: New STS and STS-V



Freep
11-07-03, 12:13 AM
I just heard the STS-V in late '04 will be a twin-turbo Northstar!! :worship:

Isn't it odd also that GM's corvette, america's muscle car, in future versions will boast a new version of the Northstar in '05 or '06; and the new CTS-V will boast the Corvette 5.7L V8 ?

The Engine from the luxo division (Cadillac) is going to Corvette and the muscle engine from the 'vette is winding up in the luxo car. It's all good to me. :D

Chuck C
11-07-03, 10:51 AM
I thought GM was developing new Gen IV small block V8s for the forthcoming Corvettes called the LS2 and LS7?

JJhomer83
11-07-03, 10:56 AM
I just heard the STS-V in late '04 will be a twin-turbo Northstar!! :worship:

Isn't it odd also that GM's corvette, america's muscle car, in future versions will boast a new version of the Northstar in '05 or '06; and the new CTS-V will boast the Corvette 5.7L V8 ?

The Engine from the luxo division (Cadillac) is going to Corvette and the muscle engine from the 'vette is winding up in the luxo car. It's all good to me. :D

That is all good with me. I WANT THE ELDO BACK. A 2 door luxo car that is not 80k

Freep
11-07-03, 02:33 PM
That is all good with me. I WANT THE ELDO BACK. A 2 door luxo car that is not 80k

Yeah, I do like the latest model ETC, very nice and elegant.

Ultra Slow
11-07-03, 04:52 PM
Turbos! I dont think this is going to happen... What I did here is that the regular Deville, Seville will now have a 250HP V-6 in it.. This is what it needs anyway with the crowd it attracts.... The Northstar will be an option making thse cars a bit more desirable! Dont know the power on it. but can assure you there will be no turbos in the near future...

The CTS V series will be optioned with an LS6 6 speed (Zo6 engine), making it the fastest US sedan ever! This should be a pretty neat car and a radical move for cadillac even though its a truck engine in it...Finally got some guts!

The XLR, probably depending on sales, will possibly get a supercharged northstar if they dont end up dropping it do to poor sales, which I predict happening

If they do drop it, the Corvette will possibly get the supercharged northstar, the engine it should have had in 97, but all the surveys told GM that the corvette owner wanted their pushrod "tree-fitty"... A bit of the NASCAR crowd, thus the truck motor was put in the car limiting the cars appeal as a real supercar as the ZR1.

My opinion it that GM should the surveys as the germans do and build it right the fist time..... Seems to work quite well for them with cars like 580HP twin turbo charged V12 CL600 coupes....People are fighting over them.... Dont see this happening to any cadillac.



I just heard the STS-V in late '04 will be a twin-turbo Northstar!! :worship:

Isn't it odd also that GM's corvette, america's muscle car, in future versions will boast a new version of the Northstar in '05 or '06; and the new CTS-V will boast the Corvette 5.7L V8 ?

The Engine from the luxo division (Cadillac) is going to Corvette and the muscle engine from the 'vette is winding up in the luxo car. It's all good to me. :D

Freep
11-07-03, 07:46 PM
Turbos! I dont think this is going to happen... What I did here is that the regular Deville, Seville will now have a 250HP V-6 in it.. This is what it needs anyway with the crowd it attracts.... The Northstar will be an option making thse cars a bit more desirable! Dont know the power on it. but can assure you there will be no turbos in the near future...

The CTS V series will be optioned with an LS6 6 speed (Zo6 engine), making it the fastest US sedan ever! This should be a pretty neat car and a radical move for cadillac even though its a truck engine in it...Finally got some guts!

The XLR, probably depending on sales, will possibly get a supercharged northstar if they dont end up dropping it do to poor sales, which I predict happening

If they do drop it, the Corvette will possibly get the supercharged northstar, the engine it should have had in 97, but all the surveys told GM that the corvette owner wanted their pushrod "tree-fitty"... A bit of the NASCAR crowd, thus the truck motor was put in the car limiting the cars appeal as a real supercar as the ZR1.

My opinion it that GM should the surveys as the germans do and build it right the fist time..... Seems to work quite well for them with cars like 580HP twin turbo charged V12 CL600 coupes....People are fighting over them.... Dont see this happening to any cadillac.


They reported this on MotorTrend yesterday that the STS-V model will be a Twin-Turbo version...not sure if they mean TT Northstar or TT Small Block from Chevy. The standard STS will be the newer Northstar with 315 - 320 HP though, that is certain. This is the 2005 STS btw. Should come out mid 2004. It will have the 4.2L Northstar V8. I have been seeing speculations for the STS-V having a supercharger, but this was a first to hear they are now going with a Twin-Turbo powerplant. We will see I guess.

I agree wrt the Germans, got to love their ability to get so much out of normally aspirated engines. Looking forward to the V-10 M5.

ERJBP78
11-09-03, 10:35 AM
They reported this on MotorTrend yesterday that the STS-V model will be a Twin-Turbo version...not sure if they mean TT Northstar or TT Small Block from Chevy. The standard STS will be the newer Northstar with 315 - 320 HP though, that is certain. This is the 2005 STS btw. Should come out mid 2004. It will have the 4.2L Northstar V8. I have been seeing speculations for the STS-V having a supercharger, but this was a first to hear they are now going with a Twin-Turbo powerplant. We will see I guess.

I agree wrt the Germans, got to love their ability to get so much out of normally aspirated engines. Looking forward to the V-10 M5.

The CTS-V will indeed get the LS6 engine, as that information has already been released.

I doubt the C6 will be getting a supercharged or turbocharged Northstar, or a Northstar at all. That is what GM is developing the LS2/7 engines for.

How somebody could call any LS series engine a "truck" engine is beyond me. Just because it uses the same OHV design and 350 ci of displacement doesn't make it a truck engine. If anything, you should call the 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0 liter engines in GM's latest trucks car engines, because they are based on the LS1, which made its debut in a SPORTS car. The power delivery of an LS1 is NOTHING like ANY truck engine. If you drove a Corvette and didn't know how the engine was designed, you wouldn't even know that it was a pushrod 350. An editor from edmunds.com said this about the LS6 in the CTS-V: "I can certainly appreciate its effect as the overhead valve LS-6, in this guise at least, feels as sophisticated as some of the competition's double overhead cam designs."

The Z06 hangs damn well with other supercars regardless of its "truck" engine, doesn't it? Does the Viper have a 40 valve, variable valve timing V10? No. Does that make it any less of a supercar?

I would imagine the new STS will use the Northstar VVT with 315-320 horses. GM wouldn't spend the time and money to make a smaller displacement Northstar with less power than required in this class. BMW's 540 is now at 325, and Infiniti's M45 is at 340. Even if they could pump the same amount of power out of a 4.2, there's a good chance it would all be at a higher RPM with less low end grunt.

The 3.6 VVT could make its way to the STS as a base model, but not the Deville. Remember that the 3.6 has been used in RWD only applications thus far, and the Deville is still FWD. Besides that, a V6 wouldn't have enough power to pull around a big car like the Deville.

I don't think the XLR will get dropped due to poor sales, Cadillac learned their lesson with the Allante and really nailed it with the XLR.

Gm Guy
11-09-03, 11:05 AM
I just heard the STS-V in late '04 will be a twin-turbo Northstar!! :worship:

Isn't it odd also that GM's corvette, america's muscle car, in future versions will boast a new version of the Northstar in '05 or '06; and the new CTS-V will boast the Corvette 5.7L V8 ?

The Engine from the luxo division (Cadillac) is going to Corvette and the muscle engine from the 'vette is winding up in the luxo car. It's all good to me. :D

I dont know where you got your information, because most of it isn't accurate. The STS-V could very well get a turbo/superchared northstar. Most likely the later to appeal to our customers across the pond.

I know 150% that the corvette will not get a Northstar engine. The only thing that I know that they have thought about is the new V-12 engine that appeared in the Cein concept car. The Corvette will continue with it pushrod technology. The base version is the all new LS-2 6.0L V8. The Z06 version will get a LS-7 6.4L V8 with VVT, DOD, and 3 valves per cylinder. The LS2 at the moment is being tuned to put out about 430-460 HP, while the LS7 is going to be pushing above 550. There is even a more powerful engine in the works that Robert Lutz has mentioned.
The LS6 engine in the CTSV will not be in place to long(max of one more year). It will get one of the new corvette engines.

rueben44
11-09-03, 03:13 PM
THe XLR is sold out for the first year and is a low production car at around 7500 a year so why would Cadillac stop selling them due to poor sales. You can almost sell 7500 annually of anything but the XLR is not a hard sale. I doubt the Covette will sever see a Northstar engine because Chevy has said that the will keep the push rod setup. Cadillac will have a V-12 at there disposal and they may supercharge the Northstar or maybe turbo charge it for the STS-V it will be one of the two.

ERJBP78
11-09-03, 08:19 PM
I dont know where you got your information, because most of it isn't accurate. The STS-V could very well get a turbo/superchared northstar. Most likely the later to appeal to our customers across the pond.

I know 150% that the corvette will not get a Northstar engine. The only thing that I know that they have thought about is the new V-12 engine that appeared in the Cein concept car. The Corvette will continue with it pushrod technology. The base version is the all new LS-2 6.0L V8. The Z06 version will get a LS-7 6.4L V8 with VVT, DOD, and 3 valves per cylinder. The LS2 at the moment is being tuned to put out about 430-460 HP, while the LS7 is going to be pushing above 550. There is even a more powerful engine in the works that Robert Lutz has mentioned.
The LS6 engine in the CTSV will not be in place to long(max of one more year). It will get one of the new corvette engines.

Nice post, good info.

You sure about the LS2 going into the CTS-V? With a 450hp LS2, the CTS-V is up there with the 469hp E55 AMG and upcoming 500hp M5 which is where the STS-V is supposed to be. The 400hp LS6 is just about right offering comparable performance to the M3 and C32 AMG. Not only that, but the LS6 was chosen over the Northstar for the CTS-V because of its smaller size, and even then parts were relocated. How could they move up to an even bigger 6.0 liter engine?

Gm Guy
11-09-03, 11:46 PM
Nice post, good info.

You sure about the LS2 going into the CTS-V? With a 450hp LS2, the CTS-V is up there with the 469hp E55 AMG and upcoming 500hp M5 which is where the STS-V is supposed to be. The 400hp LS6 is just about right offering comparable performance to the M3 and C32 AMG. Not only that, but the LS6 was chosen over the Northstar for the CTS-V because of its smaller size, and even then parts were relocated. How could they move up to an even bigger 6.0 liter engine?

The LS2 is the LS1 replacement, the LS7 is the LS6 replacement. The LS2 design is basically a reworked LS6 engine with some minor changes in the block and head designs. Also new light-weight materials have been extensively employed throught the engine.

darrelld
12-28-03, 08:45 PM
Turbos! I dont think this is going to happen... What I did here is that the regular Deville, Seville will now have a 250HP V-6 in it.. This is what it needs anyway with the crowd it attracts.... The Northstar will be an option making thse cars a bit more desirable! Dont know the power on it. but can assure you there will be no turbos in the near future...

The CTS V series will be optioned with an LS6 6 speed (Zo6 engine), making it the fastest US sedan ever! This should be a pretty neat car and a radical move for cadillac even though its a truck engine in it...Finally got some guts!

The XLR, probably depending on sales, will possibly get a supercharged northstar if they dont end up dropping it do to poor sales, which I predict happening

If they do drop it, the Corvette will possibly get the supercharged northstar, the engine it should have had in 97, but all the surveys told GM that the corvette owner wanted their pushrod "tree-fitty"... A bit of the NASCAR crowd, thus the truck motor was put in the car limiting the cars appeal as a real supercar as the ZR1.

My opinion it that GM should the surveys as the germans do and build it right the fist time..... Seems to work quite well for them with cars like 580HP twin turbo charged V12 CL600 coupes....People are fighting over them.... Dont see this happening to any cadillac.

There are a number of M3 owners that will gladly dispute your assessment of the Germans getting it right the first time.

According to the website over 128 2002 M3 engines have failed and the owners had a difficult time getting warranty repairs from BMW.

http://yoy.com/auto/m3_failintro.shtml

Playdrv4me
12-28-03, 09:18 PM
My opinion it that GM should the surveys as the germans do and build it right the fist time..... Seems to work quite well for them with cars like 580HP twin turbo charged V12 CL600 coupes....People are fighting over them.... Dont see this happening to any cadillac.

Amen brother.

If Cadillac can push out some revolutionary stuff like this and KEEP THE FARGIN QUALITY TO WORLD CLASS STANDARDS... then I think they will be a contender to reckon with for the rest of the world. They have an opportunity here and they really need to throw caution to the wind and just cease it. I think Lutz is the last best hope of turning this whole operation around and in Cadillac he has the toys to do so.

gothicaleigh
12-28-03, 09:45 PM
<snip>My opinion it that GM should the surveys as the germans do and build it right the fist time..... Seems to work quite well for them with cars like 580HP twin turbo charged V12 CL600 coupes....People are fighting over them.... Dont see this happening to any cadillac.

Everyone else tore apart your other misinformation, so I'll take the last bit.

It took me 3 months to find a fully loaded CTS when they first came out in '02. I would have had to wait 6 to have one built because the orders were so long.

The XLR sold out.

Try to get a hold of a CTS-V. Dealers are only gauranteed the first one, and every one I've talked to has it reserved already.

rueben44
12-29-03, 03:20 AM
Gm has already said that the Corvette will continue with push rod technology. The northstar is expensive to make and heavier than the LS in the Corvette which it will not be going in. The STS and XLR have been rumored to get a supercharged or Turbocharge Northstar. It has been rumored back and forth that the upcoming V12 may end up in the XLR also.

Who knows but one thing is for sure the Corvette will not be getting the Northstar. I guess we will all know early next year what the real info will be.

Dubya
12-29-03, 11:03 PM
Ultra slow, why don't you think the STS v will get forced induction? the base will most likely get the 255hp v6, the sts will get the 320hp 4.6vvt (competing with the 540, now 545 i think) and the V series is like M to bmw, the STS-V will compete with the m5.

the 2005 M5 has a v10, if cadillac wants to compete with bmw and mercedes, they need serious power, hence all the rumors of a twin turbo northstar. the cts-v which is competting with the m3 has a 400hp v8, the stsV has to be faster (more expensive) most likely a supercharged v8 in the area of 450hp at a minimum, . maybe they'll decide to put in the 550hp Ls7 (and possible de-tune it a little to around 500).

corvette will never get a northstar. most people that buy corvette's are very old and are enthusiasts. they want pushrod power, not complicated dohc engines, corvette will always be about big american v8 power, they made that mistake once with the ZR1.

XLR won't get discontinued. think of what cars it competes with, it looks better and out-accelerates the mercedes sl600 convertable, sure mercedes has AMG, but cadillacs now got (getting) V series, probably see a FI 4.6vvt XLR-V. Im sure that all 7500 are already spoken for, its not going to be hard to sell that car, there not likely going to talk someone out of getting a seville for one, there taking mercedes would be customers away

Playdrv4me
12-30-03, 01:58 AM
it looks better...

what

Dubya
12-30-03, 04:00 AM
have you seen the xlr in person? personally, im loving the way cadillac is going. i used to hate the style of the new escalade and cts, especially the cts, now i love them both, guess you gotta like the style, check out a xlr at your local caddy dealer. sl600 is a nice car too, i just like the xlr more

Playdrv4me
12-30-03, 09:51 AM
I definitely love the Escalade, and actually I think the direction Caddy is going is very good for them too even though the STS in my opinion was one of the best designs to come out of GM in the last 10 years hands down, and thats BOTH of the last two iterations of it. I wasnt ever wild about the Eldo simply because I didnt like the roofline or Window arrangement. I still however prefer the classic lines of the SL series to any other roadster on the market, I dont think the BMW stuff even comes close. Also, im not a huge fan of just HOW SIMILAR all of the art and design cars are ending up. You could argue that MB has alot of similarity between their vehicles too, but it seems like in their case its just enough to keep the models staggered far enough apart. BMW suffers from the similarity problem as well (er...will once all the models end up getting "bangled"), perhaps moreso than cadillac.

BeelzeBob
12-30-03, 10:32 AM
I didn't like the new designs at first either, but they've all grown on me..

Isn't the STS the base Seville? And the STS-V the performance model? There's going to be two STS models? Or is there still going to be an SLS?

MARKVIII
12-30-03, 10:53 AM
being a long time luxo coupe owner (eldo and lincoln marks) does anyone here think that either Cadillac or Lincoln will ever again come out with a luxo coupe that wont be above 50k..right now if i had to buy a car there is nothing under 50k i am intersted in..i will just stay with my '01 etc until something close to it becomes available..i do however like the infinity fx45 even though that is a totally differant vehicle..

Brett
12-30-03, 11:02 AM
No SLS Sal. Just STS-6 with 3.6l and STS-8 with 4.6l. The only info currently on the STS-V is purely speculation. Whatever magazines or TV shows have to say, until something concrete comes out of GM, we have no proof there will ever be an STS-V. Motortrend reported months ago that the Escalade would be the next model to get the V treatment and still nothing has been announced on that.

gothicaleigh
12-30-03, 11:15 AM
There will be no SLS.
The STS will get the 320hp N*
The STS-V will get a TT N* or the N*V12 that GM has been sitting on.