: Dynoed today with Stealth-V tune....



HDMLNIUM
08-05-05, 03:33 PM
Well first off I have to say this tune is great on the street. It pulls real strong and so smooth I'm really impressed with it.
Now to how it did on the dyno, with all the talk about "mail order tunes" I think this one hits pretty much on the money for not being tuned on a Dyno. You can tell Rick has spent a lot of time getting his tunes they way they are. The guy running the Dyno said "This guy can tune" Not bad for a mail order tune huh???

Anyway for the numbers.... These were done in SAE correction method...
384.4 HP and 383.1 ft-lbs
No leaner than a 12.45 at it's leanest point.
All in all a very good and safe tune that you will "for sure" feel and enjoy..:thumbsup:

Here are a few pics of the graph, enjoy...
I need to get ready now to go to the track and try her out there..
Wish me luck... Going for 12's tonight...
Bill

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Stealth-Dyno-8-5-051.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Stealth-Dyno-8-5-05.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Stealth-Dyno-8-5-052.jpg

[Edit]
I just noticed that the pics don't show the air fuel, give me a minute and I will snap another so you can see that..
Bill

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Stealth-Tune.jpg

StealthV
08-05-05, 04:00 PM
No need to dyno tune becasue the tune itself is calibrated beyond even what the factory does and produces exactly what is commanded. Tell it the right things and bingo - right on the money. :yup:

Another important note - the dyno run was done after many miles of driving so the LTFTs have all settled in - no fooling the PCM with zero'd out trims and running leaner than you'll see later on the street like happens on 99% of dyno tunes.

Good luck with the 12s tonight - GO HD! :thumbsup:

akm2k5
08-05-05, 04:13 PM
nice! Thats around 450-452 crank hp (divided by 0.85). Goodluck tonight!

slow35th
08-05-05, 04:19 PM
That's what I'm talkin 'bout. Feels Gooooooood.

V-seriesTech
08-05-05, 04:49 PM
Well first off I have to say this tune is great on the street. It pulls real strong and so smooth I'm really impressed with it.
Now to how it did on the dyno, with all the talk about "mail order tunes" I think this one hits pretty much on the money for not being tuned on a Dyno. You can tell Rick has spent a lot of time getting his tunes they way they are. The guy running the Dyno said "This guy can tune" Not bad for a mail order tune huh???

Anyway for the numbers.... These were done in SAE correction method...
384.4 HP and 383.1 ft-lbs
No leaner than a 12.45 at it's leanest point.
All in all a very good and safe tune that you will "for sure" feel and enjoy..:thumbsup:

Here are a few pics of the graph, enjoy...
I need to get ready now to go to the track and try her out there..
Wish me luck... Going for 12's tonight...
Bill

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Stealth-Dyno-8-5-051.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Stealth-Dyno-8-5-05.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Stealth-Dyno-8-5-052.jpg

[Edit]
I just noticed that the pics don't show the air fuel, give me a minute and I will snap another so you can see that..
Bill

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Stealth-Tune.jpg


Nice numbers Rick/Bill. Have a good time at the track tonight....lets see some twelves.

urbanski
08-05-05, 04:59 PM
what did you dyno with the "dyno tune"?

V-seriesTech
08-05-05, 05:23 PM
what did you dyno with the "dyno tune"?

Who? Me? I dyoned 354 and 366 on an LS1 with LS6 intake, long tubes, and ram air, which doesn't really work under 80 mph. We did have a 30mph fan blowing into the car for that part of the tune.

Dannystang, dynoed at 371 with custom tune, B&B long tubes, B&B resonator exhaust, and stock air box. I don't remember his torque numbers. I'm sure the rainbow warrior will tell us though.:lildevil:

wicked v
08-05-05, 05:28 PM
HDMLNIUM, what mods do you have done to your V ?

urbanski
08-05-05, 05:29 PM
Who? Me? I dyoned 354 and 366 on an LS1 with LS6 intake, long tubes, and ram air, which doesn't really work under 80 mph. We did have a 30mph fan blowing into the car for that part of the tune.

Dannystang, dynoed at 371 with custom tune, B&B long tubes, B&B resonator exhaust, and stock air box. I don't remember his torque numbers. I'm sure the rainbow warrior will tell us though.:lildevil:
i meant Mr. MLNIUM :)

alcast082
08-05-05, 05:31 PM
those are awesome numbers.

GNSCOTT
08-05-05, 05:39 PM
What were the dyno numbers before with the headers, exhaust and gutted cats?

urbanski
08-05-05, 05:42 PM
heh, bill's probably out racing and i'm too lazy to search his old posts...
i want baseline and "dyno tune" numbers compared to these gems

akm2k5
08-05-05, 06:04 PM
look in his sig.

HDMLNIUM, what mods do you have done to your V ?

Anyone want to make a guess on what he dynoed before with this dyno tune? Im guessing 368rwhp.

urbanski
08-05-05, 06:34 PM
368, even 380....compared to the "dyno tunes" alot of you guys are so key on....I want Bill to describe the drivability differences between a "tune" done on a dyno with a few 4th gear runs, and StealthVs tune.
If StealthVs tune makes 1-2 less HP (doubt highly that is the case) how much does that matter if Bill says his car ran like ass on a "dyno tune"?
You guys don't listen to me anymore, since I've helped develop SVEs tune (just a wee bit)....I want Bill to chime in about it.

wildwhl
08-05-05, 06:45 PM
Drivability is key :yup:

Urby - smashing your face with a torque wrench and codeveloping tunes gets you 3 gearhead points :histeric:

Lower that V and you'll have four!

GNSCOTT
08-05-05, 08:34 PM
Can someone come out with a tuner that I can add and remove the program myself? I'm done buying lap tops.

willsctsv
08-05-05, 09:18 PM
I was one of the first to dyno the Stealth V tune. My mods are LPE/Stealth FFV, Headers, no cats, B&B exhaust/Xpipe.
It was a Mustang Dyno on a very hot/humid day. I was a little surprised about the #'s, they seemed a bit low, and my a/r's read very rich. Now if the Mustang Dyno loads the engine, isn't that the same as driving the car in real world. Rick please clarify.

Unfortunately My V was in a little fender bender, no major damage. But she will be in the shop a few more days. The car is noticably faster and revs great. I do smell the exhaust a bit more, (gas). Could be because I have no cats, or to rich and more power can be made with a new tune?
Rick Chime in.
The car dynoed 367 RWHP, Tq was low at 330 or 340, I forgot. No where near the HP #'s that many are getting.
Some have said that on a Dynojet the car would be over 400 at the wheels. That is sweet, but not real world, is it? And would the a/r's change on a Dynojet because the car is not loaded?

StealthV
08-05-05, 09:41 PM
I do smell the exhaust a bit more, (gas). Could be because I have no cats, or to rich and more power can be made with a new tune?

The PCM whether stock or modified will always strive to maintain a 14.7:1 air:fuel ratio in closed loop. If you're smelling fuel, one reason could be the front O2 sensors aren't reading properly and the car is overfueling because of it. Did you wrap your second set of headers or just the first set?

StealthV
08-05-05, 09:44 PM
.

StealthV
08-05-05, 09:44 PM
Can someone come out with a tuner that I can add and remove the program myself? I'm done buying lap tops.

Why do you need to remove the program?

willsctsv
08-06-05, 12:20 AM
Rick the headers are all wrapped up still. Do you think I should replace the o2 sensors?
Maybe that's the reason for the rich condition, and stealing power from my tune.

StealthV
08-06-05, 12:38 AM
Something seems unique about your V - you are basically running nearly the exact same tune as HDMLNIUM, CVP, Urby, myself and others. Since you've had troubles with rear O2s in the past, it would seem logical the front ones aren't quite up to speed anymore.

HDMLNIUM
08-06-05, 01:19 AM
Ok, some people want to know the differences between my Westers tune and the Stealth-V tune I am running now.
My last dyno run numbers with my Westers PCM was 371.7 hp and 370.4 ft-lbs
The only differences I have made between the Westers last dyno run and the one today was I put in the B&B x-pipe and the Stealth-V tuned PCM in.
I think if I put the Westers tuned PCM back in with the x-pipe now installed the numbers on the dyno would be very close between the two.
Rick has spent a ton of time fine tuning to get the drivability that his tune offers. The car runs super in every situation, every gear, at any rpm, and that is the main reason I am keeping this tune... It also has a couple really neat added features that my Westers tune didn't offer. Rick can talk about those when he is ready... Well done Rick...:worship:
I have to say in Westers defense that they never had a CTS-V to work with to get their tune dialed in all the way. I was working with them on it using my car at a local Dyno shop, my car was never "tuned" on the dyno. What I was doing was making a couple dyno runs and then e-mailing them to Lyndon or Butch for them to tweak from there. The raw HP numbers I know Westers could match with another update, but the drivability for everyday driving would be the part that they could not match with out having a V in person to work with..
So my choice is to run the Stealth-V tune for the total package, and that is what I wanted most...
Thanks Lyndon and Butch for all the time you did spend with me to work on a CTS-V tune. And Thank you Rick for spending countless hours for over a year with your V to offer what I feel is the best all around tune available from what I have tried. It is to bad that other tuners didn't get into this, everyone most likely thought I would give the win to Westers no matter what since we are friends. I said in the beginning it would be a fair an un-bias test and I would pick the best all around tune, then I would keep it... And that is what I am going to do..
Stealth-V rocks!!!!!!:yup: :cheers:
Also someone wanted to know my mods, they are in my signature but I will list them anyway..
B&B--- Tri-y Headers, gutted cats, 3" x-pipe exhaust
Lingenfelter CAI, and the Stealth-V tune.. That is it for hp mods..

Bill

slow35th
08-06-05, 02:27 PM
The way Rick (Stealth V) has dialed in his tunes is by using EFI Live to record data while vehicles were being driven around with very specific and controlled modifications. The tunes were installed and modified as necessary, until peak performance was obtained. In my mind this is preferable to a dyno tune in that the tune was developed using data created by actually moving the car on the street.

slow35th
08-06-05, 02:44 PM
I think Urb has done before and after dynos. Maybe he'll chime in. Also, further to your point, what is important is power through out the power band, not just peak numbers.

StealthV
08-06-05, 02:47 PM
HDMLNIUM's car has already been dyno'd with the stock tune - 356/357 and now with the StealthV tune he's at 384/383.

HDMLNIUM has had two iterations of the Westers tune to get it dialed in and only one StealthV tune and he's keeping the best one because of the performance and drivability. Plus there is some neat features that HD has kept under his hat in the Stealth tune that you won't get from 99.9% of the traditional tuners out there.

On the asphalt is where the StealthV tune is proven as we don't race on dynos: HDMLNIUM - 12.99 @ 108.

(The left lane V has a B&B x-pipe, LPE CAI and no tune - look at the 1/8 mile - it was already over. :sneaky: )
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/12.jpg

:cheers:

StealthV
08-06-05, 03:05 PM
Yes, understood.

Generic tunes are fine for 90% of the people out there. DTE and Stealth may have great tunes but every vehicle is different. There are still a few ponys left to be extracted by having a tune specific for your car. Wither its worth the money/trouble however is for you to decide.

It still does'nt answer the fact that I would love to see before and after dyno numbers. Driveability is one thing and logging data on a laptop is great for that. But before and after power figures are a pretty universal guage of "seeing" results over the interenet.

Aaron Lephart

Cars are dyno tuned for two reasons. 1. The factory calibration isn't all that accurate on a stock vehicle. 2. When modificaitons are done to the car and it is no longer stock, the PCM is commanding a given air:fuel ratio that is different than what is being delivered. This is due to the factory calibration inaccuracies being amplified by the modifcations.

If one takes say a CTS-V, with mod A and calibrates the core operating system to less than 2% error and then takes bolts on mod B and recalibrates again for the next version to less than 2% error - magic, two perfect tunes for two different modication combinations. This can be taken to any likewise modified CTS-V with the same results. This super accurate calibration to the particular modification combination is the differentiator. If the calibration was done correctly, what goes in must come out. If you bolt on say a B&B exhaust to customer A's CTS-V and the same style B&B exhaust on customer B's CTS-V, the calibration requires the same changes. There is no magic to tuning, it is science.

The key part here is a very large majority of tuners out there may have experience at making cars perform better on the dyno but in reality, don't really know how to tune properly by actually recalibrating the PCM. These tuners basically just cheat and put band-aids in their tuning to get what they want on the dyno. Example - they might put in an AFR of 13.8:1 at WOT in the PE table because the car was running too rich and with 13.0 commanded, it is producing 11.7 on the dyno.

With a StealthV tune, the GM operating system is completely recalibrated and remapped from scratch. When one commands 12.5:1 AFR in the tune, that is what is produced. There are no band-aids or cheats. Repeatable goodness, just like the factory calibration only better.

Wrapping up, a dyno tune, no matter how good the band-aids in the tune make the car pull the roller; drivability on the street will not be improved at all. Tuning for drivabilty requires a eddy-current style dyno to load the engine at all rpms and intake manifold pressures. Since eddy-current dynos are extremely rare, one can actually use real-world street and track tuning to replicate the same process. This take time, skill and knowledge which is hard to come by in this world.

urbanski
08-06-05, 03:08 PM
I think Urb has done before and after dynos. Maybe he'll chime in. Also, further to your point, what is important is power through out the power band, not just peak numbers.
i was 356/345 post-header, pre-tune
i was 346/330 pre-header, pre-tune, post-BB system on a different dyno. 326 stock.

i have yet to dyno post-tune, however a little birdie whos name rhymes with EFI-Dive, told me i have a calculated 400 RWHP now. If my cousin GTP (yes, we're real life cousins) buys me a beer in Vegas ;) I'll dyno my car with all the bells and whistles, and again with a bone stock tune.

StealthV
08-06-05, 03:11 PM
i was 356/345 post-header, pre-tune
i was 346/330 pre-header, pre-tune, post-BB system on a different dyno. 326 stock.

i have yet to dyno post-tune, however a little birdie whos name rhymes with EFI-Dive, told me i have a calculated 400 RWHP now. If my cousin GTP (yes, we're real life cousins) buys me a beer in Vegas ;) I'll dyno my car with all the bells and whistles, and again with a bone stock tune.

You don't even need to dyno your car Urby - our buddy GTP drives your car with the stock tune and then with the Stealth tune and he'll want it for his car too. Bring that free Magnaflow exhaust up this way and I'll do a real tune for you - calibrated exactly to the mods. Which then I'll be able replicate to anyone else who has a CTS-V with the same mods. Repeatable, accurate calibrations.

It'll be way more SOTP than an exhaust system. :cheers:

HDMLNIUM
08-07-05, 12:01 AM
Nothing against Rick or his "tune" but would'nt a more accurate guage of comparison be a before and after dyno graph?

Basically without that we are taking your word about the improvements you speak of.

Aaron Lephart

Aaron,
Sure I can show you my very first dyno sheet, my last one from my Westers tune and the one from Stealth-V if you would like. They were all done on the same dyno, the only problem is on my very first dyno pull with the car was done in "Standard correction method" So these numbers are a little high... The car wasn't bone stock either, I had the B&B 3" resonator cat back and a drop in K&N pannel filter, oh and the throttle body bypass "free-mod" lol.
Numbers are 356.5 hp and 357.3 ft-lbs. remember these are in "Standard"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Factory-tune.jpg
With my last dyno run with the Westers PCM, and with the Stealth-V PCM they were both done in "SAE correction method"
This is my last Westers tuned Dyno run, I read the wrong numbers yesterday when I posted about it, they were actually 380.1 hp and 371.8 ft-lbs.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Westers-tune.jpg
And then the Stealth-V dyno run, numbers are 384.4 hp and 383.1 ft-lbs.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Stealth-V-tune.jpg

I hope this helps for what you were asking, all real numbers from the same car on the same dyno...;)

Bill

slow35th
08-07-05, 03:40 PM
If my cousin GTP (yes, we're real life cousins)

Yeah? So who is that in his avatar? :lildevil: