: Another Billy Boat Header FAILURE!!!



CVP33
07-10-05, 02:52 PM
Yep, it's true. I've been hearing a tick under the car now for sometime so I decided to get under the car and try some copper RTV as others have used. When I pulled the exhaust I was in shock. The CAT on the driver's side is totally detached and laying inside the housing sideways. I wonder if that my be causing a little back pressure? I checked the passenger side and a section about the size of a nickle in the middle is missing. It too is laying inside the housing. Of course what started this was the lousy gaskets that are supplied with the Billy Boat headers. Both of which of course had failed.

Here's my question - What do I do now? What are my choices?

Here's the caution - Billy has some issues with the supplied CATS, everyone needs to check theirs. If you have a sniffer test, you're in deep kimchee.

VERY DISAPPOINTED TO SAY THE LEAST. I EXPECT BETTER FROM BILLY BOAT.

DILLIGAF
07-10-05, 03:58 PM
Bummer,I was leaning toward the BB headers.I'm going to wait awhile before I buy now.

corneredbeast
07-10-05, 04:16 PM
Yeah, this sux. I was just about to buy into the group purchase, too.

CVP33
07-10-05, 04:41 PM
I'm a little calmer now. I believe as others that this may be caused by the failing header gasket allowing air to be ingested into the cat and leaning it out. My guess is that if we had a better gasket or used copper RTV from the get go we'd probably be ok.

2005V
07-10-05, 06:53 PM
Two words...

Stainless Works! Beautiful, perfect craftsmanship, mates perfectly w/ their exhaust. For those still considering their options, I can't endorse these products enough.

Just my $.02

Nick

urbanski
07-10-05, 06:55 PM
I'm a little calmer now. I believe as others that this may be caused by the failing header gasket allowing air to be ingested into the cat and leaning it out. My guess is that if we had a better gasket or used copper RTV from the get go we'd probably be ok.
you do plan to call Billy tomorrow, right?
whatever the cause, he needs to step up to the plate...or realize that us pissed off V owners also post at GTO/Corvette/and other LSx forums.

if a 20 cent gasket is killing a $500 cat, then there really is something wrong with such a fragile cat. If Billy has this setup on his V, he should have realized the problem by now. When I called Dennis about my dead gaskets, he didn't seem to care nor did he even offer to mail me new ones. :rolleyes:

wildwhl
07-10-05, 07:19 PM
Bummer...worrysome to say the least.

I, too, had the failed gaskets - but my cats are intact (running a fat tune to be safe with the Maggie could be why).

I am now running Percy's dead soft aluminum style (read - $10 SummitRacing version) 3 hole 3" header collector gaskets with a bead of copper rtv on each side. I have no leaks whatsoever. There is a little modification required to make them work (obviously, they're 3 hole) but it is simple. You line up the aluminum gasket (or copper - those might work too) with one of the 2 hole graphite gaskets and you'll see the simple process.

Just an idea for those of you with failures...

WW :spin: out

HDMLNIUM
07-10-05, 07:21 PM
Well that sucks, I think I will lift my car up and drop down the mid section to see how my cats look. I was planning on waiting until the x-pipe showed up but who knows how much longer that wait is going to be.. Time to get wrenching I guess..
Bill
http://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/th_front-1.jpghttp://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/th_engine-yeah.jpghttp://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/th_rear-1.jpg
05 CTS-V--- Light Platinum
3M Clear Bra and Tinted windows, LS6 Emblem, Stealth-V z06 fuel rail covers, Lasstss Billet interior pieces
Westers, B&B Headers-high flow cats-and 3" resonator exhaust, Lingenfelter CAI, UUC shifter, Full BMR
Online Photos http://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/

urbanski
07-10-05, 07:59 PM
Well that sucks, I think I will lift my car up and drop down the mid section to see how my cats look. I was planning on waiting until the x-pipe showed up but who knows how much longer that wait is going to be.. Time to get wrenching I guess..
Bill
i'm just waiting for Mr. X to show up.

You guys better call and raise hell!!

CVP33
07-10-05, 08:44 PM
Well now that all the bad news is out of the way. The RTV finally cured enough for me to take the V out. The exhaust leak is GONE! :thumbsup: Even better, the V is now even faster from 3,500 rpm's and up! :yup: I now know what Will was talking about with regard to this. The failed cat was definitely holding me back. I sure wish I would've caught this prior to going to the track. Wouldn't have helped my crap 60ft. times but would've definitely given me more top end.

I will be calling Billy Boat tomorrow, but honestly I don't want to take the headers off, ship back to him for another set and go through the install again. I try to always by the best parts from the most reputable companies so I only have to do it once. Plus I don't want cats at this point. I'll just gut the passenger side. I do think it's fair that BB pay for a re-tune so I can have the PCM programmed to delete the rear O2 sensors.

urbanski
07-10-05, 08:54 PM
get him to support the cats for those of us yet to have failures....and like you said, I'm NOT taking them off and shipping back, he's sending us new ones to slap on...any maybe get Billy to get us REAL gaskets, like Al or Copper 2-hole 3" jobs. Certainly he has "connections" to gasket companies.

Let us know how you gut your cats.

give em hell CVP :D

CVP33
07-10-05, 09:04 PM
As far as gutting the cats goes. The driver's side was virtually done for me. I simply had to pick away at it with pliers until I removed enough material for it to be pulled through the opening. The passenger side is missing about a nickel sized piece right out of the middle. I'm hoping the the rest of the cat self destructs so I don't have much to do. If not, a long screw driver that you hate (because you'll most likely ruin it) and a pair of pliers should take care of what's left.

I don't like the idea of running around with no cat's but the high rpm power is intoxicating. :drinker

urbanski
07-10-05, 09:16 PM
I don't like the idea of running around with no cat's but the high rpm power is intoxicating. :drinker
other than having to kill the rear O2 sensors (which Rick can do in a flash)...what's the disadvantages? (Tree hugging aside :D)

willsctsv
07-11-05, 12:23 AM
Ah! I am not alone!
Yes, I have blown out 2 cats. I called B&B, and sent it back thinking this was a freak occurence. Then it happened again. I was fed up and just gutted them this time. I get my new tune from Stealth on Tuesday.
The cat failures on mine caused the gaskets to leak and burn up in the exhaust. Since gutting the cats, and assembling the entire exhaust with only Copper RTV, No leaks!
Plus it is unresticted, so the exhaust can get right out, without any blockages to cause a gasket failure.
Sefa01 runs TPIS long tubes with random tech cats welded in, no problems so far and his car is very fast. He has them for about a year. Something for some to consider.
As for running this beast with no cats, headers, and an LPE. This car pulls revs hard and keeps pulling to redline with no dip in power. That you feel anyway!
Without cats it also sounds like a new beast, with a tune, a nearly 500HP beast!

Enjoy it, I will never put the cats back on!
.

ctsvinman
07-11-05, 01:47 AM
Diagnosis: The weak link seems to be the gasket and with the proper amount of RTV (gew), you can eliminate a leak before it will ever kill the CATS.

Disclaimer: This is my guess from reading this post



Here come the dumb :cookoo: questions....

When the CATS or a CAT fails, does it trip a code, is there a check engine or other light that comes on?

If you gut the CATS (did this a long time ago on a freinds old Buick GN back in the late 80's by using a screw driver, patience and knocking that crap out of there). If you do this, will the O2's still work? will a check engine light come on?

Just seems to good to be true to be able to get these headers (after a gasket fix PCN is in place by Billy), gut the CATS to get that extra.... as CVP put it... "intoxicating" high RMP power..... just seems too good that this is a worry free MOD.

Thoughts?

Hopefully just the people with headers installed answer these questions, w/o actual B&B headers on your V, you would be just guessing like me.


VinMan out........

thebigjimsho
07-11-05, 02:38 AM
Since sefa01 does so many track days, I decided to do the B&B X-pipe with TPiS headers as well.

LV_V
07-11-05, 04:30 AM
Do the TPIS headers have cats included?

Texan V
07-11-05, 05:33 AM
Man this bites the big one! :madtalkin

I haven't installed my headers yet and this has me really concerned. I really don't care to pay the extra dough just to have the outward appearance of running cats.

Billy, if your reading this, what can those of us who have not yet had the cat problem or not yet installed the headers do to help prevent this? Is using the copper RTV the OEM recommended fix or is there a replacement gasket in the works?

I had the supplied gaskets blow out between my x pipe and mufflers after only a few hundred miles and had to resort to the copper RTV as a fix.

All in all, it looks as if it is only 3 cats so far out of how many sold and installed??? That said, maybe it's just a small percentage affected, but I would be willing to bet on the faulty gaskets as a contributing factor as some of you have alluded. And if that's the case, it might just be a matter of time before more gaskets blow out and more cats go south.

I was planning to install my headers sometime next week, but it looks like I'll wait a while longer to see how this plays out. :confused:

heavymetals
07-11-05, 06:05 AM
:yeah:
I am waiting for the gaskets (Percy's where's my gaskets?) before I install mine to.
I don't even want to do this more then once!

CTSV05
07-11-05, 09:34 AM
This is a shame.

I know Chad has the TPIS headers and a B & B Exh, I'm not aware of any problems, he has the TPIS cats.

V-seriesTech
07-11-05, 09:46 AM
we've had one KNOWN failure. We simply made the other side,...less restrictive as well. :sneaky: We wouldn't have ever none, unless I was installing a shifter at the time.

willsctsv
07-11-05, 05:56 PM
There is no way the leaks in the exhaust came first, and caused the cat failure.
I fried 2. On the second one I was aware of this problem. So, I put the whole exhaust system up, new cats, new Copper Gasket RTV. No problem, no leaks.
Fried the cats a few weeks later at Pocono, and immediately had leaks. Once that cat material comes loose in ends up getting stuck in the resonators and the cones just before the mufflers. HUGE Power loss! Then becuase your still mashing the throttle, the exhaust can't get out fast enough, so you start to lose the gaskets at and out comes the leaks.
Run some Techron Chevron through a tank full of gas after you get rid of the cats. Some back pressure probably caused a little extra carbon build up in the combustion chamber, around the valves, and depending on overlap of the stock cam, probably a little carbon in the intake!
Nothing major though!

ssmith100
07-11-05, 07:24 PM
I totally agree with Will. I just don't see how an exhaust leak could cause CAT failure. I think "more than likely" that the CATS just aren't up to par. Sure wish Billy would chime in to give us his take on the situation.


Shane

CVP33
07-11-05, 07:57 PM
Just got off the phone with Dennis from BB. Same guy I talked to when I ordered my exhaust. Of course they want the headers back and I don't blame them. But anyone who read about my 7 hour ordeal installing them knows they aren't ever coming off again until I sell the car. I shared with Dennis that I don't mind running cat-free however I do feel it's fair that they pay for the re-tune. Dennis or Billy Boat is supposed to call tomorrow. They did ask if I ran race gas and if this was a track car. I explained that I don't run race gas or octane boost and my only track time occured this past Saturday making only 2 runs. I will keep everyone posted.

heavymetals
07-11-05, 08:21 PM
Mine are still in the box.

If they need to go back for rework I sure would like to do it BEFORE I PUT THEM ON!:banghead:

Dennis was nice enough to give me the "good guy" price, so I will wait to hear if the "CATS" are just defective.

Hey, SH*T happens.:helpless:

urbanski
07-11-05, 08:53 PM
they're members here, sure would be nice to see somebody reply

urbanski
07-11-05, 08:54 PM
Just got off the phone with Dennis from BB. Same guy I talked to when I ordered my exhaust. Of course they want the headers back and I don't blame them. But anyone who read about my 7 hour ordeal installing them knows they aren't ever coming off again until I sell the car. I shared with Dennis that I don't mind running cat-free however I do feel it's fair that they pay for the re-tune. Dennis or Billy Boat is supposed to call tomorrow. They did ask if I ran race gas and if this was a track car. I explained that I don't run race gas or octane boost and my only track time occured this past Saturday making only 2 runs. I will keep everyone posted.
yo CVP
make sure you find out what they're doing about your dead cats and everyone's dead gaskets!! They need to make us some copper ones.

ssmith100
07-11-05, 09:17 PM
Urb,

Don't no whether to be happy or sad. Sorry bro.

Shane

sefa01
07-11-05, 11:41 PM
Since sefa01 does so many track days, I decided to do the B&B X-pipe with TPiS headers as well.

Jim: Thanks for the vote of confidence. I've had a couple of problems at track days (fried clutch at Pocono, shift linkage at VIR), but the headers and B&B exhaust hled up great.

urbanski
07-12-05, 08:58 AM
Urb,

Don't no whether to be happy or sad. Sorry bro.

Shane
:)
bet you're happy you waited...the SW headers/RT cats sound pretty good now eh :D

mchm3
07-12-05, 05:15 PM
Do the TPIS headers have cats included?i had the tpis headers and let me tell you ai had a bad experience with them they rubbed on my steering shaft and when i called tpis to tell them they told me to unscrew my motor mounts and shify me engine a quarter fo an inch...........since then i got the b&b headers and exhaust and have had no problems at all

thebigjimsho
07-12-05, 05:26 PM
i had the tpis headers and let me tell you ai had a bad experience with them they rubbed on my steering shaft and when i called tpis to tell them they told me to unscrew my motor mounts and shify me engine a quarter fo an inch...........since then i got the b&b headers and exhaust and have had no problems at allNot a big deal if it's permanent and doesn't swallow cats.

CVP33
07-12-05, 06:46 PM
UH OH. No phone call at home or on cell. No messages either.

Signed,

Confused

urbanski
07-12-05, 07:00 PM
maybe he's busy making my x-pipe
which i've been waiting 3 weeks for :rolleyes:

CVP33
07-12-05, 08:55 PM
Just got the call. Billy is out of town until tomorrow. Expect an answer then.

CVP33
07-13-05, 08:54 PM
Day Two - No phone call = no answer. :helpless: Not good.

2004ctsv
07-13-05, 10:38 PM
I emailed for a quote but decided to bag the BB headers. I'm looking into coated Stainless Works with high flow cats to mate up to my Corsa. It should be a Labor Day weekend project.


Tony

CVP33
07-15-05, 05:57 PM
Talked to Dennis today. They are crediting my account a small amount to cover my postage to get my PCM reprogrammed. That's all I asked for as StealthV (Rick) has been very gracious throughout. His customers already know what I mean. I explained to Dennis again that my CATS didn't melt, they detached. He said that Billy will address this with their vendor. Also stated they are working on an improved metail gasket. More to come from them I'm sure. :thumbsup:

heavymetals
07-27-05, 04:51 AM
Is there any update on this?

I still have mine in the box.:banghead:

If they are gonna fail I would like to send them back now before I install.:annoyed:

trekster
07-27-05, 05:00 AM
wow
I'm going with the stainlessworks headers now. Are the headers weld-on or bolt on?

wildwhl
07-27-05, 05:13 AM
Well, I "thought" I had a cat failure - but dropped the exhaust today and the cats are fine. Not sure where my CEL is coming from...could be my hacked up tune (yes, I should leave well enough alone - but I can't resist). So, my cats are still in good shape with Maggie, etc. after about 2K miles? No track time yet...until Saturday :bouncy:

MSMITH
07-27-05, 02:58 PM
I guess this qualifies as a cat failure :disappoin

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11889&stc=1

heavymetals
07-27-05, 03:44 PM
I ordered my gaskets.

Hope you don't burn out a cat during the weekend.

FiveseveN
01-20-12, 12:07 AM
Hey guys would any of you want to sell any of those Billy boat headers? I would like to buy some used ones but they are hard to find. Feel free to reply if so dgrider87@hotmail.com

odthetruth
01-20-12, 07:35 AM
Hey guys would any of you want to sell any of those Billy boat headers? I would like to buy some used ones but they are hard to find. Feel free to reply if so dgrider87@hotmail.com

Hey FiveseveN... this thread was from '05, and the other one you posted in was from '07. There may be users in these threads that don't return now. Either way, try the V wanted section or check the classifieds.

thebigjimsho
01-28-12, 08:53 PM
Hey guys would any of you want to sell any of those Billy boat headers? I would like to buy some used ones but they are hard to find. Feel free to reply if so dgrider87@hotmail.comIf I ever part my '04 out, I'd have a set of headers with gutted cats...

AAIIIC
01-29-12, 12:21 AM
If I ever part my '04 out...
So that should be around the time hell freezes over, right? :p

thebigjimsho
01-29-12, 09:07 PM
Well, I want to sell it whole first. We'll see. It all sucks...