: Saw a Bonneville today



mccombie_5
08-06-05, 06:23 PM
I know you guys see them every day, but i saw one today and it looked nice. It stood out to me as i drove past, black.....and shiney :D what a fine automobile, now why do we have to import nice cars like that to this country instead of them selling them here? :rant2:

ben72227
08-06-05, 06:27 PM
A Bonneville? Nice? You must be really deprived of American cars over there. It's so nice that they're killing it off this year.:sneaky:And thank god for that. It hasn't been anything special since, well, a long time. Even when the put a Northstar in it *cringes at the thought*, it still was just mediocre and cost too much for a Pontiac.

Maybe the G8 will be nice though...(that's the replacement for the Bonneville and Gran Prix). We will just have to wait and see...

EDIT: To illustrate my point about how much the Bonneville sucks, I will show you a comparison between the Bonneville GXP and the Camry XLE (which happens to be $10,000 less than the Pontiac):

Camry Console, with Wood Grain AND climate control. Notice the refined layout and buttons/knobs.
http://fp.images.autos.msn.com/merismus/evox/stills/gallery/2175_55.jpg
The $35,000 Pontiac with that SAME radio that they've used for the last, what 10 years? with those huge buttons and skanky looking A/C knobs. Even the shifter looks like its from 1995... and all of that misplaced Plastic...YUCK
http://fp.images.autos.msn.com/merismus/evox/stills/gallery/1868_55.jpg
Here's more of a closeup:
Camry:
http://fp.images.autos.msn.com/merismus/evox/stills/gallery/2175_57.jpg
Pontiac.
http://fp.images.autos.msn.com/merismus/evox/stills/gallery/1868_57.jpg

As for the exterior, the Camry is better, but they both look alright, except for the taillights on the Pontiac, once again, look so 90s...

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 06:51 PM
A Bonneville? Nice? You must be really deprived of American cars over there. It's so nice that they're killing it off this year.:sneaky:And thank god for that. It hasn't been anything special since, well, a long time. Even when the put a Northstar in it *cringes at the thought*, it still was just mediocre and cost too much for a Pontiac.

Maybe the G8 will be nice though...(that's the replacement for the Bonneville and Gran Prix). We will just have to wait and see...

We are very deprived, there just isnt demand, Cadillac flopped here twice, i mean CADILLAC! and also numerous others, there is only me who wants them :yup:

Id buy that car for the legendary name "Bonneville" sounds so good. and the one i saw did look great


Ok ben you got me, Check mate. The Camry wins hands down, it pains me to say that

Kev
08-06-05, 06:58 PM
Ben, you have to understand that for McCombie to see a Bonneville there in the UK would be like it was for us here to have seen a Jag XKE actually running and driving on the raods back in the 60's and 70's. Very rare indeed. :D

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 07:05 PM
Ben, you have to understand that for McCombie to see a Bonneville there in the UK would be like it was for us here to have seen a Jag XKE actually running and driving on the raods back in the 60's and 70's. Very rare indeed. :D

Exactly, and you mean an E-Type right? :) my dad had one in 1969 :) but although the Bonneville is crappy, it just seems exotic to us, like in many ways my lacs are to my friends and family, i was driving past and swung my head around thinking my eyes were deceiving me. I shouted out to my wife "thats a Bonneville!" her reply? "whats a Bonneville? ohhhh you mean a Pontiac? i see:) )

Boombotz
08-06-05, 07:07 PM
Just be glad you don't see the Aztec there.

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 07:12 PM
Just be glad you don't see the Aztec there.

Id close my eyes :p

Boombotz
08-06-05, 07:16 PM
Id close my eyes :p

If it is the yellow one you would still see it.

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 07:17 PM
If it is the yellow one you would still see it.

Stop it! im thinking about it now, i will have nightmares

Boombotz
08-06-05, 07:18 PM
Put on your sunglasses

http://www.warroad.k12.mn.us/community/lakecountry/graphics/yellowAztec.jpg

Kev
08-06-05, 07:18 PM
Exactly, and you mean an E-Type right? :) my dad had one in 1969 :) but although the Bonneville is crappy, it just seems exotic to us, like in many ways my lacs are to my friends and family, i was driving past and swung my head around thinking my eyes were deceiving me. I shouted out to my wife "thats a Bonneville!" her reply? "whats a Bonneville? ohhhh you mean a Pontiac? i see:) )http://www.carolinatrophy.com/gallery/1969_jag_XKE_w_unger.jpg

http://www.rodworksinc.com/images/69j8l.jpg

Did it resemble these? I remember guys complaining about how much shop time they required. Some got fed up and there was a popular trend of replacing the Jag engine and tranny with a Chevy 350 and either a TH400 (automatic) or M-21 (4-speed).http://http://www.carolinatrophy.com/gallery/1969_jag_XKE_w_unger.jpg

addison_ii
08-06-05, 07:20 PM
Just be glad you don't see the Aztec there.
You mean the 1980's Pontiac Lemans with the 2000 twist and a lift kit?:)

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 07:24 PM
http://www.carolinatrophy.com/gallery/1969_jag_XKE_w_unger.jpg

http://www.rodworksinc.com/images/69j8l.jpg

Did it resemble these? I remember guys complaining about how much shop time they required. Some got fed up and there was a popular trend of replacing the Jag engine and tranny with a Chevy 350 and either a TH400 (automatic) or M-21 (4-speed).http://http://www.carolinatrophy.com/gallery/1969_jag_XKE_w_unger.jpg

Exactly the saem although my dads was in BRG. His was a 1962 Series one. Convertible like that, although it was my first drive, and i dont remember it being in the shop all too much.... and you cannot replace the engine and tranny! Its like ripping its guts out!

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 07:31 PM
You mean the 1980's Pontiac Lemans with the 2000 twist and a lift kit?:)


That is a Vauxhall Astra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The post 89 models anyway, well its a small world!

That is the mk2 astra

Here is the 3:

http://www.hewittsclassiccars.co.uk/hcc/cars/img_1266.jpg

The 3.5:

http://www.leidinger-tuning.de/images/medium/270101.jpg
(my wifes is like that but blue)

The 4:

http://www.peter-waugh.co.uk/astraclub1.jpg

And the Current one: the 5:

http://imagesgmeurope2.free.fr/images/allemagne/opel/2005_astra_gtc_34.jpg

So that is what the Lemans may look like if they still made it
Sorry about my initial excitemnt, i just thought that they never sold that out of Europe....

Kev
08-06-05, 07:33 PM
Exactly the saem although my dads was in BRG. His was a 1962 Series one. Convertible like that, although it was my first drive, and i dont remember it being in the shop all too much.... and you cannot replace the engine and tranny! Its like ripping its guts out!BRG was the best thing about Jags, Healy's and MG's. I loved that color.

Some guys here just got tired of messing with British engineering, too high maintainance. They'd rip the guts right out as you say and drop a real engine in. It was smooth sailing for them after that. No more break downs and headaches! Plus, they were much quicker and faster.

The most popular item from a Jag was it's rear differential. It's was a favorite for classic hot rodders. They were highly prized for '32 Ford Deuce Coupe rods. Often turned by Chevy small blocks and trannys.

Ralph
08-06-05, 07:35 PM
I'll take a Bonney over a Camry ANYDAY!

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 07:37 PM
BRG was the best thing about Jags, Healy's and MG's. I loved that color.

Some guys here just got tired of messing with British engineering, too high maintainance. They'd rip the guts right out as you say and drop a real engine in. It was smooth sailing for them after that. No more break downs and headaches! Plus, they were much quicker and faster.

The most popular item from a Jag was it's rear differential. It's was a favorite for classic hot rodders. They were highly prized for '32 Ford Deuce Coupe rods. Often turned by Chevy small blocks and trannys.

Oh well do what you will, i just dont think that kinda thing can be messed with......i think the engines/trannys would have been better if they were built right, design, IMO was good. i just think it would totally ruin the balance of the car if you put nyhting other than an original Jaguar engine in

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 07:40 PM
I'll take a Bonney over a Camry ANYDAY!

Looking at the interior dashboard id have doubts...but id buy it for the name:D

Kev
08-06-05, 07:42 PM
Oh well do what you will, i just dont think that kinda thing can be messed with......i think the engines/trannys would have been better if they were built right, design, IMO was good. i just think it would totally ruin the balance of the car if you put nyhting other than an original Jaguar engine inAs I've said in other posts, we Yanks can't leave well enough alone. It's never fast enough for our tastes! MORE POWER! WOOH WOOH!

You'd probably loose your tea and crumpets if you'd seen an XKE with a hole in the bonnet and a Jimmy 671 blower sporting dual Holley 650 Double Pumpers sticking out of it!

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 07:49 PM
As I've said in other posts, we Yanks can't leave well enough alone. It's never fast enough for our tastes! MORE POWER! WOOH WOOH!

You'd probably loose your tea and crumpets if you'd seen an XKE with a hole in the bonnet and a Jimmy 671 blower sporting dual Holley 650 Double Pumpers sticking out of it!

Loose them? id throw them at it and kick and scream shouting "look what they did to that car". Power isnt always needed though, you are yet to learn that ;) i dont think an Etype needed to peel your skin off with acceleration, becauseit had the most precise handling

Kev
08-06-05, 08:26 PM
Loose them? id throw them at it and kick and scream shouting "look what they did to that car". Power isnt always needed though, you are yet to learn that ;) i dont think an Etype needed to peel your skin off with acceleration, becauseit had the most precise handling
http://s7.imagehosting.us/uploadpoint/imagehosting_upload_storage/user_10116/T0_10116_525134.jpg

:D

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 08:39 PM
http://s7.imagehosting.us/uploadpoint/imagehosting_upload_storage/user_10116/T0_10116_525134.jpg

:D

(throws tea and crumpets) what did they do to that poor beaufiul baby (other than photochopped it) whoever did that must suffer, you cannot mess with that car, :want: :want: :want: (is dragged away) :gun:

Kev
08-06-05, 08:43 PM
I do have a buddy who owns two MG's one is a MG convertable with a Ford 289 in it, the other is a MGBGT with a 302. They are fun little buggers!

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 08:47 PM
I do have a buddy who owns two MG's one is a MG convertable with a Ford 289 in it, the other is a MGBGT with a 302. They are fun little buggers!


:nono: i feel like crying now. why do you keep breaking our stuff? :nono: It was good! Stop breaking it already. If theres anythign in need of fixing its the bodies..... leave the small well balanced engines alone :cookoo: :yup:

Stoneage_Caddy
08-06-05, 08:49 PM
Id buy that car for the legendary name "Bonneville" sounds so good. and the one i saw did look great



mccombie , you have bonneville mixed up with bonneville ....as in the finely crafted brittish motocycle ...

but like you i for some reason have been attracted to the pontiac bonneville for many, many years ...most folks here in the us hate pontiacs , no matter what they are ....

looking at those pics the camry interior makes me yawn ....the bonnie looks great to me .....the GXP was about as perfect as a FWD pontiac could ever be ....

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 08:58 PM
Well i did know of the bike, but the Bonneville in car form has for a long time appealed to me as a good looking sporty sedan. If i was in america, it would be in the Driveway in place of my Vectra. I have always known it to be an exotic, and very good looking family sports car.

WHY DO THEY HATE PONTIAC? maybe if they dropped the Aztec, the Vibe and that Montana thing that we got here in 1993 as a Vauxhall, they would be on to a winner, because all of the other cars, the GTO, Bonneville, Grand Prix, Grand Am are good looking sporting sedans.....

Is the Rainfire, i mean Sunfire, due for replacement soon? Its a Chevy Cavalier for Petes sake!

Sandy
08-06-05, 09:04 PM
I am with Ralph! I'd get a Bonneville GXP over Sum Dum Toyopet Camay anyday !

Roomier, faster, more prestigous, larger rims/tires, more horsepower, finer leather, and .... American! (I would NOT want the lessor model(s) however, they are crappy :(

The ASS-TECH is baaad, really bad ~ but no uglier than that Scion Box on wheels thingiee.

Stoneage_Caddy
08-06-05, 09:06 PM
most americans hate the GTO because it doesnt have 77 scoops, wings ,and spoilers on it and they hate it because it handles well and that they cant carry golf clubs in it..they hate that it doesnt have garish loud styleing ...they dont realize the 63 tempest on which the original GTO was based didnt have loud styleing either .... it was really a rather humble car ....

americans hate the Bonneville because it has 77 wings spolilers and scoops ...go figure

they hate the grand prix because it isnt built in japan and doesnt have a 24 valve v6

the grand am is a peice of junk ...it kept coming close to being a really great car but lways fell just short of it....but they sold very well in the 80s

the sunfire is about dead ....pontiac of canada gets a version of the new chevy cobalt called "persuit"... here in the US we will have just the vibe as the basic car ...

the US loves the vibe because it is built by a japanese comapny ....

Kev
08-06-05, 09:08 PM
I am with Ralph! I'd get a Bonneville GXP over Sum Dum Toyopet Camay anyday !

Roomier, faster, more prestigous, larger rims/tires, more horsepower, finer leather, and .... American! (I would NOT want the lessor model(s) however, they are crappy :(

The ASS-TECH is baaad, really bad ~ but no uglier than that Scion Box on wheels thingiee.:yeah: :2thumbs::werd:

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 09:16 PM
most americans hate the GTO because it doesnt have 77 scoops, wings ,and spoilers on it and they hate it because it handles well and that they cant carry golf clubs in it..they hate that it doesnt have garish loud styleing ...they dont realize the 63 tempest on which the original GTO was based didnt have loud styleing either .... it was really a rather humble car ....

americans hate the Bonneville because it has 77 wings spolilers and scoops ...go figure

they hate the grand prix because it isnt built in japan and doesnt have a 24 valve v6

the grand am is a peice of junk ...it kept coming close to being a really great car but lways fell just short of it....but they sold very well in the 80s

the sunfire is about dead ....pontiac of canada gets a version of the new chevy cobalt called "persuit"... here in the US we will have just the vibe as the basic car ...

the US loves the vibe because it is built by a japanese comapny ....


You guys make no sense! The Grand Am does need modernising, but if GM would stop trying to kill itself off by selling the wrong cars under the wrong brands, they might be able to deal with this, i mean, what is the Aztecs purpose? nothing? DROP IT! Its awful, the Montana? who wants a MPV from a sports car manuafacturer? and the Vibe is useless. I like both the Bonneville and the GTO, the GTO doesnt need Wings and all that crap, its a GTO, who would put golf clubs in a Pontiac? Get a Buick! The Grand Prix is a beautiful car! I think the solution is: Drop anything that has an up and over tailgate (leaving only sedans and Coupes, then Put V8s in them all :) Sorry for the rant but it needed to be aid, Pointiacs are legendary cars, and i think there is no better US sporting sedan than a pontiac...... yes a cadillac is sporty, but its more luxury. A pointiac is sport. Trans Am? Firebird? GTO? all pointiacs..... and V8 ones. If they cut the crap and concertated making the sedans and coupes into good Pontiacs the would have a goldmine....

Adam
08-06-05, 09:25 PM
I'll take a Bonney...ANYDAY!

HA :D... nevermind! *laughs*that is the best one yet! :histeric: Ralph, you make this too easy.

Mccombie, you really need a black on black Fleetwood. man i seen one today at Hobby Lobby (dont anyone say anything) and it was so beautiful. i can just imagine you runnin around the streets of... well im not sure where... in that big thing and you can find that Bonneville owner and make him jealous.

mccombie_5
08-06-05, 09:30 PM
HA :D... nevermind! *laughs*that is the best one yet! :histeric: Ralph, you make this too easy.

Mccombie, you really need a black on black Fleetwood. man i seen one today at Hobby Lobby (dont anyone say anything) and it was so beautiful. i can just imagine you runnin around the streets of... well im not sure where... in that big thing and you can find that Bonneville owner and make him jealous.

The streets of Newcastle Upon Tyne ;) and i wouldnt want to own a Pontiac in this country anyway, i just think they make nice sedans, and coupes, the rest is just crap....

I could make the Bonney owner jealous by driving any of my cars (bar maybe the Vectra) past him, but i was in the Vectra today :banghead: Im waiting for the wife to return from PAris so shes in a good mood when i ask her, thats where i as going this morning when i saw the Bonneville, i was taking her to the airport.......and driving the other way was the Bonney... she got there ok and rented a smart car for her and my daughter :)

addison_ii
08-06-05, 09:34 PM
HA :D... nevermind! *laughs*that is the best one yet! :histeric: Ralph, you make this too easy.

Mccombie, you really need a black on black Fleetwood. man i seen one today at Hobby Lobby (dont anyone say anything) and it was so beautiful. i can just imagine you runnin around the streets of... well im not sure where... in that big thing and you can find that Bonneville owner and make him jealous.

You're persistant. But I agree. Get a Fleetwood and cruise Big Body style in the U.K. Very Prime Ministeresque. Can you imagine the looks as you are seen motoring down roads in the U.K. in your "Yank Yacht" the voluptuous Fleetwood by Cadillac Motor Car Company. (winks at 93fleetwoodlowlow);) I got your back buddy.

Adam
08-06-05, 09:41 PM
You're persistant. But I agree. Get a Fleetwood and cruise Big Body style in the U.K. Very Prime Ministeresque. Can you imagine the looks as you are seen motoring down roads in the U.K. in your "Yank Yacht" the voluptuous Fleetwood by Cadillac Motor Car Company. (winks at 93fleetwoodlowlow);) I got your back buddy.

ha, thanks! i just want him to have one of the nicest cars ever made. you know, i might go down in history as having helped to get a Fleetwood Brougham to the UK. i was reading Rides magazine today and there was a picture of a 93-96 Fleetwood kicking a three wheel. it said something like "A Fleetwood by Cadillac sitting on three. King of the hood, and probably yours too." something of that nature anyway. i was like YEAH!

ben72227
08-06-05, 09:47 PM
WHY DO THEY HATE PONTIAC?

The same reason they hate GM in general - for YEARS, GM made badge-engineered cars (they still do in some instances, i.e. the Montana) that are mediocre to begin with, don't belong in their respective division (i.e. Pontiac Montana, Cadillac Cimmaron:nono:, etc.), are overpriced, sold by (for the most part) terrible dealers, and to top it off, their reliabilty pales in comparison to the Japs. GMs were once known as the cars that would spend more time in the mechanic's garage than in yours.:histeric:And since Hondas (for the most part) NEVER go to a mechanic except for routine maintainence/oil changes, people buy them. And their value doesn't depreciate either like the American cars do.

Unfortunately too, most Chevy's/Pontiacs were dumbed down for the general public and GM's main consumer group (dumb rednecks that wanted that "like a rock:histeric:" Chevy Silverado:rolleyes: ) who didn't know what fine automobiles were because they would NEVER even think about getting a Jap/German car.

AND, GM has a bad habbit about never updating their cars, and when they do update them, often times they turn out no better, or even worse (i.e. updating the Cadillac line in '86).

Now, of course, they are changing, but its going to take a lot to even get close to the Japs. For example, the new G6 is nice, much nicer than its predecesor (the Grand Am 5th Gen), but in terms of Jap cars, well its about where Jap cars were 5 years ago. That is, its good, but not as good as say, the '05 Toyota models. And then, you have some cars that just needed to be dropped/redesigned for the LONGEST time (i.e. the whole Saturn lineup:rolleyes:, Pontiac Aztec/Bonneville/Grand Everything/Sunfire/Montana, Chevy Cavalier/other J-cars, F body Camaro/Firebird, etc.) and they either took too long to do it, or had no real replacement, or even are still waiting to do it (in the case of Saturn - we won't get a replacement until '07 when the AURA comes out along with the new Epsilon Malibu).

Now, they are bringing out good products - the Pontiac Solstice holds its own against the Honda S2000 and Mazda Miata, at least in terms of styling, but you always have that reliability issue....And the Impala is 3rd most selling family sedan (after the Camry/Accord), and of course you have Art and Science based Cadillacs:)...So I estimate that by 2010, GM should have purged its brands of crappy vehicles and have decent replacements, and I also think that they will most likely drop one of the brands - Buick or Saab - and merge them with Cadillac or Pontiac. I mean, since Cadillacs (CTS and BLS) are in the same price range as Buick now, and since Saturn is going to be overhauled as the European-styled, near-luxury brand now, Buick is losing its position....

addison_ii
08-06-05, 09:49 PM
ha, thanks! i just want him to have one of the nicest cars ever made. you know, i might go down in history as having helped to get a Fleetwood Brougham to the UK.Not to mention it might make Chief Executive Ian Stratford and Lord Mayor David Serge Slesenger quite jealous.:) Due to the fact that he has a better car than they do.

Ralph
08-06-05, 09:54 PM
Now, of course, they are changing, but its going to take a lot to even get close to the Japs..

Not necessarily...

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Vehicle_Reviews/Sedans_and_Coupes/2006_Chevrolet_Impala.S180.A9027.html


"Chevy pointedly adds that the 2005 Impala beat Accord, Altima, Five Hundred and 300, and topped Camry for the fifth straight year, in Power's 2005 IQS ratings."

I'm a little tired of people NOT giving credit where credit is due. :tisk: ;)

In ther top 5 with JD, there is a Cadillac and a Buick. did I miss any??

ben72227
08-06-05, 10:52 PM
I'll give them credit - Cadillac and Buick (the top of the line luxury brands) are great cars for the most part. But as for the bread and butter cars (Pontiac, Chevy, Saturn) there leaves something to be desired (see the $35,000 Pontiac interior pictures on the first page of this thread:thumbsup: )

And they are catching up, but they haven't dethroned Lexus from the top just quite yet...and GM is still REbuilding its reputation after all of those terrible cars, wheras Honda and Toyota BUILT their reputation by avoiding terrible cars. So yes, GM has come a LONG way from Roger Smith, but they still have a ways to go...

Ralph
08-06-05, 11:40 PM
I'll give them credit - Cadillac and Buick (the top of the line luxury brands) are great cars for the most part. But as for the bread and butter cars (Pontiac, Chevy, Saturn) there leaves something to be desired (see the $35,000 Pontiac interior pictures on the first page of this thread:thumbsup: )

And they are catching up, but they haven't dethroned Lexus from the top just quite yet...and GM is still REbuilding its reputation after all of those terrible cars, wheras Honda and Toyota BUILT their reputation by avoiding terrible cars. So yes, GM has come a LONG way from Roger Smith, but they still have a ways to go...

Yet Toyota still is reluctant to admit the "Sludge" problem. Not to mention the "Rotten egg smell" problem that many Toyota Corolla owners have complained about. (check MSN-Owner reviews) They are NOT perfect and Godlike as they want you to believe.

As it is right now, if I sold my Cadillac I would buy an Ion the next day over a Honda Civic!! Barr none! Why?? Civic=115 hp, Ion=140hp. I've tested both and let me tell you, the advantage goes to GM for making Saturn on top of that class! And the largest trunk for that class. I have no problem with the interior of the Ion, and actually find it exciting over the boring gutless little Civic.

I think when the Solstace and Sky come out, MAGICALLY many people will FINALLY open up their eyes to GM and think "hey, maybe they aren't so bad after all, and they do make interesting, good cars." Those of us that are "enlightened" already know that Pontiac, Buick and Saturn make good cars today, you just have to look.

Drove the 1980 Pontiac Phoenix my Mom bought new in 1980 for 16 years to 250,000 kms and not a lick of trouble with the engine or transmission! And these cars were "written off" as lemons! The original starter motor lasted 19 years and I put a new one on it for my then fiance. Best and most fun car I ever had! Torquey V6 to boot! Not a creek or rattle to this day! Kept it MINT until it had to sit outside a couple years ago. The radiator lasted up until 2003 when we had it re-cored. Still running and the valve covers have never been off....PONTIAC builds good cars!

ben72227
08-07-05, 12:15 AM
Yet Toyota still is reluctant to admit the "Sludge" problem. Not to mention the "Rotten egg smell" problem that many Toyota Corolla owners have complained about. (check MSN-Owner reviews) They are NOT perfect and Godlike as they want you to believe.

I'm not saying they're perfect, but Toyota is MUCH better than GM. And Honda IS perfect FYI:devil:no matter how hard you try to knock them down.



As it is right now, if I sold my Cadillac I would buy an Ion the next day over a Honda Civic!! Barr none! Why?? Civic=115 hp, Ion=140hp.

I wouldn't get a Civic either - I'd probably get a Mazda3. An Ion? Please. The same Ion that has the instrument panel in the middle of the dash?:

http://fp.images.autos.msn.com/merismus/evox/stills/gallery/2845_55.jpg

Geez. I hope they fired that retard GM designer. What were they thinking? Everything about this car is pretty much terrible, even with the REDLINE edition. It does have those dent-resistent side pannels:p though...Get rid of this thing and just have one compact car - the Cobalt...

I'd rather have a Mazda3 though:
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/images/vehicles/pho_gallery_MZ3_int6_popup.jpg
That leather-wrapped 3-spoke racing wheel, along with that sexy orange lighting, just makes my day...

Ralph
08-07-05, 12:25 AM
I like the Ion dash. I also tested the Mazda 3 (tested pretty much everything in that class, even liked the Dodge SX 2.0-most comfortable and supportive seats) but I just don't like all that red lighting on the 3's dash. I also didn't like the colours of the dark interiors of every Mazda 3 I have seen. Right now, there is a nice aqua blue Ion with a beige leather interior at our dealership that I would like. (Ion 3, fully loaded, power everything) I always "pick one out" just in case. :shhh: Of course it cannot compare to a Cadillac, but they are good cars for what I need, and many others. With gas over a buck a litre, they have to be considered IMO. I will not have a "Smart" car, and there are a couple of those little golf carts already running around. Maybe it's ok for around town, but that thing would get thrown around so bad on a highway with a gust of wind, or passing a semi..... :histeric:

Ralph
08-07-05, 12:34 AM
Another thing, the Ion was COMPLETLY planted and solid on the HW even having a semi pass with a huge gust of wind! Even at 130 kph, it remained quiet and smooth! I was sold! The Civic took forever to get up to that speed, the Corolla was only SLIGHTLY better. A big part of safety IMO is having enough power to be able to pass and avoid an accident, etc. Getting across those intersections QUICKLY was no problem for the Saturn.

ben72227
08-07-05, 12:37 AM
I will not have a "Smart" car, and there are a couple of those little golf carts already running around. Maybe it's ok for around town, but that thing would get thrown around so bad on a highway with a gust of wind, or passing a semi..... :histeric:

:annoyed:WHAT? That "smart" car (whatever thats supposed to mean) puts out 160 HP, so I'm sure it would outperform your noisy 140 HP "Ecotec":rolleyes: Engine Ion. Not to mention the poor side crash ratings the Ion has...

Playdrv4me
08-07-05, 01:19 AM
The same reason they hate GM in general - for YEARS, GM made badge-engineered cars (they still do in some instances, i.e. the Montana) that are mediocre to begin with, don't belong in their respective division (i.e. Pontiac Montana, Cadillac Cimmaron:nono:, etc.), are overpriced, sold by (for the most part) terrible dealers, and to top it off, their reliabilty pales in comparison to the Japs. GMs were once known as the cars that would spend more time in the mechanic's garage than in yours.:histeric:And since Hondas (for the most part) NEVER go to a mechanic except for routine maintainence/oil changes, people buy them. And their value doesn't depreciate either like the American cars do.

Unfortunately too, most Chevy's/Pontiacs were dumbed down for the general public and GM's main consumer group (dumb rednecks that wanted that "like a rock:histeric:" Chevy Silverado:rolleyes: ) who didn't know what fine automobiles were because they would NEVER even think about getting a Jap/German car.

AND, GM has a bad habbit about never updating their cars, and when they do update them, often times they turn out no better, or even worse (i.e. updating the Cadillac line in '86).

Now, of course, they are changing, but its going to take a lot to even get close to the Japs. For example, the new G6 is nice, much nicer than its predecesor (the Grand Am 5th Gen), but in terms of Jap cars, well its about where Jap cars were 5 years ago. That is, its good, but not as good as say, the '05 Toyota models. And then, you have some cars that just needed to be dropped/redesigned for the LONGEST time (i.e. the whole Saturn lineup:rolleyes:, Pontiac Aztec/Bonneville/Grand Everything/Sunfire/Montana, Chevy Cavalier/other J-cars, F body Camaro/Firebird, etc.) and they either took too long to do it, or had no real replacement, or even are still waiting to do it (in the case of Saturn - we won't get a replacement until '07 when the AURA comes out along with the new Epsilon Malibu).

Now, they are bringing out good products - the Pontiac Solstice holds its own against the Honda S2000 and Mazda Miata, at least in terms of styling, but you always have that reliability issue....And the Impala is 3rd most selling family sedan (after the Camry/Accord), and of course you have Art and Science based Cadillacs:)...So I estimate that by 2010, GM should have purged its brands of crappy vehicles and have decent replacements, and I also think that they will most likely drop one of the brands - Buick or Saab - and merge them with Cadillac or Pontiac. I mean, since Cadillacs (CTS and BLS) are in the same price range as Buick now, and since Saturn is going to be overhauled as the European-styled, near-luxury brand now, Buick is losing its position....

Yup, I think that is a very accurate analysis. Ill tell you what, I never thought of this til now that Im looking for a cheap used car, but boy does that depreciation help on the FLIP-side!!

I am finding CHERRY 1998 Mark VIII's with 27-35K miles for 7995-10900. Do you realize what a FRIGGIN STEAL that is for the technology and performance that car gives you? Were talking about a 42000.00 vehicle for cripes sakes. Then I was even MORE surprised to see 2001 STS's in decked out trim with 50-60k miles for 13-14000.00. THAT is a 55000.00 car. You can COUNT on the current 65k STS being in the 25k range in about 3 years!

For shits and giggles I then looked up 1998 740iL's and unfortunately wasnt as pleased, only the bottom of the barrel, 100000 mile units are even coming close to 12k now. You could still EASILY pay upwards of 20000.00 for a low mileage 1998 740iL and FORGET Merc and Lexus... They are 18-25 PLUS for the same year in low mileage condition. It wouldnt be that way if peoples confidence in these vehicles as they got older stayed the same as when they first bought them. But consumers have gotten so used to being scared of out of warranty domestics they just dump them on the used market as soon as they hit 50k miles or end their lease. When someone pays buku bucks for a German or Japanese vehicle, they tend to look at it as an expensive but LONG-TERM proposition, meaning they tend to keep their vehicles for many more years. This is even DESPITE the fact that truthfully, at least the Europeans spend as much if not more time in the Garage as the domestics do.... but the consumer still perceives a higher level of overall quality.

Ralph
08-07-05, 01:38 AM
Yup, I think that is a very accurate analysis. Ill tell you what, I never thought of this til now that Im looking for a cheap used car, but boy does that depreciation help on the FLIP-side!!

See!!! I always told you not to worry about depreciation Ian, because you never keep a vehicle long enough anyway. :shhh: ;) The depreciation can work WITH you and not against you. :cool:

ben72227
08-07-05, 02:26 AM
Exactly, so I can afford my dream car ('93-'97 STS) now in a few more years just working at minimum wage summer jobs:sneaky:

Ralph
08-07-05, 02:29 AM
Exactly, so I can afford my dream car ('93-'97 STS) now in a few more years just working at minimum wage summer jobs:sneaky:

there ya go, LOL... :thumbsup:

majax
08-07-05, 02:40 AM
I did not know the E-type jag was so rare. A friend of mine brought a cream/yellow colored one to the high school car show. V12 and everything his father has a whole warehouse filled with top of the line cars.

I got 2nd in the modern catagory.

Cadence
08-07-05, 05:15 AM
Put on your sunglasses

http://www.warroad.k12.mn.us/community/lakecountry/graphics/yellowAztec.jpg

You should get 25 to life for that picture......:histeric:

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 06:02 AM
Well judging by this, i think its about time GM sorted out their build quality/reliability issues out, and once again start building fine cars.

Pontiac are sporting cars, so they need to be sporty coupes and sedans that are FAST. V6 lower models V8 top enders. And RWD!!

Chevlrolet need cost effective family carrying cars with SOME pace. A RWD V8 Impala would be wonderful here.

Cadillac are as far as can be seen on the up, and going the right way about it too, only small reliability issues.

Buick are mushmobiles for the nearly dead and golf course visiting alike. Keep thme this way, they hit their target market!

Saturn needs IMO change, i dont think a "budget" brand is so much needed, maybe they should fit in somewhere between Cadillac and Chevrolet.

Saab should be dropped in the US. It should continue in Europe because it will sell here.

Vauxhall/Opel/Holden are doing well for themselves, their reliability is good and the cars are what they need to be.

Chevrolet UK wekaens the brand name, being rebadged Deawoos.

If GM would sort out which cars should be sold by which brands, they would be laughing, who needs a Pontiac minivan? On the same scale, who needs aN SUV from saturn? If they moved themselves up the market it should be successful. GM are in a muddle, and it appears they dont know what their customers from the respective brands want. What about an Uber-Luxury minivan for Buick or at a push Cadillac? six or seven seats, all leather, good 8-10 speaker sound system, a decent V6 engine, or even better, a refined diesel. Drop the crap GM. It isnt working.

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 06:08 AM
I did not know the E-type jag was so rare. A friend of mine brought a cream/yellow colored one to the high school car show. V12 and everything his father has a whole warehouse filled with top of the line cars.

I got 2nd in the modern catagory.


The V12 is a series 3. IMO the Series 1 and 2 3.8 engines were better, most of the S3 cars were that cream/yellow colour. theres a guy in my area has an S3 V12 in that colour, i really dont like the grille on those.. Id take a S1 BRG convertible model please :) like dads old one.

Congrats, second isnt bad. What got first?

Jesda
08-07-05, 08:47 AM
I like the Bonneville GXP. Great interior, clean looks, strong drivetrain, and great value. Its sad that its disappearing now that its finally a proper sedan. I really dig the soft-touch surfaces and suede seats. The garish vents however need to go.

Sandy
08-07-05, 09:42 AM
Too Late. According to Automotive News, the final Bonneville was made the last work day before Memorial Day weekend, that being Friday, the 27th of May. Last call for dealers to submit orders was March 31st. 837 Bonnevilles were made in May. I would liked a GXP with Moonroof, Heated Seats, 12-Disc C.D. and Heads-Up Display, in the new-for-2005 Navy Blue with Lt. Beige Leather !! $36,000 MSRLP minus $1,500 Discount minus $3,600 Factory You pay what we pay, for like $31,000....... hard to beat that. :crying2:

Stoneage_Caddy
08-07-05, 11:23 AM
I'm not saying they're perfect, but Toyota is MUCH better than GM. And Honda IS perfect FYI:devil:no matter how hard you try to knock them down.



I wouldn't get a Civic either - I'd probably get a Mazda3. An Ion? Please. The same Ion that has the instrument panel in the middle of the dash?:


Ah yes toyota would NEVER put the Cluster in the middle of the dash ....or would they ...

May i present .....The Echo http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/ag/toyota_echo_4doorsedan_2005_interior_19_346x270.jp g

and what about those Toyota Hybrids that mysteriously DIE going down the road ...and no were not talking shutting down the gas engine ...we are talking complete shutdown ...

Or the MASSIVE recalls on Oddesy Minivans

What about the 3.0 Toyota V6 headgasket problems of the 90s ?

The mazda 3 is nice , for a reskinned ford focus ....and hey its the only other NEW car that left me stranded on a test drive ....tranny failure .....the other car (im quite honest here) a 2002 Honda Civic SI that i drove at "auto service comapny honda" of fairbanks alaska

Stoneage_Caddy
08-07-05, 11:26 AM
but wait ...what currently the most desireable comapct car out there right now ? the mini
http://thecabe.com/MINI/Mini%20Interior.jpg
nope no cluster in the middle there

but wait ..what does it have for an engine ? yes, a CHRYSLER 1.6... LOL

see what i mean ...if its badged as an american car people will automaticly hate it .....

Sandy
08-07-05, 11:36 AM
If a gun was put to my head, and I was forced to buy a Japanese car, (or die) my 1st choice would be an Infiniti Q45, my 2nd choice would be a Nissan Maxima top of the line and my 3rd choice was recently discontinued, that being the Mitsubishi Diamante ~ For a German car (God Forbid) it would be a Audi A8L W12 2+2 or a Audi S4. For a Sweedish Car, definately a Volvo S80 Premier. English? Jaguar XJ Super 8 - but I would not spend THAT kinda $$$ anyhow (same with the A8), so it would be a S-Type "R" Sedan.

Meanwhile I'll stick with Cadillac & Lincoln, in Red, Whte or Blue. ;)

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 12:03 PM
If a gun was put to my head, and I was forced to buy a Japanese car, (or die) my 1st choice would be an Infiniti Q45, my 2nd choice would be a Nissan Maxima top of the line and my 3rd choice was recently discontinued, that being the Mitsubishi Diamante ~ For a German car (God Forbid) it would be a Audi A8L W12 2+2 or a Audi S4. For a Sweedish Car, definately a Volvo S80 Premier. English? Jaguar XJ Super 8 - but I would not spend THAT kinda $$$ anyhow (same with the A8), so it would be a S-Type "R" Sedan.

Meanwhile I'll stick with Cadillac & Lincoln, in Red, Whte or Blue. ;)

It is of course your own choice to buy only American. I do not buy Japanese cars, and wouldnt consider anything other than a Lexus from that country. I did own an Isuzu Trooper Commercial for nearly 10 years. It never broke. But it was awful. I just needed it as a workhorse and something to tow my wifes horses with...

I wouldnt think twice about buying anything German, if it did the job correctly. As you know im fond of American cars.

And as for the central instrument cluster doesnt the NIssan XTrail have it there too?
http://www.motortrader.com.my/NUS/articles/0/article_205/5.jpg
The original mini had the Cluster there too. it is fine ergonomically. I think its a good idea, since it makes it easier to make the car LHD or RHD keeping costs down. It also adds character, its a bit different to the norm...

My Vectras instrument cluster stretches accross the dashboard...
http://www.ukcar.com/road_tests/vauxhall/vectra/V6cdx/big/office2.jpg
like that on in the link

It adds a feature to the interior....

Sandy
08-07-05, 12:11 PM
Hey, You Reversed The Photo! The Steering Wheel Is On The Wrong Side!! ;) ;)

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 12:15 PM
Hey, You Reversed The Photo! The Steering Wheel Is On The Wrong Side!! ;) ;)

HAHA! It isnt all of the rest of the world is wrong :) we were right to put it there :D
That isnt mine anyay, mine hasnt got the nasty wood effect crap.

Boombotz
08-07-05, 12:45 PM
You should get 25 to life for that picture......:histeric:


We had friends that had one. I am so glad they got rid if it. I was embarassed to drive next to them in my Lade.

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 05:11 PM
I saw him again! Me and the kid went out for an all you can eat chinese buffet (i managed 11 plates ;)) and he was driving down the main street in Chinatown...... hes got big chrome wheels on it......Its a 2003, or at least it was registered here in 2003, and it looking very smart, what engine is in those? IS it the 3.8?

Ralph
08-07-05, 07:12 PM
but wait ...what currently the most desireable comapct car out there right now ? the mini
http://thecabe.com/MINI/Mini%20Interior.jpg
nope no cluster in the middle there

but wait ..what does it have for an engine ? yes, a CHRYSLER 1.6... LOL

see what i mean ...if its badged as an american car people will automaticly hate it .....

Strange that I've only heard GM criticized for the "center pod" and the others aren't criticized, they only get accused of being "fun" cars.

addison_ii
08-07-05, 07:16 PM
I saw him again! Me and the kid went out for an all you can eat chinese buffet (i managed 11 plates ;)) and he was driving down the main street in Chinatown...... hes got big chrome wheels on it......Its a 2003, or at least it was registered here in 2003, and it looking very smart, what engine is in those? IS it the 3.8?

Yep it's the 3800 3.8 ltr 231 cid V6. Probably the 3800 Series III(i think because I have the Series II in my 95).

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 07:18 PM
Yep it's the 3800 3.8 ltr 231 cid V6. Probably the 3800 Series III(i think because I have the Series II in my 95).

How fast are we talking here? What could i beat him with thats in my garage?

addison_ii
08-07-05, 07:24 PM
I have beat a few Maximas, a v6 Mustang, and a few others.But of course that's a very general term as it depends on whose driving, condition of vehicle and etc. I'd say the STS, BMW, and the DHS. I don't think you would be racing the SUVs but who knows.

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 07:28 PM
I have beat a few Maximas, a v6 Mustang, and a few others.But of course that's a very general term as it depends on whose driving, condition of vehicle and etc. I'd say the STS, BMW, and the DHS. I don't think you would be racing the SUVs but who knows.

Right this leaves me with the STS and the DHS. (the BMW is currently parked outside my son's girlfriend's house for reasons unknown to me) I had the Deville out tonight, and as he drove past he must of noticed it..... You really think i could take him in it? It is a DHS you know.....

Next time i see it im going to try and talk to him and challenge him..... I'd like to beat him in the Deville, but either the STS or the Deville would be a good winner. WHich do you think?

addison_ii
08-07-05, 07:40 PM
Right this leaves me with the STS and the DHS. (the BMW is currently parked outside my son's girlfriend's house for reasons unknown to me) I had the Deville out tonight, and as he drove past he must of noticed it..... You really think i could take him in it? It is a DHS you know.....

Next time i see it im going to try and talk to him and challenge him..... I'd like to beat him in the Deville, but either the STS or the Deville would be a good winner. WHich do you think?You're baddd!! I'd say use the STS but have the DHS standing by so that after you win you can challenge him again with the DHS.

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 07:44 PM
You're baddd!! I'd say use the STS but have the DHS standing by so that after you win you can challenge him again with the DHS.


Ooooooh good idea. I want to hand that Bonneville his ass as many times as i can... Do you think i could then beat him in the Vectra or is that too far:p

addison_ii
08-07-05, 07:51 PM
Umm not sure. give me the vectra's specs.

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 08:02 PM
From what i can recall, the GSi gets 223bhp, 0-60 in about 6 seconds..... (6.7 sticks there but i may be wrong) Top speed 150mph

Cant find ANY totally correct figures for this!

Sandy
08-07-05, 08:10 PM
WHAT model Bonny is it ???
I am not so sure you could beat him in the DHS
especially if he has a GXP !! !! !! THEY ARE FAST

http://www.pontiac.com/bonneville/images/bg_image2.jpg

Northstar V-8

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 08:18 PM
WHAT model Bonny is it ???
I am not so sure you could beat him in the DHS
especially if he has a GXP !! !! !! THEY ARE FAST

http://www.pontiac.com/bonneville/images/bg_image2.jpg

Northstar V-8

It looks alot like that..... It has four exhausts like that too. Could it be an N*? I havent been close enough to notice any badging

addison_ii
08-07-05, 08:23 PM
From what i can recall, the GSi gets 223bhp, 0-60 in about 6 seconds..... (6.7 sticks there but i may be wrong) Top speed 150mph

Cant find ANY totally correct figures for this!
2000 Pontiac Bonneville SE 0-60 7.7 1/4 15.8
probably could use the Vectra but I can't bad mouth it because I have one So NO you can't use the Vectra!!:sneaky:

I agree with Sandy if it's the GXP then you'll have some problems. But I don't think it is since you say it was imported over in 2003.

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 08:27 PM
2000 Pontiac Bonneville SE 0-60 7.7 1/4 15.8
probably could use the Vectra but I can't bad mouth it because I have one So NO you can't use the Vectra!!:sneaky:

I agree with Sandy if it's the GXP then you'll have some problems. But I don't think it is since you say it was imported over in 2003.

Well, i am assuming 2003, BUT the registration system here is staggered, So it could have been regestered any time from September 2003 up to March 2004.
If its a smaller engined model i would love to hand him is ass in a Vauxhall.....but the Deville would do me nicely considering it is the sloshy version.....

addison_ii
08-07-05, 08:34 PM
Well, i am assuming 2003, BUT the registration system here is staggered, So it could have been regestered any time from September 2003 up to March 2004.
If its a smaller engined model i would love to hand him is ass in a Vauxhall.....but the Deville would do me nicely considering it is the sloshy version.....
You're going to bait the poor guy in huh? Ooohh that's evil MUHAHAHA:lildevil:
Well when you beat him hand him a piece of paper with Cadillacowners.com written on and tell him this is why he lost.

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 08:39 PM
You're going to bait the poor guy in huh? Ooohh that's evil MUHAHAHA:lildevil:
Well when you beat him hand him a piece of paper with Cadillacowners.com written on and tell him this is why he lost.

Me? Baiting? Never :halo: I want to do my homework first though.....If its a V8 im not going to show myself up with the Vectra...... :burn:
Anything i should look out for to see if it is a V8? I wanna whoop him :dance:

And what about the wifes 94 Astra GSi? I think that might be REALLY pushing it

Sandy
08-07-05, 08:43 PM
GXP s first year was 2003 {2003 - 2005}
To tell you the truth, I really like them, ALOT. They have alot
or interesting little features. I entertained trading the 2003
Town Car on a Pearl White loaded one with every option.
$13,000 & the T.C.

GXP is a Northstar V-8. Any OTHER model is a 6

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 08:48 PM
GXP s first year was 2003 {2003 - 2005}
To tell you the truth, I really like them, ALOT. They have alot
or interesting little features. I entertained trading the 2003
Town Car on a Pearl White loaded one with every option.
$13,000 & the T.C.

GXP is a Northstar V-8. Any OTHER model is a 6

Are there any major external things i should be looking for? Any trim differences? Bumper alterations? I dont want to get to close to it until i talk to him. Like i say it has tose four exhausts like the one in Sandy's picture. It is a nice looking car....

addison_ii
08-07-05, 08:55 PM
It should say GXP on the side and or back of the car. But leave the vectra at home. Take the STS.

Adam
08-07-05, 08:55 PM
WHAT model Bonny is it ???
I am not so sure you could beat him in the DHS
especially if he has a GXP !! !! !! THEY ARE FAST

http://www.pontiac.com/bonneville/images/bg_image2.jpg

Northstar V-8

he could beat him in the STS!

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 09:02 PM
he could beat him in the STS!

I hope so! Id be embarressed if i coulnt beat a Bonneville with my engine in it :p I will try to se what it is next time i see him....
The VEctra will be staying home after the recent suspension issue....

Playdrv4me
08-07-05, 09:03 PM
It is of course your own choice to buy only American. I do not buy Japanese cars, and wouldnt consider anything other than a Lexus from that country. I did own an Isuzu Trooper Commercial for nearly 10 years. It never broke. But it was awful. I just needed it as a workhorse and something to tow my wifes horses with...

I wouldnt think twice about buying anything German, if it did the job correctly. As you know im fond of American cars.

And as for the central instrument cluster doesnt the NIssan XTrail have it there too?
http://www.motortrader.com.my/NUS/articles/0/article_205/5.jpg
The original mini had the Cluster there too. it is fine ergonomically. I think its a good idea, since it makes it easier to make the car LHD or RHD keeping costs down. It also adds character, its a bit different to the norm...

My Vectras instrument cluster stretches accross the dashboard...
http://www.ukcar.com/road_tests/vauxhall/vectra/V6cdx/big/office2.jpg
like that on in the link

It adds a feature to the interior....

We dont get the X-Trail here, but it is a spiffy little SUV. Youd think that with Ford having the Escape which is very similar in size and performance, that Nissan would bring the X-Trail over, but I guess it would be competition for the X-Terra which is why they dont.

That Bonneville GXP is nice, I dont know that Id pay 31k for one, but they do have a nice split personality and are pretty fast. A used 2003 would probably be a good deal.

Stoney, please elaborate on this 1.6L Chrysler engine in the Mini??

mccombie_5
08-07-05, 09:28 PM
We dont get the X-Trail here, but it is a spiffy little SUV. Youd think that with Ford having the Escape which is very similar in size and performance, that Nissan would bring the X-Trail over, but I guess it would be competition for the X-Terra which is why they dont.

That Bonneville GXP is nice, I dont know that Id pay 31k for one, but they do have a nice split personality and are pretty fast. A used 2003 would probably be a good deal.

Stoney, please elaborate on this 1.6L Chrysler engine in the Mini??

I think the X-Trail is one of the nicest cars in that market sector, my friend has one.... the Dci model in SVE trim, it is very well kitted out, and cruises well at 80-90mph...... like it very much....

Stoneage_Caddy
08-07-05, 10:15 PM
We dont get the X-Trail here, but it is a spiffy little SUV. Youd think that with Ford having the Escape which is very similar in size and performance, that Nissan would bring the X-Trail over, but I guess it would be competition for the X-Terra which is why they dont.

That Bonneville GXP is nice, I dont know that Id pay 31k for one, but they do have a nice split personality and are pretty fast. A used 2003 would probably be a good deal.

Stoney, please elaborate on this 1.6L Chrysler engine in the Mini??
the Minis engine is a joint venture between chrysler and BMW , there built for not only the mini but i also belive there for south american chrysler products and chryslers in europe ....speaking of south america i belive they are all put together there ....ill dig up more info on it , the engine even has a funny internal name to represent the originas of it ...

Sandy
08-08-05, 12:22 AM
Yes, a small conservative forward slanting GXP on the front door, just above the belt-line, and usually a spoiler on the rear.

Sandy
08-08-05, 12:31 AM
http://www.wiautonet.com/Carpics/2438-P04511.jpg

majax
08-08-05, 03:26 AM
Why did Pontiac get so inflated plasticy blaoughhhh.

mccombie_5
08-08-05, 06:33 AM
As soon as i return i will be cruising the streets of Newcastle in my STS looking for it. He clearly gets around the place so finding him should be no problem. Not often id get to beat another American car.

ben72227
08-08-05, 12:44 PM
Why did Pontiac get so inflated plasticy blaoughhhh.

Well, it started in the late 80's, and really culminated with the Aztek, they're dropping all of those models now though, so....:rolleyes:

N0DIH
08-08-05, 01:53 PM
I would like the new GTO better if they called it the Grand Prix. GP's market was after a higher end crowd (the executive sports car) that wanted performance and 2 doors, but needed a USABLE back seat and trunk. The new GTO is everything the GP was marketed to be. But in the end GM screwed it up and made it FWD, 4 door and a lame 2.8 and then a 3.1L V6. The 3800 should have been std and V8 available all along. No FWD!!!! They made it one the clone cars from GM. Mundane and lame.

Last time I checked only the Monkeemobile has tons of spoilers. The GTO had 1, and it looked slick, and came on the cokebottle GTO's. And it didn't get it until 68 or 69, and lost it by 74 when the GTO was reduced to the X Body. I probably would have sold well if it got the 350 heads on a 400 and left alone. The boost in compression to mid 8's and a 067 cam would have made it a screamer. But alas, GM Corp office intervened and screwed it up again...

The Bonneville used to be the large mid level luxury car with real performance, the larger CID engines as std. The car should be a V8 only, no option for a V6. And why the $$ N*? Put in the 5.3L or the 6.0L. Heck, a "cheaper" version with a 4.8L. If it is really any cheaper at all.

I say the Grand AM should have got the 3800 std, SC 3800 optional, Bonneville 4.8L V8 std and 5.3L optional. The GP should have been a 4.8L V8 and 5.7L optional. And the GTO would have been the gussied up model with a 6.5L LS V8 and made it as lightweight as possible, with a 1LE option available. And introduce the car to NASCAR....

All the above cars should have RWD.


most americans hate the GTO because it doesnt have 77 scoops, wings ,and spoilers on it and they hate it because it handles well and that they cant carry golf clubs in it..they hate that it doesnt have garish loud styleing ...they dont realize the 63 tempest on which the original GTO was based didnt have loud styleing either .... it was really a rather humble car ....

americans hate the Bonneville because it has 77 wings spolilers and scoops ...go figure

they hate the grand prix because it isnt built in japan and doesnt have a 24 valve v6

the grand am is a peice of junk ...it kept coming close to being a really great car but lways fell just short of it....but they sold very well in the 80s

the sunfire is about dead ....pontiac of canada gets a version of the new chevy cobalt called "persuit"... here in the US we will have just the vibe as the basic car ...

the US loves the vibe because it is built by a japanese comapny ....

N0DIH
08-08-05, 02:01 PM
GM needs to market the cars now to compete with the likes of BMW, MBenz, Jag, Lexus and Infinity. They are still making mundane daily drivers. People want to go into debt and go into debt for something "worth" it. So make the cars ALL world class cars. Don't comprimise.

Make them beat the competition in all catagories. And offer a warranty that keeps people reassured for years to come. Not a lame 3 year. GM's mentality was "if in doubt ship it out and let the customer (or dealer) sort it out". They seem to have abandoned that, but still it hurt them, and may be hard to ever recover from.

GTO = 6 series
Grand AM = low end 6 series
Bonneville = 7 series BMW
Grand AM = 5 series BMW
Sunfire = 3 series BMW

And go and KILL them with everything you can do.

ben72227
08-08-05, 02:47 PM
GTO = 6 series
Grand AM = low end 6 series
Bonneville = 7 series BMW
Grand AM = 5 series BMW
Sunfire = 3 series BMW

:histeric::histeric::histeric::histeric::histeric: :histeric:
Are you really serious? Pontiac vs. BMW?! Yeah RIGHT, Cadillac has a hard time competing with BMW, and they have a brand new lineup! Pontiac on the other hand, is dropping 4 of the 5 models you listed this year, so I doubt they can compete;). Really, a SUNFIRE vs. a 3 series? You must be :cookoo:. Pontiac can barely even compete with Chevy, I mean, why get a GXP when you can get an Impala SS? Or why get a Sunfire when you could get a Cobalt? Pontiac has one thing going for it right now - the Solstice, and we have yet to see how it turns out...

N0DIH
08-09-05, 12:52 AM
I didn't say they DO compete, they SHOULD be made so they can compete. I agree, they are so way off mark. Even DODGE is making a comeback, finally.... V8 RWD. GM does it on the STS and CTS. That is it. Where are the other cars that are V8 RWD? Toss the N* or LS V8 into everything that has 4 wheels.

Pontiac is the brand to go up against BMW, or, what Pontiac USED to be. Even back in the early 70's Pontiac's aim was after european cars. They did a lousy job of it and allowed profits/costs to lead them very astray. Get Jim Wangers and Herb Adams back, make a car worthy of a real streetable car. Heck, Pontiac screwed up the GTO when they got it from Holden, had to soften it up and make it ride cushy. Good gosh! How many people would LOVE to get a real Monaro over here as they make it?? And another thing, flagship cars from each division need to be made HERE, not there!!! Else it shows where your focus is. And where is the Caprice? It is still made, but not here! GM needs to get with it. And the El Camino, not with a lame 200 CID V6, but like the one Holden makes with a LS V8. Yes, one that can haul and haul....

Honestly, it is getting to a point where they need to do like GM did back in the old days. Rebrand. Lasalle, Oakland, etc. Kill them off and replace them, along with much of the management. GM needs some serious fresh blood at the top and middle. And to ditch the entire clone car image. Even if underneath they are the same, make them no share 80% of the body panels! People CAN tell!!

Look at BMW in the 70's, they sucked. Even the 80's they were pretty lame. 3 series BMW's that a Grand AM or Berretta could take on almost every turn and down the 1/4 mile. But BMW found their way. GM lost their way. GM keeps focusing on Ford and Chrysler. If they would stop it, and focus on the car brands that are gaining so much in popularity and in market share, they would figure it out.

Look at the Motorola Razr, the market surveys said it would be a flop. Is it? No, it is the hottest phone to come out since the StarTAC in the 90's. Someday it will be bland old phone. But for now, it is the hottest thing since sliced bread. GM needs some Razr's. Motorola isn't stopping, GM needs to just plain start.

Focus grasshopper, Focus GM..... Find your way back!

mccombie_5
08-23-05, 08:07 PM
Sorry to undead this thread, but i saw the guy today, i had a chat with him, Claire and I were walking along the street having just parked her car up, and he was loking his up around the corner, i said that i had seen him a few times, and that i had a few Cadillacs. And we traded numbers and drove each others cars

Bad news though, his Bonneville is the V8 version....

Registered in February 2004, and it is FAST, he let me have a shoot at it, Claire let him go in the Deville, he liked it, especially how comfortable it is....

We will be having a race

My STS versus his Bonneville GXP

Taking bets now...

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 08:01 AM
Sorry to undead this thread, but i saw the guy today, i had a chat with him, Claire and I were walking along the street having just parked her car up, and he was loking his up around the corner, i said that i had seen him a few times, and that i had a few Cadillacs. And we traded numbers and drove each others cars

Bad news though, his Bonneville is the V8 version....

Registered in February 2004, and it is FAST, he let me have a shoot at it, Claire let him go in the Deville, he liked it, especially how comfortable it is....

We will be having a race

My STS versus his Bonneville GXP

Taking bets now...


No takers?

Can i win in the STS?

Jesda
08-24-05, 08:34 AM
Here's the Bonnie I saw at the auto show back in February:
http://jesda.spilky.com/stlautoshow/stlautoshow%20112.jpg

I really, really love the crisply styled rear end and rising beltline. I seldom say this about a Pontiac, but I think its quite stunning. The interior was even better with beige leather, suede inserts, and a dashboard with soft touch materials reminiscent of the original Q45. The only thing I hated was those BIG UGLY VENTS!

I look forward to buying one used.

http://www.pontiac.com/bonneville/images/bg_image6.jpg

http://www.pontiac.com/bonneville/images/bg_image5.jpg
Vents all over the god damn place! WHY!

Jesda
08-24-05, 08:37 AM
I was pleased to see today that the Aztek is no longer on the Pontiac web site.

Kev
08-24-05, 08:37 AM
$20 says one of the English guys will win... :p

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 09:17 AM
haha yes Jesda i didnt like the vents, there didnt need to be one on the left of the passenger dashboard. And if they were nice to look at they woulnt be so bad.

I want to win this, ive never yet lost against anything ive raced so this annot be any different, the question is, can i win?

Kev
08-24-05, 09:31 AM
I want to win this, ive never yet lost against anything ive raced so this annot be any different, the question is, can i win?I don't know, some of those Pontiacs were pretty snappy with only a V6, one with a V8? Better do some homework on specs before you go racing for pink slips! Compare weights, HP, gear ratios, etc.

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 09:36 AM
I don't know, some of those Pontiacs were pretty snappy with only a V6, one with a V8? Better do some homework on specs before you go racing for pink slips! Compare weights, HP, gear ratios, etc.

Well its the same N*thats in Claires DHS

Kev
08-24-05, 09:54 AM
Well its the same N*thats in Claires DHSThen it's all about wieght, gear ratios and driving....... on paper at least....

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 10:00 AM
Pontiac Bonneville GXP:
Engine:4.6L N*
Output: 275bhp
Kerb weight: 3790lb

Cadillac Seville STS:
Engine:4.6L N*
Output: 300bhp
Kerb weight: 3970lb

What do you guys think then?

Kev
08-24-05, 10:02 AM
Pontiac Bonneville GXP:
Engine:4.6L N*
Output: 275bhp
Kerb weight: 3790lb

Cadillac Seville STS:
Engine:4.6L N*
Output: 300bhp
Kerb weight: 3970lb

What do you guys think then?Need gear ratios, common man, give...

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 10:05 AM
Need gear ratios, common man, give...

IM trying.....

Cant find any.....Someone help!!

Kev
08-24-05, 10:09 AM
As it stands with the numbers you have so far;

Pontiac:
.073 hp/lb

vs

Caddy:
.076 hp/lb

The Caddy shows a slight edge in horse power to weight ratio by just under 4%. Not much margin for error......

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 10:10 AM
As it stands with the numbers you have so far;

Pontiac:
.073 hp/lb

vs

Caddy:
.076 hp/lb

The Caddy shows a slight edge in horse power to weight ratio by just under 4%. Not much margin for error......

Ah, i shant be making any errors then **gulp**

Kev
08-24-05, 10:13 AM
Ah, i shant be making any errors then **gulp**I'd want to have only 1/4 tank max fuel with maybe some octane booster for good measure, take the air filter out for the run, make sure the tire pressures are perfect, empty everything unnecessary from the car including spare and jack...... no passengers.

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 10:18 AM
I'd want to have only 1/4 tank max fuel with maybe some octane booster for good measure, take the air filter out for the run, make sure the tire pressures are perfect, empty everything unnecessary from the car including spare and jack...... no passengers.

Will do, i found out that the spare is an alloy wheel the other day, cars dont normally have an alloy spare, i was quite pleased.

Will also take out the hoard of crap my daughter keeps in the back seat.....

What if i lower the rear seat to bring the centre of gravity down?
Does it lower on these cars?
Ive never needed to try

Kev
08-24-05, 10:21 AM
Will do, i found out that the spare is an alloy wheel the other day, cars dont normally have an alloy spare, i was quite pleased.

Will also take out the hoard of crap my daughter keeps in the back seat.....

What if i lower the rear seat to bring the centre of gravity down?
Does it lower on these cars?
Ive never needed to tryDon't think the seat will make enough difference. Hey, since there seems to be a difference in HP what about torque? What are the torque numbers?

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 10:26 AM
STS:
407 Nm @ 4,000 rpm

GXP:
300 Nm at 4,000 rpm

Kev
08-24-05, 10:34 AM
Pontiac:
.079 ft lbs/lb

vs

Caddy:
.103 ft lbs/lb

The Caddy shows a 25% advantage in torque, that's the kind of margin you want to see. I think you have a 80/20 shot to beat him, that's pretty good odds. If you take the hole shot you've got the race barring malfunction.

OK, my money is on the stocky British architect! :thumbsup:

:burn::burn:

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 10:36 AM
Pontiac:
.079 ft lbs/lb

vs

Caddy:
.103 ft lbs/lb

The Caddy shows a 25% advantage in torque, that's the kind of margin you want to see. I think you have a 80/20 shot to beat him, that's pretty good odds. If you take the hole shot you've got the race barring malfunction.

OK, my money is on the stocky British architect! :thumbsup:

:burn::burn:

Cheers :cheers:

:D I think the other guy said he was a fireman, so i will have to be careful not to upset him or he wont rescue us if we have a fire

Kev
08-24-05, 10:41 AM
Cheers :cheers:

:D I think the other guy said he was a fireman, so i will have to be careful not to upset him or he wont rescue us if we have a fireBetter make it a friendly race then, no running for pinks. If you win and take his car he might hold a grudge... :eyebrow:

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 10:45 AM
Better make it a friendly race then, no running for pinks. If you win and take his car he might hold a grudge... :eyebrow:

Hahah!
I think 20 should do it :D

I wouldnt want his car :stirpot: its not as fast as mine :sneaky:

Kev
08-24-05, 10:49 AM
Hahah!
I think 20 should do it :DMight throw in "Winner buys the first round." for further diplomatic insurance....

I wouldnt want his car :stirpot: its not as fast as mine :sneaky:Yeah but the daughter might fancy it?.....

danbuc
08-24-05, 10:53 AM
I saw someone asking about the difference in final drive gear ratios between the STS and New Bonneville GXP.......well there is no difference. The bonneville uses the same 3.71:1 final drive ratio that the STS uses. That couple to the LD8 engine making more torque, at a lower RPM makes for quite a formidable oponent.

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 10:53 AM
Might throw in "Winner buys the first round." for further diplomatic insurance....
Yeah but the daughter might fancy it?.....

Haha yes, shes got a couple years to go though, shes 15 now, she wants a Vauxhall Monaro for a first car :helpless: :bonkers:

Not letting her loose in a V8, you should of seen her in my wifes Astra 1.8!!

Im sure shes driven before....

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 10:58 AM
I saw someone asking about the difference in final drive gear ratios between the STS and New Bonneville GXP.......well there is no difference. The bonneville uses the same 3.71:1 final drive ratio that the STS uses. That couple to the LD8 engine making more torque, at a lower RPM makes for quite a formidable oponent.

Well i seem to still have the edge, i mean i have a faster engine.......

but we'll see

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 12:29 PM
Ive just spoken to a friend of mine, he runs a private air strip and isnt flying this weekend. Hes coming around on friday night to drop the keys for the place in to me!

THE RACE IS ON

Kev
08-24-05, 01:07 PM
Ive just spoken to a friend of mine, he runs a private air strip and isnt flying this weekend. Hes coming around on friday night to drop the keys for the place in to me!

THE RACE IS ONGood luck! :thumbsup:

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 01:15 PM
Good luck! :thumbsup:

Thanks, i shant need it though, if it gets bad i'll resort to dirty tactics, like mimicing a blowout at 70 :halo:

addison_ii
08-24-05, 01:53 PM
Ive just spoken to a friend of mine, he runs a private air strip and isnt flying this weekend. Hes coming around on friday night to drop the keys for the place in to me!

THE RACE IS ONYou've finally baited him. Well since we can't be there to watch take a camcorder or digital camera with you and record the race.

BTW Good Luck :thumbsup:

mccombie_5
08-24-05, 01:57 PM
You've finally baited him. Well since we can't be there to watch take a camcorder or digital camera with you and record the race.

BTW Good Luck :thumbsup:

Oh i will be, Claire will be operating it from the passenger seat of her car from a head start to us, so the plan is that the camera will get passed about 3/4 of the length down the strip