: 2003 Head Gasket Repair



sts 03
02-03-14, 12:12 PM
I have a slow coolant leak that I'm still trying to find but I think it may be the crossover manifold gasket.I have no puddles under the car and really can't find coolant dripping.I do see dried dexcool specs everywhere and it looks like there is a lot of dried dexcool on the bottom crossover gasket closest to the water pump but its hard to see in there.I need to pressure test first to see for sure.I know the 2000+ engines are know for leaking at the crossover gaskets.my main question for now is it even worth trying to use the bars leak or is that just a temporary fix if it even stops the leak?

98eldo32v
02-03-14, 01:19 PM
Please don't add the stop leak additives to your coolant system.

They can possibly end up in the wrong places creating a blockage. EX. heater core, purge line, radiator.......

Ranger
02-03-14, 02:42 PM
As much as I don't like that stuff, Bars might work in this situation. I would only even consider it because of the difficulty of replacing crossover gaskets, but if you do, DO NOT go crazy. More is not better. 3-4 tabs at the most.

sts 03
02-03-14, 04:52 PM
I actually have some of the bars leak powder form, but I'm really debating if I should use it or just break down and fix it right.is it mostly time ,is fixing the gaskets mostly time consuming or is it just a pita in general?

Submariner409
02-03-14, 05:05 PM
Replacing the crossover gaskets in our engines is a minimum 8-hour DIY job with a strong back and an advanced set of shop tools.

Cadillac shop labor alone is 4.3 hours and that's with any special tools needed.

It can be done in a heated garage, but it's no fun at all.

sts 03
02-03-14, 05:45 PM
What sort of special tools does one need?I read somewhere about having a flex head ratcheting 10mm and 13 mm wrench , and some swivels extensions .

MoistCabbage
02-03-14, 06:06 PM
Yeah, the 13MM being the most important.

sts 03
02-03-14, 06:21 PM
Nothing else special besides that?

Ranger
02-03-14, 08:13 PM
Patience.

vincentm
02-03-14, 08:51 PM
And lots of cursewords, lots

sts 03
02-03-14, 09:24 PM
Yeah I've been reading about the pain it is.maybe I'll try a little bars leak , if I was to use the powder form how much?

Ranger
02-03-14, 09:27 PM
Follow the instructions. One tube I think and DO NOT put it in the surge tank. It has to go in one of the radiator hoses. The upper is the least messy unless you are draining the system.

sts 03
02-04-14, 06:30 AM
It says to use the whole tube,I think its 25 grams.

MoistCabbage
02-04-14, 07:38 AM
The reason the crossover gaskets leak is that the plastic forms that hold the shape of the seals, and fills the small gap between the crossover and block/heads, begins to crack. Once it fails, coolant pressure will have no problem pushing the seals out of the way. Leak stop has no chance of stopping that, and it will leave you on the side of the road.

sts 03
02-04-14, 12:36 PM
On the 2003 is the throttle body part of the crossover or does it separate from it?

Submariner409
02-04-14, 12:40 PM
The TB is held on by the 3 LONG bolts that go through to the captive nuts on the plenum. Look hard.

Ranger
02-04-14, 02:14 PM
On the 2003 is the throttle body part of the crossover or does it separate from it?They are all separate.

sts 03
02-04-14, 02:17 PM
Yea I remember the three bolts when I changed my plenum last year just couldn't remember if the tb separated from crossover , its hard to tell with all the dexcool drying up everywhere.what's the best way to clean all the dried dexcool up when I take everything apart and can the throttle cables be left connected to the tb or do the throttle cables have to come off tb when changing crossover gaskets?

Ranger
02-04-14, 02:25 PM
You should be able to set the TB aside with the cables still attached.

MoistCabbage
02-04-14, 02:26 PM
You'll want the TB out and out of the way. The cables are easy to remove.

I'd just use carb cleaner to clean everything up while it's apart. Dried DEX would come off with water too though.

sts 03
02-04-14, 04:09 PM
Ok thanks, anything else that should be changed as a preventive when everything is out like water pump gaskets, hoses,etc....

LloydCFerguson
02-04-14, 11:28 PM
I had a similar leak in my 2002 STS recently and found that it was waterpump cover. When pressurized the system, I could see coolant dripping under the car, it was difficult to tell where it was coming from but when I put a paper towel under the cover, it got soaked and the dripping stopped. GM sells the whole new style assembly (cover, gasket, thermostat housing and new thermostat), I think was around $100. It took a couple of hours to install, there is another pipe on the engine that you have to remove to get to it, you need to replace a gasket on that as well. If you nee any additional info let me know.

sts 03
02-11-14, 01:03 PM
I've been getting that water gurgling sound coming from the dash I'm guessing it's air getting into the heater core, can the leak from the crossover gasket cause that?

MoistCabbage
02-11-14, 01:06 PM
Any leak means air is getting into the sytstem. If coolant leaks out, air has to take it's place.

sts 03
02-12-14, 12:18 PM
I'm about to start getting everything I need ,10&13 mm flex wrench, do I need a tool to disconnect the fuel lines? What about changing the water pump gasket and seal , is that something that should be done as a preventive? Anything else I'm missing except time?

MoistCabbage
02-12-14, 01:08 PM
Yes? You'll need a fuel line disconnect tool. Any parts store, cheap.

The water pump/cover is nice and easy to get to with the crossover out, and gaskets are cheap. Personally, I would. Replacing the pump seal/O ring means you'll have to remove the pump, so you 'll need the pulp removal tool. I would suggest either replacing just the cover seal, or go all out and replace the pump as well.

sts 03
02-12-14, 01:22 PM
Ok thanks, and those are flex head ratcheting wrenches not flex head ratcheting sockets right?

MoistCabbage
02-12-14, 01:50 PM
Correct.

sts 03
02-12-14, 03:19 PM
Are fel pro gaskets fine to use or should I be using AC Delco? There is also a kit sold on rockauto that has all of the gaskets plus the ones for the throttle body , I've never heard of the brand I'll have to look it up again.

MoistCabbage
02-12-14, 03:31 PM
Is it Victor Reinz?

Fel Pro is fine.

sts 03
02-12-14, 03:39 PM
Yea victor reinz are those good?

MoistCabbage
02-12-14, 03:43 PM
They are.

sts 03
02-12-14, 04:03 PM
As far for the crossover gaskets , would you prefer any over the other?

MoistCabbage
02-12-14, 04:07 PM
I ordered all my gaskets from Chris. I'm actually not sure anyone makes aftermarket crossover gaskets.

sts 03
02-12-14, 04:21 PM
That victor reinz kit comes with the crossover gaskets,aap has fel pro crossover gaskets they are labeled under water pump gaskets.out of those three brands AC Delco,fel pro or victor reinz are any better than the other? Also do you remember what size the quick disconnect tool for the fuel line is?

sts 03
02-15-14, 09:36 AM
MC,I was reading your thread on your crossover job, what green silicone hoses were y'all talking about being changed?

MoistCabbage
02-15-14, 09:55 AM
I used permatex high temp thread sealant.

Not sure what size disconnect you'll need, but cheap ones are usually sold in a kit anyway.

I used A/C Delco gaskets. Victor Reinz is a name brand as well. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

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The silicone hoses are for pre '00 cars.

sts 03
02-15-14, 11:10 AM
Ok, thanks on your crossover thread someone said the fuel disconnect tool was 3/8 .

sts 03
02-16-14, 04:26 PM
I got a coolant pressure tester today to test the system .first the radiator cap won't hold past 16 psi , once I pump the pressure past 16 psi I could here the pressure hiss, so basically the cap only holds 16 psi.so I assume I need a new cap.also when I pump the system to 18 psi I couldn't find any leaks and it held the pressure for 5 minutes or more till u relieved it.I can't find a leak but I have seen coolant on the top crossover gasket before (not a lot ) and there is dried dex cool around the crossover gasket close to the water pump.idk maybe it leaks worse in really cold weather which we had a lot of the past month.

MoistCabbage
02-16-14, 04:54 PM
Some of these cars do have 16 PSI caps.

You could go up to 20 PSI for the test if you wanted to. If it's just seeping, you may not hear any hissing during the test. You leave it pressurized for 30 minutes or so and then check it. If the pressure dropped, you look for the wet spots.

sts 03
02-16-14, 06:00 PM
Yea my cap says 18 psi but won't hold past 16 psi, should I get a new one or will it not make a difference? I actually pumped it up to 19.5 psi and left it on there for five minutes or so and it never dropped,I would if let it sit longer but I was already out side for a while and I didn't want to leave it while I was inside being that I live in an apartment.if a gasket is starting to go bad would it leak worse in really cold weather?

MoistCabbage
02-16-14, 06:06 PM
The 2 PSI won't make a difference as far as the leak goes, but the cap is faulty and should be replaced.

Ambient temps don't make any difference once the car's running, the gaskets/seals are touching 200+ degree metal and coolant. While the engine is cold, theoretically bad seals should leak worse, since everything is contracted.

sts 03
02-16-14, 06:59 PM
Yea I read somewhere when the crossover gaskets first start leaking its usually after the car is shut off and cooled Down , and we have a had a lot of really cold weather this winter (-0 a few times ) this has been the coldest winter in twenty years here. I have seen a little dex cool on the top of the crossover gasket after the car has cooled off, its leaking more underneath where I can't see.I'm going to have to wait till it warms up before I attempt to fix it.are Stant radiator caps good to use?

MoistCabbage
02-16-14, 07:05 PM
Stants are just fine.

sts 03
02-16-14, 07:46 PM
ok,weather should be good here this weekend so hopefully ill change the gaskets then,one more thing does the egr inlet pipe need to be replaced when doing the crossover,i read that it has a crush seal and the whole inlet pipe has to be replaced if removed.

Submariner409
02-16-14, 08:39 PM
My 2002 STS has the original GM 18 psi surge tank cap.

Ranger
02-16-14, 08:44 PM
Remember, the cap pressure is only the max. That's the pressure that the cap will vent at. I doubt a properly operating system ever gets that high.

As MC said , the difference between a 16 psi cap and an 18 is 4 degrees (with a 50/50 mix).

MoistCabbage
02-16-14, 08:48 PM
As MC said , the difference between a 16 psi cap and an 18 is 4 degrees (with a 50/50 mix).I said that?

Submariner409
02-16-14, 09:10 PM
Interpolate this graphic (courtesy of Ranger).

Ranger
02-16-14, 09:18 PM
I said that?
Post #42

MoistCabbage
02-16-14, 09:26 PM
Oh that. I said the pressure difference didn't matter, but made no deference to temp.

sts 03
02-16-14, 10:08 PM
So basically I don't need to replace the cap?

MoistCabbage
02-16-14, 11:37 PM
Well if it's not holding its rated pressure, you do. It's faulty, at some point it likely won't hold 16 either

sts 03
02-17-14, 02:06 AM
Oh ok will do.

sts 03
02-17-14, 04:35 PM
Now my heat only works on 85 and above, if I put on 84 and lower it blows out cool.any ideas?

sts 03
02-17-14, 08:11 PM
Now my heat will only work on the max setting 90, the only things I've done in the past two days are: pressure test the cooling system and I changed the purge line today.would any of these things cause this? Man it was nice not having problems for a while now they are all coming at the same time.

Ranger
02-17-14, 08:26 PM
Why did you change the purge line?

No HVAC actuator codes?

sts 03
02-17-14, 10:17 PM
I haven't check the codes yet.the purge line was starting to get really worn where the clamp was (maybe it was on to tight)on the purge nipple, so I just changed it as a precaution.I'll check and see if I have any codes, but yeah heat works prefect only on max 90.

Submariner409
02-17-14, 10:28 PM
Have you pulled the little grille out of the dash - to the left of the steering column - and blown out the tunnel with canned computer air ?

That grille covers the thermistor and fan in the aspirator - the cabin air temperature sensor that controls heat and blend door operation. No/little airflow there and the temp control is either non-existent or sluggish. If the aspirator is working properly you should barely hear a faint whirrrrr in there - the fan is a miniature 12V muffin fan - computer board fan.

Module replacement/fan hub oiling tips in Cadillac Tech Tips.

sts 03
02-17-14, 11:53 PM
I'll give that a try sub, also when its cold I can hear the motor humming .I read for the humming the actuator has to come out and re grease the bearing.

MoistCabbage
02-18-14, 12:00 AM
It's not an actuator, just a PC fan with a duct. A long extension and 1 bolt. Not a hard job.

sts 03
02-18-14, 10:59 AM
Oh ok I meant aspirator lol , once out I have to grease the bearing right?

Ranger
02-18-14, 11:04 AM
Technically it is not an aspirator. Those are no longer used. As mentioned, you have a small fan that pulls air in over the cabin temperature sensor. There is no "bearing", just a bushing and you'll probably have no luck "greasing" it, but you can put a few drops of light oil on it and that may quiet it down for a while.

Submariner409
02-18-14, 11:25 AM
As in most computer muffin fans, these have a sticky seal over the axle/sleeve bearing. The "oilless" bearing dries out over time and begins to squeal/hummmmmmm.

Yank off the end of the dash - the flat piece with the window air duct in it m- stick your index finger into the hole and pull. Remove the plastic duct. Straight in, you'll see a small black hex head machine screw. Use a ?? 5mm ?? socket on an extension, loosen the bolt and remove it with mechanic's spring fingers. Snake out the wiring connector and disconnect. Remove the aspirator module and blow it clean with canned computer air. There should be a seal patch over the fan blade center axle. Peel it back and place a drop of synthetic engine oil on the blade axle. Manually spin the blade a few turns. Replace the seal, assemble in reverse order.

If the module is toast, a new one is about $35 at a Cadillac dealer. Talk to Chris in parts at Rippy Cadillac, over there >>>

sts 03
02-18-14, 11:32 AM
Thanks , I'll give it a try

MoistCabbage
02-18-14, 02:03 PM
AHAH! I've been looking for these pictures for a long time. Found them on my old phone. Here's everything removed and/or replaced when I replaced the crossover gaskets:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/moistcabbage/145BD27F-8152-4577-ABD8-DE39CA736586_zps4nmyzwf0.jpg (http://s1130.photobucket.com/user/moistcabbage/media/145BD27F-8152-4577-ABD8-DE39CA736586_zps4nmyzwf0.jpg.html)

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/moistcabbage/4AC0463E-0C93-4B83-93B1-9B1032EA51A9_zpsv99rglph.jpg (http://s1130.photobucket.com/user/moistcabbage/media/4AC0463E-0C93-4B83-93B1-9B1032EA51A9_zpsv99rglph.jpg.html)

If I do it again, I'm removing the water pump drive pulley. I kept getting hung up on it reinstalling the crossover.

sts 03
02-18-14, 02:45 PM
Nice pics, the fsm says if the egr
Inlet pipe( which I am assuming is that flex looking pipe connecting to the egr ) if removed that it has to be replaced being that it has an incorporated crush seal .MC, do you remember anything about that?

Ranger
02-18-14, 02:59 PM
As in most computer muffin fans, these have a sticky seal over the axle/sleeve bearing. The "oilless" bearing dries out over time and begins to squeal/hummmmmmm.
There is an actual bearing in there? If so, I stand corrected, but boy it must be small.

MoistCabbage
02-18-14, 03:09 PM
The only EGR related thing I replaced was the gasket between the valve and crossover.

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No ball bearing in the fan, just a bronze (?) bushing.

sts 03
02-18-14, 03:27 PM
yeah if i pull that little motor i my as well replace it if its only $35 and its loud as hell when its cold out,so thats whats probably causing my heat to only work in max setting?sub i did blew it out with a can of air but i havent tested it yet,probably needs to be changed anyway .

Ranger
02-18-14, 03:30 PM
OK, bronze bushing just as I suspected. Probably sintered bronze. If that's the case you CAN re-oil them.

MoistCabbage
02-18-14, 03:32 PM
If the fan isn't running, the heat should still work at lower temps, it just won't hold the temp as accurately. If the thermistor is faulty, then yes, that may be your problem. Setting the system at 90 overrides the sensor and puts the system in full hot/high fan (and full cold/high fan when set to 60).

I've cleaned/oiled mine twice, it's getting noisy again. I'm going to replace it.

sts 03
02-18-14, 03:40 PM
yeah the heat wont work at all unless its in the max setting.

sts 03
02-25-14, 12:58 PM
In in doing the crossover gaskets now, which cables can I disconnect to make the harness move some?

sts 03
02-25-14, 06:39 PM
Is this the newer style water pump cover? It has the three square tangs like in subs photos but it has that tab piece where the gasket goes.

188785



188777 see how the gasket doesnt fit in the the tab ,would that be an issue and if so should i get the newer cover or get the right gasket with the tab?188897

MoistCabbage
02-25-14, 06:48 PM
Not positive, but I believe that's the old style cover.

sts 03
02-25-14, 07:00 PM
188809also on the ac delco gasket there is a tab at the bottom right of the gasket and the felpro doesn't have it ,does this matter?188817

sts 03
02-25-14, 09:39 PM
I'm confused and can someone help if they can I got everything apart.my water pump cover looks like the updated one except for the square/tab part in the grove where the gasket goes , my cover has the three square tabs around the edges like the updated Cover but the inside grove has that tab where the gasket goes.should I get the cover without the groove tab or get a gasket that has the tab on it?

188921



188929

MoistCabbage
02-25-14, 09:41 PM
If that's the old style cover, you really shouldn't use the new style gasket. So yeah, either get the old style seal, or (the better option) get the new style cover. Looking at how the seal fits, it actually may be the correct cover. Does it move side to side or is it snug in there? Does ~ half of the seal stick out past the mating surface?

Ranger
02-25-14, 09:45 PM
Anyone know when the switch over was?

sts 03
02-26-14, 08:04 AM
Also there is a slight difference between the felpro gasket and the the AC Delco.the Delco had rubber around the holes where the bolts go and it has a tab that comes off the outer edge .should I get the AC Delco gasket?

189034

The water pump cover gasket fits tight in the groove, it just has that tab in the groove.

189042

MoistCabbage
02-26-14, 08:07 AM
The gaskets have to be in place on the crossover hanging from the bolts while you install the crossover. The little bit of rubber goes a long way towards keeping the gaskets on the bolts. I'd hate to even try the ones you have pictured.

Submariner409
02-26-14, 08:23 AM
Stick the FelPro gasket and bolts to the crossover with a tad of gasket maker RTV. Same effect as the rubber bolt retainers on OEM.

sts 03
02-26-14, 08:56 AM
Ok, what about the water pump cover gasket , it fits in there there tight but it has that notch along the groove like in the pic I posted ? It's strange my pump cover has the three square tabs on the outer edge like the updated version but has that notch along the groove where the gasket goes like the old cover but the gasket does fit in tight except that notch in the groove is open?

Submariner409
02-26-14, 09:10 AM
Use it as-is. I did some snooping and couldn't find another example of that particular pump cover. The locating tab was used on the first design - your 2003 may be some sort of running design change.

My replacement (2002) cover (tabs) uses the same black gasket that you now have. Should be good to go.

sts 03
02-26-14, 10:41 AM
Thanks.

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I know about disconnecting the engine grounds, what about if I disconnect the transmission connector would that make the harness move more and also is there a way to remove the oil dipstick tube?

Mark C
02-26-14, 11:01 AM
You are miles ahead of the game if you can disconnect the connectors and pull that harness out of the valley between the engine and transmission, makes the job of getting the crossover manifold out and back in almost tolerable and will probably cut the job time by at least 1/3. There two types of dipsticks used on 00+ Sevilles, if the handle comes out in front of the cylinder head it has a bolt that holds the oil tube to the front of the block right under the front edge of the cam cover, If its off to the side near the water pump it is held on by a stud with a nut on the drivers side end of the block right under the water pump. Either way take the bolt or the nut off and the tube should pull right out of the hole in the block. Make sure the little o ring on the tube sealing area comes out with the tube, or fish it out before trying to put the tube back in..

sts 03
02-26-14, 11:23 AM
Ok,I got the rear ground off now I need to jack the car up take the air deflector off so I can get the other ground and tranny cable undone.yeah that harness us the main problem.

sts 03
02-26-14, 05:00 PM
Wow wow wow is all I can say , this is a real pita.I got the hard stuff done just got to hook the hoses back up and throttle cable up.I hope I didn't damage anything like broken wires .fingerscrossed.the plastic parts on the old crossover gaskets weren't although the one I saw that was weeping starting to deform and all the rubber parts lost there shape.for sure busted knuckles, scratched arms, lot of curse words and most of all beer .

MoistCabbage
02-26-14, 06:09 PM
Wow wow wow is all I can sayI had more to say when I got through with the job. From my thread on the subject:

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!........... Ok I feel better now.

As you may have guessed I started work on my coolant crossover today....

Took me about 6 hours over 2 days. Wouldn't want to do it again for less than $100 an hour.

sts 03
02-26-14, 06:27 PM
Yea that's how I'm doing it over a two day period .I only got a few now things to hook up.I'll have to finish tomorrow after work I had to run to the store plus it got cold out.yea I read your thread, you got the crossover fix to discover your freeze plug was leaking.

MoistCabbage
02-26-14, 06:37 PM
Actually the freeze plug fell out. The crossover had to come out to spend a minute replacing it. After it was all back together, I eventually discovered the head was cracked.

sts 03
02-26-14, 07:40 PM
Damn that sucks,I forgot to mention the soreness in the knees and back when doing this job.I actually disconnected the rear 02 sensor, both coil pack connectors, both engine grounds and probably something else to get the harness to move enough.the harness is definitely the biggest problem trying to get the bolts and crossover out.I just hope I didn't break any wires.oh yea I took the felpro gaskets back and got the Delco's and that rubber around the bolt holes really makes a difference I could even imagine doing it with the felpro unless you do what sub said and put rtv sealant around the bolt holes.

sts 03
02-26-14, 08:51 PM
I have a few more questions but I can only think of one now.should I replace the fuel injector o rings being that this is the second time they have been out.I can't remember for sure but I thought I read a thread that said if you remove your injectors that you should replace the o rings is this true ?

Ranger
02-26-14, 09:12 PM
No real need to unless they are cut or nicked. Always put a drop of oil on them when reinserting them. That'll make them slip in nice and easy without doing any damage.

sts 03
02-26-14, 09:27 PM
Ok, yea the other question was besides the gasket on the water pump housing and thermostat housing is there supposed to be any type of sealant ?cause there was some gooie stuff along mating surface that I had to get off with a razor.I'm not sure what it is but looks like some type type of sealant maybe.

MoistCabbage
02-26-14, 09:55 PM
No sealant necessary, just the seal.

sts 03
02-26-14, 10:26 PM
Ok,I don't know what that stuff was around the mating surface but it was gooie/sticky stuff.ok thanks

sts 03
02-27-14, 12:31 PM
Alldata says coolant capacity is a little over 3 gallons.I know when you drain the system all of the coolant doesn't come out, about how much do I need?

MoistCabbage
02-27-14, 01:49 PM
You removed the crossover, the block should be completely drained now.there might be a little at the bottom of the radiator and heater core, but it's close to empty. Just buy 2 gallons of non diluted coolant and 2 gallons of distilled water. You'll have more than enough.

Ranger
02-27-14, 02:08 PM
I'd bet you would be fine with one gallon of each. I don't think I have ever been able to get a full two gallons back in it after I drain it.

MoistCabbage
02-27-14, 02:24 PM
With just a drain and fill, you're right. But when you remove the crossover, more coolant drains from the block through the lower ports.

Ranger
02-27-14, 02:35 PM
Really? More than when I hook up a shop vac and blow out additional coolant?

sts 03
02-27-14, 06:32 PM
More did pour out when I removed the crossover ,I don't know how much.I'll get her right .I lost one of the water pump cover bolts, hopefully it's in my other jacket.

MoistCabbage
02-27-14, 06:47 PM
Really? More than when I hook up a shop vac and blow out additional coolant?

That, I've never done, so I'm not sure.

sts 03
02-27-14, 08:06 PM
Yeah I lost one of the water pump cover bolts, do you think advanced sells those style bolts or will I have to go to the dealer?

sts 03
02-27-14, 09:18 PM
I lost one of the water pump cover bolts, does anyone know if all four of them are the same studs bolts?

MoistCabbage
02-27-14, 09:21 PM
I don't think they're all the same (bolt/stud).you won't find them at any local parts or hardware store.

vincentm
02-28-14, 01:29 AM
When i removed my Crossover alot more coolant came out

sts 03
02-28-14, 07:39 AM
Idk I feel like they were all the same studs but not positive cause I had them all screwed in the crossover (with the cover off) I remember taking one out cause I was trying to tighten the lower crossover bolts and it was in the way.I looked on gmpartsgiant and it shows two different studs/bolts for the water pump cover , but it also says three required for each and the cover only uses four.I'm just going to the dealer.

sts 03
02-28-14, 08:13 PM
Found a water pump cover bolt a an AC Delco store, got everything back together just got to get some coolant.I just hope I didn't screw anything up in the process.

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Do I have to mix the coolant and water first or can I pour a gallon of water then a gallon of dex cool then top off as necessary?

rodnok01
02-28-14, 08:22 PM
I do half a gallon at a time of each for 1-2 gallons and less after that each time.

Dboy713(2000 Eldog)
02-28-14, 08:23 PM
U should mix it

MoistCabbage
02-28-14, 08:28 PM
Just mix it in a bucket first.

Ranger
02-28-14, 09:02 PM
Premixing is easier and far more accurate.

sts 03
02-28-14, 10:38 PM
Yea that's how I usually do it but it's dark cold and was just wondering for the first two gallons.

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I got a leak from that quick connect fitting under the egr valve .I think it's for the heater hose pipes.is it supposed to snapped back in or do I have to squeeze the tabs to get it in? Is there a trick to getting it in?

sts 03
03-01-14, 06:56 AM
Anybody know if the heater hose quick connect pipe under the egr valve is a pain to get it to connect properly or is mine damaged?I don't know why I didn't check it when the crossover was off cause I heard the plastic ring/clip in the part that screws in to the crossover can break.it's already a tight spot, is it suppose to connect easily? I took a mirror and looked in the metal fitting that screws in the crossover just under the egr , there is a lot of plastic chunks so I'm guessing that's part of the connector.I just don't know how it got broke that bad .

sts 03
03-01-14, 10:47 AM
Anybody know what size socket/wrench or what tools to get the heater hose connector off the one that screws in the crossover just under the egr? .it's tight in there and I feel like a dummy not checking it when the crossover was out.

MoistCabbage
03-01-14, 12:13 PM
The big hex connector? Not sure what size. I didn't use the quick disconnect, I unscrewed the connector.

sts 03
03-01-14, 01:20 PM
How did you unscrew it and did you do it while the crossover was still connected to the engine? I found a thread in here where a guy gave some instruction even with the dorman part number and all.it's a 27 mm (not deep socket) I hope this works.

MoistCabbage
03-01-14, 01:23 PM
With a big open end wrench, and yes.

sts 03
03-01-14, 04:18 PM
Finally got it done,I don't know why I didn't check that heater pipe connector before I put the crossover in.it would of Been much easier to change with it out of the car, yea The inside seal was totally gone.I don't know if I have more busted knuckles or cuts on my arms not to mention the soreness of my knees and back.

MoistCabbage
03-01-14, 04:22 PM
If you didn't throw any tools through any of the windows, you made out ok :sneaky:

Did you fill it up and start it yet? Any leaks?

Ranger
03-01-14, 08:07 PM
If you didn't throw any tools through any of the windows, you made out ok :sneaky:

:rofl: Laughing because I can totally relate.

sts 03
03-02-14, 08:43 AM
No I didn't throw any tools through the window lol.yea I started her up and let her run for 15 minutes but haven't driven it yet but so far so good.

sts 03
03-10-14, 03:26 PM
About how many drives after re filling the coolant would it take to be full cause I've only driven it maybe four or five times since I did the crossover gaskets and twice I had to add some coolant? Unless I still have a mysterious leak that's is evaporating, were could be some leak points that won't leave a puddle or drops that can be seen?

Ranger
03-10-14, 03:56 PM
By the 3rd drive all the air should have been purged. I don't think I have ever had to add coolant beyond that. Certainly by the 5th drive.

sts 03
03-10-14, 04:24 PM
Yea I topped it off today do if it's low again something else is leaking

MoistCabbage
03-10-14, 05:20 PM
You had ALOT apart/disconnected. Something being left loose wouldn't be out of the question. If you have to top it off again, go over your work, look for signs of dried DEX, and you can always rent a pressure test kit if you need to.

sts 03
03-10-14, 09:11 PM
there is dried dex cool everywhere from the time the mechanic didnt put the radiator sight shield on right over the top rad hose and the water pump pulley busted the hose and it sprayed all over the engine ,i dont see any leaks and i am trying the best i can to look over everything that was taking apart .i would think after diving four to five times it would be at the proper level or maybe i wasnt driving long enough .i didnt have to add that much today but if i have to add again then something else is up .what about those blacklight dye kits you can buy ?

MoistCabbage
03-10-14, 09:12 PM
They work. Petsonally, I'd try the preassure test kit first though

sts 03
03-16-14, 01:18 PM
So far since doing the crossover I have added about 3 to 3.5 gallons I used the last bit today .I had four gallons but a Half a gallon to a gallon leaked out when I first started filling up after the crossover fix cause the heater house fitting gasket was broke.I can't find any visible leaks .either it's taking this long to fill to proper level or I have a head gasket leak.if the heater core was leaking wouldn't the floor mat be wet? I'm starting to get worried it could be the had gasket cause I'm getting smoke from the exhaust and the misfire but the car has never run hot so can I still test for exhaust gases if it's never ran hot?

Submariner409
03-16-14, 01:23 PM
If the coolant level is proper and the engine has just been run for over 15 minutes or so you can perform a cylinder block exhaust gas test any time the spirit moves you.

How long does the tailpipe vapor last ?

sts 03
03-16-14, 01:40 PM
It can last 15 to 20 minutes sometimes and it's definitely not condensation cause yesterday it was warm in the afternoon .it only really does it at idle when I drive it stops by if I stop a light it starts coming out again.just now I started it it looked like a locomotive train.usually too when it smokes bad the ses light flashes.yesterday morning it was fine then I drove to d.c parked for thirty minutes or so went to start and it clicked the first Two tries then when it did start the ses light started flashing and it acted like it wanted to cut off and it started smoking.

Submariner409
03-16-14, 01:45 PM
"Locomotive ...." That's not good. Not good at all.

sts 03
03-16-14, 01:59 PM
Maybe this morning it could of been a combination of condensation and smoke cause it got cold last night but it was a lot.I'm really starting to think it could be the head gaskets.I guess I'm going to have to test for exhaust gases.it's never ran Hot not even close ,it never goes one 1-2 needle width past the middle and I drove up in the smoky mountains ,N.C in January .I was having to add coolant before then , but never ran hot driving all through the mountains.

Submariner409
03-16-14, 02:06 PM
We're not going to be able to further diagnose this online - you need some expert hands-on advice. Too many what-ifs and maybes floating around. All the usual DIY tests and fixits have been offered............ 136 posts have apparently gotten us nowhere.

Rent a block test kit from one of the big parts store chains or get one of these - http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/lis75500.html

Ranger
03-16-14, 08:15 PM
If it is a HG is is steam, not smoke, but you can solve the question rather quickly by simply going back there and smelling it. The fact that it "smokes" like a locomotive and you are having to add coolant does not bode well .

Mark C
03-16-14, 08:15 PM
If you're going thru that much water and it doesn't overheat, you have to have an external leak somewhere. The engines don't burn the water usually, the head gaskets over pressurize the cooling system and lift the cap which then blows the water out of the overflow, the pump cavitates and the engine overheats due to a loos of coolant mass, and the inability to circulate it.

I don't think there is anywhere on an 03 Cadillac where a leak could occur on the low pressure side of the engine (intake manifold, throttle body, etc) where water could be drawn into the intake and then sent thru the cylinders, like there is on the earlier cars that had a coolant heated throttle body.

sts 03
03-19-14, 06:07 PM
I'm pretty sure it's smoke and it doesn't have a sweet smell.I got a block test ,I tried to do it but I think the coolant level was to high (hopefully ) the instructions says it needs to be at least 3 inches from the opening and I took some out but as soon as I turned the car on it started to rise cause I didn't let it cool Down enough.I'm still worried it could be the Hg but it's never ran close to being hot and today I put it in second gear and did 6-7 wot to redline and the needle didn't move.I just don't know where the coolant is going .if the heater core was to leak wouldn't the passenger floor mat be wet? The only part of the carpet that gets wet is under the passenger seat and I assumed that's leaking through the door seal.I'll have to try three block test again after it cools Down .

Ranger
03-19-14, 08:12 PM
I'm pretty sure it's smoke and it doesn't have a sweet smell.
That's a good sign. And smoke will linger longer than steam.


I put it in second gear and did 6-7 wot to redline and the needle didn't move.
Another good sign.


If the heater core was to leak wouldn't the passenger floor mat be wet?
Yes

sts 03
03-20-14, 11:56 AM
I did the block test today , the test fluid bottle from AutoZone says it has to turn yellow to have exhaust gases if it stays blue or blue/green to check for external leaks.it did turn a slight blue /green .the car didn't some at all today so far.I'm going to get the block test fluid from napa it's much darker blue and try again to be sure.if it's not the head gaskets(hopefully)I don't know where the hell the coolant could be going.

Ranger
03-20-14, 02:13 PM
Any change in color is not good. See what the second test shows.

sts 03
03-20-14, 07:20 PM
Yea idk the AutoZone test fluid says on the bottle that it has to turn YELLOW to fail that if it stays blue or turns blue/green to look for external leaks.I bought a different brand test fluid from napa but it doesn't have any instructions about the color change, but yea the AutoZone one says if it's blue or changes blue/green to look for external leaks.I'll try again.

oldstuff
03-20-14, 08:06 PM
If you are to full when you test, some coolant will get into your fluid and give the blue/green appearance. Make sure it isn't to full or boiling/gurgeling when testing.
Dave



Yea idk the AutoZone test fluid says on the bottle that it has to turn YELLOW to fail that if it stays blue or turns blue/green to look for external leaks.I bought a different brand test fluid from napa but it doesn't have any instructions about the color change, but yea the AutoZone one says if it's blue or changes blue/green to look for external leaks.I'll try again.

MoistCabbage
03-21-14, 02:18 AM
ANY color change is a POSITIVE result. The more hydrocarbons present, the faster/more obvious the color change.

sts 03
03-21-14, 09:30 AM
I'm just saying the bottle from AutoZone says it has to turn YELLOW if it's blue or blue/Green look for the leaks elsewhere napa test fluid doesn't say anything so I'm assuming that if the napa test fluid changes any color it fails.the AutoZone fluid is a light sky blue and the napa is a very dark blue maybe that's why the AutoZone bottles says it has to turn YELLOW.I need to drive around some more before I test again cause I've been adding coolant .I'm pretty sure it's the head gasket without the test cause I'm loosing coolant pretty fast and I can't find any visible leak and I have the smoke and misfire.still don't know why the needle doesn't move when I light it up in 2nd gear.idk maybe only one side pulled the head bolts.

stoveguyy
03-21-14, 09:45 AM
My car had leak for several yrs. never once overheated. I never let coolant get too low.

sts 03
03-21-14, 08:15 PM
Yea I'm thinking maybe only one side head bolts pulled cause I can light it up in 2nd gear to redline 5-6 times within 20 minute period and the needle won't budge.unless my block is cracked or does it usually have to run hot for the block to crack? Is there any way to find out which head pulled a since the 03 aren't that common for head gasket leaks (supposedly) on the block test kit it says you can disconnect the plug wires to one bank (our cars would be coil pack ) then run the car for 1-2 minutes and then test again to see what bank is leaking , that's if it's only one bank to begin with.would this process mess something up?it would be better for me now if it was the left bank only cause the engine doesn't have to be pulled to do that side right?

oldstuff
03-21-14, 09:05 PM
Dont kid yourself. It has to come out. Can you imagine handling those timing chains with the little room to take the timing cover off then actually work in there?
Dave


Yea I'm thinking maybe only one side head bolts pulled cause I can light it up in 2nd gear to redline 5-6 times within 20 minute period and the needle won't budge.unless my block is cracked or does it usually have to run hot for the block to crack? Is there any way to find out which head pulled a since the 03 aren't that common for head gasket leaks (supposedly) on the block test kit it says you can disconnect the plug wires to one bank (our cars would be coil pack ) then run the car for 1-2 minutes and then test again to see what bank is leaking , that's if it's only one bank to begin with.would this process mess something up?it would be better for me now if it was the left bank only cause the engine doesn't have to be pulled to do that side right?

sts 03
03-21-14, 10:06 PM
Oh cause I saw a video where some guy did the left bank while it was in the car.idk know what I'm going to do with this car , I'm definitely not paying $3000 to fix it I'll try it my self with my fsm.I actually found a 03 sts engine with 75,000 miles for $750 but it's way out in the boone docks which I would drive and check out.if I was to drop another engine with the same Vin 9 would it have to be reprogrammed etc...?

MoistCabbage
03-21-14, 11:24 PM
And what would swapping the engine accomplish? It could have the same issue yours has, and more. And you won't know until it's I stalled and running in your car.

If you're able to remove the engine, inserting/studding it isn't all that much more work.

sts 03
03-21-14, 11:36 PM
Yes it would be Taking a chance but a 03 with 75000 miles for $750 yea I would have to drive out in the country to check it out. .I was just saying since supposedly 03 chances of having Hg bolts pulled are much slimmer.I'm just asking cause that's only a couple hundred more than the stud kit would that be a better just cause of the lower miles.I know I don't know what's the deal with any used engine I was just Making suggestions.my engine starting to make a Loud tapping/knocking noise that does go away so far when it warms up some , maybe it's cold carbon knock?

MoistCabbage
03-21-14, 11:41 PM
Some '04's, all '05's+. Those are the years that are most unlikely not to have issues. An '03 is just as likely to have a failure as an '00, and mileage is irrelevant.

The engine is $750? Inserts are cheaper than that.

sts 03
03-21-14, 11:55 PM
I thought 02-03 they came out with longer bolts? Cause in northstar technical engine performance the 03 is pretty low percentage fail 04 was really low and 05+ was pretty much non existent? Does the timeserts come with the drill bit ,taps,etc. . Like with the kit with suregrips?

MoistCabbage
03-22-14, 12:11 AM
Longer bolts and changes to the block casting process came in '00.

sts 03
03-22-14, 12:20 AM
does the timeserts come with the drill bit ,tap ,the plate thing t make sure you drill in straight ,etc ..

Ranger
03-22-14, 09:50 AM
Yes, the kits come with all that stuff. You just need to buy extra inserts.

http://www.timesert.com/images/kits/manufacturer/NorthStar01.jpg

sts 03
03-22-14, 10:08 AM
Is time serts what GM uses cause I thought I read before that people would it done at a dealership and a lot of them would fail soon maybe in thinking of something else.? Can you change the title of the thread to 03 Seville head gasket repair or something to that sort and you can probably merge my misfire thread since they are probably related , thanks.

Ranger
03-22-14, 10:18 AM
Timesert is the official GM repair. Some of the earlier ones with the same (fine) thread pitch where failing. They then went to the coarser '04 thread pitch. You want to be sure to use the coarser thread pitch. I believe that may now be the only one Timesert sells, but I wouldn't swear to it. The other option is NS300L inserts. They are a coarse thread. Then of coarse there are the studs.

sts 03
03-22-14, 11:41 AM
Ok thanks I'll look through each of the sites then decided from there.what's the best way to take the engine out dropping the cradle with shocks and everything attached or up through the hood?I have every thing at my work to do it either way ,I got pallets , pallet jacks fork lifts,etc...we even got a hydraulic lift but I probably won't be able to use that cause there is always a company truck on it.but the fork lift and pallet jack will come in handy.

Ranger
03-22-14, 11:52 AM
All the reports I have heard say out the bottom is far easier. Can't speak from experience and doubt I ever will.

sts 03
03-22-14, 05:52 PM
I wonder why the time sert kit only comes with ten inserts you have to buy the other ten separately.

Ranger
03-22-14, 08:05 PM
So they can make more money.

sts 03
03-22-14, 08:15 PM
Lol that's true.

sts 03
03-23-14, 11:36 AM
Sub or ranger can you change the title if this thread to 2003 head gasket repair .thanks

Ranger
03-23-14, 08:46 PM
Done

sts 03
03-23-14, 10:40 PM
thanks ranger,still debating if i want to go with time serts or suregrips .the thing is you read on each of the sites for inserts or studs and they claim there product is superior to the other etc... so the big serts are for if you had time serts that failed?does the crankshaft and water pump pulleys have to be removed to to do the hg job,ive been reading old threads on pre 2000 n* and they were saying those pulleys need to be removed?

Ranger
03-24-14, 09:57 AM
Either one or even Norm's NS300L inserts will work just fine.

Crankshaft stays in place. WP drive pulley stays in place as well. It comes off with the head.


so the big serts are for if you had time serts that failed?
Correct. Otherwise you use the regular Timeserts with the coarser thread pitch.

sts 03
03-24-14, 10:15 AM
Yea I was wondering why on some old head gasket repair threads they were saying you need a puller for the crankshaft and water pump pulleys.

Mark C
03-24-14, 10:31 AM
You need the puller for the harmonic balancer on the crankshaft so you can put the three timing chains back on in the correct alignment with each other, after you put the heads back on. the only way to see the alignment marks on the intermediate pulley (crank drives it, and it drives the valve chains) is to pull the timing cover, and the only way to get the cover off it to pull the harmonic dampener.

You have to remove the water pump pulley to get the cam cover off the front head, to get at the head bolts. Plus it you want to replace the seal on the end of the cam cover where the drive shaft passes thru the cam cover, it has to come off as well.

Ranger
03-24-14, 10:48 AM
You have to remove the water pump pulley to get the cam cover off the front head, to get at the head bolts.
Oops! Forgot about that. :bang2: There goes another punch in my dumbshit card.

sts 03
03-24-14, 10:18 PM
Is it the same puller for both? as for the timing chains I was reading a thread where he was talking about nail polish to mark the position if the chains and using zip ties to hold the chains but it didn't say if this was with removing the timing cover or not?

Mark C
03-24-14, 11:04 PM
You might mark the chains or zip tie them to the gears if you were swapping a cam or something relatively minor, but you going to have to drop the chains down thru the openings in the heads to get the head off. GM sells tools for maintaining the tension of the cam chains for a cam swap, or cam removal. The chains won't fit thru the holes at the end of the head with the gears attached, and ultimately when the tension is removed from the chains they are going to fall off the intermediate chain drive gears when you do loosen them up. the tensioners have to be removed because they will extend when the tension is taken off of them, and the chain followers will need to be removed to get the heads off. When it comes time to reinstall the cam chains, you will want to be able to see the timing marks on all the gears.

196433

You will have to remove the oil pump, and the cam chain tensioners and followers shown in the picture below, the oil pump to get at the timing marks on the chain gears, and the tensioners and followers to allow the heads to come off, and to reset the tensioners when you reinstall the chains.

196441

sts 03
03-25-14, 01:16 AM
Thanks for the pics, I just watched a video of a guy putting the timing chains etc. on a 99 Seville.I got a fsm I'll be studying all that before I do this job.

maeng9981
03-25-14, 05:37 AM
Timing correctly isn't that difficult with everything basically visible. I just used a big 3-jaw puller for the crankshaft pulley and a power steering pump pulley puller for the water pump pulley.

sts 03
03-25-14, 09:10 AM
i actually have a 3 jaw puller for the crankshaft pulley,do part stores loan out power steering pump pullers?what would be the main pain pulling the engine from the top,ive read some threads that some prefer pulling from the stop but still say its easier to drop the cradle?

stoveguyy
03-25-14, 09:49 AM
Main pain is removing engine/trans brackets. It is very hard to reach bolts with subframe in way. Seems counterintuitive but lowering rear of subframe 4-5" makes Unbolting exhaust flanges much easier. Than lift subframe back up. Don't forget steering knuckle bolt if u do this.

Ranger
03-25-14, 09:59 AM
i actually have a 3 jaw puller for the crankshaft pulley,do part stores loan out power steering pump pullers?
Yes.

sts 03
03-25-14, 10:27 AM
Ok I'm just trying to get a list together of what I need.what about those pin things to lock the steering wheel before disconnecting the steering rack, do they loans those out or is there something else that can be used?

sts 03
03-25-14, 12:53 PM
so the main thing with the timing is to make sure the timing marks are vertical and make sure the cam shafts dont move when taking apart.the fsm calls for the special tools like this thing that goes across the cam shafts to keep them from turning,crankshaft socket and something to keep the crankshaft from turning while loosen the crankshaft pully nut.does anyone rent these type of tools out for northstars or are there other tricks to the trade.I forgot who it was who did this repair said that a lot of the tools special that the fsm calls for doesn't have to necessarily be used.

oldstuff
03-25-14, 06:26 PM
If you know what you are doing you will have the engine on a stand and locking the crank from turning can be done with the flywheel. The timing marks don't mean anything. Just have #1 on top dead center and all four cam gear marks at 90 from the surface of the heads ( not verticle). You don't need any holding device , you can turn the cam shafts a little to line up with a crescent wrench. Don't even waste your time trying this with the engine in the car. Even if you succeed you will take a good deal longer than droping it out the bottom as it is meant to be done. You can't take it out from the top because you can't access the bolts to do so.
Dave


so the main thing with the timing is to make sure the timing marks are vertical and make sure the cam shafts dont move when taking apart.the fsm calls for the special tools like this thing that goes across the cam shafts to keep them from turning,crankshaft socket and something to keep the crankshaft from turning while loosen the crankshaft pully nut.does anyone rent these type of tools out for northstars or are there other tricks to the trade.I forgot who it was who did this repair said that a lot of the tools special that the fsm calls for doesn't have to necessarily be used.

----------

You don't have to worry about locking the steering wheel, the U joint has a thru bolt holding it on and will only go on in one position,
Dave



Ok I'm just trying to get a list together of what I need.what about those pin things to lock the steering wheel before disconnecting the steering rack, do they loans those out or is there something else that can be used?

sts 03
03-25-14, 09:51 PM
oh ok, the fsm says to lock the steering wheel by sticking that pin thing to keep the steering wheel from moving (thats not necessary?) the timimg marks i was referring to are on the secondary cam sprockets, the fsm they need to be vertical with the head(if i remember correctly) .I ordered the ccc studs by the way, the price was good .I just have to buy two bits and a tap.I know there has been things said about not using the jig plate to drill and tap but from his videos it looks pretty straight forward since you use a smaller drill bit first.

maeng9981
03-26-14, 05:46 AM
Disconnect the steering intermediate shaft from the rack and don't spin the steering wheel. I have not heard of a pin to lock any steering components.

sts 03
03-26-14, 10:07 AM
Yea in the fsm it says to stick this tool(looks kinda like a pin of some sort) in hole in the steering column to keep the steering wheel from moving when the rack is disconnected.I wasn't sure if this was necessary.the misfire symptoms associated with a head gasket leak is it only When the car has been sitting for a while? cause the misfire is actually worse after the car is warmed up like if I go in the store for 30 minutes or so and come out the car will want to cut off and as I start to drive it will studder bad then start to go then studder bad then go while the ses light flashes with lots of smoke from exhaust with a burning smell (probably cat cooking) sometimes it will smooth out and drive fine home or I will cut the car off then back on and it will be better.but yea it studdering like its going to cut off wasn't sure if head gaskets will cause a misfire that bad after the car is warmed up +

oldstuff
03-26-14, 11:20 AM
No need to lock the steering wheel. Just have the steering rack more or less centered and the wheel more or less centered and the shaft will slip right back on. It can only go on one way for the through bolt to go back in.

It's hard to get the heads back on over the bolts if they aren't perfectly straight up. There isn't much wiggle room. Just a small bit out of verticle means a lot of diference at the length of a stud. Thats the reason for the plates.
Dave



oh ok, the fsm says to lock the steering wheel by sticking that pin thing to keep the steering wheel from moving (thats not necessary?) the timimg marks i was referring to are on the secondary cam sprockets, the fsm they need to be vertical with the head(if i remember correctly) .I ordered the ccc studs by the way, the price was good .I just have to buy two bits and a tap.I know there has been things said about not using the jig plate to drill and tap but from his videos it looks pretty straight forward since you use a smaller drill bit first.

----------

That sounds like raw fuel going through it into the CAT. Possibly from spark plugs cutting in and out with mixture changes as the engine warms up.
Dave



Yea in the fsm it says to stick this tool(looks kinda like a pin of some sort) in hole in the steering column to keep the steering wheel from moving when the rack is disconnected.I wasn't sure if this was necessary.the misfire symptoms associated with a head gasket leak is it only When the car has been sitting for a while? cause the misfire is actually worse after the car is warmed up like if I go in the store for 30 minutes or so and come out the car will want to cut off and as I start to drive it will studder bad then start to go then studder bad then go while the ses light flashes with lots of smoke from exhaust with a burning smell (probably cat cooking) sometimes it will smooth out and drive fine home or I will cut the car off then back on and it will be better.but yea it studdering like its going to cut off wasn't sure if head gaskets will cause a misfire that bad after the car is warmed up +

MoistCabbage
03-26-14, 02:11 PM
No need to lock the steering wheel. Just have the steering rack more or less centered and the wheel more or less centered and the shaft will slip right back on. It can only go on one way for the through bolt to go back in.I can promise you the ISS will not simply slide right back onto the input shaft of the rack. Lots of fiddling and trying to keep the rubber bellow out if the way.

sts 03
03-26-14, 03:06 PM
That's probably why without using the jig plate you have to use the two different size bits and taps to get it started, from his videos it doesn't look all that bad without the plate.

oldstuff
03-26-14, 04:06 PM
You can do it but you might have to have a big sledge hammer to get the head down over the studs. No big deal the junk yards have a lot of engines.
Dave


That's probably why without using the jig plate you have to use the two different size bits and taps to get it started, from his videos it doesn't look all that bad without the plate.

sts 03
03-26-14, 06:14 PM
So you are saying everyone who installed his studs without a plate are going to need a new block? Even with the sure grip stud instructions says if you need to use a rubber mallet to align in studs if need be to.

oldstuff
03-26-14, 06:42 PM
Not really. You can always bend the bolts to an alignment. Just a few thousandts of an inch off of straight can put the end of the bolt 1/8 th of an inch out. then figure you have two such bolts in exact opposite direction and you have a 1/4 inch spread to contend with. Not fun--Better to use the guide plates.
Dave


So you are saying everyone who installed his studs without a plate are going to need a new block? Even with the sure grip stud instructions says if you need to use a rubber mallet to align in studs if need be to.

sts 03
03-26-14, 11:37 PM
what all gasket do i need ,i know some are reusable ?im getting felpro head gaskets ,i was going to get felpro valve cover gaskets but i heard on 2000+northstars there gasket set has some issues with the grommets(my valve cover gaskets have a oil weep). any others that should be changed and what about the felpro valve cover gaskets?

maeng9981
03-27-14, 06:51 AM
I used the Felpro top-engine gasket set which included all gaskets needed for a typical head gasket repair. Everything fit fine.

sts 03
03-27-14, 09:14 AM
Where did you get that felpro set from, rock auto? Does the timing cover gasket need to be changed?

arctic_man
03-27-14, 04:59 PM
Where did you get that felpro set from, rock auto? Does the timing cover gasket need to be changed?

I got mine from RockAuto. For the timing gasket, since you are there, you mine as well replace it. Better to do it now than later. In the grand scheme of things, it isn't too expensive.

sts 03
03-27-14, 07:09 PM
The main thing I need to get straight before I start is the wiring harness.does the wiring harness with pcm come out?I see where some of the cables with big connectors are on the drivers side just below the strut mount (I assume that gets disconnected) there are Also two wiring harnesses going to the bottom off the fuse box , does the fuse box come out or can those be disconnected) if someone can give me a quick run Down with the wire harness for engine removal that would be great.

sts 03
03-28-14, 08:18 AM
Is it better to bring the whole main wiring harness/pcm out with car or leave it in?

ternstes
03-28-14, 09:45 AM
The majority of the electrical should come out with the cradle. The fuse box separates. Gently pry the tabs around the sides and the top will separate from the bottom. Flip it over and you will see three large square connections with a bolt through each one. Undo the bolt, and pull the connections out. Two will go with the cradle out of the car, one will remain.

The big connector on the driver strut tower needs unconnected as it will come out as well. Pull the pcm out of the airbox and flop it on top of the engine when removing/installing the cradle.

sts 03
03-28-14, 11:48 AM
Ok thanks,I wasn't trying to separate the engine tranny if I don't have to, is there any other way to hold the crankshaft from turning when trying to get the damper nut off besides the fly wheel?

Mark C
03-28-14, 11:57 AM
Feed a piece of soft cotton clothes line into one of the cylinders then rotate the engine around by hand until the rope compresses up against the head. the engine is essentially locked up at that point and you can unbolt the harmonic dampener. Make sure you rotate the engine counter clockwise when locking it up, and leave enough rope sticking out to pull it out later. Of course since your removing the heads the second part doesn't really matter.

rodnok01
03-28-14, 12:18 PM
You can put a tool on the flexplate teeth, they sell one that bolts to starter mount hole. Most have rigged something up though.

sts 03
03-28-14, 12:20 PM
I also heard you can use a strap wrench or chain wrench with a leather belt around the damper? Yea that's the tool they use in the fsm on the fly wheel , so any part store should sell that tool?

rodnok01
03-28-14, 12:27 PM
Doubt parts store has flywheel holder in stock, they run about $100 IIRC.

ternstes
03-29-14, 11:03 AM
I also heard you can use a strap wrench or chain wrench with a leather belt around the damper? Yea that's the tool they use in the fsm on the fly wheel , so any part store should sell that tool?

Careful, the damper bolt takes A LOT of force to break loose. Check eBay for the flywheel holder j tool, you may find someone parting with one for cheap.


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sts 03
03-29-14, 06:06 PM
I think I'm going to try to take the engine out the top.I've been talking to Tim Carroll from ccc and he was saying if I was able to change the crossover gaskets then out the top should be do able since removing the crossover to get at at the engine /Trans bolts.does alldata have the alternative (out the top) instructions?

ternstes
03-29-14, 09:25 PM
I think I'm going to try to take the engine out the top.I've been talking to Tim Carroll from ccc and he was saying if I was able to change the crossover gaskets then out the top should be do able since removing the crossover to get at at the engine /Trans bolts.does alldata have the alternative (out the top) instructions?

I don't think all data has out the top instructions. Basically, you would remove the exhaust y pipe, ALL the trans to engine braces and unhook all the engine electrical since it will be staying with the body. I think you need to remove the balancer before pulling the engine, otherwise there isn't enough room to get the engine off of the trans alignment pins when separating.


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vincentm
03-30-14, 11:54 AM
I don't think all data has out the top instructions. Basically, you would remove the exhaust y pipe, ALL the trans to engine braces and unhook all the engine electrical since it will be staying with the body. I think you need to remove the balancer before pulling the engine, otherwise there isn't enough room to get the engine off of the trans alignment pins when separating.

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Out the top, taken from Alldata


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-engines-system-technical-discussion/226769-northstar-removal-guide-feedback-wanted.html

sts 03
03-30-14, 01:32 PM
I notice some remove the radiator /condenser and water crossover?

rodnok01
03-30-14, 02:17 PM
I think the crossover has to come out to separate from the trans.
I would take rad/condenser out to keep them from getting damaged even if you didn't have to. Too easy to dork em up.

sts 03
03-30-14, 06:16 PM
Thanks and I can access the fly wheel and torque convertor bolts where the starter goes or do I take the cover off at the bottom to get to those bolts?

maeng9981
04-01-14, 05:28 AM
Either way would be fine. I did not want to work under the car so I just accessed them through the starter hole using one of these.
http://i.imgur.com/UarHvQ9.png

sts 03
04-01-14, 09:31 AM
Do you remember what size wrench it was? I'm pulling from the top so I would have to take the torque converter/flywheel cover off anyways right?

ternstes
04-01-14, 09:55 AM
Do you remember what size wrench it was? I'm pulling from the top so I would have to take the torque converter/flywheel cover off anyways right?

Torque converter bolts are 18 MM. The cover doesn't have to come off if you aren't removing the bolts from below.

sts 03
04-01-14, 11:20 AM
If I'm pulling the engine from the top does the torque converter cover have to come off?

sts 03
04-03-14, 10:48 AM
Few more brackets and wires.I still have to undo the power steering pump lines but hopefully it should be ready to pull by Saturday.I've only been working on it 1-2 hours after work this week.typically how long does it usually take one person to pull engine from top and do I have to disconnect the o2 sensor connector after the cat to get the harness to move more? By the way I'm leaving the harness in the car.

oldstuff
04-03-14, 12:33 PM
Actually it is very rare for anyone to succeed in top removal so saying how long it takes is impossible to say.
I've known of a lot of those trying that gave up and did it from the bottom after wasting a lot of time. Just wait until you put it back in and have to replace that wireing harness and hook it up to everything.
Dave




Few more brackets and wires.I still have to undo the power steering pump lines but hopefully it should be ready to pull by Saturday.I've only been working on it 1-2 hours after work this week.typically how long does it usually take one person to pull engine from top and do I have to disconnect the o2 sensor connector after the cat to get the harness to move more? By the way I'm leaving the harness in the car.

sts 03
04-05-14, 01:16 PM
Actually the wiring harness stays in the car and many have taken the engine from the top.all I have do is unbolt the flywheel to torque converter Bolts and one more Bracket .I'm trying to figure out how to turn the flywheel while it's still in the car?

ternstes
04-05-14, 02:53 PM
Actually the wiring harness stays in the car and many have taken the engine from the top.all I have do is unbolt the flywheel to torque converter Bolts and one more Bracket .I'm trying to figure out how to turn the flywheel while it's still in the car?

Put a ratchet on the crank bolt to rotate the engine


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oldstuff
04-05-14, 03:20 PM
I've known of many that swore they would take it from the top and everyone of them went to the bottom after wasting a good deal of time trying.
It's probably not impossible but a huge waste of time and effort.
Dave



Actually the wiring harness stays in the car and many have taken the engine from the top.all I have do is unbolt the flywheel to torque converter Bolts and one more Bracket .I'm trying to figure out how to turn the flywheel while it's still in the car?

sts 03
04-05-14, 04:02 PM
It's ready to pull but my forklift at work is out of propane.it's not all that bad there are some tight spots but I actually took the y pipe off with out lowering the subframe..

sts 03
04-10-14, 08:48 PM
Its out, so the top is doable.

202289

oldstuff
04-11-14, 10:58 AM
Bravo! Now tell us if you damaged anything ( hope not ).
Dave



Its out, so the top is doable.

202289

sts 03
04-11-14, 01:34 PM
So far so good.

maeng9981
04-12-14, 12:50 AM
Looks good!

sts 03
04-12-14, 08:14 PM
Thanks ,just wish I didn't have to do this at my work.it sucks having to work 10-11 hours a day then spend an hour or two after work at work doing this that's why it's taking me so long.

rodnok01
04-12-14, 08:23 PM
Be glad you have someplace at least to work on it. It also saves you time, cause once you get home after long day motivation dwindles. You'll get er done..

sts 03
04-13-14, 08:31 AM
Oh yea I am happy I do have somewhere to work on it, just wish I had a house with garage or work shed .but yea at least I do I have somewhere to work on it.

sts 03
04-15-14, 09:09 PM
Well guess what this engine was time serted already.I got this car at 80,000 miles and it only has 115,000 , not sure when it was time serted but it damn sure didn't last long.

stoveguyy
04-16-14, 10:38 AM
Not going to read 100 posts. Motor overheated? All timeserts are good? Some are failed? Perhaps headgasket failed and serts are fine? Maybe head is not flat?

Ranger
04-16-14, 10:46 AM
Yeah, that's odd, especially for an '03. Where they "Timeserts" as opposed to some other insert? What thread pitch where they? They weren't Helicoils, where they? Can you tell if it was the insert or the HG that failed? Can you post any pictures?

sts 03
04-16-14, 01:17 PM
I'm really not sure I think they are time serts yea I can post a pic.all I know is when I was breaking them loose six of them I could loosing by hand and the others I had to use a breaker bar.18 of the time serts are still threaded in the block and two of them actually came up with the studs.but those six that weren't torqued like the rest is why I was loosing coolant so fast.

Ranger
04-16-14, 02:48 PM
Maybe they where not installed correctly. :noidea:

sts 03
04-17-14, 02:06 PM
They probably weren't torque right or maybe forgot to put thread locker in the ones that were loose.

sts 03
04-18-14, 07:00 AM
Here is one.
204985

Ranger
04-18-14, 09:46 AM
Is that aluminum or thread locker in those threads?

sts 03
04-18-14, 12:53 PM
I'm not sure either I think its aluminum but you see the top of the sert is split.

rodnok01
04-18-14, 01:00 PM
Looks like a crappy install to me, possible hole was oversized or not threaded properly. If it was thread locker wouldn't expect to see so much.

sts 03
04-29-14, 04:14 PM
I finally got the studs in.

sts 03
05-01-14, 03:11 PM
I got the heads on and torque.they went on fairly easy .

sts 03
05-13-14, 12:41 PM
The engine is in and bolted to tranny.it's a must to Jack the tranny up some when pulling the engine from top and putting in through the top.

sts 03
05-24-14, 04:18 PM
She is back on the road and running good , thanks for all the help.

sts 03
05-29-14, 01:57 PM
The car is running strong .I think the whole thing about drilling and tapping with guide plates, stop bushings,etc... Is over rated .maybe if you were drilling into a solid block but the holes are already there and by grinding a little off the tip of the bit keeps it from going to deep and it does self guide down into the hole.as far as the tapping is easy to tell if it's going in straight or not.hey I saved $300 on using ccc studs.