: Water pump issue, mostly? 1994 STS



Psychoness
04-11-14, 11:28 AM
I'll be honest, I had never touched a Cadillac before, I'm a truck kinda girl. My ex convinced me to buy this car, I take one look under the hood and wow! It's all backwards and confusing! Who designed this? Damn!
It's a 1994 Cadillac Seville STS. The previous owner did not take care of this car whatsoever. I find out it has a Northstar engine, and it's been driving around without coolant fans, and the whole coolant system is ****ed. I trusted my ex, he told me it was all good to go. I drove it for about a week before I looked at it myself(stupid me!) I am so glad I did not mess up this engine. I've been putting so much money into this car, trying to get it fixed, but I don't know Cadillacs. I didn't know how different they were. Wow. I'm learning at the same time.
My current issue is the water pump. It's a 94 and it looks like the water pump has never been replaced! But it's not what I'm used to, It's like replacing the core? The old water pump is rusted on there. I cannot get this thing off to save my life! I'm kinda tiny, so I've had a few of my guy friends try to get it off for me, nope! It won't budge! I've read online that it only needs to move 1/8 of an inch, this thing will not move. I have the special tool to remove it, nothing. Breaker bar, nothing. I read to use an electric impact, but another site said to definitely not do that. I need help!
I need someone who knows Cadillacs. Help, please! Anyone have any ideas? I'm sick of this thing sitting outside, undrivable. So annoying.

Submariner409
04-11-14, 11:52 AM
The water pump capsule (Northstar) unlocks by turning forcibly clockwise - to the right. You may have to use a few short bursts from an impact driver to unlock it. There's an indexing tab on the pump capsule flange - it has to go in the correct slot, and the pump locks in counterclockwise to 73 lb/ft, with raw coolant smeared on the O-ring.

What makes you think there is no cooling fan operation ? They don't even turn on until the coolant rreaches 224 degrees - traffic jam stuff. read the stickys at the top of the Engines, Northstar forum threads. Lotsa info on cooling ......

Pictures and diagrams in my albums - click my username, open the profile, left column, 2 albums, 6 pages of Northstar stuff. (Your 1994 is a bit different from my 2002, but the mechanical stuff is close.)

Use the Profile and Settings tabs to update your profile to reflect proper birth date, approximate location, and time zone - or do you really live in London - GMT ?

Ranger
04-11-14, 11:56 AM
:welcome:

A stubborn WP will submit much more quickly to a few bursts from an impact than it will to increasing torque.

Psychoness
04-13-14, 01:31 PM
Update: A couple of the little teeth on the water pump itself are stripped. The wrench won't lock on, it just slips every time. I've had many people who were so sure they could do it, try to help. Nope! This car is making many people feel insignificant lol. Terrible!

oldstuff
04-13-14, 02:51 PM
I had to modify my wrench by grinding a small dimple of metal from the side of each leg on the right hand side as viewed from the top( driven side) And that kept it from slipping. Make sure you are rotating to the right to remove.
Dave



Update: A couple of the little teeth on the water pump itself are stripped. The wrench won't lock on, it just slips every time. I've had many people who were so sure they could do it, try to help. Nope! This car is making many people feel insignificant lol. Terrible!

Submariner409
04-13-14, 03:19 PM
Do the teeth on your socket look sort of like these - angled inward from the tips ?

Ranger
04-13-14, 06:33 PM
Have you tried using the hold down clamp over the pump socket?

Psychoness
04-13-14, 07:16 PM
Well I messed up one of those wrenches already, some of the teeth were grinded down. I exchanged it for a new one. Then noticed that the water pump itself was stripped.

The wrench that the parts store has been giving me, doesn't look like that picture. It's different, but I'm pretty sure it fits correctly on the new water pump I have, I'll go check again to be sure, but it's not the one pictured here.
There's a hold down clamp? That's definitely nice to know! Every parts store I have been too are just as lost as I am, they look at me like I am nuts when I try finding a part for this car. They gave me a GMC wrench I believe, for a Northstar engine, is what they say.... Guess I can't trust them either!

That's why I found this forum, lol. I need someone who knows Cadillacs and this engine. Everyone I have spoken to seems clueless, or they're just straight wrong. ha

Ranger
04-13-14, 09:17 PM
There are 2 types of WP sockets. The cheap stamped steel ones like Lisle & Astro-Pneumatic or the more expensive machined ones like MAC, KD & Kent-Moore.
The hold down clamps are not real common. I think it may only come with the Kent-Moore tool.

Psychoness
04-14-14, 07:46 AM
The day I went to get parts for it, Their computers at the store were telling them I needed this tool, they didn't know wtf it was. Every part they said I might need, I said **** it, just give me everything, basically. I might need it, I might not, I don't care, I just want this car fixed. I didn't buy a car to stare at it sitting in the parking lot, I bought this car because I need something to get me from point A to point B. I looked at the receipt later and saw this tool was about $40, nearly as much as the water pump. That hold down clamp? I really feel like that would help a ton, I've been having friends help me try to hold this socket on there while I try to unlock it, but it always slips.
Where can I find the tools and parts I actually need? The places I have been buying parts from are obviously clueless, I'm wasting cash on things I don't need or things that just don't work. Where can I find the good socket, with the clamp? Every parts store I have dealt with are clueless and sell me shit I don't even need, because they don't know either. Should I go to a Cadillac dealership? Will they sell me parts? I don't want a "mechanic" touching my car, I never take my vehicles anywhere but my own garage. I'm going to school to be a mechanic because I want to be an honest mechanic, I don't want to rip people off like most of them do. I want to be the person people can go to for help. This car... man It has thrown me off so bad, it's so different from vehicles I have worked on so far. I open up the hood once and I was already confused. I do not want to take it to a dealership or mechanic to be fixed, it's my damn car, I want to know how to fix everything myself. Everyone should know their own damn vehicle.
Ranting, sorry, I have been drinking lol I talk too much when I drink, talk everyones ear off.
I feel like that hold down clamp, with the correct socket would help. But nobody knows what I am talking about. I've been making calls all day and going to every parts store around, nothing. They look at me like I am an idiot, which I probably am! But they are just as clueless as I am. Where can I find the correct tools and parts? Internet maybe? I want it done today, yesterday, last week. I wanted this done last month! I'd hate to wait for shipping if I have to order it online. Dealerships would only know the newer versions, wouldn't they? I've gotten job offers from dealerships, and I am clueless, so I assume all the employees could be clueless, too.
Sorry for the super long post (drunk me). But help would be much appreciated.

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Also I did not read the rules, Sorry for swearing so much, I have a potty mouth. I will stop XD

Ranger
04-14-14, 10:14 AM
Should I go to a Cadillac dealership? Will they sell me parts?
Dealers will sell you parts, not tools.


I've been having friends help me try to hold this socket on there while I try to unlock it, but it always slips.
Have you tried what I said in post #3?



Where can I find the good socket, with the clamp?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NorthStar-Water-Pump-Socket-w-Support-Bracket-OTC-6060A-Kent-Moore-J-38816-A-/390754150321?hash=item5afac327b1&item=390754150321&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/151153107464?lpid=82

Here's the hold down for $48
http://www.shopfreedomracing.com/Water-Pump-Remover-Support-Plate-J-38816-5-J-38816-5.htm

Even better
http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=Kent+Moore+J+38816+5+WATER+PUMP+REMO VER+SUPPORT+PLATE+&_itemId=360360881366

Be prepared for sticker shock on this one.
http://www.etoolcart.com/kent-moore-gm-water-pump-socket-j-38816-a.aspx

Psychoness
04-16-14, 03:56 AM
Thank you, very much! Yes, I tried that, too.
I didn't want to order anything online originally, because I wanted it done right away, but clearly I would have been much better off waiting for the mail.

I've had a lot going on lately, lots of stress and confusion, So I apologize for the ranting and lengthy posts. I am thinking much clearer now.

Thank you!

rodnok01
04-16-14, 11:09 AM
Hey rant all you want...these can be a real SOB sometimes to work on and as you have found out Parts counter people can be less than useless. Unfortunately you have a complicated vehicle and you really should invest in a FSM set or Alldata subscription. Even then the FSM doesn't cover everything you need to know but gets you in the ballpark.
From having non stock vehicles most of my life I look up the parts I want and go tell the counter guy to give me the number I ask for. That way if it don't work it's on me and I get the quality of parts and fitment I'm looking for.
With all the online places to look parts up now it's a lot easier than ever.
WP removal on one of my cars was easy the other one fought me for hours using same tools.

Psychoness
04-16-14, 11:17 PM
Haha Alright. I'm sick of putting money into this thing, though. Honestly, once I get that water pump changed, I'm selling it as quickly as possible and getting a truck. I didn't want this car to begin with, I knew Cadillacs were a pain and pricey, but I guess I had no idea. lol

Thanks guys!

rodnok01
04-16-14, 11:33 PM
I've put very little into either of mine in the last 2 years. Things wear out, but when people don't care of them properly some poor soul gets their lack of maintenance as a unpleasant surprise.
I passed over couple dozen each time before I bought one.
Best of luck with the truck, do you r homework on the year and model you are looking at and have it inspected by a mechanic before buying.

Submariner409
04-17-14, 08:51 AM
Haha Alright. I'm sick of putting money into this thing, though. Honestly, once I get that water pump changed, I'm selling it as quickly as possible and getting a truck. I didn't want this car to begin with, I knew Cadillacs were a pain and pricey, but I guess I had no idea. lol

Thanks guys!

Try to find a decent, low mileage F-150 Super Cab............ but, even with the 4.6 OHC V8 they get only 18 mpg highway on 87.

We have had this one (of two) for 8 years and 100,000 miles - it's a late 2004. Except for normal maintenance items it has been absolutely trouble free. And it is quieter and more comfortable on long road trips than the STS. Karen uses it as her DD.

Ranger
04-17-14, 10:57 AM
I've put very little into either of mine in the last 2 years.
Same here, except in my case it's been 8 years.

eldoedwardo
04-17-14, 04:46 PM
Seems your luck with your N* isn't the smiley kind. I have experience loosening bolts/parts, broken or not /and being
different metals. Try putting your socket on and pull in the tighten direction, it may have loosened and bottomed out(50 ft lb) even if it doesn't move go in the other direction. Don't jerk pull steady. It may seem like nothing has moved. After a couple of lefts then rights, pull harder maybe 65, tightening first then loosen .When it starts to come loose continue
the tighten / loosen sequence with more pressure on the loosen direction. Take the slack out of your breaker bar or
ratchet as not to bounce at torque spots.
N*'s are attention seekers. I would suggest being totally focused on it's WP removal... I have found that even slightly
impaired helpers are only going to say something profound like 'WOW' and walk away from a completely botched
repair, leaving you with a higher frustration level. Since you don't like a pro on your car why would you want someone
less knowledgeable than your self?
good luck Ed
bust a knuckle on a later model GM=Ok
on a Ford..burn it Juu-st kiddin' Ford people

Psychoness
04-17-14, 08:21 PM
I've put very little into either of mine in the last 2 years. Things wear out, but when people don't care of them properly some poor soul gets their lack of maintenance as a unpleasant surprise.
I passed over couple dozen each time before I bought one.
Best of luck with the truck, do you r homework on the year and model you are looking at and have it inspected by a mechanic before buying.
My dumb ex said he was a mechanic, he looked at it, told me everything was great! I open the hood for five minutes..... yea wtf? The guy who had this car before did not take care of it at all. Ugh!

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I'll give that a try. I figured maybe I wasn't strong enough or something, I was desperate lol. Asked a couple of my guy friends who are knowledgeable on cars... couple hours later, they feel demasculated and walk away apologizing. ha.
Sorry, I'll never own a Ford lol. Not a fan.

I'll try your idea today though. Really sucks walking across town when I have a vehicle sitting out back. Sitting for about a month now.... ugh! I hate this car so bad.... It would be nice if a moron didn't own it before me. And I wouldn't have it if I hadn't trusted my dumb ex! Pfft some mechanic.