: CTS-V vs. C32 AMG



H_Sach
07-20-05, 01:47 PM
Saw this thread on a MB Forum and thought it was interesting.

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114570

430 hp at the wheels seems kind of low for a CTS-V with a Maggie. Is it really only that much?

willsctsv
07-20-05, 06:39 PM
These V guys better represnt the V's a little better! Bring on your C32's on!

Dave's V
07-20-05, 07:00 PM
430 at the wheels is about 100 more hp than a stock V. Since the blower puts out modest pressure, that sounds about right.

M5eatr
07-20-05, 07:15 PM
I wonder who it is....Could it be one of the guys from this forum?

StealthV
07-20-05, 07:28 PM
It has to be someone from this forum as "Maggie" is pretty much unique here.

430 is why a N/A V with headers, exhaust, intake and tune is a very good bang for 1/2 the cost.

H_Sach
07-20-05, 07:30 PM
Wow, I honestly didn't realize that a 400 HP motor is losing around 70 HP to the wheels on these cars. Has anyone here dyno'd there V with a supercharger on?

wildwhl
07-20-05, 07:47 PM
lawfive did and was about 480 hp, after a smaller pulley and a tune, IIRC.

V-Max
07-20-05, 09:22 PM
C32s on a road course are tough to beat. When I had my V(stock with race tires) I had a hard time pulling any distance on my buddy in his C32 with race rubber...and a passenger. They can really hold corner speed as I pull away slightly in the straights at Nelson Ledges.

I recent did a few rolls on on the highway againist the same car but this time I was in my '05 GTO. My buddy was shocked as I rolled on him at speed as we went about 5 times before he gave up. He has an SLK55 on order.

Norm

Barak
07-21-05, 12:17 AM
C32 with race rubber

That makes all the difference in the world. You probably could have run circles around him if you had similar tires.

trukk
07-21-05, 05:02 PM
That makes all the difference in the world. You probably could have run circles around him if you had similar tires.

Re-read the post, Norm said his car was stock except for race rubber (his V).

He knows what he's talking about, he changes cars more often than many change their shorts.

When I met him at VIR last easter, his licence plate still read 'C32 AMG', so I think he knows a thing or two about V's vs. C32's.

Norm, do you still have the GTO? :D

-Chris

V-Max
07-21-05, 05:10 PM
Sure do! Same license plate too! :-D It is alittle easier on tires than the V was as I am burning off the 400 wear rated BFG all-seasons.

Any more track events this year for you?

Norm




Norm, do you still have the GTO? :D

-Chris

Luna.
07-21-05, 06:04 PM
I found this comment interesting:

"The CTS V is violent when shifting with the maggie blower and 3.73 gears which are stock. If he went to a 3.42 or 3.15 gear he would have destroyed me. "

That seems to be a reasonable statement. I did a few searches, but didn't come up with anything in terms of the "generally accepted best" rear-end differential gear-ratio to use with a stock CTS-V with a supercharger.

Thoughts?

willsctsv
07-21-05, 06:52 PM
The gears are perrrrrrfect. More traction is needed.
There is no way a C32 will take me in my V! I have a little bolt on work, that's it!
The CLK 55 AMG has more power than the C32, and I walked on that car all day. At that time the V was all stock.
Some guys don't want to, or are afraid to bring the motor close to redline. I figure if it can't frequent the redline, why drive the car. It's like driving at 1/2 throttle if your shifting at like 4500 or so.
Just my .02.

Luna.
07-21-05, 07:03 PM
The gears are perrrrrrfect. More traction is needed.
There is no way a C32 will take me in my V! I have a little bolt on work, that's it!
The CLK 55 AMG has more power than the C32, and I walked on that car all day. At that time the V was all stock.
Some guys don't want to, or are afraid to bring the motor close to redline. I figure if it can't frequent the redline, why drive the car. It's like driving at 1/2 throttle if your shifting at like 4500 or so.
Just my .02.

I'm in total agreement that short-shifting a car kills the optimum performance, but there is at least some logic to going to a taller rear-end with a ~25%+ increase in Hp/torque to the rear-tires.

Granted, there are several issues with that as well, but his point is an interesting one.

lawfive
07-21-05, 07:10 PM
My boss has a C32; they're an awesome little car. Good traction at the line and instant shifts... two strikes against us.

OTOH, we have the guy bling factor. I drove my V to the Ritz Carlton hotel in Laguna Niguel last night; the place was lousy with AMGs and Rolls and Porches. Guess whose car all the valet parking guys came over to check out. :thumbsup:

Koooop
07-21-05, 07:36 PM
My boss has a C32; they're an awesome little car. Good traction at the line and instant shifts... two strikes against us.

OTOH, we have the guy bling factor. I drove my V to the Ritz Carlton hotel in Laguna Niguel last night; the place was lousy with AMGs and Rolls and Porches. Guess whose car all the valet parking guys came over to check out. :thumbsup:

They probably wanted to know how the rear tires could be rubbing curbs on both sides of the street at the same time...

Vrocks
07-22-05, 12:33 AM
The guy in the SC V needs a shifting lesson, he should have destroyed the C32.

Gordy Petrovski
07-22-05, 08:52 AM
Hay I am the guy with the slow SC V,the problem here is TRACTION as for my short shifting I did that when HE was in the car with me.That was not the case when we went from a roll.It is was great when the SC is screeming & tires are spinning & you are still pulling on a car :burn:What I cant believe He is giving shit about short shifting MY car & he drives 2 automatics:hmm:as for the H/C remarks that is cheeper than my SC, I had a H/C 03Zo6 I didnt want that drag car feel & the S/C looks so GOOD in our cars.With all that said we get together on Tue nights at Crusers in Frisco just N of 121 on Preston E. side of the road would like to see more V's there.I just wish I had more than 2 blks to run him next time:yup:

05StealthGray
07-22-05, 12:08 PM
I'm not really that familiar with MBs, I've always favored BMW and have owned 5 prior to the new V but a couple of weeks ago while on I75 North of Tampa I ran across a C55 AMG in the left hand lane doing about 70 or 75. I was pushing a little harder and he wouldn't move over so I pulled over in the right lane and began (in 6th gear) to move past him at a fairly normal pace. To my surprise he looked over at me and floored it. Clearly the C55 lunged forward and he had a good two car lengths on me before I could figure which gear I needed. Once I got the beast downshifted (I had my radar detector plugged in so I bashed my hand) I began to slow his pull and gain on him more rapidly. At about 110 or 115 I really began to pull him very substantially. At about 135 he was about 10 or 12 car lengths behind me and losing ground. I got on the brakes beacuse of finally running up on some traffic and decided to slow up and see what he would do. He continued to run hard until he caught up with me and jammed on his brakes when he was even with me. He had a very puzzled look on his face and was looking all over the car. I began to laugh and he shot me the finger. Wisely, he pulled in behind me!

I was pleased with the Vs performance especially for our first encounter together. I sold my C5 to buy this car and I really love it.

Luna.
07-22-05, 02:10 PM
Just in case anyone cares...

After speaking with a mechanic I trust immensely (one of these weirdo guys that truly understands the "math" behind automobiles...) about switching to a taller rear-end differential ratio, I was informed that staying with a 3.73 rear-end differential (with a blown CTS-V) might still be the best choice.

Several considerations were mentioned, including: 1) the desire to *not* lug the engine (this is apparently not very desirable, as detonation, etc. can easily occur, which results in retarding the timing, loss of power and such...), 2) switching to a rear-end ratio that would actually make a noticable difference (say, going from a 3.73 to 3.08 or something) could make the overdrive gears, especially 6th gear, virtually worthless and #1 could easily happen, & 3) there would most likely be an increased risk of damaging the differential based on such taller gear (which is seemingly already a high risk in the CTS-V).

Kind-of an interesting discussion. :cool:

V-Max
07-22-05, 03:43 PM
If it is "engineered" correctly and tuned for the new gearing it can work.

The C32 is around 3.06. The S65(twin turboed V12) with a RennTech chip runs high 11's in the mile...with something like a 2.65 gear ratio!

Norm

Luna.
07-22-05, 03:47 PM
If it is "engineered" correctly and tuned for the new gearing it can work.Norm

Totally agree. However, we are now talking about a significant increase in dollars. :)