: Is it just a matter of time with the rear end and mods?



WA 2 FST
07-07-05, 02:50 PM
I am fully aware that heavy cars + relatively high HP + IRS can/will have their issues if abused.

I've seen all the posts about you guys having problems with the rear diff/half-shafts in these cars. Is it just a matter of time before KA-BOOM? Or is it more of a driving-style type issue?

I have considered getting a CTS-V and putting on a Magnacharger from LPE. I have an LPE TT Z06 that runs great with no issues. I drag-raced for many years, but am honestly very easy on drivetrain parts (no powershifts, no clutch-drops, etc).

I would hope with 450+rwhp it would live. Do I have a chance?

Thx.

Gordy Petrovski
07-07-05, 03:49 PM
I think just like any thing if U abuse it bad things can happen,I was in your shoes about a month agoe. Ended up doing the blower(21stCMC)& LOVE the car. Good luck:thumbsup:

WA 2 FST
07-07-05, 04:16 PM
Hi Gordy,

I was asking John Page about installing a blower on a CTS-V and he told me about yours. They did my Stage 2 twin-turbo on my Z06, and I'm extremely pleased with it.

I agree about abuse. Like I said, my honest assessment of my driving style is that I'm easy on parts. My concern is if the driveline can take full throttle roll-ons.

Haven't bought the car yet, but I'm looking at available options.

BTW, what kind of power #s did you end up with? :)

Gordy Petrovski
07-07-05, 05:25 PM
I got 420rwhp(+100 temp)has a milde tune with stock pully.Couple of days agoe when the morn. temp. was in the 70's the car felt as if I had 30 more hp. As for the driveline takeing the HP#'s so far so good. If U ever want to meet up at the shop for a test ride let me know John has my #. :cheers:

GNSCOTT
07-07-05, 06:15 PM
If you drive the car the way you are supposed to drive it stock your rear does not have a chance. They advertised a 0-60 time, and you should be allowed to try to duplicate it w/out blowing the rear. You can drop the clutch on any stock Camaro, Vette, GTO, etc, etc, etc, and not break a rear, why should the V be any different?

Kels55
07-07-05, 07:04 PM
If you drive the car the way you are supposed to drive it stock your rear does not have a chance. They advertised a 0-60 time, and you should be allowed to try to duplicate it w/out blowing the rear. You can drop the clutch on any stock Camaro, Vette, GTO, etc, etc, etc, and not break a rear, why should the V be any different?

This is exactly the case.

If you drive your V like a 90 year old women who's eyes barely peek over the steering wheel, than your rearend will never have a problem. If you drive like the average person (not afraid to stomp on it if need be) or try to recreate the stated 0-60 under 5, 13.1 1/4 mile times, than you will surely have to replace the rear at somepoint.

seanr56
07-07-05, 07:13 PM
Does anyone know for sure if the rear end in the V is the same as the regular CTS?

kimcheejeegae
07-07-05, 07:21 PM
Does anyone know for sure if the rear end in the V is the same as the regular CTS?


here is a link to Getrag's website.. it just says CTS..

linky linky (http://www.en.getrag.de/181/181)

WA 2 FST
07-07-05, 11:16 PM
This is exactly the case.

If you drive your V like a 90 year old women who's eyes barely peek over the steering wheel, than your rearend will never have a problem. If you drive like the average person (not afraid to stomp on it if need be) or try to recreate the stated 0-60 under 5, 13.1 1/4 mile times, than you will surely have to replace the rear at somepoint.

Thanks for the honest input. I appreciate you guys not sugarcoating anything for this newbie. :)

I stomp the throttle often in all my vehicles. Full throttle roll-ons typically do not cause (or better said, "should not" cause) lots of problems. Powershifting on upshifts, high rpm downshifts where full throttle is immediately applied thereafter, clutch drops at high rpms from a standstill... are typically the most abusive manuevers. I don't do these in my street cars.

But if I have to worry about full throttle application _in gear_, and lightning quick (but lift throttle) upshifts, then that is not good.

The stock driveline in my 605rwhp Z06 is just fine, and I drive the car hard (but do not use the abusive techniques described above) at times. I realize the Z06 is 600+lbs lighter and the rear end is stronger (although it is far from bulletproof in stock form). But I would hope that a 4000lb CTS-V with ~450rwhp would be ok if it was driven _aggressively_, but not abused.

I don't know... maybe I'm just really easy on driveline parts. ??

But it looks like you guys are saying it would be a ticking time bomb. :( That may be enough to sway me away from purchasing the car.

Gordy Petrovski
07-08-05, 12:13 AM
WA2FST thats to bad becouse I think U will be missing out on a really great car. A blown Caddy is just to much fun.There are other cars out there that NEVER BRAKE I just cant think of one right now.:rolleyes:

DILLIGAF
07-08-05, 12:18 AM
Buy something else,We love kill stories.Beemers are ok,how bout a nice ricer.See you on the road.BTW 20,000 miles maggie no diff issues.Your loss

WA 2 FST
07-08-05, 01:20 AM
Buy something else,We love kill stories.Beemers are ok,how bout a nice ricer.See you on the road.BTW 20,000 miles maggie no diff issues.Your loss

Dude you need to relax. Kill stories? Uh, not with what I drive currently unless you can beat a twin-turbo Z06 or a low, mid-12 second _truck_ (you should be able to beat this one...I would be disappointed if a Maggie'd V didn't run 12-flats on radials, but then I can cut 1.8 60's in that 4600lb brick of mine without having to worry about busting a diff or anything else).

I asked for honest opinions and I've gotten several, and I appreciate your input as well as the others. Gordy's car and yours haven't had any issues, and that's great.

All I said after reading some of the comments were that it "may sway" my thoughts about buying one. Frankly, a stock CTS-V would be the slowest car I would have owned in 10 years. So I wouldn't buy one with the intention of keeping it stock...thus, the reason for the post in the first place.

When you have a "sticky" thread on the board that is 11 pages long discussing all the issues with the stock rear diff/half-shafts on this car, I figured it was prudent to ask a few questions and do some research.

I'll pass on the "ricer", but thanks for the suggestion.:halo: The bottom line is that I am on a fact-finding mission that's all. If I didn't think the V was a great car, I wouldn't be looking deeper into what its strengths and weaknesses are (as Gordy astutely pointed out... every vehicle has them).

20k miles with the blower on and no issues ... that's an excellent track record. Have you done any mods to help with the wheelhop problem, or do you not have any wheelhop issues with yours?

akm2k5
07-08-05, 02:23 AM
Oh my God, how do they stop?

There are other cars out there that NEVER BRAKE I just cant think of one right now.:rolleyes:

Parker
07-08-05, 09:17 AM
A bit of power over here and still no driveline issues.

WA 2 FST
07-08-05, 10:43 AM
Thanks for the input Parker. Your car looks awesome, BTW. Love the wheel/tire combo! :)

Dreamin
07-08-05, 02:38 PM
WES BUDDY!! :welcome: How goes it? Long time. Are you following me around?? ;) I got a Lightning, you got a Lightning... I got a Z06, you got a Z06... I got a CTS-V, you...

Get a V... YOU'LL LOVE IT.

I'll email you.

-Dreamin

P.S. Do you still have your mustang... man what a SWEET car!

WA 2 FST
07-08-05, 04:35 PM
wait a minute... ;) I had a '99 Lightning I bought new in 8/99... I was first on that one!

No Mustangs anymore. Once my kids started getting older (elementary age), I just wasn't racing as much. They can last out at the strip for an hour+ in the TX heat, but not much longer than that. Priorities shift, that's all. The '90 hot-rod car was still streetable, but I now have the same power from the Z06 which obviously is a far superior car and puts the power to the ground much better than an old Fox-Mustang. The biggest advantage to it was that I could rip the motor apart myself in an afternoon.

Glad to hear you enjoy your V. If I get one, it will get a Maggie very shortly thereafter.

Thanks for the welcome!

www.wa2fst.com (http://www.wa2fst.com)

seanr56
07-08-05, 04:47 PM
The Getrag rear axle for the CTS is rated for a maximum of 420 lbs/ft of torque to that must include the V.
> Rear Axles <


Typ 625

Type Engine torque*
in Nm Ratio Weight**
in kg Applications

625 to 550 2,73 30,5 Chevrolet Corvette
640 to 310 3,45 23,0 Chrysler Voyager
645 to 420 2,73 - 3,91 27,5 Cadillac CTS


* Reference value (depends on type of vehicle, vehicle data and conditions of use)
** without oil

Florian
07-08-05, 04:57 PM
dont think so, the V has posi, the regular CTS doesnt. The ratios indicate its standard CTS.

F

GNSCOTT
07-08-05, 07:23 PM
Buy something else,We love kill stories.Beemers are ok,how bout a nice ricer.See you on the road.BTW 20,000 miles maggie no diff issues.Your loss

So the V is supposed to run a 13.1 @ 109, what did you run with a blower? If you did not pick up a full second, IMHO its a waste of money. Kinda like a 1200hp Supra.


WA2FST thats to bad becouse I think U will be missing out on a really great car. A blown Caddy is just to much fun.There are other cars out there that NEVER BRAKE I just cant think of one right now.:rolleyes:

The V is a great car, but it is a waste to Modify. I just can't see how you can defend a glass rear and tons of Wheel hop when a guy wants to get into the 11's with it and your answer is a sarcastic "NEVER BRAKE" . Its ok that the V's rear sucks because all cars break down sometimes. (too lazy to look for the roll eyes).

TO PUT IT SIMPLY, The car is great for road racing. If you want to put a maggie on it and want to drag race it, you just wasted a bundle of money and your warranty, unless you fab a new MUCH stronger rear for it. Even just daily driving with a maggie you are going to get a little rough on the rear and could easily snap it.

Remember, this is not fact, just My honest opinion using past experiences.

seanr56
07-08-05, 07:27 PM
dont think so, the V has posi, the regular CTS doesnt. The ratios indicate its standard CTS.

F

Oops, my bad. The posi is one thing but I always forget to consider diff ratios.

wildwhl
07-08-05, 07:57 PM
GNSCOTT -

I hear your comments about the "waste of money" that a blower is on the V...but disagree. My rearend is taking plenty of abuse fine (yes, I've had three, but none of them blew up). CLARIFICATION - Since the Maggie went on 5,000 miles ago this is the same diff - about 5,700 miles on this diff so far - no noise, no whining, no problems.

The track times are great if you can get them. However, the beauty of the Maggie at least, is EVERY TIME you drive the car you experience the awesome, smooth, predictable power delivery of the huffer...it is truly an awesome ride with and without the Maggie - but I would never, ever go back to N/A with anything less than about 427 CI to start with :)

Low 12's are likely possible with a good driver in a Maggie equipped car - but not with me at the helm. Every other encounter with the V since I added the Maggie (twisties, road rage (not), etc.) has been truly awesome.

Sorry...I've threadjacked here.

Personally, after first hand experience, I no longer feel that the diff is all that weak in this car. Hopefully I'm right.

Don't let that be the deciding factor for you, WA 2 FST.

WA 2 FST
07-08-05, 08:44 PM
WILDWHL... you're not hijacking the thread.

I am a _huge_ fan of forced induction on street-driven vehicles that must pass emissions and where the owner wants to maintain perfect street manners and good gas mileage. This is my experience of hot-rodding late model EFI stuff for 14 years.

You're right... with a properly set up application, it is a ton of fun every time you blip the loud pedal. I don't plan to spend a lot (or maybe any) time with the car at the strip. I know that's not what is was designed for. But I also don't want to have to worry every time I nail the throttle after selecting the next gear. I would _think_ that roll-ons would not be a problem b/c typically the hard part (gaining traction) has already been done. Slip-sliding the clutch and battling wheelhop from a standstill can be a tricky proposition for most people, and that's where a lot of damage/breakage would seem likely to occur.

But that's why I posed the question and created the thread. I have no _personal_, firsthand experience with this car. What should be true in theory based on my own experience with other vehicles (most having been live-axle, to be honest) may not hold true here.

I appreciate your input, and GNSCOTT's as well.

GNSCOTT
07-08-05, 09:12 PM
WA, you nailed it on the head. I will not take my stock V back to the track after my rear let go. I have no problem power shifting out of first and through the gears, but it is the launch that has me worried EVERY time. Its just not fun going to the track and have to worry that much about breaking. The only thing you should be worried about when dumping the clutch on stock radial tires is tire spin.

Wild, I hope I didn't offend, i was just giving my opinion. I really wanted to Maggie my car and it upset me when I thought about it and because of the rear I just couldn't bring myself to order it. I know how to launch a car correctly, and if you have ever been in a fast car on slicks at the track (I had an 1100HP 4.1L V-6 Buick GN) The launch is everything at the track. It is the kick ass G-force that I crave at the launch, kinda like when your maggie kicks in when you peg it from a roll times 10, and it is what determines if you will have a good run. I got my car to hook by lowering the rear tires down to like 19psi, and putting 30lbs of air in the air bags in the rear springs, and I popped the clutch at like 4k rpm's, no hop, the rear just popped and I rolled about 10 feet. I do not feel its the hop that does all the damage and I have a feeling if you ever get your car to hook, even for a split second, your rear will be FUBAR'd

benjet
07-08-05, 09:14 PM
dont think so, the V has posi, the regular CTS doesnt. The ratios indicate its standard CTS.

F

Apparently that isn't entirely true, it was an option on the regular CTS..hmmm...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4223

LV_V
07-08-05, 09:30 PM
seanr56, 50+ posts already. We have a new official forum post whore. Good job and welcome to the forum :welcome:

lasstss
07-08-05, 09:47 PM
I just got my maggie kit, I examined it closely. Very well laid out and thought out. Very good instructions. Pretty innovative the way they packed that little cooling core into the intake manifold. Hopefully it never leaks as it would be a great intake water pump. I still cant believe the tiny bolts that are used to hold the intake down.:suspect:
The painted version is no where near as pretty as the polish but was a lot cheaper. After the install, and proving it out I will try a little plumbing clean up. Its a busy peice..New rear goes in next week, then the air pump:D.

wildwhl
07-08-05, 10:35 PM
lasstss -

you're correct - there is a lot of plumbing that can be cleaned up. Denniscars has some cool ways to route the cooling hoses, and I still haven't had any issues with the T of the brake booster and PCV line on the driver's side. Might be trying some braided line I have laying around if I ever get around to it - just to pretty things up a bit :yup:

seanr56
07-08-05, 10:38 PM
seanr56, 50+ posts already. We have a new official forum post whore. Good job and welcome to the forum :welcome:

:lies:

Don't call me a whore. :tisk:

Okay fine, I'm a whore. :banana:

Dreamin
07-08-05, 10:42 PM
Apparently that isn't entirely true, it was an option on the regular CTS..hmmm...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4223 Ben, what the heck did you link to? The CTS does have an LSD option (G80).

Wise man once said "Repeat after me... the CTS-V does NOT use the CTS diff".

The part numbers are different. And that website says "CTS" not "CTS-V". That page is not a complete list of all GM vehicles that use getrag Diff's. At the very least they need to show 2 models for the CTS... the LSD and non-LSD versions... they dont even list that. They simply didn't list the CTS-V model #... maybe the page was put up before the CTS-V existed?

With all the R&D dollars put into changing the CTS to a CTS-V... no way would GM spec and use a diff rated at 308 ft-lbs. And the CTS-VR races around on the CTS diff?! :banghead:

Wish this urban legend would die already...

wildwhl
07-08-05, 10:46 PM
Alright. Here are some facts.

F1's at 24 lbs.

Maggie at full force, iced intake, etc.

Tach at 5K RPM's and 1st gear pop the clutch - repeatedly - long, long burnouts. Grab second and hook hard a couple of times. All is well.

The diff can take more power than the one Ben listed - I'm sure of it :D

benjet
07-08-05, 10:50 PM
Ben, what the heck did you link to? The CTS does have an LSD option (G80).

Wise man once said "Repeat after me... the CTS-V does NOT use the CTS diff".

Wish this urban legend would die already...

I know I just don't want ppl to think the LSD is the only difference, I agree completely diff diff ;)

-Ben