I've read that Caddy is planning updates to the motor & interior of the next model year CTS (base not V).

Anyone know if/when these will be available? Are 2003.5 models shipping to dealers now?

Thanks,

Dave

i havent heard anything solid, but it seems likely that the 2004's will have some changes but i dont think anytime before that

from what i've heard so far, they are going to address all the complaints and more. Interior is going to be more luxurious, and engine is going to be more powerful (somewhere in 250+hp range)

from what i've heard so far, they are going to address all the complaints and more. Interior is going to be more luxurious, and engine is going to be more powerful (somewhere in 250+hp range)

:wave: Hello, everyone first post I'm sure everyone knows that the CTSV will have Corvettes LS1 with somewhere around 350 to 400 hp :thumbsup:

Welcome to cadillacforumS.com. Is that your cts in the pic? Niiiiice

Hi-

Thanks for the great info! What I should have asked is, "when will the updates to the interior & engine be available? Late 2003?"

Thanks!

Dave

I'm guessing this summer. Most cadillac dealer doesn't seem to have any idea what i'm talking about.

Originally posted by Devil_concours
I'm guessing this summer. Most cadillac dealer doesn't seem to have any idea what i'm talking about.


cadillac dealer i talked to a few weeks ago told me not to believe everything i read, and that the v-series is just a rumor, i mentioned it was on the cadillac website but he did not seem impressed

Originally posted by Brett
cadillac dealer i talked to a few weeks ago told me not to believe everything i read, and that the v-series is just a rumor, i mentioned it was on the cadillac website but he did not seem impressed
lol that's a classic
When i bought my 02 f250 4door lariat w/7.3l powerstroke diesel, I would have waited another month or two for the 03 model if i knew/if the salesman told me about the updated transmission and engine that will be on the 03 models.

Glad I came to CTS forum. Phatcads photo is the best looking CTS I have seen. Only way I can get my 95 SLS back from wife is get her to like the CTS..LOL. driving her old 92 Civic is a bore.

Good info....Thanks

went around today to a dozen or so high perfomance places, no one on the east seems to be touching the cts's unless you want to drop a ton of money.

Heads up for 2004. Bigdaddycoats from the Edmunds.com board has found a site with information regarding the 2004 Cadillac CTS changes and or upgrades. The site 2004 Online Order / Reference Guide has specific ordering information regarding many GM makes and models I'm assuming for use by dealerships. Navigation is quick and easy and could provide some much needed information regarding package option changes for the 2004 model as well as engine questions. I have cut and pasted the "new" information for the 2004 Cadillac CTS. But there have been some option packages that have changed or that have been added that might interest you if you're looking to buy a 2004 Cadillac CTS like I am. Anyways big thanks to Bigdaddycoats for the heads up on this website, let the 2004 CTS information search continue.

Deletions


Exterior color 12U Sterling
Exterior color 84U Garnet Red
Exterior color 85U Copper Sunburst

New Features


Exterior color 29U Red Line
Exterior color 42U Silver Smoke
Driver and front passenger 2-way power lumbar added to (AH8) Seat adjuster
(PDL) Luxury Package included on 1SB and 1SC
(PDP) Luxury Performance Package available on 1SA
(PDX) Sport Package available on 1SA and 1SB. Standard on 1SC
(LY7) 3.6L V6 Engine (260 hp) available on 1SA, standard on 1SB and 1SC
New design for (QF7) 17" aluminum painted wheels available on 1SA and 1SB
New design for (N93) 17" aluminum mirror-polish finish wheels standard on 1SC

Changes


Exterior color (25U) has name change from Blue Onyx to Blue Chip
Exterior color (41U) has name change from Sable Black to Black Raven
Engine water temperature gauge replaces clock in IP (late 2003 change)
(LA3) 3.2L V6 Engine standard on 1SA
(M35) 5-speed manual Getrag transmission standard on 1SA. Not available on 1SB or 1SC
(M82) 5-speed automatic transmission available on 1SA. Standard on 1SB and 1SC
(KA1) Heated driver and front passenger seats require (PDL) Luxury Package
(UAV) Sound system with DVD navigation now includes (U2K XM Satellite Radio)
(PF4) 16" aluminum painted wheels standard on 1SA
(PX0) 16" aluminum bright machined finish wheels standard on 1SB

You can check out the GM 2004 Online Order / Reference Guide by copy and pasting the link below into your browser.
http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/brandsel.jsp?year=2004&regionID=1

I was surprised to see no manual trans for the 3.6L engine. I hope this new
engine allows the CTS to get better gas mileage.

From what I have heard: many people have called their dealers to see if the no manual transmission on the 3.6L is a mistake or to complain about GM only offering it on the 3.2L. What the dealers have said is manual transmission CTS's only account for 2% of total CTS sales. Basicially put, if people don't buy, dealers stop ordering, and manufactures stop producing.

Originally posted by Tyler80
From what I have heard: many people have called their dealers to see if the no manual transmission on the 3.6L is a mistake or to complain about GM only offering it on the 3.2L. What the dealers have said is manual transmission CTS's only account for 2% of total CTS sales. Basicially put, if people don't buy, dealers stop ordering, and manufactures stop producing.

If that's the reason, then why keep the manual
at all? Maybe they should make the auto
standard and the manual and extra cost option
like is done with the Corvette. Then the
manual should be the same 6 speed that
goes into the CTS-V.

The CTS has only been out one model year
and probably has not attracted a high
percentage of people that were not already
considering a Cadillac purchase. If GM
wants to continue to compare the CTS
with the BMWs and be serious about it
then a manual is needed with all engine
options and especially the higher
performance engines.

if you ask me, the folks at GM are complicating the CTS...offer the 3.6L only with manual as an option and be done with it already!

Honestly I agree with Chuck. Make the options simple, switch over to the 3.6L, offer the manual as an option, not standard and be done with it.

If GM wants to continue to compare the CTS with the BMWs and be serious about it then a manual is needed with all engine options and especially the higher performance engines.

yes! let's talk about the new V6. Is it brand new? Anything special about it?

The optional engine is a ploy to keep the base msrp down ("see? almost no price increase!") while real-world prices jump. It will also guarantee the death of the manual transmission in all but the CSTv -- a shortsighted move in my opinion. If GM isn't selling manual transmissions they need to ask why instead of assuming there is no demand -- maybe their manual transmission is not competitive, or maybe the car is not attractive to sport-minded drivers. The competition offers manual transmissions. Production economies be damned, if you don't offer a manual, it's not a sports sedan, period.

.Jinx

If you had to guess, what do you think the price difference will be between a 2004 3.2L with automatic and a 2004 3.6L with automatic? I'd like to get the 3.6L (assuming I can hold out until the 2004 models roll out --but that's another issue), but if it means paying through the nose, forget it. Part of the reason I ask is become I'm torn about whether to buy a 2003 or try to suck it up and wait until the 2004s come out, but if I wait and the prices spike up, I may have been better off trying to get a 2003 dealer inventory at a "must clear inventory" price.

Very untrue! Mercedes only offers its amgs in automatic simply because even the best race car drivers in the world would not be able to beat the time of the automatic shifting. If you can make it work and it has a higher demand, why bother with a stick?

Originally posted by Chuck C
yes! let's talk about the new V6. Is it brand new? Anything special about it?

255HP with 252 ft-lbs of torque. This is
the GM high-feature V-6 with 4 valves
per cylinder and variable valve timing.

Originally posted by letsgored
If you had to guess, what do you think the price difference will be between a 2004 3.2L with automatic and a 2004 3.6L with automatic? I'd like to get the 3.6L (assuming I can hold out until the 2004 models roll out --but that's another issue), but if it means paying through the nose, forget it. Part of the reason I ask is become I'm torn about whether to buy a 2003 or try to suck it up and wait until the 2004s come out, but if I wait and the prices spike up, I may have been better off trying to get a 2003 dealer inventory at a "must clear inventory" price.

There will still be '03's on the lot when the
'04's arrive. You should have all the info
you need to make your decision by Aug.

In addtion to the engine, rumor is the interior
is getting an upgrade too. You will be able
to order the sport package without having
to get the luxury package with it.

Originally posted by letsgored
If you had to guess, what do you think the price difference will be between a 2004 3.2L with automatic and a 2004 3.6L with automatic? I'd like to get the 3.6L (assuming I can hold out until the 2004 models roll out --but that's another issue), but if it means paying through the nose, forget it. Part of the reason I ask is become I'm torn about whether to buy a 2003 or try to suck it up and wait until the 2004s come out, but if I wait and the prices spike up, I may have been better off trying to get a 2003 dealer inventory at a "must clear inventory" price.

my question is what do you consider a spike? i would think the 3.6 would add no more than 5-6% to the sticker, plus the price of the auto trans too i guess. for a few k you could get the better engine and it will probably hold a little better resale so some of the money is coming back to you anyway.

Originally posted by peccles
255HP with 252 ft-lbs of torque. This is
the GM high-feature V-6 with 4 valves
per cylinder and variable valve timing.

i believe the new v-6 is 260hp, at least thats what it has in the SRX, im assuming they will be using same enigne, not that 5hp is a big deal

ill correct myself before anyone else gets a chance...255 hp it is.


http://media.gm.com/news/releases/030327_engine.html

that's a great article...question: what does "drumming" from the oil pan mean?

http://media.gm.com/news/releases/030327_engine.html

"For example, 90 percent of the 3.6L V-6's peak torque is available across a remarkably broad operating range, from 1,600 rpm to 5,800 rpm. "

Yea baby!

Buildingctsamg,

Not quite. Mercedes offers their AMG's with automatics because that is their target market. Not many people want a luxury sedan with a manual.
Plus automatics sap power from the engine. Take a car with a manual and a car with an auto and put it on a chassis dyno and the manual will have more power at the wheels everytime.
A manual also can shift faster than an automatic. (with a good driver of course).

You might be thinking of the manual transmissions that have been modified to shift automatically, like BMW's SMG and Ferrari's automanual. These transmissions rip off lightning quick shifts, fasster than any human can do. Even quicker than sequential manual transmissions that do not require the clutch to be used for an upshift or downshift.
Since these are manual transmissions they do not have torque convertors and do not cost hp like a automatic does.

Porsche is not included in this list because it is an automatic that has been modified to shift manually if the operator wants.
It's acceleration times are slower than a manual's.

In 2005, the 3.2-liter V-6 will be dropped, and the 3.6-liter V-6 will be available with a six-speed manual, says Jim Federico, GM's chief engineer for prestige vehicles


thats from an automotive news article, sorry no link, you have to be registered for it to work. if you are registered go to the site and do a search for CTS

Originally posted by b4z
You might be thinking of the manual transmissions that have been modified to shift automatically, like BMW's SMG and Ferrari's automanual. These transmissions rip off lightning quick shifts, fasster than any human can do. Even quicker than sequential manual transmissions that do not require the clutch to be used for an upshift or downshift.
Since these are manual transmissions they do not have torque convertors and do not cost hp like a automatic does.

i don't get it. System used by BMW and ferrari are sequential manuals.

And most companies do not use sequential manual instead they use an automatic with little bit more human control

i might be misunderstanding you devil and this topic seems familiar as well, but the sequential manuals are NOT just automatics with more control. they are designed like manual transmissions, no torque convertor, etc.

Originally posted by Brett
i might be misunderstanding you devil and this topic seems familiar as well, but the sequential manuals are NOT just automatics with more control. they are designed like manual transmissions, no torque convertor, etc.

edit for ya

Originally posted by Brett
In 2005, the 3.2-liter V-6 will be dropped, and the 3.6-liter V-6 will be available with a six-speed manual, says Jim Federico, GM's chief engineer for prestige vehicles

GM probably thinks a large majority
of people will opt for the 3.6L and they
will probably be right. It would be costly
to keep the 3.2L around just for the CTS.

They should make the magnetic ride
control an option for the '05 model year.

ahh...thanks devil, i knew you knew what you were talking about

My term "sequential manual" was used to describe a racing transmission where they just pull on the lever backwards or forwards to shift.
They still have a clutch pedal to start the car off and can still use it if they want.
Not the type of transmission used by Ferrari and BMW in their street cars.
Sorry for the confusion.

So is 2004 worth waiting for?

i would say yes, why have the outdated equipment when you can wait a few months to get the new stuff. I've read the New v-6 will start appearing in sep-oct. If you want a 5 speed you might as well buy now, since the engine will be the same

Ehhh? So whats the story here???

2003 gets 3.2 liter engine, 5 speed manual or Auto

but

2004 gets 3.6 liter engine with auto trans, but in 2004 if you guy a manual CTS you get the old 3.2 liter engine, but with 6 speeds instead of 5???

Is that how it's going to be?

That makes utterly no sense to me, why would they make the manual tranny car come with a smaller engine in a $30k+ SPORTS SEDAN car? In fact, if this is true it downright PISSES ME OFF. This is the kind of crap that is sending GM right down the drain...

someone please tell me that it's not true, that all CTS cars, both manual and auto, will be getting the 3.6 right? PLEASE!!

Nope

3.6 is auto only

3.2 is 5 speed only

2005 model: all models will have 3.6 with either auto or 6 speed

well, thats great... I guess the guys that managed Oldsmobile into oblivion got transfered to Cadillac. What a wonderful marketing strategy for caddy's "reputation changing" sports sedan.

"Let's hose those inbreds that want a true sports sedan (you know the ones, folks that want to use it as an actual sports sedan and row their own gears - those people are stupid for looking at a Caddy!), and reward the folks that just want to putt-putt down to the bank to cash their social security check and get to the Country Kitchen before the 4pm dinner price change - they are our true audience for this car anyway - let's make those sports-sedan inbred guys that want a stick pay $20k more to get the CTSv, yeah, we'll hose'em good and rake in the dough..."

A $20k option package to get a V8 in the CTS, and now this brainiac plan... can you tell I'm pissed and VERY VERY dissapointed at GM and Cadillac for screwing this up sooooooo badly? I do honestly try to buy American, I own Chevy and Harley right now for just that reason, but these people at Cadillac really are just pushing me directly toward the imports AND I REALLY DONT WANT AN IMPORT. They seem to purposely be trying to just piss off people they are trying to market too! We simply want a true American sports sedan. That is what they promised, that is NOT what they are delivering... we are getting the same old caddy, the same old thinking, the same old BS marketing lies.

yup...

Time to head to the Infiniti dealer and get that 6spd G35 sedan I guess. :-(

Dont forget to throw in the fact that all the people who bought the first year model are rewarded with a lame duck engine.

Originally posted by Brett
Dont forget to throw in the fact that all the people who bought the first year model are rewarded with a lame duck engine.

Imagine how ticked off early XLR adopters will be when one or two model years later the thing gets a blower and pumps 400+hp.

maybe I'll buy a used '03 or '04 in 3 or 4 years, resale values on CTS 5 speeds with the lame 3.2 will likely plummet... like the Cimarron and Catera! dime a dozen

can you tell I'm still mad?

Originally posted by Brett
Dont forget to throw in the fact that all the people who bought the first year model are rewarded with a lame duck engine.

that's one fast lame duck for doing 0-60 in low 7~under 7. :)

They will offer a manual with the 3.6L later; my understanding is that it is just not ready yet.

Cadillac often brings out body/engine updates in steps; look at the 92/93 Seville STS update -- new body in 92, new engine (Northstar) in 93. Worked just fine.
It is confusing as to why Cadillac chose to 'redesign' the 3L engine to 3.2L just for such short use. The 3.2L will still be available in 04 and perhaps beyond apparently. There is also a 2.6L version available or slated for Europe. And I am glad that the 03 had the boost to 220 hp.
Certainly with the CTS selling every car they could make it is hard to criticize their strategy!

Overall, though, I am much more excited about the new 3.6L V6 engine & family than the older engines. 255/260 hp in 04, more to follow.

The 20K CTS-V is more than 'a V8 in a CTS'. With the numerous changes (suspension, transmission, engine, wheelbase!) I would characterize it as the track version of the CTS. Certainly if Cadillac does go into ALMS with the CTS, this one is the one that is going. People may find that these are too much like the M3 -- not really a great car for off track. Cadillac only plans to sell a few thousand, so these may not depreciate enough to be affordable used either -- start and stay expensive.
The M3 and M5 only sell 1k or 1,500 each year btw. But they help to sell a lot of BMW's.

Spike,

I'm not sure why you're angry on this issue. First, it's common practice to stagger the release of variations of a model. Inifiniti first came out with the G35 Sedan with only an automatic. Months later they intoduced the G35 Coupe with a more powerful engine not offered in the sedan. Finally, the G35 Sedan will get the six speed.

When BMW introduces the new 5 series, the new M5 won't come along for several months. And last I checked, an M5 costs $70K where an entry level 525i is in the mid-30s. M3's go for about $50K while 323is start in the late 20's and go up from there. This pricing structure is common in the industry.

In the case of the CTS, the staggering is part marketing, part technical. The new 3.6L V6 obviously wasn't ready in time for the car's launch, so they substituted the older engine. The 3.6L V6 + 6 speed manual wasn't ready for 2004 either, so the older combo will still be offered for the time being. At least they are offering one at all (knowing full well they won't sell many of them).

If I had a beef, I'd more complain about Cadillac not having its entire engineering act together when they introduce a product. The real problem is having to wait 6-12 months for what obviously was the intended drivetrain.

What? So I have to spend $50,000 to get a manual CTS next year? This is why no one likes GM. Once they have it right, they gotta do something to make it worse. It was like that for the Impala and Caprice too. RWD, 260 hp, tachometer, center console with floor shift, and boom its gone. I dont get it. Give the people what they want GM!!!! Sorry, I cant wait 3 more years for a manual CTS. July 26 is the date we are able to buy and if theres no auto base CTS at the end of the year, well, I'm just not going to trade in a 6 cylinder automatic for another 6 cylinder automatic thats $30,000 more expensive. Oh and did I mention that the 6 cylinder we have now is 4.0 Litre? And its inline! When you buy a Cadillac, you upsize the engine, not down! lol

03Esc,
You can get a manual. The '04 CTS will be offering a manual with the current 3.2L engine. And if you're buying in July you might be able to get a good deal on a '03 manual in dealer stock. Yes, the new 3.6L is a great addition, but the 3.2L is a very good engine for the CTS for all but street-drag purposes.

If I recall, the Impala died because all of the other cars built on that frame (e.g., Fleetwood) were having dismal sales. If GM had kept producing it simply for the Impala, that car would have stopped being the bargain it was.