: Hell Hot Phoenix days & Intake to Maggie,



BliTzer
07-21-05, 09:21 PM
Well, really no need to mention the 19365473091 degrees here..

But, this is what i am wondering. A way to cool the air being pulled into the intake going to magnason charger...


Opinions here really & thoughts, & of course how feesable, can it be done, & final would there be any difference in performance gains vs. price.

The hot 115+ temp, at the least, but coming off the road, which i intend to measure, that is going into the intake, thru the pipe, then filter, then angled plastic tube into TB, finally into the jaws of the maggie.

How can one cool the air even more? Any concraption out there, similiar to freon type coils thst cool down all air going thru the entire process above?
Would it work?
Now of course im not talking about in every normal condition that any of you may live in, but im talking about a state that broke the 116/117 high of all time in certain phoenix areas ever. Frying an egg on the sidewalk, remember that? Well, guess what.. it is true! lol Coming from Florida, & have always wanted to check that. ;P

Anyway. any ideas on this, for extreme conditions guys, remember that sentence, not every place else that may not need it, alot of city's/towns stay comfortable that would not need it.

If ppl think it could work & a positive outcome would come from this, im willing to experiment with a few ideas that i have that could cool down the intake tube going to the TB into the maggie as much as a 20 degree difference, maybe more..


Later.. blitzer..

heavymetals
07-21-05, 09:49 PM
I think for what you are gonna spend for the few days that the heat is unbearable will not be worth it.

The intercooler does a pretty good job, although I have been looking at the Spectra(?) replacement hood.

StealthV
07-21-05, 09:57 PM
Nitrous oxide will cool your intake charge. :D

One of the downsides - It's tough on the Maggie's rotor seals. :nono:

BliTzer
07-21-05, 10:00 PM
Yes your right, the intercooler does a damn good job, but it is working VERY VERY hard here my friend. I can feel it. I step on the gas with this unbearable heat & can feel the lag of performance.

Ok nighttime driving, well lets see. Lastnight is was still 92 degrees at night. So you have to understand & have some sympathy of what i mean.
I am very skillfull with computer building, servers & so on.. They have smaller freon type machines that keep chipsets that runs quite high in temps, able to keep them quite cool... I am thinking about using this technology in a different way, since i already have these materials, put together inside with an extra cai that i have, get it working, and waallla.... worst thing that could happen, "crap it dont work" big deal. Nothing is destroyed. Some of you will know what i am talking about while others will stratch there heads, but that is ok... object here to create something that SW areas could benefit from, & NOT COSTLY.

later blitzer..

V-Max
07-21-05, 10:30 PM
I'd work on intercooler/exchanger end. If your lower intake temps it might be a waste as the IC system might not be up to task.

If your IAT is not after the IC then your not receiving proper reading to the PCM. My C32 AMG(twin screw) IC system was tied to the engine's. so when the engine was hot, so were the intake temps. I separated it from engine for better performance.

You could feel the return exchanger hose before it enter under the blower comparing highway and city runs. Or use an infared heat sensor to the exchanger measuring both ends through the bumper to see how it is doing. If it is extremely hot then you'll have to add coolant capacity or get a bigger exchanger up front.

At cruise the C32 was 10-15F over ambient and seldom went 150F on a freeway blast. Check the C32 forum for research from one of the tuners.

Norm

lasstss
07-21-05, 10:41 PM
You mentioned freon. I have not installed my unit yet but I was thinking of a way to re route the low side of the evaporator line from the compressor to the coolant for the intercooler. If you had an ethylene glycol solution in the intercooler, it would not be able to freeze the water at all. The intake temp will never see 32 degrees and you dont have enough water in the air to be an issue. It cant freeze in the intercooler. Actually theu did something similar on the V-12 Jaguar. They ran the low side line AC line right next to the fuel line to cool it and prevent vapor lock. Both were tied together. It can be done.

BliTzer
07-21-05, 10:48 PM
I'd work on intercooler/exchanger end. If your lower intake temps it might be a waste as the IC system might not be up to task.
If your IAT is not after the IC then your not receiving proper reading to the PCM. My C32 AMG(twin screw) IC system was tied to the engine's. so when the engine was hot, so were the intake temps. I separated it from engine for better performance.
You could feel the return exchanger hose before it enter under the blower comparing highway and city runs. Or use an infared heat sensor to the exchanger measuring both ends through the bumper to see how it is doing. If it is extremely hot then you'll have to add coolant capacity or get a bigger exchanger up front.
At cruise the C32 was 10-15F over ambient and seldom went 150F on a freeway blast. Check the C32 forum for research from one of the tuners.

Norm


Vmax, thank you for that knowledge, that is exactly the kind of feedback i need, & crucial, Thanx again.

Some of you do not realize the extreme conditions it can get here. Not far in almost every direction is alot of proving/testing grounds for different vehicle manufacturers. I have drove my car 4 times in the last 6 weeks due temps that melt the bottoms of your shoes & become sticky like chewing gum, if it is hot enuff to do that, then all that air sucked up off roads traveled by thousands to & from work daily, you can imagine the heat sucked up into the intake & having to work hard to keep close as possible to desired temps it should be running under anyway. Anyone seeing my point here?
OIL cooler by Greddy did wonders, 20 to 28 degree drop, oil temp average is 212, when before it was 260 to 300 degrees very quickly. I do not have headers, but i do have B&B with x-pipe. I had the oil sensors checked 3 times and wiring to and from as well. One of checks i did when i checked rear end, diff when all those problems was going around about busted diffs & i found nothing wrong with mine from one end to other. I took my voltage meter which has a temp measure on it as well, and put against the sensor, and was only a 3 degree in difference, so that told me sensor was just fine.


Anyway, i will let you know how my test do, will take but about 3 to 6 days to get it built, one maore to install... then i will post results, with pics & test.

later blitzer

BliTzer
07-21-05, 10:52 PM
I see what you mean lasst.. hmmm good thoughts.. I will look at that also. let me know what you find if yo go that route, that could be a very good idea. That 200 degree heat being sucked into intakes guys. Might as well put blowdryer on TB on high heat and run with it. ;P

later...

StealthV
07-21-05, 10:57 PM
It is not uncommon to see intake air temps post intercooler on a Maggie above 140 degrees with ambient temps in the 70s and 80s. With ambient temps well above 100 - eek my man!

Random thought - There is a sweet spot in the flow rate of the intercooler pump - too fast and the coolant never has a chance to pick up any heat from the intake air. Too slow and the coolant won't take the heat away fast enough. One could do some testing by putting a valve in the intercooler circuit, making small adjustments and documenting the intake air temperature.

For Arizona with no threat of freezing, do not run any antifreeze in the intercooler system. Pure water will work better. Only downside of water is lack of additives for corrosion, pump lubrication and no freeze protection.

StealthV
07-21-05, 11:08 PM
Another random idea - inject windshield washer fluid (a mixture of water and methanol) into the air intake after the MAF.

This will prevent detonation as well as evaporate (cooling the intake air) before it even gets to the Maggie's intercooler.

Not sure what effect the water and methanol would have on the Maggie rotor seals...

Everything is rebuildable. :lildevil:

BeelzeBob
07-21-05, 11:15 PM
A simple and easy thing to do is to put a spray bar on the intercooler heat exchanger. A large windshield washer bottle, electric pump and some spray nozzles strategically located will do the trick. Put the button to run the pump nearby. Run methanol or windshield washer fluid in the system. You only need to cool it when you want the power so it doesn't have to run except for burst periods.

The idea of using the AC compressor has been around for sometime. Ford actually showed a car that was set up like this several years ago...I think it might have been the show car for the Ford GT.. They fed the intercooler from a vat of coolant that was chilled by the AC during low demand times when the cabin didn't need the capacity. At WOT a solenoid would trip and feed the cold water to the intercooler. It was only good for several seconds but it would improve 0-60 or so. The idea of running an AC compressor that would have enough capacity to keep up the cooling of the intercooler full time is like hoping for perpetual motion. It would take WAY more HP to drive that large of a compressor than the resulting cold air could give you. You would have to be content to chill a small reservior that was stagnate until WOT and then switch the coolant flow from the reservior to the intercooler for a burst of power.

An intercooler spray bar is much easier, cheaper and doesn't take long at all to rig up...and it is very effective and the tank of coolant will last longer than a freon chilled system could.

BliTzer
07-21-05, 11:32 PM
Hmm interesting..

Well, i as more of the lines of thinking of using an electric coolant compressor & what is most interesting it only takes 12 volts to run it. Double them up, with extended coils to cool whatever method you wish to use might be the answer.
Thermostat controlled by remote like on my OIL cooler pump could be used in similiar sitreps.

Hm going to garage to dig out some boxes now of what i have in stock that keeps gigantic servers quite cool that hit 80 to 100c marks at times during major peaks of usage. These are same electric "freon type" not like car or home freon coolants, much different. Cooling before a spray, or cooling a return of hot water, then a thermostat placed in a strategic location to close long enuff to cool return flow, then release... repeat wash and rinse..


later.. blitzer

BliTzer
07-21-05, 11:40 PM
Hey steathv,

Man those coil pack covers look dan good.. I took the GTO ones & the Vette ones, modified them as one for each side. This way they fit perfect with the maggie since the vette covers were modified for it.

Took them off a month ago though due to extreme temps, didnt want to take chance of warping or whatever else HELL could produce here..lol
Good job on that, im really happy Stealth.

If you get any other goodies that dress up engine somewhat more, please let me know.. Im always ready to purchase a quality item.

Thanx for all that hard work my freind!
later.. blitzer

StealthV
07-21-05, 11:42 PM
BliTzer - an even easier soluton - MOVE NORTH MAN!

Canada is nice this time of year. :D

heavymetals
07-21-05, 11:46 PM
How about a soild state heat exchanger?

http://www.thermoelectric.com/


http://www.tellurex.com/

BliTzer
07-21-05, 11:49 PM
LOL! I wish.. I did buy some property in Flaggstaff. It is very nice up there. It is about 2 hours north of the desert high up in the mountains, around 7 thousand feet. Mnts have snow caps. snow in winter... I will prob end up there. Trying to get prints layed out now so i can build my house. Its amazing 2 hours away it was 48 at night, 83 in day.. 2 hours south, 105+ day, 90's at night... uuuhhgg... ;\

Tell ya something though... In that high altitude, and being cool, lil dryer air, V ran awesome with that maggie... It sounded much different of a whine, lil lower, B&B was even a little different. But damn it seemed to have 25 to 30 more hp up there in those alts..
Is that normal, or just me imagining that?

later blitzer

heavymetals
07-21-05, 11:53 PM
Less air resistance at that altitude.:drinker

BliTzer
07-21-05, 11:56 PM
LOL heavy... like free drinks on 767 first class.. about 4 of those in that airplane im snockered.. lol

Florian
07-22-05, 12:15 AM
Blitz,

Love Flagstaff...looking at property myself there..... great city
Sorry for the hijack....
F

heavymetals
07-22-05, 01:20 AM
This might work in multiples.

They have units, like chillers.

http://www.thermoelectric.com/2002/pr/cp/ahp/ahp-300cp.htm

talalhz
07-22-05, 01:30 AM
Try this, I ran it on my Supra back in the day, made +80rwhp and more boost in Southern Ca heat. It really works !
http://www.snowperformance.net/proddetail.asp?prod=auto023

JBeechel
07-22-05, 01:32 AM
Blitz, I think I saw you going Westbound on the 202 last (Weds) evening... was going to use the cop u-turn lane to play catch up, but I pussed out. When are we meeting up? I need to see the maggie for myself

heavymetals
07-22-05, 01:52 AM
Seeing is nothing (unless it's polished!).:worship:

You have to drive one.:lildevil:

Like a totally different car.:shhh:

LV_V
07-22-05, 03:55 AM
In Vegas this week it was 117+ during the day, 100+ at night!!

JBeechel
07-22-05, 11:21 AM
Supposedly, I was going to drive the Blitzmobile, but then he disappeared. I'm beginning to think Blitzer is actually Batman.

BliTzer
07-22-05, 08:20 PM
lmfao,

Jbeechel bro, im ready to meet up anytime bro. Wifey is having a boy, she will be 6 months beginning next week. Ultr sound went great, lol baybe may be 8 to 9 pounds lmao.. i was 9.8 when i was born so wife is dog cussing me.. ;P
Thst what ya get when ask over, and over for child ;)

Call me, you got my number. Send me email. blitzer_3geb@cox.net I need to go to carwash, wise guys carwash has my prepaid detail ticket, i need it detailed badly, black gets dirty quick in this dust bowl.

I might run to walmart later over on southern, or Sonic to get me a ice cold slush with these 115 degree days later tonight... email me, we will meet up ok?


later... blitzer..

DgtalPimp
07-22-05, 09:16 PM
Is the AZ meet gonna happen soon? i am back in town from work travles and ready to meet the rest of the AZ folks.

BliTzer
07-22-05, 09:41 PM
Hey Dgtlpmp!

How ya been brother.. Anytime my friend. This next 3 to 4 days im pretty much free, but afternoons best for me, anytime after 3pm.. With this heat i try to get wife done with shopping & helping her first, then it is playtime.

If you are not doing nothing later, let me know guys... SONIC on power, i might go there later 730 to 9 pm, something like that..
Alot of cars seem to hang there at times.. All those hondas, crx, and mustangs... the all just look and grit there teeth at me.. its like they want to do do something. show me there little 4 cylinders gonna wip my ass or something, then its like a cold sonic slushy wakes them up to the face.. lol
But watch out for the law, they been patrolling thru there, looking for american graffetti type car racers or something.. its weird here, its like you rev your motor, might as well be wearing 6 gun like in old days, rev motor, stare each other down... lmao..
i just drive, i dont look to break nothing, with nothing to prove. When you already know what yo have, it is so gratifying to me. Just sippin on my ice cold drink, and listen to B&B growl, & decieving to others the slight whine of the maggie. they have know idea. Plus my is lower now in sound that is, since engine modes.. response is much quicker... but heat of day can tell slight sluggish feeling at times, almost like when you have touch of low octane, or injector oh so slightly seems to not quite hit..

One thing i have noticed... somethins when i turn car off, since maggie install, & other changes.. I have a slight POP when i turn it off.. like that small backfire or combustion going between maggie & intake..

Anyone else notice this?

later blitzer...

DgtalPimp
07-25-05, 11:50 AM
Hey Blitzer,

Power road!! :bonkers: could you be any farther away from phoenix (haha). I am in north phx (51 freeway and Shea).

I have not heard any others with a pop noise when turnign off the V (with maggie), but it would be something to take notice of as that sounds like pressure not being routed to the right location.

I could meet after work (after 6:00 usaly) pretty much when ever, so lets get this planned and setup for a centeral location (anyone with a suggestion?).

JBeechel
07-25-05, 11:56 AM
Hey Dgtl... sounds like you have a drive. I'm only a few blocks from Blitz, so that makes two to one. And LV_V is driving his ass off either way to get up here.

DgtalPimp
07-25-05, 12:01 PM
Crap, now I have to bring an over night bag, and use the nav ( :histeric: ).

Any other folks wanna meet closer to Phoenix?

BliTzer
07-25-05, 07:13 PM
Guys, just name the place & when..

But please keep it close to MESA.. I still do not know Phoenix area to well, and if i get car jacked, whoever gets in car is gonna get some .40 in there ass.. Wild west gun laws, gotta love them... Im usually anywhere on the 202 from Tempe, in tempe because that is whee my parts place is i do business with... scottsdale road and university... by college, and omg the college girls are always wanting a ride.. ;P
Apex is where i go.. I HATE THE 60.. i try to stay off that hellstate hiway..

Digi i called you friday night and sat night, left message on your phone.. I was at power & i guess brown road area, checking all the rice burners lined up...


later blitzer

DgtalPimp
07-25-05, 07:19 PM
Blitzer, I have no messages from Friday or Saturday night. :werd:

I can make Tempe, Mesa, etc I was just bitching about the drive since fuel is 10 bucks a gallon and I can't seem to finnd a way to drive the V without killer it.

BliTzer
07-25-05, 07:39 PM
Digi, my bad.. it was jason i called.. I lost my other cell phone, i have 4 and hate them.. Anyway, i have lost some of my addresses & telephone contacts.. might have lost yours as well.
My cell number is same. I wiould give ya my V number in car, but i can not never remember that damn number... I have wrote down numerous times, and i still have to say MY NUMBER on that stoopid thing... but i like driving and using it.. I hate holding cells & trying to drive. So if you or others call me and i do not answer most likely im driving, but leave a message & i will call you back promptly.


later blitzer.. ps.. digi check you PM's

DgtalPimp
07-25-05, 07:41 PM
Blitzer, I'll call and get you number when I can (work). To get my car number in my phone I just called my cell number and saved it as my car.

DgtalPimp
07-25-05, 07:42 PM
Nothing in PM box. :werd:


PM just showed up. un:werd:

BliTzer
07-25-05, 08:15 PM
I did do the save to cell thing, but that was the cell i lost...
So i will do it again.. ;)
Hey want to go to APEx... im fixing to head that way...
later,.. blitzer

DgtalPimp
07-25-05, 08:19 PM
Sorry Blitzer, can't today.

Gonna audition someone for monkey sex Olympics tonight. I hope she is goes for the gold. :tongue2:


:histeric:

BliTzer
07-25-05, 08:23 PM
lol its all good..

gotta run, i want that perrin badly.. plus i want to see that methanol/water injector they have there, that comes wit kit to adapt to maggie... Would be even cooler to cool down maggie air intake... I have my other project about 1/2 completed.. it will chill fluid for maggie from exchanger...

i think it wil work, i really do... i get picsd later...

later blitzer...

wildwhl
07-25-05, 09:04 PM
Blitzer -

Keep us posted on the methanol injection...I've been thinking about it. Also, I'm working on (haven't got very far - need StealthV's help) a maggie intercooler pump "run-on" so when you shut the car off the i'c continues to "cool" as long as your fans run-on from your performance tune...denniscars was letting his brain destroy this one too...but I don't think any of us has actually succeeded yet.

StealthV
07-25-05, 09:15 PM
The I/C setup is done from a concept, just need a few details ironed out and interest to get some made...

wildwhl
07-25-05, 09:28 PM
Rick -

What sort of rate are you look for :histeric:

OK, count me as 10% interest...I have a lame, manual hardwired switch hooked up for the strip this Sunday...but I want something a little more refined :yup:

lawfive
07-26-05, 11:41 AM
Threadjack: Blitzer, you gonna be around if I drive into town August 22-23?

DgtalPimp
07-26-05, 12:37 PM
I am usaly around. (Though I dont' have the Blitzermobile)

haveboost
07-26-05, 12:43 PM
Gentlemen, I think the Aquamist (methanol injection) is going to help you. Here in south florida we have alot of heat issues as well. NO 115 days but 100+ is not uncommon. Both on the Supras and MR2 Turbos I've seen that system where the benefits were incredible. It's a very common mod on forced induction engines down here.

RobertCTS
07-26-05, 01:06 PM
We have a member who lives in Anchorage Alaska and I don't hear him bellyaching about the heat. But wait 'til this Winter!:D