: Oil Pan Leak?



Swanblood23
04-10-14, 01:56 AM
So I recently got a 1997 Eldorado - and the oil pan was leaking upon purchasing. I took it back to the dealer and he put some "JB weld" or the equivalent on there to stop the leak. To my knowledge, he only applied that stuff on the OUTSIDE of the oil pan on the THREE cracks that there are. After he did the seal, It held the oil in for almost a month, without leaking. A few days ago I started to notice the leakage commencing yet again, though not nearly as bad or losing as much oil as I was before he had done the seal. My question is ONE - Where can I get a new oil pan? Do I absolutely NEED to get one? Or can it be welded back together if he were to remove the tranny and engine block to get to the inside of the pan? Please let me know what your opinions are, I by no means make a lot of money - $9/hr. So If I can save money or get it fixed cheaper, that would be awesome, but I simply need it done because it is very stressful to know that it is yet again leaking. =[

basscatt
04-10-14, 02:17 AM
So I recently got a 1997 Eldorado -
and the oil pan was leaking upon purchasing.
I took it back to the dealer
and he put some "JB weld" or the equivalent on there to stop the leak.
ya - well - THAT wasn't even good enough to be considered a BAND-AID -
and had absolutely NO CHANCE of working -

go back to the selling dealer and have them FIX it for real this time -

OR -

unless it is pouring out - simply live with the leak -

OR -

spent $1500 to $2500 to have the oil pan replaced -

Ranger
04-10-14, 10:15 AM
The oil pan is aluminum. It can be welded (by someone who knows how to weld aluminum). Either way, replacing or repairing is going to be expensive as the drivetrain needs to be dropped. The question I would be asking is how did it get cracked in the first place?

Unless you got some kind of a warranty, it is an as-is used car. Taking it back to the dealer will be futile unless you are willing to pay for the work. You're actually lucky that the dealer did what he did in the first place.

Swanblood23
04-10-14, 06:59 PM
Yeah that is what im saying! I told him he needed to really weld it, but he assumed that the "band aid" would work. And it is not by any means pouring oil, but I am losing about a quart every week and a half maybe. I just want to know the best idea. Living with the leak..now would that damage things in the future? And I suppose that I should mention that the Eldo has 260k on it. That is why I don't want to have to spend so much money on it. TRUTHFULLY - When I had asked why it was cracked - they proceeded to tell me that it was completely unbeknownst to them. They then fixed it the way they did at no charge. I spoke to him yesterday, and I am taking it to him tomorrow so he can look at it and maybe just fix it for real. I love the car so much and I want it to have a good life, but these problems like this are proving to be ever so disgruntling.

ben.gators
04-10-14, 07:20 PM
If you keep the oil level at a healthy level with adding oil, it doesn't damage things. But if you let the oil level go too low, then you might have serious engine problem! You said the car has 260k on it? Miles or kilometers? If it is miles, I wouldn't even spend $100 for it because it is not worth it! Here is an honest opinion: that car can and will cost you a lot of money, no matter what your salary is! A 1997 Eldo with 260k miles is not a reliable, dependable, cheap daily driver!

Swanblood23
04-10-14, 07:29 PM
Well I have been checking the oil level daily, and adding some as it needs. I only put Shell Vpower fuel in it, and full synthetic oil. It has 260k as in miles. The reason I got the car was it was all I could afford. I'm starting to think it was an awful idea. When I purchased it for sadly $2200, the struts were also completely shot but I was able to change them from active to passive and got the new ones put in with no problem. I mainly am just hoping that the car will last for me a while longer, so I am trying my damnedest to take opulent care of it. And from what I have noticed, you are correct..it is NOT cheap. And not so much reliable in the sense that I have to fix these issues. I don't even have the car paid off yet, that is also why I am trying so hard to figure this all out so I don't end up filing bankruptcy or something.

ben.gators
04-10-14, 07:37 PM
Here is a good tip to save money: There is no point or benefit in putting Vpower fuel or full synthetic oil in that car! Yes, technically speaking, based on owners manual, pre 2000 N* engines need premium gas. But many have been using regular gas, 87 octane, with no problem. Furthermore, it is an old car with 260k miles on it and it already has problems. So using regular gas cannot cause any further damage. And because of the oil leak you have, you are literally pouring your hard earned money on the ground by putting expensive oil in it. If I were in your shoes, I would be using the CHEAPEST gas and oil that I could find!

Swanblood23
04-10-14, 08:00 PM
Well thank you! I never looked at it that way. It makes a lot of sense..I just assumed that the better stuff running through the car would help, but now that I know it doesn't really make a difference except in $$ aspects. I worry though, that if I put the cheap stuff in there, will that commence issues? Or would it make the car's life become shorter? I just want to know about all of this now, before it is too late. And One more thing, I also have to replace the O2 sensor, should I take it into a shop so they can find which one it is? Or would it be better to just purchase a code reader and do it by myself? Thank you so much for discussing this. It is just getting stressful, and I want to alleviate as much as I can.

ben.gators
04-10-14, 08:06 PM
There is no need to buy a code reader. Your car comes with a built in code reader. Follow the instructions in this thread:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-seville-cadillac-eldorado-forum/138258-how-pull-codes-dtcs.html
and post codes with their definition here or in another new thread.

Just make sure that you are using the oil grade that is recommended in your owner's manual and you should be fine even if you pick up the cheapest oil from the shelves.

Swanblood23
04-10-14, 09:01 PM
Ok awesome...Thank you so much. That is awesome that it has a built in code reader! Hell yeah! I will check and see what they say, then I will post back to you! Thank you again!

----------

I have one more question I almost forgot. After replacing the struts (as I mentioned before) They are NOT the electronic ones that came with the car. It still runs very smoothly, much much better than before, and there are no issues with it, but my question is if I can clear the "Service Ride Control and Stability Reduced" messages.

ben.gators
04-10-14, 09:13 PM
You can bypass it using a 1/2 watt, 4.7K OHM resistor. There should be a wire going to each strut and shock or better to say used to go. Cut the harness, tie together two wires that go to the harness using the resistor. The Resistor fools the computer and there would be no code!

Swanblood23
04-10-14, 09:41 PM
Sweet. Thanks again I will post later what I find out.

Ranger
04-10-14, 10:07 PM
Yeah that is what im saying! I told him he needed to really weld it, but he assumed that the "band aid" would work.
Theoretically it should work. JB Weld is some good stuff. I'd try removing it, scuffing up the area real good and patching it again, but go a tad heavy on the hardener so it sets up quicker, otherwise it tends to run.


I just want to know the best idea. Living with the leak..now would that damage things in the future?
Absolutely not. The oil level sensor will warn you when you are 2 - 2 1/2 qts low.


And I suppose that I should mention that the Eldo has 260k on it. That is why I don't want to have to spend so much money on it.
Can't blame you there.

rodnok01
04-10-14, 10:13 PM
Unless the oil was literally pouring out the bottom i woukd just patch it again at th at mileage. Clean the crap out of the crack with brake cleaner, maybe open the crack open a little and JBweld it, use th e 5 mi ute one. Oh i would drain the oil. first though.

Swanblood23
04-10-14, 10:16 PM
Thank you for all of this information. It really is helpful and I appreciate it greatly! I will keep updates posted as I fix and find out what is going on! I will let the mechanic know that this is what he should do. Thank you again!

oldstuff
04-11-14, 12:02 PM
What Ranger said but try Marine-tex aluminum. It's much better than JB.
Dave



Theoretically it should work. JB Weld is some good stuff. I'd try removing it, scuffing up the area real good and patching it again, but go a tad heavy on the hardener so it sets up quicker, otherwise it tends to run.


Absolutely not. The oil level sensor will warn you when you are 2 - 2 1/2 qts low.


Can't blame you there.

Bobanna
04-11-14, 01:11 PM
An "old-timer" would think about drilling and pinning the ends of the crack... Many seem to get good results with either product (Google Marine-tex vs JBWeld), and it seems that proper surface and crack preparation is the key. If you read, you'll see that some suggest warming the area and resin with hot air (?hair dryer) to get the resin to filow and fill the crack better. I'm amazed at some of the claimed long-term good results. Good luck and God bless.

fltdriver
04-11-14, 02:16 PM
Never used the stuff but you could try that flex seal stuff they have on TV. Supposed to be good up to 900*F, just do as the others mentioned for the JB- clean the area really good after draining the oil then coat the pan with it. Can't guarantee anything as I said I've never used it but it could be a cheap fix and may be worth a try. Or even better yet, JB the crack then coat with the flex seal so hopefully the crack doesn't grow.

Ranger
04-11-14, 03:10 PM
The biggest problem is that you'll be working upside down, you won't be getting much flow filling the crack. In this case, gravity is your enemy.

Submariner409
04-11-14, 08:10 PM
It's going to be a mostly short-term fix: There is NO WAY to stop residual oil from contaminating a cleaned crack - and that crack needs to be absolutely free of contamination or the epoxy, glue, bat grease or whatever will simply fall off the pan.

A GOOD aluminum welder could open the crack(s) to a V-shape and run a bead of heliarc wire in there, but there would be no guarantees: cast aluminum and a contaminated surface is a bitch to successfully weld.

Swanblood23
04-12-14, 02:45 AM
Ok so here are the codes that I have still seen after running the diagnostics, and clearing the "History" codes. I will post later if some re-appear after a couple of days.

TCS C1233 Current
PZM B0533 Current

let me know what these mean!

9302Eldug
04-12-14, 03:33 AM
The problem with using any of the JB Weld or Marine Tex products is that for that type of usage they will never be a permanent repair. The constant temperature changes will eventually break the bond. Don't get me wrong, They are great products. I really like the JB Weld Quick. Since you are only looking for a temporary fix and you can live with a bit of a leak I would try and keep the undercarriage cleaned of oil {coin car wash} to prevent the oil from destroying your undercar rubber parts.

basscatt
04-12-14, 03:40 AM
Ok so here are the codes that I have still seen after running the diagnostics, and clearing the "History" codes. I will post later if some re-appear after a couple of days.

TCS C1233 Current
PZM B0533 Current

let me know what these mean!
--------------------
codes are meaningless without their definitions -
there are THOUSANDS of them -
and no one has them all memorized -

Submariner409
04-12-14, 09:46 AM
let me know what these mean!

Use the link in the "How to pull codes" sticky post ^^^ to get to a HUGE list of all OBD-II definitions.

Swanblood23
04-13-14, 05:31 AM
Ok so I was actually wrong - there are five codes, not two.

PCM P0441 Current - Evaporative Emission Control System Incorrect Purge Flow
RSS c1712 Current - LF Damper Actuator Open CKT
RSS c1717 Current - Damper Actuator Open CKT
TCS C1233 Current - Right front wheel speed circuit opened or shorted.
PZM B0533 Current - Fuel Sensor Open/Shorted To B+

basscatt
04-13-14, 04:01 PM
Ok so I was actually wrong - there are five codes, not two.

PCM P0441 Current - Evaporative Emission Control System Incorrect Purge Flow
RSS c1712 Current - LF Damper Actuator Open CKT
RSS c1717 Current - Damper Actuator Open CKT
TCS C1233 Current - Right front wheel speed circuit opened or shorted.
PZM B0533 Current - Fuel Sensor Open/Shorted To B+

-----------------------
P0441 - there is probably a vacuum leak somewhere in the purge system -

C1712 and C1717 - the electronics in both front struts are not working -

C1233 - you need to replace the right-front hub -

B0533 - your gas guage is screwed up -
either a bad plug - or the sensor itself is bad -

ben.gators
04-13-14, 04:22 PM
This^


-----------------------
P0441 - there is probably a vacuum leak somewhere in the purge system -

C1712 and C1717 - the electronics in both front struts are not working -

C1233 - you need to replace the right-front hub -

B0533 - your gas guage is screwed up -
either a bad plug - or the sensor itself is bad -

It seems that you just replaced the front struts with passive ones, right? You can get rid of these two codes with the trick that posted in this thread before; use resistors to fool the computer.

You said you have check engine light on? If yes, P0441 is the code responsible for that.

Check the wire and sensor that goes to right front hub. You might have forgot to connect it after you have replaced the struts, or it can be a bad connector, or a bad hub. If the hub is bad, replace it with a high quality one. Hub is one of those parts that you need to spend more and buy a good brand, else you will be replacing the cheap hub in less than a year again. I would suggest AC Delco or Timken.

Swanblood23
04-14-14, 05:04 AM
This is great - thank you everyone for your help. So there was one more code that showed up - hopefully it's not anything TOO bad.

RSS C1761 RF Position Sensor Input Fault

You said you have check engine light on? If yes, P0441 is the code responsible for that.
The check engine light is off after I cleared the codes a few days ago. The only lights on are ABS and Traction Control.