy and satisfied. I think the "feeling out" portion of engagement has now been satisfied and we've come to the point where we need to tell them what we want.

Rick, Martin, Jerry and Ben did an excellent job.

DILLIGAF
08-29-05, 10:01 PM
Are you guys going to do this again?I know it's asking alot but are any of you going to list some of the questions or comments made?I was not expecting to much out of GM due to the way they have treated us lately.Thanks again guys,You have went above and beyond here.I'm convinced you were are best foot forward.I believe the aftermarket is waiting to see if GM is gonna build a better diff for us.We'll fix these cars somehow.

Staxxin
08-29-05, 10:04 PM
Great Job Guys!!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

CVP33 - RE: rear diff, you say any rear failures occuring late fall with be replaced with the "06" unit. Is that late fall of "05" this will begin (Oct/Nov)?

Thanks!!!

CVP33
08-29-05, 10:05 PM
Great Job Guys!!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

CVP33 - RE: rear diff, you say any rear failures occuring late fall with be replaced with the "06" unit. Is that late fall of "05" this will begin (Oct/Nov)?

Thanks!!!

Yes. That's what we were told. Details were scarce but we do know the HP/TQ numbers of the STS-V and my hope is that's enough to handle a CTS-V with a few mod's.

Staxxin
08-29-05, 10:08 PM
Great news.... Thanks again!!!

homer403
08-29-05, 10:17 PM
Marty, what did they say about the dealers/service departments where their clueless? I hope you guys said that there are good ones out there too.

lawfive
08-29-05, 10:18 PM
The '06 STS-V (469 HP/438 torque) is gonna get an upgraded diff that's also going to be standard on the '06 CTS-V. It's also going to be the only diff in the Caddy supply chain after a while. Which means that after the 2006 models have been built, and the current service inventory of 645 Getrags has been depleted, warranty fixes should include the new diff.

Luna.
08-29-05, 10:20 PM
What do '04 and '05 maggie owners do then insofar as getting an '06 rear-end installed? Wait until the '04/'05 unit fails, get declined warranty coverage, and pay for the '06 unit?

UGH...

lawfive
08-29-05, 10:29 PM
Luna, you know better. You play, you pay. Me, too.

wildwhl
08-29-05, 10:29 PM
Thank you guys for the hard work. It is greatly appreciated by all here.

IF my diff fails - I'll have to simply say that is 3 and the first two were on a stock car, blah, blah, blah...or just pony up and buy one I suppose. We'll see if it fails first. Something tells me that this one is "blessed", or StealthV hid some sort of magic diff saver map inside my tune :)

Again, thanks, and please keep us informed of future forum plans/results.

WW

BowenCT
08-29-05, 10:31 PM
First I want to say a big "thank-you" to Rick, Martin, Jerry, Ben and Chris.

Question, did the GM folks mention anything about this Forum? That they read it? That they even know it exists? Just curious. Secondly, was the conversation recorded?

-MB

wildwhl
08-29-05, 10:34 PM
BowenCT

Good questions.

ace996
08-29-05, 10:36 PM
Anyone ask Heinricy how the 4.6 sec 0-60 was done? Also, do they see this vehicle as one that can take track days/ autocrosses or is it still a luxury car with a big motor and FG2 'Ring shocks that are for show????

Thanks fellas...the new diff info has slowed down my LemonLaw lust. Hey, who brought up the Maggie issue?? ANY power adder is going to throw the car into a realm of "not designed to handle" and warrantee will not apply to drivetrain. Sure, your nav/radio warrantee will still be in effect...but don't expect a clutch to be replaced with engine mods.

Overall, sounds like a good thing. I hope that you all have an ability to follow-up with them in the future. Good job.
Ve good,
ace996

BliTzer
08-29-05, 10:37 PM
Try to get a warranty as i did.. You maggie owners knew this, as i did.. yes it costed me, it is a in house warranty.. Just pay, or discuss the option thru your dealer...

MY DEALER IS THE ONE THAT TOLD Me about the maggie, installed the maggie, offered the warranty at X amount of $$$$ over a 2, or 3, or 4 year option plan... this includes coverage of the maggie, & driveline...
I would have a sit down with there warranty group within your dealer and have a discussion...

So far i have been lucky, all is ok... diff is ok, maggie has hit wot many many times... you seen the pics of my diff... they are stilled posted, looks still new.. if it pops, hey it pops... until then, im driving it like it should be drivin, & no less... dont be scared.. upgrade your warranty, relax & drive it like you stole it... then if it fails, you are ok..

later blitzer

Luna.
08-29-05, 10:44 PM
Luna, you know better. You play, you pay. Me, too.

Yeah, but reading this thread has me thinking of vastly different strategies...


Try to get a warranty as i did.. You maggie owners knew this, as i did.. yes it costed me, it is a in house warranty.. Just pay, or discuss the option thru your dealer...

MY DEALER IS THE ONE THAT TOLD Me about the maggie, installed the maggie, offered the warranty at X amount of $$$$ over a 2, or 3, or 4 year option plan... this includes coverage of the maggie, & driveline...
I would have a sit down with there warranty group within your dealer and have a discussion...

So far i have been lucky, all is ok... diff is ok, maggie has hit wot many many times... you seen the pics of my diff... they are stilled posted, looks still new.. if it pops, hey it pops... until then, im driving it like it should be drivin, & no less... dont be scared.. upgrade your warranty, relax & drive it like you stole it... then if it fails, you are ok..

later blitzer

Funny you should say that--I plan on having a lengthy discussion tomorrow with my dealer.

lasstss
08-29-05, 10:47 PM
All questions were asked or submitted in writing. It was too tenuous to get fast answers. I think these individuals were not collective and responding from different locations.
Want to see something? Take a look at the snout on this peice... look familiar? Can you say Pacifica?

lawfive
08-29-05, 10:47 PM
Question, did the GM folks mention anything about this Forum? That they read it? That they even know it exists? Just curious.

Negative.



Secondly, was the conversation recorded?-MB

Maybe...


Anyone ask Heinricy how the 4.6 sec 0-60 was done?

Yep, but no joy.


Hey, who brought up the Maggie issue??

:lildevil:

markbinkc
08-29-05, 10:48 PM
Guess I'll just go ahead and get a Maggie and put 2K in my top drawer and wait for mine to grenade. That ought to put me at about in that time frame. Thanks fellas, for your diligence.

Mark

lasstss
08-29-05, 10:50 PM
FLYBOY new Diff big torque..

Whats the secret woid?? Were ready...

keeksv
08-29-05, 10:51 PM
Anyone bring up driveline issues in the CTS and SRX?

Luna.
08-29-05, 10:58 PM
Guess I'll just go ahead and get a Maggie and put 2K in my top drawer and wait for mine to grenade. That ought to put me at about in that time frame. Thanks fellas, for your diligence.

Mark

That brings up a good question--what is the expected price of an '06 differential expected to cost (installation would vary, but estimates should be possible)?

Flyboy
08-29-05, 11:00 PM
Marty,

I'm calling him on the "land-line" tomorrow.

Good job to all of you guys who participated today.....Thanks a bunch.

Florian
08-29-05, 11:04 PM
To the fellas of TEAM CADDY FORUM;

First, great job. Thank you for your time! You had a "top-of-the-food-chain" audience to state our case to. I hope they listened. Sounds like the V will get some relief after all in the form of a beefier rear end. Next session is an apparant done deal. Maybe we could help pony up some Q's/suggestions/potential implementations for our current 04-05Vs that they may honor retroactively. Im glad they listened. Im glad we were heard.

This is a good thing.


F

wildwhl
08-29-05, 11:04 PM
FLYBOY new Diff big torque..

Whats the secret woid?? Were ready...

I'm confused...please explain :hmm:

ssmith100
08-29-05, 11:08 PM
Great job guys. You should all be commended.:worship: Now if we could just get a part number:lildevil:

SHane

CVP33
08-29-05, 11:13 PM
Great job guys. You should all be commended.:worship: Now if we could just get a part number:lildevil:

SHane

That's funny. I was tempted to ask the same thing when the GM group spoke about the '06 rear diff' unit. Reality is none of them would have that part # and more sobering still is the wait until fall. My hope is that my warranty remains in tact and my rear diff' decides on it's own to crap out in say OCT/NOV.

ace996
08-29-05, 11:18 PM
Having a nice, calm conversation with the current differential should open the door to a proper breakup. Explain that its not her, its you..and that you just don't want to hurt her anymore. To avoid any catastrophic long-term emotional damage, she should move out...she'll be better in the long run. Should this not lead to a mutual split, kick her out...with the right foot.

ssmith100
08-29-05, 11:19 PM
CVP33,

I'm finally starting to hear some rumbling form my rear end also. 18,000 miles and she has never been a problem, Starting with noise and now getting vibrations. I was basically told by some one up in the food chain to "Break it" and we will replace it. Guess I could wait for a few months before I dropped the hammer on her.:halo:

Shane

04CTSVFLA
08-29-05, 11:56 PM
So will this new upgraded differential be free of charge if I have manufactureres warranty and 6 year / 100k certified preowned - parts and labor?

HDMLNIUM
08-29-05, 11:57 PM
Great job guys, it sounds like it went pretty well. It looks like I will just use the GM bushings and that should get me until the 06 diff is available.. No more mods until spring time now... Don't want to give them any reason not to warranty a second diff when the time comes that I need one and the 06 will be the replacement diff...
This makes me feel better as I just got home from driving around dealer lots trying to figure out if it was time to bail on the V already. With the 06 diff in the near future it makes me feel a lot better about this car..

Great job again...

Bill

CVP33
08-30-05, 12:00 AM
So will this new upgraded differential be free of charge if I have manufactureres warranty and 6 year / 100k certified preowned - parts and labor?

Correct. Any warranty repair will be done with the '06 piece. There is still more to discuss but this is fairly good news. Not great but good. Now we need to know the '06 part #, amongst other things.

Wienk
08-30-05, 12:44 AM
:worship: Thanks, guys, for representing us!

Let's hope it does some good. It sounds like it was a good beginning to a potential "Manufacturer/Enthusiast" relationship!

Let's hope GM realizes how valuable this kind of communication can be!

Not only would that help solve our V problems, but it could ultimately help our resale values,which aren't all that great.

And, oh, it might induce some of us to buy another GM product!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you listening, GM?

calicadi
08-30-05, 01:00 AM
Thank you all for taking the time and trouble to do this on all our behalf.

CTSV05
08-30-05, 01:03 AM
First Thanx Guys for your efforts.

Second, I reeeeaaaaalllllyyyyy have my doubts as to the desire for us to be happy, as I'm still waiting for a suedo "We care about our V customers" call from Cadillac "customer service" dept.

Sadly, it looks like I'm a bit early to be the first to get a new '06 rear.

heavymetals
08-30-05, 01:12 AM
What can I say that hasn't been ?


Thanks for everything!:worship:


I still think Cadillac is making a big mistake selling a "high performance" car and not backing it up. The diff is a piece of crap.

steve711
08-30-05, 01:13 AM
Gentlemen! the ball is rolling.
This is a good thing.
Benjet,CVP33, lawfive, Stealth and lasstss You guys are keeping us going.
:worship: :worship: :worship:

Doug
I think the "GM Performance Division" (V group) is a differrant animal compared to regular cady customer service.
I think thats why you'v been having such a hard time.
I think it would be nice for all V related problems to go thru John Heinricy's group over at "GM Performance Division".
They understand more about the V.

benjet
08-30-05, 01:30 AM
First I want to say a big "thank-you" to Rick, Martin, Jerry, Ben and Chris.

Question, did the GM folks mention anything about this Forum? That they read it? That they even know it exists? Just curious. Secondly, was the conversation recorded?

-MB

Not directly, but I mentioned it directly and we all referenced it indirectly.

I KNOW for a fact that SOMEONE over there READS this forum.

benjet
08-30-05, 01:35 AM
And to all you are very welcome, glad to be a part of this community :)

ctsvett
08-30-05, 02:09 AM
Guys,
First of all GOOD JOB... I understand the medium was difficult as far as being able to get the point across and have a conversation...

A few things from my perspective:


1. We need to be thankful to GM for allowing this conversation (and hopefully ongoing conversation) to occur. At my company, there is NO WAY a lawyer would even let us CONSIDER this (regardless of the situation)... Kudos to GM for that... And it does show that they are listening...

2. Lets consider what GM HAS done so far (this may answer the "are they listening question")...
2a. We complained about wheel hop, they came out with a warranty fix for wheel hop (part of the reason diffs have been failing possibly)...
2b. We are complaing about the Diff. They tell us that they are replacing all diffs after the fall with a new upgraded diff (the 06 diff) if they fail (and you have 3 years left for it to fail...). GM probably created this diff for other reasons since it is shared with the STS-V and the entire platform, but its a "fix" regardless... We also need to keep in mind that the diff failures are probably related to wheel hop which is somewhat solved by the above. And, GM promoted that this is a road racing car (nuermberg anyone? despite the 0-60 ads) and has anyone found a problem with that? I think the car hauls ass on the road course...

3. On the dealer issue: Dealers are independent... its up to us to fight back with those dealers that suck (cvpp's dealer) and reward those who are good with our business (Chhesrown, Lindsay cadillac, etc). GM only has some level of control here and i am sure they dont like our dealer horror stories... BUT we are talking with the corporate folks about the car design and other issues.. We should limit our dealer complaints (simply, my opinion)

4. On the MOD/SC issue: We cant really expect them to warranty a supercharger (the driveline that is)... Let's be honest, we all have known that if our mod causes the failure, its our responsibility to pay for it (that's the law)... I still expect them to warranty the radio which I understand they are saying they will.... There is some gray area here and some people are going to be mad and others satisfied... At least GM is not chasing us down at racetracks and voiding our entire warranty for even racing (see Mitsu)

Is the car perfect, No. But as far as I can tell, its damn near close AND GM is listening to what we are saying.. I say we keep the lines of communication open and keep them informed of what we are seeing.

Oh, and despite what owners of other brands may say, their cars are NOT perfect either...

The above is long and my opinion..

Reed

MLV
08-30-05, 06:52 AM
Thanks, guys, for your time and efforts. It is encouraging that GM had the right people on their end of the discussion. These cars are too good for them to drop the ball, especially now with the new V lines.

Jurisimprudence
08-30-05, 08:02 AM
Well, I think that is great news. There were only about 4 things that caused me to be a bit hesitatant to buy an '05: (i) the differential weakness, (ii) the wheel hop issue, (iii) the LS2 vs. LS6 conundrum, and (iv) reports of a possible upgrade to the interior on the '06. From my perspective, it appears that GM has stepped up to the plate on the differential weakness (and I won't put the Maggie on until after my diff. is replaced), the GM bushings have greatly reduced the wheel hop, I'm happy with the LS6 (even though the LS2 will probably have more room for performance enhancement in the future), and I think the '05's interior looks very good in black, which is what I have. So, in short, I am now even happier about my choice to buy an '05, since an '06 would have cost me at least $8K - $10K more (and isn't even available yet).

urbanski
08-30-05, 10:11 AM
Good news:

1) 2006 rear diff' unit is in fact beefed up and is the same as the STS-V's.
2) Any rear failures occuring in late fall will be replaced with the new '06 unit.
3) Another call was agreed to to address ALL our concerns with an eye toward solutions.

.
that's good news right there...i'll wait til fall to take my diff out :D

CTSV05
08-30-05, 10:17 AM
All good points Reed.

And as many know, I have been in love with our car from day one. And I'm glad shes home running or not.

I agree to a point, on your launching referrence, as the Race Vs do a standing start as well.

Do I think we should expect 6 grand clutch dumps with slicks and no complaints? No, I'm not stupid.

But on the other hand, I don't see why we can't expect to be able to drive our cars aggressively from a stop without permanent damage either.

I guess what has really just flabergasted me is the constant implication on us that somehow we are the problem.

I mean, and this goes to my naivitae again, but it must be horrible to be controlled by the corporate mentality.

urbanski
08-30-05, 10:22 AM
Well, some dealers may be truly clueless and blame the driver for diff failures and WH....however GM has released bushings and a new upgraded '06 diff, meaning that GM itself has listened and reacted with fixes!! To our most serious issues!!

Many heartfelt thanks to ALL who participated. I was on a plane circling Houston at the time :rolleyes: I'd love to be in on another one should it happen.

Thanks to GM for our bushings and 06 diff. :worship:

Staxxin
08-30-05, 10:26 AM
To comment further on Urbanskiís, for those of us who havenít experienced rear diff failure, I know itís rare. Iíd like to see either an extend warranty or a recall/replacement of some sort. Based upon what Iíve read, itís inevitable the failure will occur and I donít want mine to occur after the warranty has expired.

a64pilot
08-30-05, 12:30 PM
To comment further on Urbanskiís, for those of us who havenít experienced rear diff failure, I know itís rare. Iíd like to see either an extend warranty or a recall/replacement of some sort. Based upon what Iíve read, itís inevitable the failure will occur and I donít want mine to occur after the warranty has expired.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them do that. There is precedence. I.E. doubling the warranty mileage for the Duramax injectors (another known GM problem), but it took a while. Don't give up the ship, it seems GM is stepping up to the plate and wants to fix the problem. They are ready to replace the rear diff with an upgraded one as soon as it becomes available.

ahahnu
08-30-05, 01:06 PM
Thank you to those who represented us during the conversation. No taxation without representation! Anyway I think the car overall is great, but as everyone else said the drive line and other various things (tires and wheel hop)is a concern. I was a huge German car fanatic before I got this car. I was so excited to get an American car that could hang with the Germans, and beat just about everything else. Then there was the wheel hop issue. Tire wear and the hop have diminished how much I thought I would enjoy the car- by that I mean a little street light drags. I want to keep this car for aslong as I live, and recently had been thinking that with GM not holding up warranties, constant problems I would never be able to keep up with the maintenance. I was gettingready to put my head down thinking I had been fooled into buying a typical American car with poor build and engineering qualities. The fact that GM has listened to our complaints aout wheel hop (fixing it) and now the diff problem/solution, I am excited again. I am only 25 with a lifetime of car buying to do. If GM keeps on this course I will be happy to provide them with business. The V is a car for car enthusiast. Whoever said we are embassadors is right. Other car guys and car people ask us all the time how we like the car etc. If we keep giving bad reviews, good bye V series. Hello dent in Cadillac & GM's image

Luna.
08-30-05, 02:25 PM
4. On the MOD/SC issue: We cant really expect them to warranty a supercharger (the driveline that is)... Let's be honest, we all have known that if our mod causes the failure, its our responsibility to pay for it (that's the law)... I still expect them to warranty the radio which I understand they are saying they will.... There is some gray area here and some people are going to be mad and others satisfied... At least GM is not chasing us down at racetracks and voiding our entire warranty for even racing (see Mitsu)
Reed

Totally agree.

What makes me raise an eyebrow, however, is that Magna offers a warranty for the motor and the trans, BUT not the differential. Now why is that?

My problem with this is that differentials often fail without a S/C, so how is it possible for someone to mindlessly say that the S/C "caused the failure," therefore voiding the warranty? I just can't logic my way through that one...

To be honest, the *right* answer is that '04 and '05 V owners should get an '06 differential upgrade as part of warranty work/recall. That would, in my mind, be the *right* thing to do.

Will that actually happen? I'm not holding my breath, but progress is being made, so I remain hopeful...

CTSV05
08-30-05, 05:07 PM
Luna, there are way more diff failures w/o the s/c, than with, my warranty claim was denied because I had the audacity to address the hop issue months before GM.

Oh, I have no power adding mods.

Luna.
08-30-05, 05:15 PM
Luna, there are way more diff failures w/o the s/c, than with, my warranty claim was denied because I had the audacity to address the hop issue months before GM.

Oh, I have no power adding mods.

Exactly.

That borders on Hall of Shame material for them to deny you... :suspect:

ahahnu
08-30-05, 05:26 PM
I have been keeping a close eye to the Kars system, and am so happy that someone did do this. With all the circulation of diffs failing and whinning I hoped GM would come up with a warranty solution. I also predicted to myself that they would void any warranty if they found aftermarket anything on the car. That had happened to me when I was a little younger and didn't know any better. I also do not even have a jack let alone a torque wrench to add and remove any parts, especially before taking the car to the dealer. Anyway the reason why I am writing this is, didn't you (CTSV05) work with Cadillac and some engineers or something to some extent? I know in the past you could not elaborate on it but what is stopping you know. They have obviously pissed you off, so what were they saying, and what was going on then? Please do tell, just start a new thread as not to thread jack!

Geno
08-30-05, 06:15 PM
Thanks, thanks, and THANK again for the effort of those representing us::thumbsup:

It's good to know that GM has a fix on the horizon for the rear diff. I was an advent buyer of another make of car for over 30 years, until the Z06 appeared. The "V" was only the second GM car I've owned and I purchased it with the faith that GM was commited to the performance driver. Thank you GM.

I was one of the first, I think the first on the east coast to supercharge (magnacharger) and cam a CTS-V LS6. I knew that if the motor went south or the rear blew, it was on my dime. That's the commitment you make if one deviates from the standard factory setup. Would I do it again....YES.

I do sleep better at night knowing that if I blow the rear, I can at least now purchase a worthy replacement.

Koooop
08-30-05, 06:33 PM
Who does GM think they are? Toyota? Infiniti? Damn, they put together a V team then a group of owners and listened???

What's more GM pointed out that they have or are fixing the major complaints about our car! Wheel hop improvement and a beefed up rear end at no cost to the user! This is earth shattering! It sounds like GM intends to dominate the world!

This puts Cadillac a step above the rest, anyone buying a V series car should know about this team! Someones gotta call Autoweek, Automobile, R & T, (screw consumer reports they're just a bunch of $2 whores ), this is seriously ground breaking information.

You guys did what many would say was impossible!

Good work! :thumbsup:
Now I'm gonna go play with my Magnaflow! :alchi:

timmayz
08-30-05, 06:57 PM
Sounds great, but do we need to put up with a whiney differential and wait for it to break or will they be proactive about the problem. I would think they would replace it since they are replacing transmissions depending on the symptoms...

I am feeling better about taking the plunge on this car. Just sold my 02 Z06 and was thinking am I nuts, it had no problems (so far), got better mileage and probably rode better (since it didn't have runcraps). Now I am breathing a small sigh...:cloud9:

Pengineer91
08-30-05, 07:29 PM
Thanks to you for putting out the effort. Getting an hour's worth of attention from that group is quite a victory, and, I believe, a sign that GM takes this seriously.

Please forgive my ignorance, but do the 3.6L cars use the same diff? Will this 06 upgrade address all the whining (sorry about the pun :) ) over in the CTS forum?

Florian
08-30-05, 10:46 PM
CTS doesnt have the limited slip diff as standard equipment (although it was an option)


F

benjet
08-30-05, 11:00 PM
A few things to mention (I think of things rather sporatically) -

1. They (GM) Claims that less than 0.5% of all CTS-V diffs have experienced a failure (can't drive the car failure - not whine).
(my comment to that is that - this may be within the acceptable failure spec for any GM or outsourced part)
2. As to tires, RSAs will be a available as an option (for the V!)for those wanting a more Caddy ride and better tire life.
(anyone please do a search on RSA on this forum to hear the comments, esp. by bigjimsho)
3. Anyone who is unhappy (their exact words were - disappointed) with your Cadillac (service or other) Experience SHOULD call 800-458-8006 and file a complaint.

Those are some interesing points fellow forum members!

heavymetals
08-31-05, 12:08 AM
I worked in the warranty side of some major companies, and 3.5% was considered to be catastrophic.

The % they are using may be BS because you have to apply the failure to the # of units, not the different applications the # of units are in.

If the # they stated, .5%(?) is real, someone is going to make a big bonus at GM when they come up with a "cost effective " fix.

.5% is a number to be concerned about.

In the auto industry there are %'s that trigger mandatory recalls.

In someones twisted thinking on the diff, maybe they thought that since it might withstand being "overstressed" a few times, no one would be overstressing it constantly.
Maybe a diff wasn't available at the time and they rushed to production.
Whatever the case, I think it is absurd to blame the operator when the power that is advertised and available is more then the part can handle and it fails.

Luna.
08-31-05, 12:14 AM
1. They (GM) Claims that less than 0.5% of all CTS-V diffs have experienced a failure (can't drive the car failure - not whine).

0.5%?

If Getrag's numbers are accurate, I find that near impossible to believe...

CTSV05
08-31-05, 12:29 AM
Well, I consider a whining gearset in a $50,000 car a failure on someones part!!!

My frikkin 10 sec race car doesn't whine!

timmayz
08-31-05, 10:59 AM
Well, I consider a whining gearset in a $50,000 car a failure on someones part!!!

My frikkin 10 sec race car doesn't whine!

Yeah, my Z06 didn't whine and that was basically a factory race car... The V is not far from it...

Maybe next forum with GM you should get Getrag in on it to compare notes.:stirpot:

V-Max
08-31-05, 11:32 AM
That was my guess that they'd do nothing with the old design but let the current owners cycle through them. 645 diffs are quite a few.

I wish I did not get rid of my V when I did as I probably could help deplete the inventory by about one a month since trading it for a GTO in April.

Norm


...Which means that after the 2006 models have been built, and the current service inventory of 645 Getrags has been depleted, warranty fixes should include the new diff.

Ryan's '05-V
08-31-05, 11:37 AM
To that benjet, my service tech said my diff was shot even though I was still driving it. My tires were bald at around 11,000 miles and I have already called Caddy Cust Assistance about the crap my dealer kept forgeting. After I figure my current issues I will log a complaint more about my car than the dealer.

onebadcad
08-31-05, 12:42 PM
A few things to mention (I think of things rather sporatically) -

1. They (GM) Claims that less than 0.5% of all CTS-V diffs have experienced a failure (can't drive the car failure - not whine).
(my comment to that is that - this may be within the acceptable failure spec for any GM or outsourced part)
2. As to tires, RSAs will be a available as an option (for the V!)for those wanting a more Caddy ride and better tire life.
(anyone please do a search on RSA on this forum to hear the comments, esp. by bigjimsho)
3. Anyone who is unhappy (their exact words were - disappointed) with your Cadillac (service or other) Experience SHOULD call 800-458-8006 and file a complaint.

Those are some interesing points fellow forum members!

First of all, thanks to the Forum members that went to the mat for all of us. These are my post-meeting concerns:
1) 0.5% of 8,800 (est) sold units is 44 failed/replaced units-BULLSH1T, this is a blatant lie, and based on the relevance and importance of this objective statistic, I seriously doubt GM is going to act in a honest fashion from this point forth. The improved rear for the 2006, the TSB for the bushings, and the overstated 0-60 MPH times, are all the proof I need in realizing that GM is walking, no make that running backwards from this problem. I think I can find ten Forum members that have replaced at least 44 rearends amongst themselves.
2) The OE runcraps blow, and now there is a bulletin advising owners of their poor tread life. I was reimbursed for mine, and the rest of our Forum members should receive likewise from GM.
3) Cadillac Assistance is incompetent, uninformed, indifferent and only concerned with GM's bottom line. Their bizarre strategy of extending some owner's rearend warranty, but not everyone's, defies logic, as all '04 and '05 Vs have the same components. I was forced to go over their head each time I had an issue to resolve. Someone said it best, "Cadillac Assistance is very courteous, but can't solve any issues."

By the way, my V is Maggied, so I am on an island from here out, but still am bothered that GM has chosen to act in this manner after reviewing the V's performance for the past 18 months. I realize many owners feel GM has taken a step in the right direction after Monday's call, but ask yourself this question, why are we "settling" for mediocrity on a $55,000 vehicle (I paid full sticker) and happy with scraps. I will contribute to any class action suit even though I would not benefit, as the principle of the matter is what tugs at me. By the way, I love my V, but resent GM's lack of response to our issues.

heavymetals
08-31-05, 01:22 PM
From what I read, it was 0.5% were the cause of the car failing.

They did not include the cracked ones, leakers, whiners, or clunkers.

Also, they need to apply this over the whole range, not just the V.

They need to give real #s of "failures" or replacements.

benjet
08-31-05, 01:26 PM
That was my guess that they'd do nothing with the old design but let the current owners cycle through them. 645 diffs are quite a few.

I wish I did not get rid of my V when I did as I probably could help deplete the inventory by about one a month since trading it for a GTO in April.

Norm

645 being the model #, not the # of units.

Luna.
08-31-05, 01:46 PM
Seems to me that we need to investigate GMs definition of the word "failure."

heavymetals
08-31-05, 02:00 PM
They obviously used it as the reason for the car "failing", a very narrow definition.

ie. either towed or flatbeded in.

Beancounter speak.

Give us the # of total replacements over the whole line of applications regardless of wether it caused the car to become undriveable or not.

That kind of corp BS is what turns off current owners and the bad word of mouth from them will effect the bottom line.
Speak loud enough and to the right persons and there could be a forced recall.

I would hope (I don't know why) that CADILLAC would step up and do the right thing.
This line supposedly is the flagship of GM.

Luna.
08-31-05, 02:15 PM
Give us the # of total replacements over the whole line of applications regardless of wether it caused the car to become undriveable or not.

That certainly is how I would define it.

You want beancounter speak? Okay...:)

GM records product warranties as a current / long-term liability. Basically, the liability is calculated by estimating future payments to be made pursuant to such warranties. Well, if they replace a differential, regardless of reason, but don't get paid for it, it's a LIABILITY, period.

As such, the fact that the car was towed, pushed, flat-bedded in, flown via airplane and dropped into a dealership, etc. is totally irrelevant. The bottom line is how many differentials got (or, in this case, are expected to) be replaced. The reason why is completely irrelevant.

As such, the definition above is correct & what we would want to know.

I will take a look at GMs 10K and 10Q shortly and see if I can find anything interesting. Don't hold your breathe, as disclosures in public filings are generally not detailed enough to get the information that we want here, but we shall see...

ctsvett
08-31-05, 02:37 PM
I believe that "failed" differentials include CRACKED cases and situations where the car will not move...

Does NOT include when the half shafts break (CVP33), or when someone comes in and complains about whinning/howling...

I had my diff replaced, but it was only howling, not a total failure... I would not be surprised if the total number of ABSOLUTE failures (car not moving, flatbed called) was around the 40-50 range (and the total number of cars is 7500 NOT 8500)

And CVP33 represents at least 2-3 of those right CVP? :histeric:

Reed

timmayz
08-31-05, 02:42 PM
That was my guess that they'd do nothing with the old design but let the current owners cycle through them. 645 diffs are quite a few.

I wish I did not get rid of my V when I did as I probably could help deplete the inventory by about one a month since trading it for a GTO in April.

Norm

Someone said the SRX has the same rear and problems? Maybe they will help run through those 645 units...

CTSV05
08-31-05, 04:29 PM
Hey, I want to know how I go above the so=called customer service barrier, I still have not spoken to a person concerning my slapping around.

Oh, and get this shit, I'll leave any living persons name out of it, but I was told that my entire warranty might be voided if I don't back off on the forum, now that woulld really piss me off!

steve711
08-31-05, 04:41 PM
Hey, I want to know how I go above the so=called customer service barrier, I still have not spoken to a person concerning my slapping around.

Oh, and get this shit, I'll leave any living persons name out of it, but I was told that my entire warranty might be voided if I don't back off on the forum, now that woulld really piss me off!
Whoa! who told you that you'll lose your entire warrenty if you dont back off this forum??.
That is completly ludicris

CTSV05
08-31-05, 04:45 PM
I will not elaborate Steve, but I was very quick to say, "If you think I'm a problem now......that will bring a lawsuit!!"

I am not easily intimidated, actually I kinda like a challenge. Well, we spoke on the phone, it was prolly obvious I'm not the shy type....LOL!!!

CVP33
08-31-05, 04:53 PM
The percent of failures were given as failed cases, i.e. catastrophic failures where cases were either cracked or blown apart. I did ask if we could have the total number of differentials replaced. That question was ignored. And yes Reed you are correct, only one of my 4 failures in 2 V's would qualify under GM's less than 1% statement.

Ryan's '05-V
08-31-05, 05:01 PM
CTSV05, Did the DSM threaten you with that or someone at the dealership level? GM can't keep you from joining in on the fun, what the hell is that crap??? Tell them to bring it on.

Luna.
08-31-05, 05:15 PM
The percent of failures were given as failed cases, i.e. catastrophic failures where cases were either cracked or blown apart. I did as if we could have the total number of differentials replaced. That question was ignored.

I guess that just doesn't make any sense to me. What does that number really mean? If they are replacing non-catastrophic failures, then why not include those?

GM is baffling me...:suspect:

GT04CTS-V
08-31-05, 05:49 PM
Hey, I want to know how I go above the so=called customer service barrier, I still have not spoken to a person concerning my slapping around.

Oh, and get this shit, I'll leave any living persons name out of it, but I was told that my entire warranty might be voided if I don't back off on the forum, now that woulld really piss me off!

Your warranty cannot be voided from speaking out on this forum or any other. The stock differential in the V is a piece of crap - GM should step up to the plate and fix it. BTW - Cycling through the old diffs until the inventory is purged is not the proper way to solve anyones problem. :rant2:

heavymetals
08-31-05, 06:00 PM
BTW - Cycling through the old diffs until the inventory is purged is not the proper way to solve anyones problem. :rant2:

It may be the GM way.

It is not the RIGHT WAY.

CTSV05
08-31-05, 10:20 PM
No, I wish the DSM, or actually the ASM (area service manager) would've had the ....lets see, will be nice and say courtesy... to talk to me.

No, its not from that level, but I am getting deeper and closer to finding out more info.

I love a good fight.

V-Max
08-31-05, 11:07 PM
645 being the model #, not the # of units.

Shxt! That means there could be more. D'oh!

Norm

benjet
09-01-05, 10:26 AM
Shxt! That means there could be more. D'oh!

Norm

More what?

Failed (as claimed by GM) is ~0.5% of all diffs in 2004/2005 V's (~7k units total) this = ~35 in my calc.

Again failed = broken, can't drive the car (not just replaced due to whine)