: Classic Muscle car advice



WhiteLightning
07-12-05, 06:15 PM
If this is in the wrong area, please let me know...

All-

I'm not much of a poster... But, you'all are educated in the realm of automobiles.

If I wanna build, buy or have built a modernized Muscle car, how do I go about it? I'm thinking something like a 'cuda or my fave the Judge... I'm thinking more modern manual tranny and possibly motor. I'm thinking modern stereo, with a possibly updated interior. I'm NOT thinking numbers matching show car. I guess I'm thinking "Retro-cool".

A daily driver too.

Thank you in advance,

WL

(PS, pointers in the right direction would be great, web links, anything)

crowan
07-12-05, 06:39 PM
It sounds like you are looking for a resto-rod: classic body with modern brakes, drivetrain, creature comforts etc. I'm a big fan of those and there are definitely bargains to be had. My advice would be to buy one already done because they rarely sell for as much money as was sunk into them. Paying someone to build one for you can quickly empty your bank account. Take advantage of someone else's spending binge.

Go to the Barrett-Jackson web site http://www.barrett-jackson.com/, and Hemmings http://www.hemmings.com/ for starters. There are other sites if you do a search for Muscle Cars on the internet.

CR

sti convert
07-12-05, 07:21 PM
My advice would be to buy one already done because they rarely sell for as much money as was sunk into them. Paying someone to build one for you can quickly empty your bank account. Take advantage of someone else's spending binge.

Great advice, there are some builders doing sweet rides with C5 front and rear ends. Hell they can even make a 55 Shoebox handle well.

StealthV
07-12-05, 07:31 PM
Many of the $10k to 30k+ "ebay" muscle cars aren't worth bringing home as all the sins were hidden for the sake of making a buck. Example - a friend of mine bought a '69 Z28 on ebay for $20k. The pictures were awesome, the write-up made it sound like it just rolled off the assembly line - $5k paint job, etc. When he drove 1500 miles to pick it up, it was more like a $500 paint job and a complete POS.

And the kicker - it was a numbers matching 302 car that mysteriously had the VIN plate removed by the previous owner - sure - right. There are probably more numbers matching, code correct Z28 and other muscle cars running around today than were ever built all in the sake of $.

There's a company out there (YearOne?) building new '69 Camaros from the ground up with modern brakes, suspension, powertrain, etc. or go the kit car route such as a www.factoryfive.com

Better suggestion - just buy a mint, low mile C5 Z06 that was someone's garage queen for a hair over $30k - way better creature comfort, power, handling, etc. than any made over muscle car will be without spending a small fortune.

crowan
07-12-05, 08:08 PM
I forgot one interesting possibility if you are on the East Coast. Check out the schedule of cars shows at Carlisle, PA. They have great shows and you can find great cars for sale of every imaginable type. http://www.carsatcarlisle.com/

Carlisle is musclecar paradise.

keeksv
07-12-05, 08:14 PM
Would go the YearOne route if it were my choice. Really nice cars, but don't expect to get off cheap (NC or Georgia, I think--look at the rice-movie "Too Fast/Furious"--I think both of the "old" hotrods were from YearOne.

Second choice--I agree with Rick: C5Z06.

Most other things, might as well dig a hole out back and throw your cash in there.

EW

SilverBullet
07-12-05, 09:28 PM
this is my dream muscle car: http://www.uniqueperformance.com/GT350SR.aspx
too bad it is 100K$:disappoin

guess I will have to keep playing the Lotto.......

6104696
07-12-05, 09:36 PM
You are on an admirable quest.....and only you can decide what fits yoiur budget, your plans, and your skills. Soem fofod for thought, and I will try to be objective:

If you buy an old car that has been rebuilt by someone else with modern parts, and something breaks, who will service it? How handy are you? will you know that you will need parts for an '82 jaguar rearend that has been customized to fit in your '70 'cuda? Will your mechanic? Will you take the time to hunt down everything that you need?

If you rebuild it yourself you will know what you have, but do you have the skills, the equipment, and the time?

Kit cars are a little less hassle since you generally have most of the parts from a single type of donor car (factory five and others like the 87-93 mustang 5.0's for donor cars). But again, do you have the time?

I did this analysis about 10 years ago; I found a "nice" 65 mustang ragtop with a 289 and a 4-speed. Supposedly everything matched, and it was "ready for a ground-up restoration." After envisioning myself welding rusted shock towers and floor panels, replacing door hinges, and doing just about everything else that I didn't have the time to do, I passed on it and bought an '89 5.0. Nice performance, modern suspension, modern car. I never looked back; I still have the mustang, and when cars like the CTS-V come out it is a no brainer for me; absolute awesome performance, with all the modern safety features and a warranty! ( I have little kids so full seat belts, ABS, and air bags are important, as are 5 seats.)

Not quite the same amount of character as say a 69 camaro SS with a '427.....but I am over it......

Good luck and let us know what you end up getting

DILLIGAF
07-12-05, 10:15 PM
There was a GTO show in ST LOUIS a week and a half ago.I was at a service area on I-170 meeting another forum member and there were 3 judge GTO's sitting in the lot with us.I would go to one of these get togethers to get a feel for whats out there before you buy or build.Old GTO's are sweet just the way they are IMO

J.E.T.
07-12-05, 10:53 PM
I just don't think the dream is possible. Old cars are just that, old. Having come from the muscle car generation and owning many of them I can tell you that today's muscle cars are totally different. My son just bought a new GT mustang and had several things changed out. This car is the closest you'll ever get to a true old time muscle car feel, believe me, and the price ain't bad either..........


JET

Rickerbucks
07-12-05, 11:04 PM
Check this site

http://www.firewheelclassics.com/Camaroparts.ht

Deltasendero
07-13-05, 01:25 AM
[QUOTE=StealthV]Many of the $10k to 30k+ "ebay" muscle cars aren't worth bringing home as all the sins were hidden for the sake of making a buck. Example - a friend of mine bought a '69 Z28 on ebay for $20k. The pictures were awesome, the write-up made it sound like it just rolled off the assembly line - $5k paint job, etc. When he drove 1500 miles to pick it up, it was more like a $500 paint job and a complete POS.
QUOTE]

My friend bought a '78 T Bird off ebay with a "mint 400" motor for $4500 and had it trailered 1500 miles. He got it home and ran it the first night and blew the motor. The seller claims he over revved it. So another G later and it now has a new 400 in it and running fine. That poor sucker seller will be seeing Bill, soon...:want:

sti convert
07-13-05, 11:40 AM
As much time and money that Iíve dumped into my 82 RX7 V8 project, I could have had my V set up with all of the goodies. But none the less, I enjoy wrenching on the RX7, simple and easy to work on. And I know the history of the car; wife drove it off the show room floor in 82, clean one owner. Itís just the lack of time and money issues that I struggle with. Worse case, it can sit until the kids are grown.

Stangar
07-13-05, 12:40 PM
You are on an admirable quest.....and only you can decide what fits yoiur budget, your plans, and your skills. Soem fofod for thought, and I will try to be objective:

If you buy an old car that has been rebuilt by someone else with modern parts, and something breaks, who will service it? How handy are you? will you know that you will need parts for an '82 jaguar rearend that has been customized to fit in your '70 'cuda? Will your mechanic? Will you take the time to hunt down everything that you need?

If you rebuild it yourself you will know what you have, but do you have the skills, the equipment, and the time?

Kit cars are a little less hassle since you generally have most of the parts from a single type of donor car (factory five and others like the 87-93 mustang 5.0's for donor cars). But again, do you have the time?




I did this analysis about 10 years ago; I found a "nice" 65 mustang ragtop with a 289 and a 4-speed. Supposedly everything matched, and it was "ready for a ground-up restoration." After envisioning myself welding rusted shock towers and floor panels, replacing door hinges, and doing just about everything else that I didn't have the time to do, I passed on it and bought an '89 5.0. Nice performance, modern suspension, modern car. I never looked back; I still have the mustang, and when cars like the CTS-V come out it is a no brainer for me; absolute awesome performance, with all the modern safety features and a warranty! ( I have little kids so full seat belts, ABS, and air bags are important, as are 5 seats.)

Not quite the same amount of character as say a 69 camaro SS with a '427.....but I am over it......

Good luck and let us know what you end up getting

Truly a wise person. Read and heed this gentlemen's advice that will save you innumberable dollars and time. My .02 is to ALWAYS buy somone elses completed project. It's cheaper in the long run as you will never get the money out of a project you did yourself. However, you will learn a lot . . . . . .

Crozier
07-13-05, 12:45 PM
www.pro-touring.com

These boys know what they're doing.

I've always wanted a 68 Camaro RS/SS with a worked over LSx engine, a T56 trans, huge disc brakes, with mile-wide wheels and tires.... My dream....

WhiteLightning
07-15-05, 12:06 AM
Thanks everyone. (somehow I never saw the post and didn't read this thread until now)





So, to answer some questions:



crowan - Yup, seems like a resto-rod. But, I dunno where to find em. Your ideas were helpful. I can go buy a Hemmings (as they are always fun to look at). Carlisle is a good idea!



StealthV - I agree, gotta touch and feel it before I pay up. I want four seats. And, well, a two door as long as our cars would be fun (or longer)



Keeksv - I'm not entirely sure what the "YearOne" route is...



6104696 - How handy? Well, I don't have 24/7 access to garage and tools but I am quite handy, can weld (medium at best) and I do have an engineering background (mechanical). I don't mind some maintenance, but I do intend this to possibly be a daily. I certainly do NOT want or need any matching numbers.



J.E.T - Maybe. Maybe. But I think I want to keep looking to see if its possible.



Well, those are my thoughts. I'm not against kit cars. (there is a super7 in the family) That said, I don't see any I love. It's odd, but I'd prob put a fancy radio in it with NAV, not much "bling" (TVs etc.) but definitely NAV.



Again, thank you all for the leads.

globed70
07-15-05, 10:24 AM
I've got an idea for you... if your willing to go for a full-time convertible, go for a resto Cobra from Superformance. There is quite alot of flexibility on options, and they hold value reasonably well regardless of which options you choose. They'er gorgeous, fast as hell, and well regarded...

V-seriesTech
07-15-05, 10:40 AM
I'd do a 69 camaro, two seats only, thank you. 14 inch rotors, ls6 or 7 power plant,...forced induction ofcourse....coil-overs,.FIKSE's..etc etc...flat black.


WHat everyone said, has already been said, and great advice at that......not alot to add to it.

One thing, original is original, so , a numbers matching car, if it is infact that, should be left alone, as the value, may be worth more, obviously. YOu need to pick the marque you wanna goi with, ford, chevy, dodge, pontiac,chevy, chevy, or chevy. Then go from there. Not sure if you covered this but, you need to have a realistic price range, then add another ten, to 20 thousand on to that. Carisle,bloomington, year one events(resto company)...etc etc.

I think it would be more fun to build the car from scratch, as opposed to buying a car that is complete. Ofcourse, if it's some crazy deal, go for it. You can always start with a classic/ sports car trader,...and do some shopping...it may take a year to find a car, or more. Just start looking.... If you are really serious, my uncle deals/restores classic GM products, L89 vettes, impala's,...camaro's,..etc etc. He's friends with tons of collectors,...of all makes. If your looking for something specific,...shoot me a PM with the car your looking for, or a couple cars, and i'll forward the info. He deals with people all over the U.S., ...so finding YOUR car, "MAY" not be that hard.


Best wishes
Jamie

keeksv
07-15-05, 10:50 AM
Sorry for the confusion. These guys build cars, too...

http://www.yearone.com/

crowan
07-15-05, 11:14 AM
Having read all of the posts, having once shared your love for classic musclecars, and considering what one needs in a daily driver, I have these final thoughts:

Resto-rods are great fun cars for weekends and limited use. You might find them to be a bit harsh and hard to maintain as a daily driver, depending on what the drive train is and the quality of the body and chasis work. Great brakes, cold air, and a stout motor are great but if the body shakes, rattles, and flexes with every turn of the wheel, you will lose interest in the car pretty quickly. A quality resto job can eliminate many of those problems but being a daily driver puts alot of stress on a 40 year old car.

Both Stealth and 6104696 have made an important and valid point: We are in the midst of the 2nd great musclecar era and, frankly, things have never been better. When we can go to our car dealer and buy a V, a Mustang Cobra, an SRT-8, a GTO etc. with comfort, safety, and PERFORMANCE that blows away the cars of the 1960s, that is hard to beat.

When I see the deals to be had on barely-used Vs, I wish that I had grabbed one of those and added a heads/cam package rather than getting a new one. I would have a ground pounding machine that would be a great daily driver, with a warranty, at an unbeatable price.

I have restored a 68 GTO and turned a 69 Camaro into a 10 sec street car, but I have totally given up on any thought of buying another classic. The new musclecars are so good that, for me, it makes no sense. However, I understand the "fever." Good luck with your search.

Also, Year One is a leading vendor of restoration parts and they also build vehicles. Check their web site.

CR

V-seriesTech
07-15-05, 12:13 PM
Having read all of the posts, having once shared your love for classic musclecars, and considering what one needs in a daily driver, I have these final thoughts:

Resto-rods are great fun cars for weekends and limited use. You might find them to be a bit harsh and hard to maintain as a daily driver, depending on what the drive train is and the quality of the body and chasis work. Great brakes, cold air, and a stout motor are great but if the body shakes, rattles, and flexes with every turn of the wheel, you will lose interest in the car pretty quickly. A quality resto job can eliminate many of those problems but being a daily driver puts alot of stress on a 40 year old car.

Both Stealth and 6104696 have made an important and valid point: We are in the midst of the 2nd great musclecar era and, frankly, things have never been better. When we can go to our car dealer and buy a V, a Mustang Cobra, an SRT-8, a GTO etc. with comfort, safety, and PERFORMANCE that blows away the cars of the 1960s, that is hard to beat.

When I see the deals to be had on barely-used Vs, I wish that I had grabbed one of those and added a heads/cam package rather than getting a new one. I would have a ground pounding machine that would be a great daily driver, with a warranty, at an unbeatable price.

I have restored a 68 GTO and turned a 69 Camaro into a 10 sec street car, but I have totally given up on any thought of buying another classic. The new musclecars are so good that, for me, it makes no sense. However, I understand the "fever." Good luck with your search.

Also, Year One is a leading vendor of restoration parts and they also build vehicles. Check their web site.

CR


Good point,...I wanted to restore a camaro but, once I looked at the price to mod it the way I wanted,...and then what I could afford,.....I ended up buying a modern Corvette. :lildevil:

1gCtsV05
07-15-05, 12:18 PM
its all about the $$$$$....
you can buy a shell of anything you want for $100-$10k...
the spend the cash and have it shipped out to Cali to FOOSE Inc...
let him customize your ride. Best in the biz when it comes to classic retro conversions.FOOSE (http://www.chipfoose.com/)