: Slipping out of overdrive and P094 code



therodman
08-02-05, 08:17 PM
Yesterday when driving my 1994 STS (70k miles) it felt like it went into neutral and the engine revved up, then the check engine light came on. I pulled the shifter back to make sure it was in drive which it was and when I got to second, I had second gear. I slowed to a stop for a traffic light and shut the car off, restarted and it worked fine for the remainder of my trip, maybe 10 miles with several starts and stops.

This morning when I left it worked okay until it warmed up (coincidence I think) although it started to slip out of 4th/overdrive before it warmed up. That's the way it stayed for a 6-8 mile trip, slipping out of 4th/overdrive.

After reading this forum about P094 problems I took it to a trans shop where they agreed that the "A"shift solenoid was bad/broken and they were going to replace both A&B solenoids. The fella said I'll show you how it's broken when we take the pan off but when they took it off, nothing appeared to be broken. He scratched his head and started thinking maybe there is a ground somewhere other then the solenoid itself. I remember reading on this forum that sometimes the bracket is broken and other times the solenoid itrself is cracked and I assume you wouldn't see that unless you took the solenoid out. He seems reluctant to pull the solenoid because he would want to charge me and if that isn't problem then I'm paying for the solenoids and the labor for nothing.

Any suggestions? The only code is a P094!

Caddy112
08-02-05, 11:53 PM
I'm curious about this too, my 95 Eldo is currently at the Cadillac Dealer with the same code, and also P029 I think it was, and the shop manual said it was the other shift solenoid. I'm waiting to hear from them once they look at it, and tell me what is wrong. Mine car's only foward speed is second gear right now. The fluid looks/smells good and is full,and was flushed two years ago, around 64,000 miles. I will let you know how I make out with this.

therodman
08-02-05, 11:58 PM
I saw mine with the pan off and the fluid is okay, looks okay, smells okay. If you shut yours off and restarted, you still only had second gear? Appreciate your response and looking forward to what your problem may be. I'll keep you posted on my progress as well.

rockytfox
08-03-05, 12:11 AM
It probably means that the solenoid is ready to die. You may not be able to visibly see any cracks until you remove the valve body. I hope he checked the wiring for you. If he did and you are still having the same problems, you need to have them replaced. It is a pretty common problem with these cars. Once they are replaced though you shouldn't have any problems.

therodman
08-03-05, 12:31 AM
I believe they are going to check the wiring in the morning and go from there. I told him I thought that I read on this forum that you have to get them out sometime before you can see the problem and even them you may not actually see a problem. Thanks for the input, hope I'm rolling by afternoon.

jjbuckley
08-03-05, 07:52 AM
Sometimes you can not see a crack in the solenoid base, sometimes it is an internal problem with the solenoid, the small internal passages will get clogged or gummed up.

Othrt times if it is a model that did not come with the filter capture bracket installed wwhen you drive it the fluid pressure will cause the filter to push against the solenoid causing problems, if your fluid is not burnt and there are not a ton of metal in the pan then you are lookng at the solenoids, replace both and make sure the new filter capture bracket is installed, the check balls are all in the right places and the wiring connectors are secure.

Your codes are pointing to the solenoids, so replace and get rolling again.

John

Caddy112
08-03-05, 10:46 AM
Ahhh. They want over $700 to replace the two shift solenoids, and flush the system. This is a Cadillac Dealer, he said he has to replace a harness that has to fished up, 5 hours of labor. It's either them, or some other shop who may not be as familiar with the car, so I'll have to pay it, very reluctantly. This car is nickle and diming (somehow this saying does'nt quite cover the amount anymore) me to death. May be time for something newer. :crying:

mcowden
08-03-05, 10:54 AM
Ahhh. They want over $700 to replace the two shift solenoids, and flush the system. This is a Cadillac Dealer, he said he has to replace a harness that has to fished up, 5 hours of labor. It's either them, or some other shop who may not be as familiar with the car, so I'll have to pay it, very reluctantly. This car is nickle and diming (somehow this saying does'nt quite cover the amount anymore) me to death. May be time for something newer. :crying:

Don't let them "flush" the transmission. Not a good idea. Have they even looked at the solenoids yet? Why are they assuming they need to replace a harness if they haven't even diagnosed the @#$%ing problem yet??? If it's only the solenoids that need replacement, that's all you should pay for. No flushing. No harness. Just the solenoids. And at this point, it seems like the dealership is just trying to jack you around to squeeze more cash out of you for needless work, so you might even consider taking it somewhere else just for the principle of it. @#(&@ @$#&(*%@ *@$(%ing dealerships!!!!

therodman
08-03-05, 11:22 AM
Caddy112, I checked this morning and they put my pan back on and drove it to check it again and then checked I think two wires they said that go into the transmission for that solenoid. It worked okay again when it was cold but after it warmed up it started the same thing so they feel pretty strongly that it is in fact the solenoids just like the reposnders on here have said that's what it is. They are now pulling the solenoids and he said if they replace them and it doesn't fix the problem he won't charge me although he now feels pretty certain that it will fix the problem.

I did like a few others on this forum mentioned and called some local transmission shops and got quotes to change the solenoids only and nothing else. Don't want to hurt your feelings but they're doing it for $250 which I think is a fair price considering the cost of the parts and labor involved, then again your a caddy man so a little extra cash spent is nothing, right, lol!

Good luck and if it were me, I would tell the service manager at the dealership that I knew someone right now who was getting the same job done for $250 and ask him for a discount off that $700, they'll work with you if you call their bluff.

zonie77
08-03-05, 12:33 PM
I don't understand why the Caddy dealer wants to replace the harness (alright, I do know, he has it in stock, the shops not real busy, and it's a good chance to get rid of the harness.).

With service like that why use the dealer? The issue is finding a good independent.

I had a sticky solenoid free up after changing fluid. It was my car so I tried it. A shop wouldn't want to do it though, and I wouldn't try it on a customer's car.

therodman
08-03-05, 01:24 PM
Talked to the shop and he said the solenoids ohmed out good when they tooko them out, never the less, they are installing the new ones. Any takers on if this will fix the problem? I feel like it will and certainly hope so, I say yes, it'll be running fine in about 1.5 hours! If not, what could it be?

oldgamer
08-03-05, 03:53 PM
therodman,

I got a bit similar problem with my transmission, except I didn't get any computer codes, like you.

Same like yours transmission works for some time after every restart.

I read manual and found that when computer realize that there is a problem it blocks switching gears up to the next ignition cycle, that why it works again on next start. But in my case I got no codes and it's even worse, cause I have no idea what's going on.

I dropped a pan and didn't find anything wrong with solenoids. Their resistance is fine.

I found on line solenoids for ~ $100 for both with shipping include.

I hope that changing solenoids will help in your case.

Agree with zonie77 and mcowden that stealership just wants to make some more profit.



jjbuckley,

what filter capture bracket you talking about? I didn't see one. I can't find anything like that in manual or I'm just stupid. What I found is just two screens (filters).



And one thing more: did anybody hear anything about Gibraltar Transmissions? I don't know who I can trust (I guess only myself and enthusiasts like me).

therodman, keep us updated, please.

P.S. Interesting, that my car is 94 STS with 70K also.

zonie77
08-03-05, 04:27 PM
The solenoids ohming out OK doesn't mean they are working. They are an electromagnet that moves something. The moving part cannot be tested by an ohmmeter. If there is something binding that moving part, the solenoid is bad.

Dirt inside, a worn body,etc can cause it to fail. As I mentioned, I have one that was failing, changing ATF freed it up but it's still stuck a few times. No DTC's ever showed from it.

addison_ii
08-03-05, 04:37 PM
You can get the solenoid for $45 shipped from http://www.gmpartsdirect.com or $53 shipped from http://www.gmotors.com. The gmotor(Brasington Dealer) will get them to you quicker. The average price for changing runs between $225-350 from tranny shops. I had the same problem with mine and it was the solenoids. I was getting code p029. You probably can also go to your local mechanic's shop and have them installed for about 150-200 bucks.

oldgamer
08-03-05, 04:38 PM
Thanks for fast replay.

I'm electrician by education and know what you're talking about. You're absolutely right. I just can't understand some other things. Solenoid looks like usual: coil on a plastic tube when I took it off. The moving part, steel valve placed kind of too far from solenoid, the end of it doesn't go inside of the coil. The plastic end of solenoid has a strange shape and I can't understand why either. I missing something. I can't see any moving part INSIDE of solenoid.

oldgamer
08-03-05, 04:40 PM
You can get the solenoid for $45 shipped from http://www.gmpartsdirect.com (http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/) or $53 shipped from http://www.gmotors.com (http://www.gmotors.com/). The gmotor(Brasington Dealer) will get them to you quicker. The average price for changing runs between $225-350 from tranny shops. I had the same problem with mine and it was the solenoids. I was getting code p029. You probably can also go to your local mechanic's shop and have them installed for about 150-200 bucks.

That cool if it resolves the problem, cause I can change solenoids myself.
But, addison_ii, you got a code at least, right?

therodman
08-03-05, 04:48 PM
All's well that ends well, running again! The shop put about 35 miles on it and I drove it about 5 miles so I'm quite sure that it's fixed. Like I said earlier, nothiing looked bad when they took the pan off but he just wanted to make sure and put it back together and drove it this morning and said it was fine until it warmed up, then it started to fail but ever so slightly. Thanks everyone and caddyman I hope you have as good of a result as myself, you to oldgamer. Change them, a service manager at the dealership told me the computer codes never lie, if you get a P094, 99 out of a 100 it's the solenoids.

therodman
08-03-05, 05:00 PM
Oldgamer, I didn't get any codes at first. I think I took it out for a drive when I suspected something was wrong. When it failed I shut it off, restarted and then put it through the paces, hard. When I was accelerating through the gears it shifted into all the gears but shortly after it shifted into overdrive/4th under full load it slipped out and of course the engine revved red line real fast. That's when the check engine light came on and I got a code for the first time. I had to beat on it a bit to get it to set a code. I guess it was just starting to fail and I was fairly easy on it therefore I didn't get any codes, I had to coax one out of it, lol!


By the way, they changed both solenoids and a bracket, I think some sort of filter bracket is what he said, not sure exactly. What he said was that it now has the upgraded kit, (solenoids/bracket).

addison_ii
08-03-05, 05:14 PM
You can change them yourself. There are directions on the forums on how. The filter bracket has been redesigned to keep the filter from sliding up against the solenoids which can lead to malfunctioning. I think it's longer than the old bracket. I did get a code however someone else on here or caddyinfo didn't get a code but reported the same symptoms and the solenoid upgrade kit fixed the problem. BTW the part number is 24211355.

oldgamer
08-03-05, 06:35 PM
... nothiing looked bad when they took the pan off but he just wanted to make sure and put it back together and drove it this morning and said it was fine until it warmed up, then it started to fail but ever so slightly...

Thanks all.
I will hope that changing solenoids will resolve the problem.
therodman, I understood that now everything ok with yor car, and thing "then it started to fail but ever so slightly" happened before they changed solenoids. I can't wait when I got my car off the jacks.

therodman
08-03-05, 07:44 PM
Olgamer that is correct, it failed ever so slightly when they put the pan back on with the old solenoids still in place and ran it from a cold start. They actually put it back together to see how it was working from a cold start before they changed the solenoids. When they started it this morning cold, they said it worked just like I explained and after it was warm it would fail but ever so slightly. It would go into overdrive and then slip out and back in every now and then. You would have to watch the tach to really notice this happening because it would slip out for a second and then back in so it was hard to notice by feel. Going at a speed of about 40, the tach would read about 1500-1600, then it would slip out and the tach would pop up to about 2000-2100 and then back to 1500-1600, real smooth so hard to notice. Like I said, I then banged on it and made it go into neutral and I believe that is when I got the code.

Now after changing the solenoids all is fine. They put on about 30 miles and I've driven it 3 times for about 20 miles and it's back to it's beautiful self. Good power and the trans shifts like a performacne trans if your a little rough on it, good to go. My neighbor has a Porsche Boxer and that thing has a neat auto trans, it downshifts when you let off the gas just like if you were maually downshifting, it bangs in all the gears up or down with very little throttle applied, pretty fun car to bang around. The old STS can hang with it pretty well though, you can really fall in love with these cars!
:histeric:

oldgamer
08-03-05, 09:49 PM
Good.
It's very close to my simptoms.
One thing more if you feel that transmission shifts a bit a hard way or opposit, too soft: I read in the manual that after this service you should override transmission code (don't remember wich one now) to make transmission learn, so transmission will adapt.

therodman
08-03-05, 10:07 PM
It shifts just fine but thanks for the info. Under light acceleration it shifts soft and under a heavy load it shifts somewhat harder which is what you would expect. I cleared all the codes from the job just finished, somehow I got a P047, I052 and a T072. I'm sure all 3 were from their diagnostic computer and all the button pushing they were doing. I've driven it a bit since and none have coem back so I feel good about the repair. Those codes were never present so I'm sure it was from the shop working on my trans. For $250 there is no way I would pull the pan in my driveway, temp at 96 degrees, having trans fluid dripping down my arm, no way. I think that was a very fair price and hey, everyone has to make a living!

Once again, good luck, you didn't mention in your last response if you got it going or not!

oldgamer
08-03-05, 10:15 PM
My car still with transmission opened in a garage. I'm glad for you and kinda jelous.:sneaky:
Clear the codes and see if they reoccur. I think you will be fine.
The price of $250 is pretty good (oil itself will cost me around $40, plus solenoids.) And imagine me under the car in a garage. In couple days I'll get my torque wrench I ordered on line and I can move on. And I didn't order solenoids yet.

therodman
08-03-05, 11:00 PM
You know I haven't purchased a quart of trans fluid in so long I have no idea what it cost! You say the trans fluid alone is $40! I told the fella at this garage what the problem was and that it's supposed to be fairly easy and he acknowledged that. We agreed on $250 total and that's how he wrote up the invoice, 250 for labor and parts to replace 2 solenoids. I was there when he ordered the kit at least that we told the parts guy, "I need a kit and make sure the bracket is is with the kit". He told me when I picked my car up that he really didn't charge me for the gasket or the trans fluid. I read on here that it is about $100 for the solenoids and you said $40 for trans fuild so he did the work for about $100. Like I said earlier it's just not worth it to me at the age of 51 and beat up to go under my car on a 96 degree day and have trans fluid dripping into my armpits for a hundred bucks, lololol!!!

He even gave me a 1 year warranty, parts and labor!

therodman
08-03-05, 11:03 PM
Correction to last post,

He told the parts guy and not we like I said in my previous post!

oldgamer
08-04-05, 09:07 AM
therodman,
And you know him as honest mechanic now, so next time (god forbid) you know where to go. Where are you located?
I calculate ~$40 assuming that if I'll go to mechanic I should put together transaxle at first and use at least 10q Dexron III and again after mechanic finish the job, so I will use more than 20 q of oil. In K-Mart I found Dexron III for $2.29/1q. So it will even more.
Today I will order the solenoid kit.
Thanks for your help.

therodman
08-04-05, 03:52 PM
oldgamer,



I'm in Pearland Texas, may as well be Houston because I'm actually in Harris county for tax reporting purposes. Your correct about having someone I can trust if I ever have a future trans problem. Very nice people, all of them because I met the 2 mechanics besides the shop owner/manager. How many shops would drive it and check for codes, they hooked up a computer of their own, then take the pan off, do a visual, put the pan back on, drive it the next morning cold because it acted different cold, take the pan back off and then change the solenoids. The manager told me he just wanted to be sure it was the solenoids and said if it didn't fix the problem he wouldn't charge me. He did all the trouble shooting because he didn't want to do something for nothing although I told him in the end to go ahead, change them, if it doesn't fix the problem I'll pay anyway and we'll go forward from there. I also said thatr because of people on this forum being so sure that the solenoids would fix the problem.

Good luck with yours and it is also odd that you have the same year, 94, with virtually the same mileage, 70k.

:banana: