: Alright guys, its time for a serious discussion about Fuel...



Playdrv4me
08-20-05, 07:51 PM
In my opinion the fuel situation is now getting out of hand. Long beach currently has 3.49 a gallon gas at one station, with the nationwide low being a few hundred miles south of me at 2.10 a gallon. Everyone alwas uses the excuse that adjusted for inflation the prices are still lower than the 1980's fuel embargo but still we are encroaching on acceptance of 3.00 a gallon gas here and its beginning to worry me somewhat. It doesnt matter if you have all the money in the world, as I posted on a similar thread at the Combustion Chamber on Autoweek, I do not work to be a gas philanthropist and make oil companies rich.

Moreover, only a very small percentage of our fuels come from the place that is constantly blamed for it, the Middle east. Most of our fuel still comes from Canada and Mexico so its not such a black and white OPEC issue.

So what are some of the technologies you believe might possibly be able to change the landscape of fossil fuel dependency? I saw something on CBS news tonight about a Lithium Ion battery pack setup for a Toyota Prius that gets 150 miles per gallon, but it costs 10-12000.00. Now THERE is a situation where yes you have to be somewhat wealthy to afford that kind of setup, but you have a CHOICE, you can line the pockets of the battery producers and inventors, who arent gouging anyone and just developing their product, or you can continue line the pockets of the oil company executives etc.

Having nothing to do with the Environment (quite frankly that is not a large concern of mine) what can be done? Discuss... and keep it clean and friendly, I didnt post this in the CI forum for a reason.

BTW... I realize our overseas friends would be delighted to pay what we pay for gas, but I think that without some kind of control, it is not impossible for fuel to one day soon on our shores, start to get close to foreign prices.

mccombie_5
08-20-05, 08:02 PM
It wuldnt at all surprise me to see you getting higher fuel prices, you are right, i would KILL to pay what you do for petrolium,and since i just bought a 3.0TDI phaeton i would also kil for what you pay for diesel, because that is about 4p more PER LITRE than regular.

I think fuel is taxed WAY too much......

Ralph
08-20-05, 08:08 PM
I think fuel is taxed WAY too much......

Our fuel tax is 40 cents per litre!! I now pay $1.18 per litre!!!! (premium) That might work out to around almost 4 dollars per gallon.

It's just going up and up!!

I was talking about this with a friend through email and when the trucking companies start hurting, EVERYTHING will start to cost more because of this because most everything is trucked in like food, auto parts, you name it.

I'm VERY concerned because I want to know if it will ever get cheaper again.

What are the major causes for the fuel rise? I have a few theories of my own at this point.

Playdrv4me
08-20-05, 08:12 PM
Our fuel tax is 40 cents per litre!! I now pay $1.18 per litre!!!! (premium) That might work out to around almost 4 dollars per gallon.

It's just going up and up!!

I was talking about this with a friend through email and when the trucking companies start hurting, EVERYTHING will start to cost more because of this because most everything is trucked in like food, auto parts, you name it.

I'm VERY concerned because I want to know if it will ever get cheaper again.

What are the major causes for the fuel rise? I have a few theories of my own at this point.

Yea youre right, I think UPS and FedEx had or have been adding a fuel surcharge to shipments for a couple of years now.

Jesda
08-20-05, 08:13 PM
I think its worries of increased demand from India and China, followed by speculators running up oil futures. Right now, I see per-barrel oil prices as a bit of a bubble. It'll pop soon. It has to.

Ralph
08-20-05, 08:13 PM
Yea youre right, I think UPS and FedEx had or have been adding a fuel surcharge to shipments for a couple of years now.

I wonder about airlines.....

also I think OPEC only controls 40%.

mccombie_5
08-20-05, 08:17 PM
Our fuel tax is 40 cents per litre!! I now pay $1.18 per litre!!!! (premium) That might work out to around almost 4 dollars per gallon.

It's just going up and up!!

I was talking about this with a friend through email and when the trucking companies start hurting, EVERYTHING will start to cost more because of this because most everything is trucked in like food, auto parts, you name it.

I'm VERY concerned because I want to know if it will ever get cheaper again.

What are the major causes for the fuel rise? I have a few theories of my own at this point.

Yup, truck drivers blockaded Shell and other main companies refineries here a few years ago, there was no bread ont he shelves of supermarkets, and there was no fuel anywhere. I was driving back and forth to the service station like mad on the week before, we drove around in my sons Rover 114 Gta for over a week because it was the most economical car on our driveway.

My wife was unable to drive to work at one point and had to take time off (which is frowned upon, shes a headmistress {principal} at a high school)

It hurts everyone, Ralph youre paing over $4 a gallon? Im paying over 4 a gallon, thats 91ppl and 95ppl for diesel....

Stoneage_Caddy
08-20-05, 08:27 PM
fuel will not get back to the old levels , never ...Unless demand falls so sharply that it forces prices down...

this expensive fuel IS what the country needs , only when its so damned expensive that SUV sales fall thru the floor will the big three and others finnaly see that in order to maintian sales levels and there profits they have to invest in new technology. Only then will they finnaly break the ties to big oil....

With how the computer and cell phone indistry advances why cant we break the ties to the internal combustion engine ? Why is it so much beatter than say, electric motors ? If you have seen the charts on where the power is on 99% of all electric motors you all would know that if you want performance the electric motor is the only way to go....Peak Torque is avaible at ANY RPM.....

Imagine , Fuel Cell power , one electric motor at each wheel controlled by a computer , the computer controlling the power to each wheel ...Just cornering alone will improve so much itll make todays sports cars look silly ....combine that with the low center of gravity and abilty to place the mechanicals. batterys and everything else wherever you please ....itll be a car untouchable by anything made right now ...

Its sucks , i know .....belive me , im pumping it into my car ....and ill hate to get rid of it once i cant afford to put gas in it ...but with all the corperate greed right now its the only way ...

Ralph
08-20-05, 08:35 PM
Yup, truck drivers blockaded Shell and other main companies refineries here a few years ago, there was no bread ont he shelves of supermarkets, and there was no fuel anywhere. I was driving back and forth to the service station like mad on the week before, we drove around in my sons Rover 114 Gta for over a week because it was the most economical car on our driveway.



It hurts everyone, Ralph youre paing over $4 a gallon? Im paying over 4 a gallon, thats 91ppl and 95ppl for diesel....


I remember a few years ago in France the truck drivers got tough! They all pulled over on the hughway, right in the middle of the lane and refused to budge! I think it went on for hours and eventually they lowered the prices of fuel.

Actually, if my Province took away the tax, or didn't have so much tax, we'd have cheaper fuel than the U.S.

I'll have to work out exactly what it costs per gallon.

mccombie_5
08-20-05, 08:37 PM
Yup, i can afford to put fuel in my cars now, but believe me it will not be long before my ESV is up for sale, but i wil be selling it a a tremendous loss, its all well and good being able to put fuel into my car, but it will not be logical soon because is ever increasing in cost.

Its a shame, because cars are my passion, and i love them very much, i love the mechanics of the internal combustion engine, but i know it is dead technology.
At the same time i dont want an ecobox prius, surely with the amount of money large corporations pour into the dying combustion engine, they can put some into developing preformance elecrtic motors, theres nothing saying they cannot run an ESV on such a thing, they NEED to work on the electric motors producing performance like a combustion engine or it will ruin the essence of the motorcar.

Like i say i have plans to sell my ESV within the nest year or so, because i rarely use her, and it costs me so mcuh to keep her running. Its a shame, i love her. But the Range rover is doing the same job, and theres no need to have two 4wd cars.....

mccombie_5
08-20-05, 08:39 PM
I remember a few years ago in France the truck drivers got tough! They all pulled over on the hughway, right in the middle of the lane and refused to budge! I think it went on for hours and eventually they lowered the prices of fuel.

Actually, if my Province took away the tax, or didn't have so much tax, we'd have cheaper fuel than the U.S.

I'll have to work out exactly what it costs per gallon.

Yeah it was around same time as the trucking crisis here, we live in a relatively rural area and our service stations werent getting any fuel, i was able to work at home for the week or two, but my wife obviously cant do that, and it caused her alot of trouble, there was a scare that they would have to close her school, because there were so few teachers and pupils able to get to it....

Playdrv4me
08-20-05, 08:42 PM
fuel will not get back to the old levels , never ...Unless demand falls so sharply that it forces prices down...

this expensive fuel IS what the country needs , only when its so damned expensive that SUV sales fall thru the floor will the big three and others finnaly see that in order to maintian sales levels and there profits they have to invest in new technology. Only then will they finnaly break the ties to big oil....

With how the computer and cell phone indistry advances why cant we break the ties to the internal combustion engine ? Why is it so much beatter than say, electric motors ? If you have seen the charts on where the power is on 99% of all electric motors you all would know that if you want performance the electric motor is the only way to go....Peak Torque is avaible at ANY RPM.....

Imagine , Fuel Cell power , one electric motor at each wheel controlled by a computer , the computer controlling the power to each wheel ...Just cornering alone will improve so much itll make todays sports cars look silly ....combine that with the low center of gravity and abilty to place the mechanicals. batterys and everything else wherever you please ....itll be a car untouchable by anything made right now ...

Its sucks , i know .....belive me , im pumping it into my car ....and ill hate to get rid of it once i cant afford to put gas in it ...but with all the corperate greed right now its the only way ...

Exactly! I made the same point over at the AutoWeek forum and some idiot was dumb enough to try to make the point that because of the recent advances in combustion engine technology that its ready for the next 100 years. BULLCRAP! Combustion engine technology is 100 years old and this is the damned U.S., we make strides in almost every other industry, what is so hard about putting the fire under someone's ass to come up with a reliable electric powered solution or otherwise? (Someone over there also pointed out that the Electric motor is no "spring chicken" but the fact of the matter is they DO work")/

Brett
08-20-05, 08:46 PM
I keep hearing people saying they are gonna have to get rid of their cars, etc....but i dont get it. If gas is $2 a gallon and you drive 15k miles per year and get 15mpg then you pay approx 2k a year for gas....so gas goes to $3 and your fuel cost goes up 1k per year or $83 per month, is that really a big enough jump to consider selling your car? hell if you can get 20 mpg then you're only paying 62.50 more per month. I think gas would have to creep to something like 6 or 7 bucks per gallon to really effect buying habits

Stoneage_Caddy
08-20-05, 08:48 PM
well yes , the electric motor is if memory serves OLDER than internal combustion ...and at one point in automotive history it was more popular ...due to the fact that an eletric car at that time was more suited to women drivers and drivers who didnt want to stuff a stick int he end of the crank and break there arm trying to turn the engine over .....

I dont blame them , i have started a Model T , its a PITA....

It wasnt really untill .....as you might not think...cadillac came out witht he self starter that the gas engine fnnaly won out ....so this 100 years of "progress" was really started by ....US....

Alanis Morrisette (another fine young canuck) said it best "Isnt it Ironic?"

Brett
08-20-05, 08:49 PM
It's not like electric motors are the final solution. They are still polluting based on the production of the electricity to charge them, plus the manufacturing process used with the alkaline metals in their batteries is extremely toxic, also the current US power grid could not handle the extra load if even 20 or 30% of people switched over.

mccombie_5
08-20-05, 08:50 PM
I keep hearing people saying they are gonna have to get rid of their cars, etc....but i dont get it. If gas is $2 a gallon and you drive 15k miles per year and get 15mpg then you pay approx 2k a year for gas....so gas goes to $3 and your fuel cost goes up 1k per year or $83 per month, is that really a big enough jump to consider selling your car? hell if you can get 20 mpg then you're only paying 62.50 more per month. I think gas would have to creep to something like 6 or 7 bucks per gallon to really effect buying habits

It works at about $7.50 for a gallon here...... current rates.

Stoneage_Caddy
08-20-05, 08:50 PM
I keep hearing people saying they are gonna have to get rid of their cars, etc....but i dont get it. If gas is $2 a gallon and you drive 15k miles per year and get 15mpg then you pay approx 2k a year for gas....so gas goes to $3 and your fuel cost goes up 1k per year or $83 per month, is that really a big enough jump to consider selling your car? hell if you can get 20 mpg then you're only paying 62.50 more per month. I think gas would have to creep to something like 6 or 7 bucks per gallon to really effect buying habits
well brett , im just worried where its going to stop .....i wanna be prepared in case it does run to 7 or whatever it takes for me not to be able to afford gas and to be able to get something that i can afford gas for ...

then i stub my toe on my pocketbike and breathe a sigh of relif

Playdrv4me
08-20-05, 08:52 PM
Like I said, Electric motors are a terrific alternative, but Im up for ANY possible solution. Combustion based on Hydrogen or zebra poo is fine with me as long as it effects some kind of paradigm shift. The environment thing is not that big of a deal to me, but the reliance on fossil fuel overall I think needs to start going down even if a little but more than it is now. People are already starting to criticize Hybrids because theyre expensive but as with any new technology it just needs time to come down in price. They certainly arent the end all be all either though.

Stoneage_Caddy
08-20-05, 08:52 PM
It's not like electric motors are the final solution. They are still polluting based on the production of the electricity to charge them, plus the manufacturing process used with the alkaline metals in their batteries is extremely toxic, also the current US power grid could not handle the extra load if even 20 or 30% of people switched over.
full electric ISNT the way to go tho ...fuel cells are , running off the most abundant rescoure in the universe ....

GM's "Impact" and "eV1" (and susequent engineering protoypes for the EV?) proved that full eletric just isnt pratical....

Brett
08-20-05, 08:53 PM
I could see 7 being a problem, im just tired of the people im talking to lately around town, that are having a fit, yet they have no problem paying $4 for a cup of coffee every morning

Brett
08-20-05, 08:55 PM
full electric ISNT the way to go tho ...fuel cells are , running off the most abundant rescoure in the universe ....

GM's "Impact" and "eV1" (and susequent engineering protoypes for the EV?) proved that full eletric just isnt pratical....


I agree, i just think its a complex problem, not easily solved. i know your quite knowledgeable in this area(far more than me) but sometimes these things get oversimplified, like, why dont we just start using that mythic 100 mpg carburator from 50 years ago.... :)

Stoneage_Caddy
08-20-05, 08:56 PM
Like I said, Electric motors are a terrific alternative, but Im up for ANY possible solution. Combustion based on Hydrogen or zebra poo is fine with me as long as it effects some kind of paradigm shift. The environment thing is not that big of a deal to me, but the reliance on fossil fuel overall I think needs to start going down even if a little but more than it is now. People are already starting to criticize Hybrids because theyre expensive but as with any new technology it just needs time to come down in price.
Hybrids are a stop gap , till someone puts enough resources behind fuel cell ...

thats why i hate to see GM working on hybrids , they need to forget the stop gap and get really going on fuel cell , to be first to market

Playdrv4me
08-20-05, 08:56 PM
I could see 7 being a problem, im just tired of the people im talking to lately around town, that are having a fit, yet they have no problem paying $4 for a cup of coffee every morning

Yea I somewhat agree and I somewhat dont. This is another common quote "You complain about Fuel but yet the per gallon price for Soda or Milk is much higher". True, and yes that mochal latte may in fact cost 4.00, but I certainly dont have to buy it, and Im certainly not buying 15 gallons worth of any of that stuff.

Where I agree with you is that yes, 4.00 a gallon is not so much worse compared with 2 in the grand scheme of things, but if it goes on unchecked 4.00 becomes BECOMES the new 2 and thats where the problem gets worse and worse.

Boombotz
08-20-05, 08:57 PM
Thank goodness, I don't drive the Lade to work.

Stoneage_Caddy
08-20-05, 08:59 PM
I agree, i just think its a complex problem, not easily solved. i know your quite knowledgeable in this area(far more than me) but sometimes these things get oversimplified, like, why dont we just start using that mythic 100 mpg carburator from 50 years ago.... :)
dont laugh but i KNOW the guy from chrysler that found a way to make a internal combustion engine burn not at the typical 14.7:1 air fuel ratio (that every gas engine from the begiinaing has used) but at a much LOWER fuel to air ratio....Bordering on no fuel used

Sold to shell , money used on bailing chrysler out (aka K car)

Brett
08-20-05, 08:59 PM
zebra poo is fine with me as long as it effects some kind of paradigm shift.

100 years from now a history professor will end a lecture with "OK class, tomorrow we will discuss the shift in the global economic paradigm brought on by the use of zebra poo and the problems with the african zebra cartels that followed"

Brett
08-20-05, 09:01 PM
Yea I somewhat agree and I somewhat dont. This is another common quote "You complain about Fuel but yet the per gallon price for Soda or Milk is much higher". True, and yes that mochal latte may in fact cost 4.00, but I certainly dont have to buy it, and Im certainly not buying 15 gallons worth of any of that stuff.

Where I agree with you is that yes, 4.00 a gallon is not so much worse compared with 2 in the grand scheme of things, but if it goes on unchecked 4.00 becomes BECOMES the new 2 and thats where the problem gets worse and worse.

I agree, the latte thing is a bit oversimplistic. i just think the chicken littles are out a bit early on this one.

P.S. Im retty sure a few of my friends DO drink 15 gallons of that stuff a week :)

Stoneage_Caddy
08-20-05, 09:03 PM
I got a grandmother that drinks 2 gallons of coffie a day ....smokes 2 packs too ....

im really not sure how she doesnt get sick ...

Stoneage_Caddy
08-20-05, 09:04 PM
oh and ive worked on the 100 MPG carberator , it was attached to a 125 cc suzuki motorcycle .....LOL

mccombie_5
08-20-05, 09:08 PM
I buy a cup of coffee that costs about $6 USD most mornings, theres a Starbucks near my office, do you get Strawberries and Cream Frappacino there?

I let my wife deal witht he amount i spend on fuel per year, she does all of the taxes and budgeting etc

Stoneage_Caddy
08-20-05, 09:11 PM
I buy a cup of coffee that costs about $6 USD most mornings, theres a Starbucks near my office, do you get Strawberries and Cream Frappacino there?

I let my wife deal witht he amount i spend on fuel per year, she does all of the taxes and budgeting etc
we might have that ...i got no clue tho for sure ....i can remember those names ....i point at the size i want and say "gimme that flavor with the milk and carmel in it on ice"
they seem to figure it out pretty damned well .....otherwise its "coffie black" ,and they always screw that up

mccombie_5
08-20-05, 09:17 PM
we might have that ...i got no clue tho for sure ....i can remember those names ....i point at the size i want and say "gimme that flavor with the milk and carmel in it on ice"
they seem to figure it out pretty damned well .....otherwise its "coffie black" ,and they always screw that up

Hahaha yes, they screwed up major last winter when i took a client for coffee, and i ordered mocha and she ordered a hot chocolate, i dont know what my client got, but it was of the same consistency of treacle.....

Stoneage_Caddy
08-20-05, 09:19 PM
treacle ? whats that ? is that what happens when you drop the biscuit in the bloody tea ?

mccombie_5
08-20-05, 09:26 PM
treacle ? whats that ? is that what happens when you drop the biscuit in the bloody tea ?

Treacle is like erm, goo. Its very thick, im trying to think of something to compare it to.

Gunge

HotRodSaint
08-20-05, 10:12 PM
I think keeping gasoline at $3.00 per gallon via a tax is amuch better solution to getting consumers to buy fuel efficient car's, than forcing automakers to sell what the consumer isn't buying.

I mean what's next forcing Coca Cola to meet an artificial goal of selling more Diet Coke than regular Coke because Americans are obese?

It's not the job of 'industry' to force people to buy unwanted products. I find it rather chicken sh!tted of the government to lay this reponsibility at their feet, rather than take the responsibility themselves by raising fuel costs.

Stoneage_Caddy
08-20-05, 10:22 PM
I think keeping gasoline at $3.00 per gallon via a tax is amuch better solution to getting consumers to buy fuel efficient car's, than forcing automakers to sell what the consumer isn't buying.
.
Consumers cant buy what isnt sold ...

Stoneage_Caddy
08-20-05, 10:24 PM
wait a tic .....im getting a nasty case of deja-vue (or however thats spelled)

i know i been here before ...and it aint the 2 shots talking

addison_ii
08-20-05, 10:25 PM
I think keeping gasoline at $3.00 per gallon via a tax is amuch better solution to getting consumers to buy fuel efficient car's, than forcing automakers to sell what the consumer isn't buying.

I mean what's next forcing Coca Cola to meet an artificial goal of selling more Diet Coke than regular Coke because Americans are obese?

It's not the job of 'industry' to force people to buy unwanted products. I find it rather chicken sh!tted of the government to lay this reponsibility at their feet, rather than take the responsibility themselves by raising fuel costs.
I never thought of it that way. But that really seems like that's is what's happening.

ben72227
08-20-05, 11:01 PM
dont laugh but i KNOW the guy from chrysler that found a way to make a internal combustion engine burn not at the typical 14.7:1 air fuel ratio (that every gas engine from the begiinaing has used) but at a much LOWER fuel to air ratio....Bordering on no fuel used

Sold to shell , money used on bailing chrysler out (aka K car)

Yeah I kinda remember that, Chrysler develped that mythical engine, and too avoid setting fuel companies back, the government agreed to bail out Chrysler, and then the K cars came...

This will really make you guys angry - Iraqi citizens only pay 5 cents per gallon for regular gasoline in Iraq;), the gov't pays a subsidy to the oil refineries...

Jesda
08-21-05, 12:22 AM
So instead of 80MPG we got the ****ing Dodge Aries? ARGH!

http://www.hmn.com/images/dealers/bmotors/hires/IMG_1938.JPG

Ralph
08-21-05, 12:24 AM
So instead of 80MPG we got the ****ing Dodge Aries? ARGH!

http://www.hmn.com/images/dealers/bmotors/hires/IMG_1938.JPG

Those are probably going to be collectable soon. :shhh: :)

Playdrv4me
08-21-05, 12:48 AM
So instead of 80MPG we got the ****ing Dodge Aries? ARGH!

http://www.hmn.com/images/dealers/bmotors/hires/IMG_1938.JPG

Man I hate that car...

Ralph
08-21-05, 12:52 AM
Ian, clear your pm box!! :)

illumina
08-21-05, 01:07 AM
I think its worries of increased demand from India and China, followed by speculators running up oil futures. Right now, I see per-barrel oil prices as a bit of a bubble. It'll pop soon. It has to.

I say you're 100% correct on this. The market is very easily scared and prices will go haywire like they are now. However, I'm not so sure about the bubble bursting so soon, though I would like it to.

That said, the tax here in Ohio isn't all that bad per gallon I guess, being at $.46 per gallon. But one has to wonder about it...Price per gallon as of today for 93 octane is $2.74 9/10...When filling up the tank or even putting $20,00 in a car, that's a lot of cash where I come from.

People just don't have the cash to go and buy a new, fuel efficeint car. And mass transit around here is also not an option! To have some piece of mind in the workforce, one must have a car in order to make it. Even then, a lot of people I know can't cut it...This includes my parents and many others I know.

Night Wolf
08-21-05, 01:33 AM
The gas is really a problem now....

so lets say we get a new fuel system and stuff.... what happens to the MILLIONS of current cars?

what about classic cars? they will still need gasoline, so it'll be $10/gal?

I am not going to give up my '93 Coupe DeVille because of gas, that is for sure, but what happens when the fuel it runs on is no longer made?

Also, cars from the 70's are gonna dip wayyy down in price, although they are starting to come up as classics now, so they may not... but you are gonna be able to get full size cars and trucks for dirt cheap... but then gotta put gas in it to run it.

honestly, I havn't been driving the '79 much at all..... and... I have been driving my Oldsmobile much more.... THAT is the way to have cheap transportation... that car cost me $500, I put, say $1,500 into it (including new paint job and 4 brand new tires etc...) and with 130k miles, it has lots of life left, I get 22mpg town and 34mpg highway, running the AC also.... and it takes regular, this car is just so good on gas it isn't funny.

So here is the thing, my mother is like, don't drive around unless you have to, gas is expensive... well, I still drive for no reason, but it makes you think, if people are not driving right now because of gas prices, car enthusiests and stuff, then what? is this an end to all pleasure driving? because gas prices sure aren't coming down, so as long as we are in this mindset of only driving when you have to, there will be no more pleasure driving....

not even year ago gas was $2/gallon, and people were going crazy, now at like $2.80/gallon, people just WISH it was $2/gallon.

When I started driving Augest of '03, I was paying $1.74 for premium, regular was $1.55.... and you know, I drove so much because it was what I always wanted to do.... but I feel very good know that i drove about 3,000 miles in a month and a half, it was when gas was cheap, and I really enjoyed that, so I am happy....

I have been thinking about getting a cheap econo car, but you know, it isn't cost effective at all... and when I realize that my midsize (fullsize intodays world) Oldsmobile with a 3.8L V6 gets amazing gas mileage, that a 4banger would get only 5mpg more, and not have the power, luxury or options and such, it is just not cost effective at all...

sucks too, because the vehicle I am getting after I graduate tech school (I'll be in the market summer of '07) is a Jeep Wrangler, and those get about 15mpg, so I am actually going backwords, it'll be like I am driving the '79 around... but ya know... it is really what I want, and I am gonna get it.

illumina
08-21-05, 01:46 AM
The gas is really a problem now....

so lets say we get a new fuel system and stuff.... what happens to the MILLIONS of current cars?

what about classic cars? they will still need gasoline, so it'll be $10/gal?

I am not going to give up my '93 Coupe DeVille because of gas, that is for sure, but what happens when the fuel it runs on is no longer made?

Also, cars from the 70's are gonna dip wayyy down in price, although they are starting to come up as classics now, so they may not... but you are gonna be able to get full size cars and trucks for dirt cheap... but then gotta put gas in it to run it.

honestly, I havn't been driving the '79 much at all..... and... I have been driving my Oldsmobile much more.... THAT is the way to have cheap transportation... that car cost me $500, I put, say $1,500 into it (including new paint job and 4 brand new tires etc...) and with 130k miles, it has lots of life left, I get 22mpg town and 34mpg highway, running the AC also.... and it takes regular, this car is just so good on gas it isn't funny.

So here is the thing, my mother is like, don't drive around unless you have to, gas is expensive... well, I still drive for no reason, but it makes you think, if people are not driving right now because of gas prices, car enthusiests and stuff, then what? is this an end to all pleasure driving? because gas prices sure aren't coming down, so as long as we are in this mindset of only driving when you have to, there will be no more pleasure driving....

not even year ago gas was $2/gallon, and people were going crazy, now at like $2.80/gallon, people just WISH it was $2/gallon.

When I started driving Augest of '03, I was paying $1.74 for premium, regular was $1.55.... and you know, I drove so much because it was what I always wanted to do.... but I feel very good know that i drove about 3,000 miles in a month and a half, it was when gas was cheap, and I really enjoyed that, so I am happy....

I have been thinking about getting a cheap econo car, but you know, it isn't cost effective at all... and when I realize that my midsize (fullsize intodays world) Oldsmobile with a 3.8L V6 gets amazing gas mileage, that a 4banger would get only 5mpg more, and not have the power, luxury or options and such, it is just not cost effective at all...

sucks too, because the vehicle I am getting after I graduate tech school (I'll be in the market summer of '07) is a Jeep Wrangler, and those get about 15mpg, so I am actually going backwords, it'll be like I am driving the '79 around... but ya know... it is really what I want, and I am gonna get it.


Very well put!

Not only does one enjoy the drive (me too), but there is also the fact that the mainstream of the workforce just can't go out and buy a new fuel efficient car.

I wonder two things:

a.) Is there any future inventions in fueling our current gasoline engines? I would be willing to put an auxiliary fuel monitoring/engine management system on my car if one so comes out...Almost willing... :cookoo:

b.) I don't have pay-per-view cable, so does anyone know who won the Chuck Liddell/Jeremy Horn fight at the UFC? Hope Chuck won it!

addison_ii
08-21-05, 01:56 AM
I like pleasure cruising as well and my job is 30 miles away from my apartment so public transpo isn't a viable option. I have been staying in the house on the weekends because of the current gas prices. It sucks that they are so high. Premium is 2.90/gallon right now. WTF when is it going to end.

Night Wolf
08-21-05, 02:42 AM
I was talking with a family member, just small talk, nothing much....

what about a hybrid add-on kit you could add to any car?

think about it, an electric motor consists of the armature spinning thru a coil to create an electrical charge...

well, on a car like my '79 there is a pretty long drive shaft under the car, with RWD coming back to the market, lots of cars have drive shafts again...

would it be possible to have the driveshaft act as an armature, and have some sort of coil system around it, under the floorboards of the car....

then you have batteries in the trunk, and a system setup for an electric motor to drive the car when sitting in traffic and other times the electric motor is used on a hybrid car....

think about it, normal hybrid cars recharge when you hit the brakes, this would recharge anytime the car is moving, thus turning the driveshaft, and if you were able to design something to use both that drive shaft theory AND the regenative brakes, you would have a car that is nearly self sufficent as when it is moving AND brakig it is recharging....

I dunno, sounds like it could be a plan to me and it could be an add on kit to nearly any car..ahh yes, I can see it now, my '79 DeVille with hybrid technology, a 500cid V8 with cylinder deactivation and a 4spd overdrive trans, means the car will do the 1/4 in 13seconds flat and get me 50mpg while crusing in all the comfort a '79 DeVille offers :) dream on...

Jesda
08-21-05, 03:41 AM
You are a freaking genius. That actually sounds like a BRILLIANT idea!

Night Wolf
08-21-05, 04:02 AM
You are a freaking genius. That actually sounds like a BRILLIANT idea!

lol, yeah? lets put it to work :)

illumina
08-21-05, 04:09 AM
b.) I don't have pay-per-view cable, so does anyone know who won the Chuck Liddell/Jeremy Horn fight at the UFC? Hope Chuck won it!

Not a soul knows, huh? Oh well, I get the news sometime tomorrow I'm sure.

Anyways Rick, that is a very good idea! I have the FWD models (more than I know what to do with), but maybe something could be done from the drive axels on the car...That would be cool as Hell...

Night Wolf
08-21-05, 04:20 AM
yup, so here is a picture I just took, 3:15AM, I have been up all night, I'll leave soon and just drive around, then I gotta go to work...

but yeah, this is my response to the rising gas prices.... the damn thing gets killer mileage, it is unbeleaveable I can do about 280 miles and the gas gauge is on 3/8 tank,a nd to fill up it is about 11 gallons, that is mixed driving... same 18gal tank as the '93 too.

and for a 16 year old family sedan, it has 165hp and 220ft-lbs of torque, it'll lay rubber from a stop, beat the ricer next to me at the stop light, and has the power to merge or pass people without a problem.... it really is a cool car...

illumina
08-21-05, 04:28 AM
yup, so here is a picture I just took, 3:15AM, I have been up all night, I'll leave soon and just drive around, then I gotta go to work...

but yeah, this is my response to the rising gas prices.... the damn thing gets killer mileage, it is unbeleaveable I can do about 280 miles and the gas gauge is on 3/8 tank,a nd to fill up it is about 11 gallons, that is mixed driving... same 18gal tank as the '93 too.

and for a 16 year old family sedan, it has 165hp and 220ft-lbs of torque, it'll lay rubber from a stop, beat the ricer next to me at the stop light, and has the power to merge or pass people without a problem.... it really is a cool car...

Why does it look like there is frost on that car? Or is it morning dew?

Night Wolf
08-21-05, 04:43 AM
yeah, its dew... notice the grass too?

it is like 75 outside right now, but humid....

airbalancer
08-21-05, 08:38 AM
dont laugh but i KNOW the guy from chrysler that found a way to make a internal combustion engine burn not at the typical 14.7:1 air fuel ratio (that every gas engine from the begiinaing has used) but at a much LOWER fuel to air ratio....Bordering on no fuel used

Sold to shell , money used on bailing chrysler out (aka K car)

If that was the case it would have been patent would be up.
Also could you not check the patent place to see if there was one.

Also I have noticed people driving slow to save gas.
All these 1 L engine cars are flying by me.
Yes I have slowed down to 60 mph in the pickup truck

Brett
08-21-05, 10:13 AM
if you havent already read it Chuck L won in 4th round, TKO. Horn said he couldnt see

fast66
08-21-05, 05:13 PM
I found this... pretty interesting
http://www.fueltracker.com/newmenu/home.html?id=gougefacts&title=Gasoline+Fact+Sheet
Did you know ExxonMobil made a profit of $7.6 Billion in the past three months!!!

Playdrv4me
08-21-05, 08:15 PM
Ian, clear your pm box!! :)

Cleared!

JC316
08-21-05, 08:48 PM
Well, I have a theroy on why gas prices are going up and it may be a wild one, but it is what I believe. The airlines have been losing customers during the summer months because people don't want to get anal probed by people looking for a ceramic .357 magnum. People drive thier cars or motorhomes where ever they are going. I own a motorhome with a 454 and it gets 6 miles to the gallon. Needless to say many people are saying screw that and going back to the airlines. That brings the buisness back to the airlines and makes the oil companies richer than ever. Btw Oil companies SUCK!!!!!!!!!

airbalancer
08-21-05, 08:59 PM
Well, I have a theroy on why gas prices are going up and it may be a wild one, but it is what I believe. The airlines have been losing customers during the summer months because people don't want to get anal probed by people looking for a ceramic .357 magnum. People drive thier cars or motorhomes where ever they are going. I own a motorhome with a 454 and it gets 6 miles to the gallon. Needless to say many people are saying screw that and going back to the airlines. That brings the buisness back to the airlines and makes the oil companies richer than ever. Btw Oil companies SUCK!!!!!!!!!
But tickets are going up because of the price of oil so people are saying screw the plane I am driving

Jesda
08-21-05, 09:08 PM
Slower isnt necessarily better for fuel economy. For example, low-revving engines like the Lincoln Mark VIII's 4.6L Intech V8 get about 24mpg at 60mph. At 70mph, it goes up to 27mpg!

My Q45 seems to do its best fuel numbers at 65mph.

Speed : Revs

cruzajc1
08-21-05, 09:25 PM
I don't want to get too political being that I'm in the USAF and will spend my next 4 months in Balad, Iraq, but I sure wish our efforts over there would lower gas prices. I remember when gas was .78 cents a gallon over here in Georgia about 3-4 years ago. What can we do now, the election is over and both guys in the White House are former Oil men. I would have thought their influence/connections with the Saudi's would have helped to lower prices. One thing is for sure, the oil company's (whatever their rationale is this time for raISING THE GAS PRIES) are not hurting for money. At this point, especially using premium for my 96 STS I am pissed off and ready to vote for a women the next time around. My 2 cents

cruzajc1
08-21-05, 09:26 PM
sorry thought this was a political discussion:)

illumina
08-22-05, 12:33 AM
Slower isnt necessarily better for fuel economy. For example, low-revving engines like the Lincoln Mark VIII's 4.6L Intech V8 get about 24mpg at 60mph. At 70mph, it goes up to 27mpg!

My Q45 seems to do its best fuel numbers at 65mph.

Speed : Revs

My '91 Seville actually gets better mileage going around 72 mph as opposed to the 65 limit on the highway. I get around 28-30 mpg up there!!! She is also a low revver...

Kev
08-22-05, 12:37 AM
My '91 Seville actually gets better mileage going around 72 mph as opposed to the 65 limit on the highway. I get around 28-30 mpg up there!!! She is also a low revver...Mine also gets best mileage around 73 mph +/- though I don't nealy see 28-30 mpg. Blast that cheap DFI!

illumina
08-22-05, 12:49 AM
Mine also gets best mileage around 73 mph +/- though I don't nealy see 28-30 mpg. Blast that cheap DFI!

I have performance enhancements such as the MSD, so when cruising at 2100 RPM's or so, I am getting complete combustion with three sparks per cumbustion cycle.


if you havent already read it Chuck L won in 4th round, TKO. Horn said he couldnt see

Good deal :thumbsup:

I knew that Liddell would have the upper hand this time around. He's just too explosive on the striking and has a very solid defense for not getting taken to the ground. Some say that Liddell has underrated ground skills, but I say he could be a little better. I wouldn't tell him that though!

I like Horn's ground technique, but I have always been partial to striking when I train. I do need to get a better grip of ground technique however. I have 2 years boxing and close to 3 years Tae-Kwon-Do experience along with some Jiu-Jitsu in my resume, but I really would like to get back into the Jiu-Jitsu on a full-time basis. I only really got the training when I was in the Army, and was somewhat limited. Whenever I get together with my friends who do this sort of thing, striking is my forte. Need more ground work... :bomb:

I wanna be just like the "Iceman" when I grow up!

Kev
08-22-05, 12:53 AM
I have performance enhancements such as the MSD, so when cruising at 2100 RPM's or so, I am getting complete combustion with three sparks per cumbustion cycle.Hey Mike, do you think MSD would make a difference on my 4.5 w/throttle body DFI? If so, do you have one that you would recommend?

illumina
08-22-05, 01:05 AM
Hey Mike, do you think MSD would make a difference on my 4.5 w/throttle body DFI? If so, do you have one that you would recommend?

It just might. They have been known to help those sorts of things out.

That said, I went nuts and bought the 'Digital-6' ignition for $279.00, but would have been better served with the $179.99 '6A' ignition if only for the cost. The '6A' doesn't have the rev controlls, but you don't really need them for stock applications. When I bought mine, I knew that I was going to do more with the car, so the rev controlls and other features helped to determine that. I still have yet to discover the best plug gaps for the current setup I have, so there might be some room for improvement.

Keep in mind also that my mileage has also been helped by the intake work, exhaust, and timing work among a few other things. Had I not put an adjustable fuel pressure regulator on the car, I may have better mileage, especially up high where the regulator is meant to shine.

Kev
08-22-05, 01:25 AM
Thanks! :thumbsup:

illumina
08-22-05, 01:52 AM
Thanks! :thumbsup:

*DISCLAIMER*

Should you purchase said MSD item and said MSD item does not show signifigant improvements or even minimal improvements to said car ('89 Deville), Illumina and his subsidiaries are not to be held responsible for such purchases.

Illumina also claims special performance enhancement rights to the 4.1, 4.5, and 4.9 liter Cadillac engines. Should someone attempt to enhance said engines and said engines do not show signifigant improvements or even minimal improvements in performance, Illumina and his subsidiaries are not to be held responsible for such actions.

Illumina has a wide range of mechanical knowledge for said Cadillac engines. Should someone attempt to tinker with, or otherwise disrupt the balance of power in said Cadillac engines without the consent of Illumina, Illumina and his subsidiaries are not to be held responsible for such actions. Even with Illumina's consent, user acknowledges that said work on said Cadillac engines are at the risk of said user and Illumina and his subsidiaries are not to be held responsible for said mechanical actions.

Illumina and his subsidiaries hope that said enhancements and purchases help the purchaser of said items.

Kev
08-22-05, 02:05 AM
*DISCLAIMER*

Should you purchase said MSD item and said MSD item does not show signifigant improvements or even minimal improvements to said car ('89 Deville), Illumina and his subsidiaries are not to be held responsible for such purchases.

Illumina also claims special performance enhancement rights to the 4.1, 4.5, and 4.9 liter Cadillac engines. Should someone attempt to enhance said engines and said engines do not show signifigant improvements or even minimal improvemnets in performance, Illumina and his subsidiaries are not to be held responsible for such actions.

Illumina has a wide range of mechanical knowledge for said Cadillac engines. Should someone attempt to tinker with, or otherwise disrupt the balance of power in said Cadillac engines without the consent of Illumina, Illumina and his subsidiaries are not to be held responsible for such actions.

Illumina and his subsidiaries hope that said enhancements and purchases help the purchaser of said items.
:histeric::rofl:

If I don't get 30 mpg and drop my ET to 14 sec.s flat I'm comin after you!! :rant2:

:histeric: :rofl:

I went onto MSD's site and wrote them a message asking if they have a recommendation for my application with the parameters of mileage first, performance second. It will be interesting to see their response. I'll share it with you when I get it.

So, if I go with this and am not satisfied I'll blame them instead of you. :p

I imagine with the right system I might see some improvement, the engine should run even smoother than it does now eh? I am averaging 24 mpg on the highway, 14+ in town. I would be glad to see 26/16 steady, more would be a further bonus.

I haven't forgot about the intake you shared with me and some day will replace the muffler with something a little more free flowing. With all of those I wonder if I might see 28 mpg on the highway? Hmmm.......
That would be outstanding in my book.

illumina
08-22-05, 02:16 AM
:histeric::rofl:

If I don't get 30 mpg and drop my ET to 14 sec.s flat I'm comin after you!! :rant2:

:histeric: :rofl:

I went onto MSD's site and wrote them a message asking if they have a recommendation for my application with the parameters of mileage first, performance second. It will be interesting to see their response. I'll share it with you when I get it.

So, if I go with this and am not satisfied I'll blame them instead of you. :p

I imagine with the right system I might see some improvement, the engine should run even smoother than it does now eh? I am averaging 24 mpg on the highway, 14+ in town. I would be glad to see 26/16 steady, more would be a further bonus.

I haven't forgot about the intake you shared with me and some day will replace the muffler with something a little more free flowing. With all of those I wonder if I might see 28 mpg on the highway? Hmmm.......
That would be outstanding in my book.


Kev, my '87 Seville with the 4.5 liter transplant is getting 15.5 city, 26 or so highway! You should be getting much better mileage than 14/24...Something doesn't seem right to me. And I still need a new idle speed controll motor and drop the fuel pressure down to about 13 psi as opposed to the 16 she's running now (rich condition). Once that's all done, I will advance the timing to about 12 degrees BTDC and I seriously expect to see 17+ in the city for the '87!

All in all, the way I drive is a certain factor, but I have seen around 17+ city, and the 28-30 highway from everything I've done to the '91 Seville and being a leadfoot.

As for the engine running smoother with the MSD, yes it certainly will! That's the first thing I noticed when I hooked that thing up. Just be careful that you don't fry the factory ignition module with the MSD. With the cheaper 6A, that shouldn't be an issue though...

Kev
08-22-05, 02:26 AM
Right now the car is stock with the exception of a K&N replacement filter. The car belonged to a neighbor who passed, I bought it from her daughter who is a good friend. Before I bought it I drove it and noticed it was very sluggish so I tuned it for them with new plugs, plug wires, cap/rotor, fuel filter and air filter. It had 74,000 miles at the time and I think the plugs were original. That perked the old girl up nicely but I haven't done much since other than a good throttle body cleaning.

I should check the timing but haven't taken the time. That could make quite a difference alone if it is off or retarded.

Ralph
08-22-05, 02:31 AM
Right now the car is stock with the exception of a K&N replacement filter. The car belonged to a neighbor who passed, I bought it from her daughter who is a good friend. Before I bought it I drove it and noticed it was very sluggish so I tuned it for them with new plugs, plug wires, cap/rotor, fuel filter and air filter. It had 74,000 miles at the time and I think the plugs were original. That perked the old girl up nicely but I haven't done much since other than a good throttle body cleaning.

I should check the timing but haven't taken the time. That could make quite a difference alone if it is off or retarded.

I just posted this on that other fuel economy thread....just so you have a baseline for economy. I don't drive my car hard unless I'm in a little stoplight race with a Benz.....

"28-31 HW, and 15-17 city.

That's with 34,000 miles, K&N AF and Bosche platinium spark plugs. (regular plugs) Everything else is factory still.

Guess I can't complain."

Kev
08-22-05, 02:36 AM
"28-31 HW, and 15-17 city.I hate you! :crying2: :crying:

illumina
08-22-05, 02:36 AM
Right now the car is stock with the exception of a K&N replacement filter. The car belonged to a neighbor who passed, I bought it from her daughter who is a good friend. Before I bought it I drove it and noticed it was very sluggish so I tuned it for them with new plugs, plug wires, cap/rotor, fuel filter and air filter. It had 74,000 miles at the time and I think the plugs were original. That perked the old girl up nicely but I haven't done much since other than a good throttle body cleaning.

I should check the timing but haven't taken the time. That could make quite a difference alone if it is off or retarded.

The trade off: advance the ignition timing to 13 degrees BTDC, expect to pay for the premium gas (92 or better octane). Better mileage is expected along with better performance. Retard the timing to 6 or 8 degrees and expect a severe drop in performance. Mileage might suffer a little (if any), but chaeper gasoline can be used. If pinging occurs at any diviation from factory timing, then try different octanes until it goes away. Should that fail, set the timing to factory specs and leave it at that.

In all honesty though, the timing advance is the way to go for these engines, but 20 cents cheaper on the gallon helps too. It's all up to you and your driving habits.

Kev
08-22-05, 02:38 AM
The trade off: advance the ignition timing to 13 degrees BTDC, expect to pay for the premium gas (92 or better octane). Better mileage is expected along with better performance. Retard the timing to 6 or 8 degrees and expect a severe drop in performance. Mileage might suffer a little (if any), but chaeper gasoline can be used. If pinging occurs at any diviation from factory timing, then try different octanes until it goes away. Should that fail, set the timing to factory specs and leave it at that.

In all honesty though, the timing advance is the way to go for these engines, but 20 cents cheaper on the gallon helps too. It's all up to you and your driving habits.I have been running 87 octane with no pinging what so ever. I've got to check the timing!

illumina
08-22-05, 02:38 AM
I just posted this on that other fuel economy thread....just so you have a baseline for economy. I don't drive my car hard unless I'm in a little stoplight race with a Benz.....

"28-31 HW, and 15-17 city.

That's with 34,000 miles, K&N AF and Bosche platinium spark plugs. (regular plugs) Everything else is factory still.

Guess I can't complain."

I'm a known leadfoot with 158,200 miles on my car. She is getting the same mileage too!

I imagine that if I let up on the pedal a little more, an increase in mileage can be expected.

Ralph
08-22-05, 02:38 AM
I hate you! :crying2: :crying:

I didn't read all of this thread, but what about synthetic tranny fluid and oil, would that help a little? You aren't getting too bad for mileage.

Ralph
08-22-05, 02:39 AM
I imagine that if I let up on the pedal a little more, an increase in mileage can be expected.

I would guess, LOL!

What do you use for plugs Mike??

illumina
08-22-05, 02:44 AM
I have been running 87 octane with no pinging what so ever. I've got to check the timing!

Yeah Kev, something is causing your lackluster gas mileage. Check the timing and see where it is at.

If I recall correctly, a certain someone said the factory timing on the 4.x engines were purposely retarded from the factory for low octane use when needed. If you look at your vehichle emissions label under the hood, you'll notice that under the timing specs it will say to set timing at 6 to 10 degrees BTDC. On the MPFI cars, the tag only recommends 10 degrees BTDC, and I've heard that people have used lower octane fuels with the factory setting on the MPFI 4.5/4.9 liter engines without an issue.

illumina
08-22-05, 02:52 AM
I would guess, LOL!

What do you use for plugs Mike??

I use and highly recommend the AC-Delco Rapidfire plugs. I have used the Bosch platinum-4 plugs and they did nothing but shroud the spark and cause a serious lack in performance. Advance Auto refunded my money when I traded the Bosch plugs back in! The plat-2's should be better, but I'll stick with the AC-Delco plugs.


You aren't getting too bad for mileage.

His mileage is actually lackluster and could be at least 2 mpg better without most of the performance stuff. My '87 Seville is getting 15.5 in the city and she's not completely tuned yet. She also has the larger 4.5 liter engine transplant that replaced the stock 4.1 liter engine!

I'm also keeping in mind that I have a brand-new engine in the '87, but like I said, there is a lot of tuning needed...

Kev
08-22-05, 02:53 AM
Yeah Kev, something is causing your lackluster gas mileage. Check the timing and see where it is at.

If I recall correctly, a certain someone said the factory timing on the 4.x engines were purposely retarded from the factory for low octane use when needed. If you look at your vehichle emissions label under the hood, you'll notice that under the timing specs it will say to set timing at 6 to 10 degrees BTDC. On the MPFI cars, the tag only recommends 10 degrees BTDC, and I've heard that people have used lower octane fuels with the factory setting on the MPFI 4.5/4.9 liter engines without an issue.I will do it, ya! I don't know when, but I will do it! :thumbsup:

Ralph
08-22-05, 02:57 AM
I use and highly recommend the AC-Delco Rapidfire plugs. I have used the Bosch platinum-4 plugs and they did nothing but shroud the spark and cause a serious lack in performance. Advance Auto refunded my money when I traded the Bosch plugs back in! The plat-2's should be better, but I'll stick with the AC-Delco plugs.



His mileage is actually lackluster and could be at least 2 mpg better without most of the performance stuff. My '87 Seville is getting 15.5 in the city and she's not completely tuned yet. She also has the larger 4.5 liter engine transplant that replaced the stock 4.1 liter engine!

I'm also keeping in mind that I have a brand-new engine in the '87, but like I said, there is a lot of tuning needed...

Hey, 2500 posts, congrats!

I deliberately choose the regular Bosche plats a couple years ago because they resembled the original style the best. Everyone here seems to go for the "better" Bosche 2 or 4. I know that GM designes these engines with that in mind, (similar or GM parts to be used) and to be used with similar parts in the future like general maintenance, etc.

Rapidfires are too expensive I found, and the Bosche were on sale at that time.

illumina
08-22-05, 03:04 AM
Hey, 2500 posts, congrats!

Ho-ly shit! I have no life...:helpless:

You'd better watch out Ralph, RobertCTS is seriously gaining on you with well over 5000 posts at an 11.xx post per day average!


I deliberately choose the regular Bosche plats a couple years ago because they resembled the original style the best. Everyone here seems to go for the "better" Bosche 2 or 4. I know that GM designes these engines with that in mind, (similar or GM parts should be used) and to be used with similar parts in the future like general maintenance, etc.

Rapidfires are too expensive I found, and the Bosche were on sale at that time.

As long as they're not the plat-4's, then things should be ok. Regular Bosch plats are cool because I've used them in the '87 before her transplant years ago without any issues. I have Autolites in her now.

Ralph
08-22-05, 03:07 AM
Robert is still a "lightweight." :cool:

I heard from my Grand Marquis mechanic that Fords seem to run better and like Fram Autolites in them for some reason. He also said to never use Champions in a Ford. Not sure what he based that on but I went ahead and put the Bosche plats in the Merc. when I owned it.

illumina
08-22-05, 03:33 AM
Robert is still a "lightweight." :cool:

I heard from my Grand Marquis mechanic that Fords seem to run better and like Fram Autolites in them for some reason. He also said to never use Champions in a Ford. Not sure what he based that on but I went ahead and put the Bosche plats in the Merc. when I owned it.

The Autolites are just a stopgap until I get the engine in proper tune. I will likely go for a better cap/rotor (Accel) and new wires (mix 'n' match from the garage!) along with a better coil down the road. Right now, she runs great, has decent mileage, and is quiet when compared to my '91 Seville, which is very nice when I just want to relax with a quiet ride.

When I get some extra time and cash to spend, I am going to try the iradium plugs and see how they do, but that will be for the '91 Seville.

HotRodSaint
08-22-05, 11:22 AM
Slower isnt necessarily better for fuel economy.

So my 15mpg isn't due to my lead foot? :p

It's costing me $9.00 per day to commute.

But I guess I should be thankful that I don't also pay that amount in bridge, tunnel and roadway tolls everyday, like some Americans do. :ill:

But at $9.00 per day, I'm wondering if moving closer to work or buying a small car would be a good investment. Not that I need an incentive to move closer to the beach, but if I could justify it in savings... :cool:

mccombie_5
08-22-05, 11:37 AM
So my 15mpg isn't due to my lead foot? :p

It's costing me $9.00 per day to commute.

But I guess I should be thankful that I don't also pay that amount in bridge, tunnel and roadway tolls everyday, like some Americans do. :ill:

But at $9.00 per day, I'm wondering if moving closer to work or buying a small car would be a good investment. Not that I need an incentive to move closer to the beach, but if I could justify it in savings... :cool:

Well, im currently carless in a work sense, luckily my Phaeton will be here soon, but i will have to drive th STS to work for a few weeks until then, and it will cost me alot less than public transport. I like to be as comfortable as possible in my hour+ drive to work. If i was to get the bus/metro it would cost be about 8 per day (thats about $14 US) and it would take me 90+minutes to get to work. For now im keeping my car.....

Kev
08-22-05, 12:16 PM
Well, im currently carless in a work sense, luckily my Phaeton will be here soon, but i will have to drive th STS to work for a few weeks until then, and it will cost me alot less than public transport. I like to be as comfortable as possible in my hour+ drive to work. If i was to get the bus/metro it would cost be about 8 per day (thats about $14 US) and it would take me 90+minutes to get to work. For now im keeping my car.....How far is your hour+ commute? I used to drive just under an hour to go 55 miles. Traffic usually flowed pretty well, at or above the limit on the freeway (65mph). Now my commute is 5 miles (sweet!). I've thought about riding my bike but I'm just too fat and lazy for that right now.

mccombie_5
08-22-05, 12:21 PM
How far is your hour+ commute? I used to drive just under an hour to go 55 miles. Traffic usually flowed pretty well, at or above the limit on the freeway (65mph). Now my commute is 5 miles (sweet!). I've thought about riding my bike but I'm just too fat and lazy for that right now.

Haha its about 11 miles. The traffic gets really terrible though and it can sometimes take over an hour to get that far. I used to do 22 miles in 18 minutes....

Kev
08-22-05, 12:26 PM
Haha its about 11 miles. The traffic gets really terrible though and it can sometimes take over an hour to get that far. I used to do 22 miles in 18 minutes....And public transportation takes 90+ minutes!? What do they use? Oxen and carts?!!

mccombie_5
08-22-05, 12:34 PM
And public transportation takes 90+ minutes!? What do they use? Oxen and carts?!!

I live in a semi rural area, the busses only run once every half hour and they stop EVERYWHERE on a morning there is usually about 5-10 people at every stop on the route, some stay on, but some get off. Its affectionately known locally as the "stagecaoch"

I could drive down to my nearest metro station (light railway, the tyne and wear metro) but i would have to leave my car in the station all day, and it isnt a secure place to leave your car. It would be quicker than driving, but it isnt as convienient because i would still need to drive through the local traffic and leave my car in an insecure area.

And i dont like sharing a train carraige with 600 other people packed in like sardines. Realistically i need the car at work too. So even if i took the bus, i would still have to drive one of my assistants cars to inspections and meetings.

http://www.busphotos.co.uk/ARRIVA%20NORTH%20EAST-7253-M178LYP-2004.jpg

Would you really want to go to work on that? ;)

Kev
08-22-05, 12:46 PM
http://www.busphotos.co.uk/ARRIVA%20NORTH%20EAST-7253-M178LYP-2004.jpg

Would you really want to go to work on that? ;)I'd take that over this!

http://penut.net/images/links/donkey.jpg

:p

mccombie_5
08-22-05, 12:48 PM
I'd take that over this!

http://penut.net/images/links/donkey.jpg

:p

Hahahaha! :histeric:

Looks like something my dads wife has! :canttalk:

I bet it goes faster than the ole stagecoach

Kev
08-22-05, 12:53 PM
Hahahaha! :histeric:

Looks like something my dads wife has! :canttalk:

I bet it goes faster than the ole stagecoachYeah, it's pretty quick when it's not overloaded like that but it only gets about 75 miles per bale. :hmm:

mccombie_5
08-22-05, 12:55 PM
Yeah, it's pretty quick when it's not overloaded like that but it only gets about 75 miles per bale. :hmm:
:histeric:

Does it come with air con?

Kev
08-22-05, 12:58 PM
:histeric:

Does it come with air con?Yeah but they're workin on that, you know how it is. Especially here in California where emissions are so strict! :helpless:

:farting:

mccombie_5
08-22-05, 01:05 PM
Yeah but they're workin on that, you know how it is. Especially here in California where emissions are so strict! :helpless:

:farting:

:histeric: :histeric:

India is WAY ahead of you guys, look at this finely styled piece of ex british engineering, it kicks that donkeys ASS any day. It has seats, wheels, and a body all for 7mil Rupee

http://www.allcarpictures.com/pictures/hindustan/ambassador-classic/hindustan-ambassador-classic.jpg

Kev
08-22-05, 01:10 PM
:histeric: :histeric:

India is WAY ahead of you guys, look at this finely styled piece of ex british engineering, it kicks that donkeys ASS any day. It has seats, wheels, and a body all for 7mil Rupee

http://www.allcarpictures.com/pictures/hindustan/ambassador-classic/hindustan-ambassador-classic.jpgYeah, well, I guess............ but you can't eat that when it gives out!

mccombie_5
08-22-05, 01:15 PM
Yeah, well, I guess............ but you can't eat that when it gives out!

Good point, you could eat the stuffing in the seats.....

Kev
08-22-05, 01:19 PM
Good point, you could eat the stuffing in the seats.....Oh yeah! I hear they are high in fiber, good for the colon. 'Course the down shot is they taste like a colon after so many years of people sitting on them......... eeeeeewwwwwwwwee!!

mccombie_5
08-22-05, 01:34 PM
Oh yeah! I hear they are high in fiber, good for the colon. 'Course the down shot is they taste like a colon after so many years of people sitting on them......... eeeeeewwwwwwwwee!!

YUK!!!!!!!
:histeric:

Kev
08-22-05, 01:37 PM
Well, so much for this thread being a serious discussion! :bang2:

:p

mccombie_5
08-22-05, 01:40 PM
Well, so much for this thread being a serious discussion! :bang2:

:p

We're thread jackers :halo:

Hey if you cant laugh about fuel prices you will cry :rant2:

Kev
08-22-05, 01:42 PM
We're thread jackers :halo:

Hey if you cant laugh about fuel prices you will cry :rant2:Guilty as charged!

But let's face it, this thread was getting stuffy and painful! It screamed for a bit of levity!

mccombie_5
08-22-05, 01:48 PM
Guilty as charged!

But let's face it, this thread was getting stuffy and painful! It screamed for a bit of levity!

Agreed!

Yup, it needed to lighten up or we would all be walking around in tears over the cost of fuel.....

Kev
08-22-05, 02:10 PM
Agreed!

Yup, it needed to lighten up or we would all be walking around in tears over the cost of fuel.....You know, of course, whilst we are slapping ourselves on the back for a job well done :highfive: the moderators are grumbling plans for our demise... :suspense:

mccombie_5
08-22-05, 02:16 PM
You know, of course, whilst we are slapping ourselves on the back for a job well done :highfive: the moderators are grumbling plans for our demise... :suspense:

Theyre doing what now?

Kev
08-22-05, 02:17 PM
Theyre doing what now?Just kidding! (I hope)

MADE YOU LOOK! :bouncy:

mccombie_5
08-22-05, 02:18 PM
Just kidding! (I hope)

MADE YOU LOOK! :bouncy:

:histeric: you had me worried there

airbalancer
08-22-05, 08:23 PM
serious discussion and a tin banger impossible . :histeric:

N0DIH
08-22-05, 09:17 PM
So my 15mpg isn't due to my lead foot? :p

It's costing me $9.00 per day to commute.

I'll trade ya drives!
I am getting around 19mpg and it still costs me around $15 per day. (52 miles on the short route one way)

That adds up to costing me $1.85 out of every hour I work just to go to gasoline! Compared to when it was only $1.50, it only cost me $1.03 per hour of everyday just for gas for my car. I would have to find a car to get around 34 mpg AVERAGE compared to my 19 mpg now just to come back to what the gas prices were not very long ago.

Pretty much electric motors help because you can store the energy as opposed to having to keep burning it just to keep the engine spinning. If I can come up with a way....

I was pondering taking a FWD Deville and add in a rear axle with an electric motor attached to the yoke and a rack of batteries in the trunk. Even if I got 25% of my drive (25 miles) on the electric, or electric assist would help mileage a lot. But with the heavy weight, city mileage would probably suffer, but not to the extent of the gains from the electric assist. But, would it pay out in the long run? Costs of the motor are high, batteries high, and the electric bill in the house to charge them, as it would take a lot of power to charge them while driving.

Boombotz
08-23-05, 09:49 AM
http://www.gasbuddy.com/ This web site will help you locate the cheapest gas prices in the area. I found it very up to date and it saves me time. If you find prices cheaper when you get home just enter them in so others in your area can beat the high price as well. I find this is the most efficent way to drive down prices. Use the station with the cheapest price others will have to come down if there really losing buisness. I posted this in several areas. Hopefully some of you can make as much use out of it as I have.

davesdeville
08-23-05, 03:43 PM
I think someone should set up a database of gas prices that's constantly updated in realtime BY the gas stations. This would pretty much mean it would have to be a government program enforced by law or incentives or something. Anyway the database would be accessable through the internet and the MMS system over cell phones.



dont laugh but i KNOW the guy from chrysler that found a way to make a internal combustion engine burn not at the typical 14.7:1 air fuel ratio (that every gas engine from the begiinaing has used) but at a much LOWER fuel to air ratio....Bordering on no fuel used

Sold to shell , money used on bailing chrysler out (aka K car)

HOW? If fuel ain't burning and creating combustion gasses then the engine won't work... agh it bugs the hell out of me when people say that. It's not possible dammit.

HotRodSaint
08-23-05, 10:44 PM
I am getting around 19mpg

How?? :hmm:

Am I really driving that fast? Or is my car not in top tune?

We are talking about your FW, right?

VinnyT
08-23-05, 10:50 PM
What I love is that when the price of oil jumps $2 a barrel, gasoline will go up .20 a gallon. When the price falls $2.00 a barrel, gasoline is lucky to drop .05 a gallon. What the hell is with that??

N0DIH
08-25-05, 01:12 AM
Yup, that is the one. 3.42's and all. Right now I am at 380 miles on this tank, ready for a fill up (I rarely go over 350 before I fill). I have had the AC off this week, so it got a little bit better, I am guessing around 19-20 for this tank. But it is at 1/4 tank on the gauge and I do know it will run out at 2 bars left (found out the hard way the day I bought it....)

Mine has stock plugs (AC Delco, replaced with new AC Delco's at 100K, it has 164K now), stock wires (looks like factory, but could be factory replacement, the guy did do a lot of dealer work), throttle body bypass, home brew CAI, 35 psi in the tires (trailering psi, 30 was to mushy) and I am not a heavy foot on the throttle, I use cruise as much as I can, coast towards stops if I can, and keep it around 62-65 mph (back roads, speed limit 55). I average 15 stops each way to work and back, so I get my share of stop and go driving.


How?? :hmm:

Am I really driving that fast? Or is my car not in top tune?

We are talking about your FW, right?