: Attn. Gm Wheel Hop Fix Tsb



Drift-caddy
07-19-05, 11:04 AM
Yes that is right, Gm has announced a fix for wheel hop in all 04-05 CTSV to controll wheel hop on full throttle application from standstill and/or 1-2 shift

If anyone would like to bring there car in for this fix and has this problem, please call or email me.

Thanks
Damian Harney

Moore Cadillac

Damianharney@moorecadillac.com

703-448-6210

Congrats to all who have stuck in there and had some faith in GM. it was only a matter of time before they addressed this concern. Also we nee to thanks GM and Cadillac for taking the time to address this and make a fix for it

slow35th
07-19-05, 11:15 AM
What is the fix? Details?

HDMLNIUM
07-19-05, 11:28 AM
Yes, great news... How do they fix it will be the main question all will ask????


Bill

SBONES
07-19-05, 11:32 AM
new shocks???

jspridge
07-19-05, 11:40 AM
Here's a little more information...


Controlling Rear Axle or Wheel Hop on Full-Throttle Application from a Standstill and/or Full Throttle 1-2 Shift (Install Supplementary Rear Sub-Frame Bushings) #05-04-114-001A - (Jul 18, 2005)

Controlling Rear Axle or Wheel Hop on Full-Throttle Application From a Standstill and/or Full-Throttle 1-2 Shift (Install Supplementary Rear Sub-Frame Bushings)
2004-2005 Cadillac CTS-V

The information presented in this bulletin is intended to inform, educate, and provide an effective means to further improve the outstanding high-performace handling qualities of the CTS-V for customers who value very aggressive driving capabilities.

This bulletin is being revised to expand the title line, include additional information, and add a repair procedure. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 05-04-114-001 (Section 04 - Driveline/Axle).

Condition

Some customers may comment on rear wheel hop or rear suspension bounce under full throttle acceleration. This condition is not unsafe by itself and is the result of very aggressive driving practices. This condition is primarily confined to hard acceleration from a standstill with wide open throttle, though it may be possible to induce if the customer attempts a hurried wide open throttle or "Power-Shift" from 1st to 2nd gear.

Notice: Vehicle component durability is greatly influenced by these driver abuses. Driving in this manner is not recommended.


Customer Expectations and Real World Usage
The CTS-V is a very high performance vehicle capable of class-leading acceleration that, in most cases, exceeds even the capabilities of pure sport and muscle cars. The 5.7L V8 engine in the CTS-V provides outstanding reserves of power. This large available engine torque, coupled with a suspension system and tire combination designed for maximum road adhesion, may result in wheel hop under certain conditions.

Cause

In the rear of the CTS-V, a sub-frame is mounted to the body structure at four rubber-isolated points. These mounts were carefully chosen to achieve an effective combination of excellent handling, while retaining effective damping of road shocks and bumps. The force of the suspension rapidly occillating vertically (hopping) provides enough weight transfer (up and down) that these bushings, which normally compress to help isolate passengers from irregular road surfaces, may deflect or compress in sympathy to wheel hop.

Correction


Improving High Performance Suspension Characteristics
For customers who value very aggressive driving capabilities, a revised set of firmer rear sub-frame bushings are available that may provide an incremental improvement in reducing the tendency of the rear suspension to wheel hop. This is an improvement that will further extend the handling capabilities of the CTS-V - it will not remove the possibility of wheel hop in all situations.

Important: Do NOT replace the rear sub-frame bushings unless the customer specifically has the concern of objectionable wheel hop.



Service Procedure
Use the following procedure to install the service rear frame supplemental bushings.

Raise and suitably support the vehicle. Remove the left and right rear tire assemblies. Support the right rear lower control arm with a stand. Remove the lower shock absorber mounting bolt. Gradually lower the stand until the control arm is hanging. Remove the stand and use to support the left rear lower control arm. Remove the lower shock absorber mounting bolt. Gradually lower the stand until the control arm is hanging.


Remove the brake pipe mounting bracket from the right side wheel well area.


Remove the right and left side exhausts from the hangers nearest the rear fascia. Install jacks and suitably support the rear frame.


Remove the 4 rear frame attachment bolts. Important: Only lower the rear frame enough to install the new bushings. The above steps include removal of components sufficient to lower the frame enough to complete this operation. Additional lowering of the frame may cause stress or damage to other components.


The rear frame mounting points have reverse cone shaped locators as an integral part of the location. Lower the rear frame to obtain sufficient clearance to install the revised insulators.


The new bushings are installed over the existing bushings by inserting them into the voids of the original bushings. The front and rear frame bushings are different diameters but each matching half is the same and will only fit the proper locations. Install the new bushings to the frame mounts as shown in the illustration. Caution: When raising the frame back to the vehicle, you will need to guide the coil springs back to their original mounted location points. Raising the frame back to the vehicle underbody will retention the springs. Failure to properly locate the springs upon re-installation of the frame may cause personal injury or damage to the vehicle.

Raise the frame making sure that the locating pegs are positioned properly and guide the frame to the correct position. Install the rear frame bolts. Remove the supports from the rear frame. Support and slightly raise the left lower control arm. Install the left shock absorber bolt to the lower control arm then remove the support. Support and slightly raise the right lower control arm. Install the right shock absorber bolt to the lower control arm then remove the support. Install the left wheel and tire assembly. Install the right wheel and tire assembly.
Lower the vehicle.
Parts Information

Part Number

Description

19133557

Kit, Rear Supplemental Frame Bushings


Parts are expected to be available for dealer ordering on July 28, 2005.

Warranty Information

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation

Description

Labor Time

H9711*

Frame, Rear Supplemental Bushings -- Install

0.7 hr

E4010

Toe, Rear Adjust

Use Published Labor Operation Time

*This labor operation is intended for bulletin use only. It will not be published in the Labor Time Guide.

naiculnila
07-19-05, 11:51 AM
damn it.......and i just got my car out of the shop yesterday!
i guess it's going back in!

ssvette
07-19-05, 11:51 AM
With this fix, does the possibility of destroying the rear reduced?

Gordy Petrovski
07-19-05, 11:59 AM
I wonder if I can get my $$ from GM for doing there job by replacing the bushings(LPE) my self.:rolleyes:

lawfive
07-19-05, 12:04 PM
Dammit, although there are extra unnecessary steps listed, it sounds as though they are adding the Specter bushings to the differential cradle... which I did the weekend before last on my own dime & sweat. Please tell me I'm wrong.

Worse: it still hops.

Koooop
07-19-05, 12:14 PM
Dammit, although there are extra unnecessary steps listed, it sounds as though they are adding the Specter bushings to the differential cradle... which I did the weekend before last on my own dime & sweat. Please tell me I'm wrong.

Worse: it still hops.

Lawfive, your car hops cuz you put TRASH CAN SIZE WHEELS ON THE BACK! :D


My car is in the shop right now, the service advisor is looking into this!

Yahoo!

dreamcarc6
07-19-05, 12:15 PM
I wonder what material the bushings are made of. Do you think they may have used Specter or Lingenfelter's bushings. From the pictures, it looks like maybe Specter.

kimcheejeegae
07-19-05, 12:22 PM
whooooooooooooooo hoooooooooooooooooooo!! sweet!!

lasstss
07-19-05, 12:26 PM
What GM is doing is suppying a part that is a knock off of the specter busings, no more...

As far as them addressing the issue, its due to this forum and the petition that we sent. Without both, it would never have been addressed.

Next , the rear. Im still waiting to hear from them.

urbanski
07-19-05, 12:27 PM
lol
"may provide..."

how are you Spectre and LPE bushing folks liking the "fix"? Moldy said no help at all....

keeksv
07-19-05, 12:29 PM
Wonder what impact this will have on GM' s willingness to replace differentials if one does or doesn't get the fix.... :hmm:

lasstss
07-19-05, 12:31 PM
lol
"may provide..."

how are you Spectre and LPE bushing folks liking the "fix"? Moldy said no help at all....

One mans opinion, the addition of the specter parts makes a major difference in the application of power. I dont care what moldy says. I have them, I had them first and they work! Hop is not eliminated but a 6K 1-2 shift was impossible beforehand.

lawfive
07-19-05, 12:44 PM
I wonder what material the bushings are made of. Do you think they may have used Specter or Lingenfelter's bushings. From the pictures, it looks like maybe Specter.

OK, where are you guys getting the text and pictures of TSBs?

Loadtoad
07-19-05, 12:44 PM
So who's volunteering to be the first lab rats to see if it's worth it and to give us all a report?

ctsvett
07-19-05, 12:52 PM
Posted on the FAQ in the TSB area: http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/tsb/

Direct link: http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/tsb/wheelhoptsb.html

FYI: this is a GM approved (warranty operation) that is virtually identical/ or VERY simialar to the lingenfelter/ specterworks bushings.

You will still get some added reduction from the BMR or KARS kits (but there may be added driveline noise)

Reed

AmesCTS-V
07-19-05, 01:05 PM
I've got the Specter bushings and once my Tranny is fixed I plan to install those and skip the TSB ones.

lawfive
07-19-05, 01:08 PM
Posted on the FAQ in the TSB area: http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/tsb/

Direct link: http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/tsb/wheelhoptsb.html

Reed

Yeah, Reed, thanks, but... where are YOU getting them?

SilverBullet
07-19-05, 01:09 PM
So who's volunteering to be the first lab rats to see if it's worth it and to give us all a report?

I am taking mine to Damien today to order the parts. Will let you know (fingers crossed with CAUTIOUS optimism...)

lawfive
07-19-05, 01:12 PM
From the pictures, it looks like maybe Specter.

... and where does one find the pictures?

ctsvett
07-19-05, 01:20 PM
no pictures of the GM ones yet.. I will let you know (unless someone can take pictures before me)

Are you asking which ones I am getting?

Reed

dreamcarc6
07-19-05, 01:57 PM
... and where does one find the pictures?

When this was originally posted there were some diagrams included with the install instructions. I called them pictures, but I suppose diagram is more accurate because somebody drew them. Sorry for the confusion.

PLATINUM-V
07-19-05, 02:19 PM
Reed I think lawfive is talking about the TSBs.

wildwhl
07-19-05, 02:21 PM
What GM is doing is suppying a part that is a knock off of the specter busings, no more...

As far as them addressing the issue, its due to this forum and the petition that we sent. Without both, it would never have been addressed.

Next , the rear. Im still waiting to hear from them.



Marty :worship:

:thumbsup:

Chuck_V
07-19-05, 02:25 PM
Awesome news, but you have to love how they are calling a WOT run abuse!

Does this mean if we go to get this addressed that they have more of a case for not honoring our warranty when something else in the drivetrain falls apart?

Guess we will find out soon won't we...

C

ctsvett
07-19-05, 02:27 PM
From my sources, this forum and marty's work is a big reason we have this "warranty" fix.

I agree with WildWhl. Marty :worship:

Reed

urbanski
07-19-05, 02:30 PM
From my sources, this forum and marty's work is a big reason we have this "warranty" fix.

I agree with WildWhl. Marty :worship:

Reed
sweet

ctsvett
07-19-05, 02:32 PM
Lawfive,
TO answer your question, I have a source online that I pay to get this information. So, everyone keep donating to the FAQ and I will keep getting this info.

FYI though, this one did NOT come from me, it came from jpsridge. I knew it was coming somtime though..

Reed

L.Sanchez
07-19-05, 02:51 PM
Thank you guys (The Forum and Marty) for what you've done!

I just set up an appointment Thursday morning to bring my car in to get this fixed. The service advisor wasn't aware of this TSB yet, so I had to fill him in. He says it shouldn't be a problem. He's checking to see if he has those bushings in stock or if he can get them quickly. So, when its all done, I'll report in.

-Ladis

lawfive
07-19-05, 03:46 PM
Next time Martin asks for people to participate, EVERYBODY participate!!

Thanks Reed for the info; lemme know when it's time for me to donate again.

ChrisFrez
07-19-05, 03:58 PM
This is awesome news!!! However, I just got back this morning from Specter Workes and had them install their bushings for me. I'm assuming that is the same fix in the TSB and I need not inquire about the TSB now.

LV_V
07-19-05, 04:19 PM
Parts are expected to be available for dealer ordering on July 28, 2005

You guys should have read the entire TSB carefully. It appears as if the parts are not available yet. If anyone finds out differently from their service rep, PLEASE post here. (Screw it; I'll just call mine right now, report back in a few)

CTS-VPaco
07-19-05, 04:32 PM
I spoke to the dealership around the corner from my shop and they were not aware of the TSB. I informed them, then noticed the July 28th projection for the parts to be available. The service advisor then suggested I wait a week and call back, which I took his advice happily and thanked him for his time.

9 days and counting...

lawfive
07-19-05, 04:37 PM
Everybody: this is a good thing and speaks well of GM, but don't get your hopes up too high. Martin had great results from the bushings, but Moldy reported no difference. And I'm somewhere in the middle: better, but not the brass ring.

RobertCTS
07-19-05, 04:40 PM
Marty :worship:
:thumbsup:

WILD WHL,
What's your plan for those V shocks you bid on at Ebay? You've already have F3s don't you? Just a nib $hit.

jspridge
07-19-05, 04:40 PM
The parts won't be available for ordering for another 9 days.

Ghost-V
07-19-05, 04:41 PM
Power to the People! Thanks all who worked on getting GM to recognize this shortcoming.

I too am a little concerned how they worded the cause of this problem. You have to specifically mention wheel hop issues, which they claim is a result over-aggressive/abusive driving. If this gives them reason to deny warranty work after said modification is installed, I may just have to settle for an occasional wheel hop episode in order to preserve GM's willingness to replace my rear-end if/when it fails.

GM does not recommend wide-open throttle accelleration from a standstill, yet they sold me a car under the premise of it's capablities from 0 to 60?!?!

:wtf:

jspridge
07-19-05, 04:48 PM
I can send the drawings if anyone wants them...

LV_V
07-19-05, 05:08 PM
Your PM's are not working, you should just post the pic here if you wouldn't mind.

ctsvett
07-19-05, 05:45 PM
js... e-mail to me and I can post on the FAQ and forum.

ctsvett@verizon.net

Reed

ctsvett
07-19-05, 05:48 PM
Ok, cause Lawfive asked, I updated the TSB database on the FAQ.

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/tsb/

Also, here is a direct link to the TSB about wheel hop (including the drawings)

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/tsb/data/tsb/05-04-114-001A.pdf

Donate to the FAQ and cadillacfourms if you like this information and want more in the future....

Reed

jspridge
07-19-05, 06:08 PM
Looks like someone got them to you before I did.

Let me know if you need any other info...

Luna.
07-19-05, 06:16 PM
GM does not recommend wide-open throttle accelleration from a standstill, yet they sold me a car under the premise of it's capablities from 0 to 60?!?!
:wtf:

THANK YOU....

urbanski
07-19-05, 06:19 PM
hey guys
do you need an alignment after installing these?

CTSV05
07-19-05, 06:22 PM
Reed you were right!!!

I always make sure to apologize when I'm wrong.

BUT, I would caution those who are on the very aggressive side of driving, this will be a partial fix only, as when I only had the spacers on our car it was a reduction, not a fix.

But for those who are not as heavy handed as me, and a little less insistent on redline powershifts, or at least, very quick throttle shifts, this will be a good thing.

Good Job Caddy!

2004ctsv
07-19-05, 06:24 PM
I have an appointment to install the BMR AWK on Monday. Looks like I'll have to cancel that one to try the GM fix first then add the BMR if it doesn't work well.


It was the 1-2 shift that irritated me. Dumping the clutch from a stop was never my concern. But I wrote the letter ala Martin anyhow.

Thanks, brother. We couldn't have done this without you.

Tony

Redline CTS-V
07-19-05, 06:29 PM
hey guys
do you need an alignment after installing these?
Abso-friggin-lutely...

At the bare minimum the rear toe needs to be set which is called for in the TSB...

AmesCTS-V
07-19-05, 06:32 PM
Was an alignment needed after installing the Specter stuff?

Florian
07-19-05, 06:58 PM
My car is on the lift waiting for a gas tank (another week) so I called my service manager and asked him to put the bushings on the TSB on while its in the air...he said no problem. Ill have a report next week.

Florian

edit: guess Ill have to wait for parts. Was too excited and didnt read the whole TSB.....

F

ChrisFrez
07-19-05, 07:28 PM
Was an alignment needed after installing the Specter stuff?

Nope, none necessary.

lawfive
07-19-05, 07:30 PM
Urby & Ames: No alignment needed after the install per Specter's instructions. From what I read of the TSB, you shouldn't need an alignment after the GM install either.

kimcheejeegae
07-19-05, 07:37 PM
Urby & Ames: No alignment needed after the install per Specter's instructions. From what I read of the TSB, you shouldn't need an alignment after the GM install either.


Yeah.. I can see the need for the toe adjustment.. but i thought you only needd an alignment if you change the ride height of the car.. in this case.. the same components are staying. What do i know? I'm still a kid. =P

willsctsv
07-19-05, 07:49 PM
BMR uses metal bushings, Are these the same bushings that Specter and Lingenfelter use in rubber formation? Same Location?
If I read teh memo correctly, Cadillac said reduce whell hop in WOT or agressive acceleration. Doesn't sound like a complete fix to me, But, It's a start.
I'll keep the BMR stuff for now. No hop most of the time. The runcraps don't help!

Rickerbucks
07-19-05, 07:50 PM
Thanks and congrats to all the forum members that helped make this happen.

It may or may no be "... the solution..." but I commend GM for respecting the owners - and the power of the net - to at least make a quality attempt.

i'm embarrassed to admit that although I printed the "letter" i never got it in the mail so I can take no credit.

CVP33
07-19-05, 08:07 PM
Reed, Marty, JSPridge and anyone else that helped get this done..............

GREAT JOB AND THANK YOU!!!

Interesting - $90 through GMPD. Seems they already have them listed.

Florian
07-19-05, 08:33 PM
:yeah: :excited: :excited:

Thanks again Marty!!!


Florian

Dreamin
07-19-05, 08:38 PM
Reed, i have forwarded you the Specter bushings install instructions (with pics)... please post to the FAQ.

The instructions are fairly different, i dont think this is the Specter Part.

Geno
07-19-05, 08:39 PM
I'm trying to get the courage up to get an appointment for the TSB work. I can see the service tech now, allowing the suspension arms to dangle, causing unsuspected damage that will have to be addressed sometime in the future...or screwing up the alignment....or.... you know what I mean....
:annoyed:

The efforts of all involved in getting this fix from GM are commended. :worship:

urbanski
07-19-05, 08:45 PM
yeah, i'll let somebody else be a first adopter, and let them comment on the alignment issue and what exactly the bushings are....alignment need a split verdict here, and I just spent 80 bux to get mine perfect.

CTSV05
07-19-05, 08:48 PM
If they are only adding bushing spacers then the alignment will be a non-issue, if done correctly.

I personally have installed 3 S-3 kits and have had no alignment problems. BUT, you can't drop all 4 bolts from the cradle at once either.

moldowan
07-19-05, 08:53 PM
Ok I need to clarify,

I talked to specter and they told me they do lots of r&d for GM. These bushings most likely are a version of specter's!
Bummer since i spend $275 w/shipping to have mine just 1 week ago:mad:
Secondly after my install which i did with the fg-2 package I DID notice an improvement in MILD starts, 1500-2000 rpm feather& wot application. As i increased the rpm and did more aggressive starts ,hop was present. Then i heard some noise from the rear.......took it into dealer and they found that the fg-2 install that was done 1 day before was the problem- they bolts to the rear shocks were LOOSE!!!!!!!!!! When i drove the car after they tightened them I notice that the hop was more present than the day before (loose shock bolts) BUT....... it still is a little better than totally stock form. The BIG thing is the increase in noise transfer to the cabin..... YOU WILL NOTICE IT!
I believe urbys new tires (compared to Runflats) solved as much of the hop as my bushings did WItH the runflats! a combo of both should be even better! But....remember the noise issue.
hope this helps clarify my position on it:)
-moldy

cts-v ls6
07-19-05, 08:55 PM
What's the latest on a permanent fix for the rear ends? Will the '06 V model have a heavier duty rear end that will take the torque of the motor? And bolt in '04 and '05 V's?

Eliminating wheel hop, all or part, is great. Having a rear end with the strength of a '69 12 bolt is what we need.

Anyone heard what's going on in that department?

ace996
07-19-05, 09:13 PM
The reason GM is stating that a "toe" fix is needed is because they are disassembling a little more than what is needed. With the Specter bushings, they can be installed without unscrewing anything but the cradle bolts and the wheel lugs.

On the other hand...if the spacers are thicker than the Specter's, than a toe adjustment may be needed.

Based on the drawings, the bushings are EXACTLY what the Specters are...rings with inserts that invade the stock bushing voids. If the material is hard, like the Specter delrin inserts, I'll be pissed...but not as pissed as Specter should be....

Very good mod, not a total complete fix....there's much more that needs addressing for a total fix (ie. KARS kit), but a major improvement over the stock jiggles. And we're not alone...at a BMW autox this weekend the E46 M3s were skipping off the line, no less than I was.

Time will tell.

ctsvett
07-19-05, 09:19 PM
Moldowan,
These are very similar to the Spectre parts for the same reason you mentioned (That was from my source as well). However, they will NOT add much noise to the cabin (from my source- NOT personal experience- yet). The added noise may be from tires or the FG2 themselves on your setup (since you did them at the same time).

Either the Spectre or the GM fix in combination with the KARS or BMR kit will ad some noise, but will reduce hop even more (if you want the more agressive setup)

Jspridge,
I grabbed the stuff, can you shoot me an e-mail though? ctsvett@verizon.net

Reed

lawfive
07-19-05, 09:22 PM
Bummer since i spend $275 w/shipping to have mine just 1 week ago:mad:

Me too, bro. I feel your pain.


I DID notice an improvement in MILD starts, 1500-2000 rpm feather& wot application. As i increased the rpm and did more aggressive starts ,hop was present.

Y yo tambien.


The BIG thing is the increase in noise transfer to the cabin..... YOU WILL NOTICE IT!

The Specter bushings did not result in more noise for me. :hmm:

All this talk of cradle bushings reminds me that I need to re-torque the bolts... tonight! We'll see if that helps anything.

moldowan
07-19-05, 09:25 PM
here is my hunnter print out before alignment, but after bushings/fg-2 install and the values after it was on machine.
seem almost identical
-moldy

lasstss
07-19-05, 10:54 PM
Just another comment guys.. The specter/ gm peices have been developed to control the movement of the cradle/subframe that holds the diff. Wheel hop is reduced as the diff and the cradle are no longer moving around together. At least one item is locked up. The real improvement is in the clatter that came with the wheelhop and made it sound like the rear was going to jump out of the car. This came from the cradle banging up against the body mount points. With the bushings in, this is totally eliminated. Aside from the moderate wheel hop, Its quiet back there. Some of us blew the $250 for the specter peices but in the end, it got everyone else a free fix. Thats a good thing! I wouldnt be a bit suprised if GM makes a kit that is a little more resilient as opposed to specter. Like Reed pointed out, Specter did the R&D for GM on this. The final product might be a bit different.

HDMLNIUM
07-19-05, 11:01 PM
Marty,

Along with making bad ass billet pieces you get things done, thanks for your efforts.. :worship:

Bill

lasstss
07-19-05, 11:13 PM
Marty,

Along with making bad ass billet pieces you get things done, thanks for your efforts.. :worship:

Bill

Thanks, hey you get lucky once and a while. New diff tomorrow and then I start the maggie install + Stealth tune job to Follow. Serious sh&%! :D

DILLIGAF
07-19-05, 11:19 PM
You the man Marty!!!!!!!

VELOSE
07-20-05, 04:11 AM
Thanks, hey you get lucky once and a while. New diff tomorrow and then I start the maggie install + Stealth tune job to Follow. Serious sh&%! :D

I'm right behind you on that too Marty. Just waiting for maggie to show up. ;)

Thanks again for everyone that was, and is involved to make our voices heard.:thumbsup:

I'm calling the dealer tomorrow for some bushings.

Marty, you'll know what I mean when I say thanks for the hook up.:worship:

DgtalPimp
07-20-05, 07:35 AM
So has anyone actually been to the dealer and had the fix done? Was there a noticable difference in the wheel hop/cabin noise?

When I get back in town I'll set an appt. with my dealer to get this done. If I remeber I'll record video on the way to the dealer (road noise) and then after to show difference.

Dooman
07-20-05, 09:29 AM
And, will all the 06 models come with them installed from the factory???

Kadonny
07-20-05, 09:40 AM
And, will all the 06 models come with them installed from the factory???

They had better since I plan on being in an 06.

6104696
07-20-05, 09:52 AM
Eliminating wheel hop, all or part, is great. Having a rear end with the strength of a '69 12 bolt is what we need.



YES.

evil 8
07-20-05, 09:59 AM
I already have the BMR kit, what effect will the GM "fix" have in conjunction with the BMR?

BeelzeBob
07-20-05, 10:05 AM
I do hope that Moore Cadillac makes a nice chunk of money from our visitors but I also hope that Moore Cadillac will help support this great resource (http://www.cadillacforums.com/subscribe.html) of Cadillac owners and enthusiasts. We don't have many "Supporting Cadillac Dealerships" onboard and it would be great to see that change...


Yes that is right, Gm has announced a fix for wheel hop in all 04-05 CTSV to controll wheel hop on full throttle application from standstill and/or 1-2 shift

If anyone would like to bring there car in for this fix and has this problem, please call or email me.

Thanks
Damian Harney

Moore Cadillac

Damianharney@moorecadillac.com

703-448-6210

Congrats to all who have stuck in there and had some faith in GM. it was only a matter of time before they addressed this concern. Also we nee to thanks GM and Cadillac for taking the time to address this and make a fix for it

Mowgli
07-20-05, 11:38 AM
Having a rear end with the strength of a '69 12 bolt is what we need.Or better yet, the Ford 9" rear.

I'm trying to get the courage up to get an appointment for the TSB work. I can see the service tech now, allowing the suspension arms to dangle, causing unsuspected damage that will have to be addressed sometime in the future...or screwing up the alignment....or.... you know what I mean.... I am with you on that reservation - haven't had a dealer MECHANIC (sorry I just can't make myself use the tech word) yet do something completely right, they always damage something else. For me, going to the dealer for warranty work is like getting chemo therapy for cancer... whats worse, the disease or the treatment?

Think I'll wait and just go easier thru 2nd gear.

6104696
07-20-05, 11:50 AM
Or better yet, the Ford 9" rear.
I am with you on that reservation - haven't had a dealer MECHANIC (sorry I just can't make myself use the tech word) yet do something completely right, they always damage something else. For me, going to the dealer for warranty work is like getting chemo therapy for cancer... whats worse, the disease or the treatment?

Think I'll wait and just go easier thru 2nd gear.

a year ago I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly but here in Northern VA we are lucky sunzabitches to have at least one caddy dealer who, at least as far as I am concerned, is yet to do anything less than perfectly on my CTS-V.

:worship: Lindsay Cadillac

And, as Damien's posts indicate, we have a second one 15 miles away that is trying to make a name for themselves, Moore Cadillac (though they have had some detractors on this forum).

Yes I do acknowledge that these are exceptions, but they both should be commended for what they are doing for us and for the General.

Doug

lasstss
07-20-05, 11:55 AM
a year ago I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly but here in Northern VA we are lucky sunzabitches to have at least one caddy dealer who, at least as far as I am concerned, is yet to do anything less than perfectly on my CTS-V.

:worship: Lindsay Cadillac

And, as Damien's posts indicate, we have a second one 15 miles away that is trying to make a name for themselves, Moore Cadillac (though they have had some detractors on this forum).

Yes I do acknowledge that these are exceptions, but they both should be commended for what they are doing for us and for the General.

Doug


I will second this... It takes me 2.5-3 hours round trip to drop my car off at Lindsay but its worth it to not have to deal with the characters in my town. I dont want to call it preferrential.... but James takes care of you..

Koooop
07-20-05, 02:34 PM
I really don't complain of the rear wheel hop at launch or on a hard 1-2 shift...My complaint to the dealer (yesterday), I find the hop to be incredibly annoying when I drive in the rain (35" of rain here in So Cal last year).

"The damn car hops like a pogo stick when at take off if the ground is wet" I want the update NOW!

The car is at the Dealer now.

wildwhl
07-20-05, 03:07 PM
Wow...over 2,000 views and 3 pages long in one short day.

Guess we really are interested in a fix!

homer403
07-20-05, 03:16 PM
Thanks Marty :rolleyes: ! I just called Lindsay Cadillac and put myself on the list.

ctsvett
07-20-05, 04:49 PM
I wish lindsay cadillac was near me.. they sound like a class operation....

Reed

GNSCOTT
07-20-05, 05:00 PM
I have an appointment on the 26th to have the bushings put in. I will be very leary of the alignment issues seeing what I went through with another dealer bringing it to a firestone and they put the wrong alignment on it twice and my wife drove like that for 7k miles. I get wheelhop 100% of the time now so i should be able to tell if there is an improvement. Kudos to GM for at least coming up with something.

NIK
07-20-05, 05:29 PM
Parts Information

Part Number

Description

19133557

Kit, Rear Supplemental Frame Bushings


Parts are expected to be available for dealer ordering on July 28, 2005.


This is great news inasmuch as you don't have to be an overly aggressive driver in order to experience the wheel hop - just get the tires spinning in the rain or on snow (easy to do) and you will experience it.

FYI - see above (as written in the TSB.)

Dave's V
07-20-05, 06:57 PM
This definitely sounds like a step in the right direction. My dealer's mechanic is probably tired looking at my Vs rear end.

As far as Cadillac and the abuse statement goes; I just want the car to do what Cadillac advertised it in the commercial. I guess they abused the V also when they filmed "Bang" or the numerous "0-60 in under 5 seconds" commercials.

RobzBLKV
07-20-05, 09:25 PM
I am going to give my dealer a few days to call me. I still have an open customer service "episode" with them for not fixing anything after they acknowledged something was wrong with the transmission. Once they don't call, I will have it fixed, but I will also consider going farther away for a different dealer next time.

Regardless, they are doing *something* which is better than just blaming their customers.

akm2k5
07-20-05, 09:35 PM
exactly..


As far as Cadillac and the abuse statement goes; I just want the car to do what Cadillac advertised it in the commercial. I guess they abused the V also when they filmed "Bang" or the numerous "0-60 in under 5 seconds" commercials.

Koooop
07-21-05, 03:09 PM
So, I picked up the V this morning. Regarding the Wheel hop, the service advisor stated:

1) The car is operating normally, we tested it.
2) Your tires are in need of replacement, that's the source of the hop.
3) There is no TSB #05-04-114-001A.
4) Come get your car it's done and I'll be out tomorrow.

My answer: Fred, that's all BULLSHOOT! I want the update kit, I'll be in tomorrow to straighten this out with the manager.

Sooooo, the customer relations guy came out to see me, I expect FRED won't be out just tomorrow, I think he's getting the whole summer off. The hop repair kit is ordered and will be installed next week.

My other question was: Why the F!@K are there 19 miles on my car?

Answer: "When we reflash the PCM we are required to drive the car about 15 miles as part of the process". I'm not sure I buy that, but what do I know.

akm2k5
07-21-05, 03:15 PM
Did you want the PCM reflashed on your car? Seems a lot of people hate it.

Koooop
07-21-05, 03:18 PM
I didn't want it done, Dipstick FRED (the service advisor) told me it needed to be done. I'll go beat the cubes later to see if there is a difference.
:burn:

akm2k5
07-21-05, 03:20 PM
wow, I think I would be angry about that too.. They dont do the service you want, but they, without asking you or getting permission, do service you dont want, and add like 19 miles to the car. I would raise hell..
http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gifhttp://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/rant.gif

I didn't want it done, Dipstick FRED (the service advisor) told me it needed to be done. I'll go beat the cubes later to see if there is a difference.
:burn:

VELOSE
07-21-05, 03:29 PM
akm2k5,
Your avatar is really distracting. At first I was like WTF! Then, I was like Oh...... :D

Some service advisors are repugnant to knowledge owners have of their vehicles. Screw Fred. :D

RobertCTS
07-21-05, 03:37 PM
[QUOTE=VELOSE]akm2k5,
Your avatar is really distracting. At first I was like WTF! Then, I was like Oh...... :D
QUOTE]
Is it me or does is his avatar look naughty?:hmm: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/customavatars/avatar20068_1.gif (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/member.php?u=20068)

RobzBLKV
07-21-05, 03:39 PM
I had the reflash done (mostly b/c I like it when the diagnostic software works right) and I haven't noticed any negative effects. Had it screamin this morning on the way in, too.

urbanski
07-21-05, 04:29 PM
I had the reflash done (mostly b/c I like it when the diagnostic software works right) and I haven't noticed any negative effects. Had it screamin this morning on the way in, too.
so what is wrong with the diagnostic software? what's the flash fix?

akm2k5
07-21-05, 04:36 PM
What do you guys see? I just see someone holding a scroll mouse...http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/shhh.gif


[QUOTE=VELOSE]akm2k5,
Your avatar is really distracting. At first I was like WTF! Then, I was like Oh...... :D
QUOTE]
Is it me or does is his avatar look naughty?:hmm: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/customavatars/avatar20068_1.gif (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/member.php?u=20068)

globed70
07-21-05, 04:42 PM
I'm happy that GM is going to address the issue. Not expecting the wheelhop to be 100% resolved, but I will be a satisfied customer if they can reduce wheelhop to a similar level to other high-power IRS cars, and at the same time reduce the sledgehammer slapping sound when it does occur.

What bothers me is the amount of time required for GM to offer a solution. I wonder if differential warranty costs drove this... more so than unsatisfied customers. Waiting 6 months for a oil temp fix (for early 04ers) was pathetic, and 16 months for this... all of which GM engineers clearly understood prior to release.

LV_V
07-21-05, 04:49 PM
I wonder if differential warranty costs drove this...


With no doubt

dreamcarc6
07-21-05, 04:50 PM
My other question was: Why the F!@K are there 19 miles on my car?

So, I picked up the V this morning. Regarding the Wheel hop, the service advisor stated:

1) The car is operating normally, we tested it.


Rearranged your post a little bit, and you answered your own question.

wildwhl
07-21-05, 04:56 PM
Just let them try and reflash my PCM :D

RobertCTS
07-21-05, 05:17 PM
What do you guys see? I just see someone holding a scroll mouse...http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/shhh.gif

Hint: I think it's been waxed?

akm2k5
07-21-05, 06:33 PM
oh my god.. You perve! I may have to change my avatar now to this:

http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/6970/badmario1ht.gif


Hint: I think it's been waxed?

Koooop
07-21-05, 07:50 PM
After the reflash the auto up feature on the front windows didn't work for while, the Customer Relations guy said they had to put the miles on after the reflash to get things working again. Other than that the car seems to be fine.

I do believe that FRED the advisor caught the AXE today.

BYE BYE FRED.

MikeF
07-21-05, 08:43 PM
yeah, i'll let somebody else be a first adopter, and let them comment on the alignment issue and what exactly the bushings are....alignment need a split verdict here, and I just spent 80 bux to get mine perfect.

Hey no fair! I was waiting for you to go to Cavander and give them some experience, move them up the learning curve.

urbanski
07-21-05, 09:09 PM
Hey no fair! I was waiting for you to go to Cavander and give them some experience, move them up the learning curve.
LOL :)
with the PS2s and not trying to be drag racer man...I'm happy with my current level of hop. I'll give this fix some time to get out there more.

The Tony Show
07-22-05, 01:02 AM
Hold in the "up" switch on your windows for a few seconds (while the windows are already up). You'll hear a "click" from the window motor, that's the torque sensor resetting. Your express up feature will now work again.

Barak
07-22-05, 01:51 AM
so what is wrong with the diagnostic software? what's the flash fix?

From what I heard, when GM was trying to put in the VIN during the end of line testing the ECM wasn't accepting it and some cars left the factory without the VIN. This is grounds for recall on 05MY cars, and GM now has to reflash the ECM in order for the VIN to take. As I've mentioned before, those in California won't be able to get their tags if they don't have this taken care of. The reason for the test drive is probably to allow the adaptations to relearn before the customers gets the car back and begins complaining about driveability problems.

Why the auto up feature didn't work on the windows is beyond me. Stuff like that should be controlled by the BCM and the reflash should have no affect on that controller.

PLATINUM-V
07-22-05, 09:03 AM
Here's the reprograming of windows out of the manual:

Programming the Power Windows


If the battery on your vehicle has been recharged,


disconnected or is not working, you will need to


reprogram each front power window for the express-up


feature to work. Before reprogramming, you will need


to replace or recharge your vehicle’s battery.


To program each front window, follow these steps:


1. With the ignition in ACCESSORY, ON or when


Retained Accessory Power (RAP) is active, close


all doors.


2. Press and hold the down arrow on the power


window switch until the window has fully opened.


3. Press the up arrow on the power window switch


until the window is fully closed.


4. Continue holding up arrow on the switch for


approximately two seconds after the window


is completely closed.


The window is now reprogrammed. Repeat the process


for the other front window.

SBONES
07-22-05, 10:06 AM
what do I do.....tell the dealer i want this done??? what if they give me a hard time about putting this in...

ctsvett
07-22-05, 12:37 PM
http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/window.html

Reed

akm2k5
07-23-05, 12:42 AM
edited...http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif my avatar (atleast until I finish reading the avatar thread).. unfortunatly I cant edit the mario.

Koooop
07-23-05, 01:03 AM
Hold in the "up" switch on your windows for a few seconds (while the windows are already up). You'll hear a "click" from the window motor, that's the torque sensor resetting. Your express up feature will now work again.

They started working fine after a couple of miles, but thanks for the tip.

MikeF
07-23-05, 01:04 AM
I don't drag race either. I respect a car that can accelerate fast, I guess, but not the driver. Those German musclecars require no skill of any kind at all to dragrace and so far, nothing has been able to run with my stock V on my favorite winding roads. On, say, TX337 West from Medina it would take a very good driver in a dedicated sports car (or bike) to dog me.

Us Texans outta get together in Kerrville for a Hill Country run. Some weekday. The thousands of bikes and rubbernecking tourists make the roads boring on weekends. And there's officer Sanchez to deal with, so at least one guy, the one on point, will need a microwave detector.

GNSCOTT
07-27-05, 09:43 AM
Well my wife dropped her V off yesterday for the "fix" and to have the car detailed (paid for by caddy, long story) They called later that afternoon to say that the car looks great, but.............they don't have the part. WTF, I made the appointment a week ago and I assumed they would have said they did not have the part before I brought the car there, or at least when my wife dropped the car off. Oh well, I guess we will try again.

RobertCTS
07-27-05, 09:52 AM
Well my wife dropped her V off yesterday for the "fix" and to have the car detailed (paid for by caddy, long story) They called later that afternoon to say that the car looks great, but.............they don't have the part. WTF, I made the appointment a week ago and I assumed they would have said they did not have the part before I brought the car there, or at least when my wife dropped the car off. Oh well, I guess we will try again.

Different problem but the same thing happened to me. Why don't they call you that the part isn't in so you don't waste the trip. For now on I call and ask if the part is in.:annoyed: It's the parts dept and service dept not communicating.

SBONES
07-27-05, 10:00 AM
my dealer told me that the parts arnt even ready yet. and they will call when it comes in. the 28th is the day, hopefully....:coolgleam

GNSCOTT
07-27-05, 03:09 PM
I just made an appointment last week. They had a week to find out when they would have the part. They are the ones that SHOULD have more info than me. Then the service guy trys to tell me i'm 3rd on the list when the part comes in and he had 15 requests. I don't think they sold that many V's. I then told him I highly dobted it and to check his "list" again because I called the day the info came out and that I was the one that had to give the other rep the TPI number because she knew nothing about it. I just REALLY despise car dealerships. They lie even when they don't have to.

I then went into the sales dept to see about ordering an 06 V under GMS. He told me they would have to get permission,and that they did not have the info on pricing. Did not ask for my name or number or anything. Another CRAPPY GM dealership. If there was a $1k option on the V called the "honest dealership option" I would pay for it, because this is the 3rd out of 3 that have just dropped the ball with me and I am real easy to please. I did not bitch about them rashing my stock wheels when changing tires, and I didn't bitch today when i had to wait a half hour for the guy who moved my car today to bring back the keys he left in his pocket.

Drift-caddy
07-27-05, 03:15 PM
Well GN we are right down the road from you, just hope on 95s and 8 hours later your here. lol 06 V do have alot of changes, including the rear. but we also have no date or price as of yet. we can guess.

damian

GNSCOTT
07-27-05, 03:18 PM
Damian, What were the prices released by mheri01? Are those just press prices? 8 hours is a joy ride for me.

SBONES
07-27-05, 08:38 PM
im in pa, and just drove 10 hrs to get a tune done by more performance. Ill make the 8 hr trip too, if u treat me better then my dealer. I might have to pay for the bushings and the install...:cookoo:

Dave's V
07-30-05, 06:11 PM
I just tried to get the parts ordered but they must verify that it wheel hops first:hmm:. They didn't have time to do it yesterday. It rarely does it in Utah due to the elevation I guess (4300 feet). However, when I tested it in Death Valley it wheel hopped like crazy.

I'm going to try to get them to order the parts with out testing it (Cadillac says that is abuse anyway) Why do I want my dealer to "abuse" my car? I plan on writing a letter to Cadillac that I'm tired of hearing abuse come up everytime a V driver wants to accelerate the car to its full potential. I wonder if Toyota calls accerating the Prius at 100% abuse. I hope not because they already hold up traffic as it is.

CVP33
07-30-05, 06:19 PM
They don't have to duplicate the hop, you simply need to complain about the hop. That dealer is BS-ing you on this one. My dealership has already ordered my new bushings, I'm afraid we're all in for a wait. I doubt they'll be able to make them quick enough for all of us. I believe the Service Manager told me they had to "SPAC" the parts. Something regarding a national database ordering system. Maybe one of our dealer friends can explain.

Dave's V
07-30-05, 06:37 PM
When I bring the car in once the rear panel cover comes in I plan on bringing them a copy of the TSB. I'm not going to let them wheel hop the crap out of my rear dif.

I hope the bushings don't take as long to come in as Florian's gas tank.

drmustang
07-30-05, 08:44 PM
Will the new rear end used in the 06s be the replacement unit for a failed unit in an 05?

2004ctsv
07-30-05, 11:22 PM
I copied the bulletin and put it on the service manager's desk today (they quit at noon on Saturday). He hadn't heard of the fix as of Thursday.


I have the BMR AWK in a box in my garage. I'll probably install the cross member after I get the GM bushings.

Tony

Florian
07-31-05, 01:45 AM
My bushings arrived Friday, I wont get the chance to get them installed until Monday....cant wait to see how they work.

F

GNSCOTT
07-31-05, 10:58 AM
My bushings arrived Friday, I wont get the chance to get them installed until Monday....cant wait to see how they work.

F

Are you saying your new GM bushing kit came in? I just did a parts search and it said there were none available at any dealership in the country. I just figured they were late getting them to market. I used this part # 19133557

SBONES
07-31-05, 01:22 PM
my dealer said that part # was available as of fri...

GNSCOTT
07-31-05, 08:00 PM
my dealer said that part # was available as of fri...

That doesn't mean GM has them or that they are ready to ship yet. Like I said, i did a national parts search for that # (friend used to be a GM parts guy and gave me his password) and it comes up with no dealers having any. I could have entered a wrong part # (just going by what was printed here) but GM parts direct doesn;t show it in their system. That is why I am wondering if any have arrived at dealerships.

SBONES
07-31-05, 08:30 PM
i dont know, as soon as i hear something about it ill post..

hd750
08-01-05, 12:07 AM
I copied the bulletin and put it on the service manager's desk today (they quit at noon on Saturday). He hadn't heard of the fix as of Thursday.


I have the BMR AWK in a box in my garage. I'll probably install the cross member after I get the GM bushings.

Tony

What dealer did you take it to?

Joey'sVee
08-01-05, 09:46 AM
Mine are on...just gotta go pick it up. I'll report the results later today!

Staxxin
08-01-05, 09:57 AM
I dropped my car off at the dealer this morning for a couple small items and I asked about the Wheel Hop TSB. They highly recommeded NOT doing this on a "daily" driver. They recommened it only for track purposes. What's the over all consensus on the fix. If I should have it done, I would like to do it while it's in the shop.

urbanski
08-01-05, 10:00 AM
I dropped my car off at the dealer this morning for a couple small items and I asked about the Wheel Hop TSB. They highly recommeded NOT doing this on a "daily" driver. They recommened it only for track purposes. What's the over all consensus on the fix. If I should have it done, I would like to do it while it's in the shop.
utter BS. sounds like that dealer is too lazy to do the repair. must not pay much :rolleyes:
find another dealer or demand they do it.

Staxxin
08-01-05, 10:35 AM
Thanks Urbanski, they did say they haven't done this before. Should I be worried, is this difficult? Should I find another dealer that's done this? I don't want them to get their feet wet on my car. However I want the car to be the best it can. What should I expect after it's done in terms of daily driver. Will the car be noticably stiffer, etc.

GNSCOTT
08-01-05, 12:23 PM
Mine are on...just gotta go pick it up. I'll report the results later today!

Are yours the GM bushing kit or aftermarket? Do you have the part # for the kit?

Staxxin
08-01-05, 12:34 PM
It would be the GM bushing kit referenced in the TSB.

Drift-caddy
08-01-05, 12:58 PM
Staxxin, when are you going to bring the car in here to get it done.

Damian
Moore cadillac

Staxxin
08-01-05, 01:05 PM
Yeah, I know, I need too. I've been taking my car to the same dealer I bought it from in Bel Air, MD and I was hoping this would be something simple that they could handle. Can you provide any feedback on what I will notice after the installation.

Thanks!

Joey'sVee
08-01-05, 05:57 PM
My results are in my other thread...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47502

RobzBLKV
08-01-05, 06:01 PM
My results are in my other thread...

How about a link? Couldn't find it. I suppose I will do a search, but still. Make it easy on us lazy people!