This is written in reply to the post.... "why do people tell me that northstars are junk" I am posting this here too as I think it is a good insite on the car that everyone here loves and why cadillacs have a bit of bad air about them.

The Northstar is far from junk as with most cadillacs. The biggest problem with cadillacs from cradel to grave are simply the owners..... If you compare a cadillac to a car like a mercedes or BMW, you will find that the average german car owner is more of a car enthusiast than any cadillac owner. Being that, they tend to take better care of the cars. The average mercedes makes it to the dealer 3 times more than the average cadillac in 100,000 miles.

Cadillac people are very cheap as whole... One of the biggest surveys from cadillac is the fact that the owners dont want to have to spend a bunch on money on new tires... Thats your reson for having cheapo tires on cadillacs like STS that are completely capable of going 150MPH, but limited because cadillac people dont want expensive tires..... Also not having options like "AMG" or "M" that make the names for German cars, is a problem too. I think this is going to be resolved with the "V" series CTS with a 6 speed and LS6 (wow) and putting a base V-6 in cars that "aunt betty" would buy and leaving the incredible Nortstar as an option as it should have been like "AMG", etc.

Now the a big problem with cadillac is resale, and this goes back to its owners.... New cadillac buyers (aunt betty) tend to literally give their used cars away and are usually totally taken advantage of by the dealers,... Making a great deal for those that buy them second hand and really understand the car! but this also makes every other car worth far less in the used market than, in many cases, a stripped V-6 300,000 mile pickup. This makes the car 100% undesirable for those that have a bit of money and want a car for a "status" symbol. Some of us just love the cars, like myself and most forum members, but as a whole these give away deals tend to put older cadillacs in the hands of bargain shoppers that cannot take care of the car over time. These people are really buying a car way above thier means simply because its a dirt deal, and they usually are. People that should be buying a car like a Saturn, are buying a few year old cadillac instead and cannot afford to do anything else to the car. If it loses a hub cap,... It stays that way.... If the AC goes out, the windows come down... These people do not keep up with the car and its a testiment to cadillac to see that these type of cars are even running! Having these old cadillacs run around with fillers missing, dented all up and basically a running wreck, makes them a bit of a joke when you see them on the street like this, generating comments just like this topic.

I cannot tell you about all the snied comments I get from others, even car enthusiasts, simply because I like the cadillacs.. I have 17 cars and I get comments like... "Nice cars, but what the hell is that doing in here", pointing a finger at my perfect condition 1980 cadillac. Or, "Thats a complete waste of real estate as you could throw that barge away and put two real cars where it sits"... Or in the case of the STS..."nice second rate car"...

Other things that hurt cadillac are "inherited" cars. There are so many cadillacs that get inherited by younger family members who cant wait to get rid of the car, even though its the best car they have ever had. They would rather give "aunt bettys" old, low mile, mint cadillac away for dirt than to sell their 300,000 mile honda and keep the cadillac..... This also hurts resale as this is done all the time, and poor resale hurts the desirability and status of these cars.

Cadillac has got to change their market appeal and find something that holds a bit of resale or they will always look like a second class car no matter how good the car actually is.

This is cadillac in nutshell.....

This actually belongs in: General Cadillac Non-Model Specific Discussion
Forum for discussions regarding Cadillac in general.

I'll move it there now.

Interesting concept. :coolgleam

I think he nailed it.

I particularly liked this part:

...these give away deals tend to put older cadillacs in the hands of bargain shoppers that cannot take care of the car over time. These people are really buying a car way above thier means simply because its a dirt deal, and they usually are. People that should be buying a car like a Saturn, are buying a few year old cadillac instead and cannot afford to do anything else to the car. If it loses a hub cap,... It stays that way.... If the AC goes out, the windows come down...

Very tactful.

Bingo. All of us can do something to help though. Even though I paid < $30K for our STS, I ALWAYS keep it clean and perfectly maintained. If people start to see more "nice" caddys on the road it will help the image.

-Eli

Until ten years ago, I traded about every 18 months. I always had a "new-looking" car, whether I did anything about it or not.

Then I got hold of a great car that I didn't want to give up. So naturally I worked on it a couple times a month to keep it looking fresh. It really doesn't take much work to keep a car looking new.

Chances are, if you're visiting this forum, you already feel the same way, though.

Thanks... I really get a bit frustrated with this exact subject on many occasions talking to many other car enthusiasts, who are very knowledgable, but do not share my love for cadillacs and even question my taste for messing with the cars.

I have to agree that is just a factor of love as the time, effort and money would be better suited in a more desirable type car... Here are just a few examples of my frustration that I bring up in conversations here and there;

When you have a stripped small block (non rare) 69 camaro that has been raced, wrecked then restored twice to a very low #2 condition car without even the original motor, bring more money than a perfect 69 Fleetwood, fully loaded with ever option, very low miles in mint original showroom collectors condition,... There is a serious problem with the cadillac image.

When you can take a non-northstar Allante in mint condition, a near 60K+ car new, and compare it to a used up suburban of the same year with 10 times the miles and in poor condition, bring about the same money....
There is a serious problem with the cadillac image.

When you can buy a 93-95 STS, an incredible car! in about the 60,000 mile range for 4000-6000, as compared to the same price as a V6 pickup of the same years that was a 13,995 stripped special new, now in poor condition, and the STS was 50,000 new...
There is a serious problem with the cadillac image.


The list goes on and on......


Hopefully there will be a better image one day... I am doing my part as much as I can, but someone really needs to kick some since into cadillac at the decision making level...

"Hopefully there will be a better image one day... I am doing my part as much as I can, but someone really needs to kick some since into Cadillac at the decision making level..."

I apologize if y'all think I'm a one trick pony here but I would like to add my .02 worth. I, for one, did not have a low opinion of Cadillac when I purchased mine and perhaps that is why I am having such a hard time dealing with the way Cadillac is regarding my situation. I bought my STS because I felt guilty about buying a brand new Honda Accord in 2000.

The "buy the cars that are built by your neighbors" thing seemed to make sense. Yes, I know it's built in America, but, being a Canadian, Americans are my "neighbors" too in my book. At least the profits don't go offshore.

So I figured that if I was going to buy North American I would buy the best that they offered and to my way of thinking that was Cadillac. My 2000 STS is now rusting on all four doors in the same place and Cadillac accepts this and will not take responsibility (details on other threads and at http://www.geocities.com/myrusty2000cadillacsts/ )

I am now totally disillusioned and hope that others that still think the Cadillac name actually means something special will consider my situation and decide for themselves.

P.S. BTW I am investigating the possibility of a Class Action Suit regarding the vibration problem...if you are interested let me know. davesauve@hotmail.com

Sorry to hear about your problem and I hope you can get it resolved. I am by no means defending your cars problem, but from my experince with cars from your area, is that rust is just the nature of the area. I know cars should have some level of rust/corresion protection, but mother nature is the biggest female dog that lives.

A good friend lives in Winnipeg and he complains about rust all the time. He has a winter beater that is a rust bucket and never takes his nice cars out until that winter mess is cleaned up. His beater is a nissan pickup and it makes your cadillac look like it rolled off the showroom floor. Its so rusted that he takes a hammer to the frame to knock off some of the past years damage in flakes that he sweeps up into a bucket. You expose any car to those harsh conditions and I am certain they all will rust on any of the metal areas.

I am almost certian had you bought that honda, you would be experiencing the same issue in some level. A honda is metal and it is definatly will rust too. To win your argument with Cadillac, you would have to prove that cadillac of the same year, mileage, etc, driven in the exact same poor climate condtions rusted faster than a honda or other makes... From a logical point of view, this is going to be a tough road and possibly in vain..... I might feel different if I were in your shoes, but I simply never expose my nice cars to these condions and I even have a beater where I live.

I can agree with you complaining about rattles and minor issues like the fact a Northstar water pump never makes it past 70K, probably by design, but as a comparison anology, if I parked my STS in a walmart parking lot 5 days a week, I would probably have more dings and craters in it than a shot up country road sign, as the sides of these cars ar easy targets and once dented they look like hell...... I dont think cadillac would help me with the poor quality unprotected sides of my cars against wal-marts finest opening their doors on it with no regard. Its simply not the cars fault....

I think you are possibly just putting the car through extreme conditions in salted, slush and messy roads.. Possibly your efforsts would be better rewarded should you just fix/replace your doors on your STS and get it to where you like it again, then nvest 1500 or so in a good reliable winter beater.... You will appreciate your STS in nice weather!

Ran into a guy at the gas station with 99-00 Deville
He said that he has had a couple of caddys with the Northstar engin and ran sum into 400,000 km area and never had any problems
I have have about 10 GM car truck in the last 20 years
only a new Venture van was the shits
Had a truck with 300,000 km or rust and did not burn oil
A SAfferi van 275000 km no rust and was just startig to loss oil
but no rust
Either you geta good one or a shitty one it is the lusky of the draw