: Dyno slip



willsctsv
07-15-05, 03:17 PM
Here is my dyno run with the following mods:

1.LPE CAI
2.Stealth FFV
3.B&B headers, no cats
4.X pipe/3" B&B exhaust
5. Stealth V tune

I e-mailed Rick, although the tune feels great. I think we can pick up another 25-30 HP if we lean out the A/F's a bit. Overall the #'s are pretty nice, considering I'm running sooo rich!

talalhz
07-15-05, 04:42 PM
You need cams

LV_V
07-15-05, 04:49 PM
That dyno seems a little low on torque. Have you talked to Rick yet about that? I am planning on doing the same setup as you.

CaddyGeek
07-15-05, 06:20 PM
Will,

Do you have any previous dyno results so that we can compare the gains?

CTSVLS6
07-15-05, 10:14 PM
Just a little compairson.
Corsa exhaust, Stainless Works headers, High flow cats, More air box, DTE tune. 375 rwhp, 375 rwtq. Tq. is what will make your car pull hard. http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30731

JOEYCTS-V
07-15-05, 10:21 PM
Will, I agree that your torque seems way off. Where did you have your car dyno'ed? Your HP doesn't seem too far off though. What conditions did you run the car at and what kind of dyno?

ace996
07-15-05, 10:57 PM
Yeah...Will,

Where'd you get it dyno'd?
Thanks,
ace996

willsctsv
07-16-05, 10:39 AM
NJ, IMP, the guy runs PDA Driving school, they work on mostly Ricers with turbos.
Cool guys, 100 buck for 2 runs on a Mustang Dyno. They said it's better than a Dynojet becuse it loads the car, and Dynojet does not.

I was thinking of going to Vette doctors in Long Island, for a Dyno tune. They will run a before and after on the, so I at least I can see if there is an improvement. Vette doctors use dynojet. So having that before run will be interesting.

The LS1Tech guys think that Dynojet gives more generous #'s.
I know dynos will vary, so on the HP I'm close to DTE's #'s. The tQ is way low. If I get the a/f leaned out a bit I should see alot more power.

There is no doubt the car feels fast, but I would like to squeeze out a bit more.
IMP said if I get them the ecm wiring diagram, they can find which prongs are for the A/F ratios, and then they can lean em out, and get me to 390-400 RWHP.

urbanski
07-16-05, 11:39 AM
yep, a Mustang dyno adds a load to the drums equal to the weight of the car....so your numbers are low due to that.
Have them do a plain Dynojet run with SAE corrected numbers, so you can compare apples to apples.

Rey
07-16-05, 12:17 PM
LS6 motors run pig rich at WOT. GM designs the fuel programing for this. It used to be that GM cars ran open loop at WOT, but now it is my understanding that they run closed loop at WOT.
My CTS-V had the same fuel curve as yours running stock. I now have a TPIS computer tune, which, among other things, leaned out WOT. I am a bit surprised that Stealth did not do this with your car. I thought everyone had the technology to do this.

willsctsv
07-16-05, 05:11 PM
Maybe the a/r's show up a bit different on Ricks program than the tailpipe check that was done on the Dyno. Rick????? :hmm:

urbanski
07-16-05, 06:27 PM
I now have a TPIS computer tune, which, among other things, leaned out WOT. I am a bit surprised that Stealth did not do this with your car. I thought everyone had the technology to do this.
StealthV uses a wideband O2 sensor plugged into the header before the cat, so you cannot compare a tailpipe sensor to actual header data. I don't care what a dyno tells me...it's not a real AFR.
That and he hasn't publically released his final version yet. Baby steps....too lean and you fry the cats, unhappy customers.

Rey
07-16-05, 07:15 PM
Urbanski,
Something I do not understand about your comment. If X amount of fuel is combined with Y amount of air in the intake track for a specific ratio, just how does that ratio change after the cats? Seems to me that wide-band meter will read the same no matter where it is plugged in. Please explain, because if Steath has discovered this discrepancy, there are a lot of tuners out there who are fumbling in the dark.

urbanski
07-16-05, 07:31 PM
Urbanski,
Something I do not understand about your comment. If X amount of fuel is combined with Y amount of air in the intake track for a specific ratio, just how does that ratio change after the cats? Seems to me that wide-band meter will read the same no matter where it is plugged in. Please explain, because if Steath has discovered this discrepancy, there are a lot of tuners out there who are fumbling in the dark.
beats me dude:)
.....i'll have to have the experts and engineers explain it from here
:cheers:

willsctsv
07-16-05, 08:04 PM
Should not make a difference on my tune, weather you use the wideband o2 bungs or not. I have no cats. So a tailpipe reading will yield the same results as a reading off the header. You can't be lean at the header and rich at the tail pipe.

wildwhl
07-16-05, 08:07 PM
The AFR is a little rich - but generally speaking there isn't a ton of power left to be had (safely) by going from say 12.2/1 to 13/1. The reading after the cats is certainly different than before since the cats have some affect on the exhaust gas passing through them - how much - I don't know.

Personally, I like to keep the AFR a little fat and avoid Kaboom! as much as possible.

Would be real curious to see those numbers Dynojet/SAE compensated...as it seems Mustang numbers are generally reported to be lower than the aforementioned combo.

Do you like how she drives? How's the throttle response?

I know the details of Rick's tunes quite well - you'll never get as complete a tune from tuning on the dyno - but to each his own :drinker

EDIT: Will, you were posting as I was - didn't realize you had no cats. The commanded AFR is likely set leaner than that in the tune...the PCM and sensors interpret that to some degree - Rick - or any other tuners - care to explain? If I try...I'm sure I'll F it up!

For example - when I'm WB02 logging - the actual AFR is often somewhat different than commanded. I believe this has something to do with the NB02's among other things and am way over my head from this point forward :bighead:

JOEYCTS-V
07-16-05, 11:35 PM
Will, I hear nothing but good things about the Vette Doctors. A few friends of mine bring their cars there and their prices are VERY reasonable.

knockout_tx
07-17-05, 01:03 AM
It seems the rule of thumb is to add 8-12% on the mustang Dyno to get the the numbers normally got on the Dyno Jet.........We normally use 8%.

Ends up around 396 RWHP...........not bad.

willsctsv
07-17-05, 11:22 AM
Well, Ill see if your right Knockout tx. I hop you are. I will be making an appointment this week. Probably go on Friday. Wow, 396RWHP is awesome, If my dyno slip read that I would of been :dance:
But with my a/r's in the 10's, and on average most guys are running safely and making most power in the 13's, I want to try it out.
If your conversion is right, I can probably pull over 400 at the wheels by leaning out a little. Now that's a nice ride. The V will be in E55 territory, and the new M5's and M6's won't dust me.

Wild, There is no question the car pulls like an animal, I just think the dyno is the best way to tweak it. In all fairness to Rick, His price and service were great, and I know he is still working on the tune. I was one of the first to get his tune, and I know Rick will fine tune his tune with a little more time.
I'm a hasty guy and want things when I want em. I hope all the feedback helps everyone on the forum.

wildwhl
07-17-05, 11:39 AM
will-

I hear ya! It would be totally :jawdrop: to have a n/a V in E55 territory.





I might even have to learn to play :violin: for the dead Merc's in your path :worship:

StealthV
07-17-05, 09:15 PM
Your A:F curve is beautiful. On the dyno, it's in the 11s to over 12 at peak hp - there's no 10s so that confuses me. :hmm:

In the real world on the street or track, your A:F will lean out and is right where it needs to be. Nothing to worry about. Put your V just the way it is on a DynoJet and it'll be pushing 400.

willsctsv
07-18-05, 06:23 PM
Thanks Rick, I'll check it this week. I just got back from the Glen Today. I did 2 sessions and had to leave early. I feel like I'm destroying my car:banghead: . I have honed my skills to the point that I'm actually bored with the V on the track:coolgleam . But, I now know the limits of the V, and that alone was worth the track days. I drive the V with alot more confidence. :cool:
The main reason is the Flag guy sent me to pit in. I did not know why? The car felt fine, but my brakes were fading fast:hmm: . The Hawk HPS suck on the track. The stock Brembos were better. even though they wear faster.
Well when I came down pit road they told me my front brakes looked like they were on fire:wtf: , and I should check them. I went to pit in and everything was fine. Probably just my rotors glowing. This never happened with the Brembo pads.
My brake fade was pretty bad. So I cut my track day early.
Guess what Rick?
The power of the car was awesome. No engine light problems. No cats to fry.
The good stuff, I left for the day with a grin. :thumbsup: I ran with a Carrera S, I even passed him once and on the straight I would pick up a little distance. Not much! Those cars are fast! Period!:want:
2 Worked C5 vettes with slicks, A turbo Porsche 911(new one), He was gaining a little distance on me with his buddy in a GT3, but not killing me, and in 30 minutes they did not lap me or come close to lapping me!
All in all, It felt great to run my sedan right there with true race cars, 2 seaters.
The Porshe guys were cool, and were shocked by the power and agility of the V to actually hang through the turns, as well as the straights.
Dynojet this week. Rick I'll keep you posted.

L.Sanchez
07-18-05, 09:15 PM
How much louder is the DTE system???

I got the V to have a nice, sports car like luxury car. I put an intake on it, and I'm thinking of doing a computer tune to it just to pick up a little more power. I've been staying away from exhaust mods because I really don't need another loud car. Does it resonate in the cabin or drone at all around town or on the highway???

JOEYCTS-V
07-18-05, 09:53 PM
With the Corsa, you get the best of both worlds. No resonance, quiet while cruising around, and it will scream when you want it to. The great thing about it is the sound is quiet inside the car, even at WOT.

trukk
07-19-05, 10:51 AM
I went to a mustang 1800 dyno a few weeks back. The load was set at 4000 LBS, and I ended up with 307 HP (don't have the slip in front of me, for the Tq).

Mine was the highest of the three V's there. A bone stock '05 GTO, went on (I think they set the load to 3800), and he ran 304.

A worked Z06, with a procharger (dynojet'ed @ 485), ended up @ 390. Not sure what they put his load at, but they may have left it @ the GTO weight, as that seemed low even for a mustang.

It wasn't too hot mid-low 80's, mid humidity (40-50% ?, just a guess). My car was tested 3rd of the 5. I hauled ass to get there, so my car was soaked, but it got to cool probabaly 1.5 hours with the hood up. Mustangs require some sort of 'calibration' run prior to the actual testing run (not sure if dynojets do this or not), so the first and highest numbers are more like a 2nd run. I forgot to look at the oil & water temp on the run. I also forgot to turn of TC (don't think this affected anything though).

My experiance and $.02

-Chris

sefa01
07-19-05, 12:12 PM
Thanks Rick, I'll check it this week. I just got back from the Glen Today. I did 2 sessions and had to leave early. I feel like I'm destroying my car:banghead: . I have honed my skills to the point that I'm actually bored with the V on the track:coolgleam . But, I now know the limits of the V, and that alone was worth the track days. I drive the V with alot more confidence. :cool:
The main reason is the Flag guy sent me to pit in. I did not know why? The car felt fine, but my brakes were fading fast:hmm: . The Hawk HPS suck on the track. The stock Brembos were better. even though they wear faster.
Well when I came down pit road they told me my front brakes looked like they were on fire:wtf: , and I should check them. I went to pit in and everything was fine. Probably just my rotors glowing. This never happened with the Brembo pads.
My brake fade was pretty bad. So I cut my track day early.
.

Will: I know what you say when you say "I feel like I'm destroying my car." After being towed off the track again (cracked shifter)--this time 500 miles from home--I'm almost afraid to take it to the track. That's the main reason I didn't come up to The Glen. The time before that, as you know, I had to be towed more than 100 miles from Pocono when the clutch went. Even before these two incidents, I had my service manager's number on speed dial.

I'm going to hold off track days until next month (Aug. 19-20-21) at Pocono. Three days on 5 different layouts will be a big test. And if it breaks down, at least AAA pays for the tow.

Steve

CTSVLS6
07-26-05, 10:31 PM
Thanks Rick, I'll check it this week. I just got back from the Glen Today. I did 2 sessions and had to leave early. I feel like I'm destroying my car:banghead: . I have honed my skills to the point that I'm actually bored with the V on the track:coolgleam . But, I now know the limits of the V, and that alone was worth the track days. I drive the V with alot more confidence. :cool:
The main reason is the Flag guy sent me to pit in. I did not know why? The car felt fine, but my brakes were fading fast:hmm: . The Hawk HPS suck on the track. The stock Brembos were better. even though they wear faster.
Well when I came down pit road they told me my front brakes looked like they were on fire:wtf: , and I should check them. I went to pit in and everything was fine. Probably just my rotors glowing. This never happened with the Brembo pads.
My brake fade was pretty bad. So I cut my track day early.
Guess what Rick?
The power of the car was awesome. No engine light problems. No cats to fry.
The good stuff, I left for the day with a grin. :thumbsup: I ran with a Carrera S, I even passed him once and on the straight I would pick up a little distance. Not much! Those cars are fast! Period!:want:
2 Worked C5 vettes with slicks, A turbo Porsche 911(new one), He was gaining a little distance on me with his buddy in a GT3, but not killing me, and in 30 minutes they did not lap me or come close to lapping me!
All in all, It felt great to run my sedan right there with true race cars, 2 seaters.
The Porshe guys were cool, and were shocked by the power and agility of the V to actually hang through the turns, as well as the straights.
Dynojet this week. Rick I'll keep you posted.


willsctsv, I was wondering if you have run your car on a Dynojet dyno yet and how the numbers compared to the Mustang dyno? Did you make 400?