: B&B and TPIS Headers



MN CTS-VETT
06-28-05, 02:12 AM
Been researching past posts on headers and exhaust systems and there seems to be a general comment about drone in the 1300 - 1700 RPM range with the B&B exhaust - and potentially with the TPIS headers (not to mention problems with the TPIS header potentially hitting the steering linkage!) Looks like everyone backed away from the TPIS headers for this reason. The TPIS shop is in town (Chaska, MN), so I think I will head over and ask them if they still recommend "moving the motor" to resolve the issue (as previously stated :banghead: ). After that comment it looks like everyone was scared off. For $1,000 versus $1,395 (for the B&B Headers), thought perhaps it is worth investigating further, since there may be more users out there now of both products. Has the drone disappeared with recent Billy Boat headers/exhaust, or are earplugs and Bose noisecancellation headphones for the wife part of the equation? :D

StealthV
06-28-05, 07:55 AM
From my point of view, the biggest thing about the TPiS headers is they aren't/weren't marketed very well and require some exhaust fabrication. There are some members here who have them and like them very much.

B&B headers:
- No clearance issues, easy installation
- Come with 5" converters welded on
- Easy bolt up to B&B exhaust
- Had a group buy at a good price

Resonance on the headers is more due to the choice of exhaust bolted to them. A X-pipe does have some under high loads from 1500 - 1900 rpm with the headers. Right now I'm working on a non-invasive solution as I'm not giving up the power of the 3" x-pipe exhaust again.

You can experience mine next week... :)

2005V
06-28-05, 09:16 AM
Take a look at the Stainless Works headers and 3" exhaust system w/ x-pipe if you would like a 3rd option. I have no drone at any rpm and and the set up with a Lingenfelter CAI resulted in 359.7 RWHP - 351.7 RWTQ vs. 331.9 RWHP, 322.3 RWTQ stock. Best of luck.

Nick

thebigjimsho
06-28-05, 09:43 AM
From my point of view, the biggest thing about the TPiS headers is they aren't/weren't marketed very well and require some exhaust fabrication. There are some members here who have them and like them very much.

B&B headers:
- No clearance issues, easy installation
- Come with 5" converters welded on
- Easy bolt up to B&B exhaust
- Had a group buy at a good price

Resonance on the headers is more due to the choice of exhaust bolted to them. A X-pipe does have some under high loads from 1500 - 1900 rpm with the headers. Right now I'm working on a non-invasive solution as I'm not giving up the power of the 3" x-pipe exhaust again.

You can experience mine next week... :)So would it be wise to wait a week or two to buy a full exhaust?

urbanski
06-28-05, 10:34 AM
the SW and TPiS headers don't come w/ attached cats like the BB does, so factor in the cost of some Random Tech cats...plus any fabrication that may be needed to make them mate w/ your chosen exhaust.

B&B = bolt-on goodness :D

sefa01
06-28-05, 11:03 AM
I've had the TPIS headers since last September with absolutely no problems. I put the B&B exhaust on at the same time, but took it off within a couple of weeks because of the drone.

However, I got the cones from B&B and had it re-installed and there's little if any drone now. All the work was done by CarTek. However, there was very little that had to be done with the exhaust in regard to the headers.

WillCTSV has had all sorts of problems with the B&B headers. He took a close look at the TPIS when we were together at Pocono Raceway and liked the construction. So do I.

BTW, TPIS also makes a performance clutch for the V. Clutch disc, flywheel, master cylinder, etc. Worth looking into.

urbanski
06-28-05, 11:23 AM
...

BTW, TPIS also makes a performance clutch for the V. Clutch disc, flywheel, master cylinder, etc. Worth looking into.
indeed
that's next on my list....when i fry mine :D

Rey
06-28-05, 11:57 AM
I have 10K miles on TPIS headers and really like them. The fit is marvelous. There were absolutely zero installation problems. My installer said it was incredibly easy. Yes, they require after market cats, but that is no big deal, and neither is the small amount of exhaust work.
As for the complaint about fitment, I think that was a flame from just one customer. The CTS-V motor mounts are very soft and manufacturing variances will sometimes close up some clearances on specific vehicles. Simple shiminmg of the mounts fixes this problem.
Long tube headers offer a very distinct performance increase over stock exhaust and short tube headers.

ssmith100
06-28-05, 12:08 PM
Rey,

Do you have any pics of the TPIS headers with your CATS and did you have to shim yours????

Thanks,

Shane

2005V
06-28-05, 01:02 PM
the SW and TPiS headers don't come w/ attached cats like the BB does, so factor in the cost of some Random Tech cats...plus any fabrication that may be needed to make them mate w/ your chosen exhaust.

Actually, the Random Tech cats are welded in and included w/ the Stainless Works 3" exhaust system so no worries there. Just another option for those who can't live with the drone...

Nick

StealthV
06-28-05, 01:07 PM
Long tube headers offer a very distinct performance increase over stock exhaust and short tube headers.

The almost-long tube, not shorties! B&B headers dyno 4 hp less than the true B&B long tubes which is statistically insignificant. For me, bolt on simplicity to any exhaust - stock or otherwise is worth 4 hp; besides, my V has much more than 360 RWHP. :)

urbanski
06-28-05, 01:15 PM
and we'll pick up that "missing" 4 HP in other ways :)

MN CTS-VETT
06-28-05, 01:16 PM
Looks like Stainless Works has the best header option ($899, if above is correct with cat also) if fabrication (to the exhaust) is not a big deal for the installer. Was planning to do this myself with B&B headers, but now I am thinking otherwise. Hopefully B&B has seen this thread and is considering a price change :sneaky: .....Thanks for the input, additional comments welcome.

StealthV
06-28-05, 01:20 PM
$900 with cats for SW headers? Doubt it.

Most of us bought our B&B's for $1250 shipped. :)

B&B makes "long tubes" (with smaller 4" diameter cats) as well for the same price; ground clearance and the exhaust butcher are the two downsides.

On CadillacFAQ.com there are photos of the various brands of header installations.

All of the headers are good in their own right; for me, I wanted a simple DIY Saturday true-bolt in.

Stainless goodness...
http://www.stealthv.com/images/headers/header45.jpg

2005V
06-28-05, 01:47 PM
$900 with cats for SW headers? Doubt it.

You are correct. The headers are $899. The exhaust (which includes tips, your choice of x-pipe or resonator and Random Tech 3" barrel-type cats welded in) will set you back $1199.

Rey
06-28-05, 04:35 PM
I didn't shim motor mounts for my TPIS headers.
For those in the Minneapolis area, suggest you drop in at TPIS in Chaska. Talk with owner Myron Cottrell. He also owns a CTS-V. Check out his test facilities. Look at his headers. Ask him about the performance differences between his headers and others. Ask him what he can do to tune your car's computer.
Myron is way ahead of most tuners out there. For instance, he was using a wide-band fuel ratio meter long before Westec (the CA dyno facility that many magazines use). I have known Myron for over 40 years. His tuning my cars has always been sensible and never stupid. He is over 60 now; and has truly spent thousands of hours on his Superflow dyno determining what works and what doesn't.

thebigjimsho
06-28-05, 04:43 PM
Wow, Myron and Rick in the same state? I think I'm moving to Minnesota just to bask in the glow.

StealthV
06-28-05, 05:29 PM
The glow is from the Northern Lights. Myron likes my plugs. ;)

MN CTS-VETT
06-28-05, 07:26 PM
I will check out TPIS on Thursday and look up Myron. I talked to Erik at TPIS on the phone today. I'll let you know his insight on this issue. Thanks for the heads up. Sounds like StealthV is bringing the Northern Lites with him to MN this weekend....hopefully it's not running board lites.

lasstss
06-28-05, 07:56 PM
Anyone want to part with a set of CI manifolds??:suspense:

LV_V
07-12-05, 11:16 PM
I found the TPIS headers online for $809 + shipping, thinking of running no cats. Any opinion on this? If I go this route I am going to get the StealthV tune that will eliminate the need for my rear O2 sensor (I assume?).

CVP33
07-12-05, 11:24 PM
DO IT! :yup:

MN CTS-VETT
07-12-05, 11:28 PM
$809 is what they quote at the shop in Chaska - I am also thinking of going this route. A tune is recommended, but not required according to TPI.

LV_V
07-12-05, 11:52 PM
Is it going to be a huge increase in noise over my current x-pipe exhaust (similar to B&B)? Anyone running long tubes with no cats: do you have any in-cabin drone or resonance?

mchm3
07-13-05, 12:43 PM
ive had both :gun2: tpis(bad experience) and b&B .......go with the b&b

StealthV
07-13-05, 01:04 PM
Is it going to be a huge increase in noise over my current x-pipe exhaust (similar to B&B)? Anyone running long tubes with no cats: do you have any in-cabin drone or resonance?

Headers didn't change the exhaust noise much in cabin for me with the x-pipe. Where one does notice the headers is outside the car where it has the classic header sound of each cylinder firing.

thebigjimsho
07-13-05, 01:49 PM
ive had both :gun2: tpis(bad experience) and b&B .......go with the b&bSlow down man! You keep flaming TPIS because they needed modification to fit. Sure it sucks but it is a custom piece. Once you make the adjustment and everything's kosher. No failures. The B&B has swallowed at least 3 cats.

StealthV
07-13-05, 02:03 PM
So go with the B&B long tubes (w/o cats) and add a set of RT cats just like TPiS.

sefa01
07-13-05, 02:28 PM
Slow down man! You keep flaming TPIS because they needed modification to fit. Sure it sucks but it is a custom piece. Once you make the adjustment and everything's kosher. No failures. The B&B has swallowed at least 3 cats.

I wholeheartedly agree. I had my TPIS installed by Cartek and they didn't find it to be a big problem. And in almost a year, I've had NO problems. Obviously the same can't be said about the B&B headers. (And I have no axe to grind with B&B since I have their exhaust, which I like.)

LV_V
07-13-05, 04:11 PM
Does anyone have a sound clip or video of a drive-by with long-tube headers and no cats?

MN CTS-VETT
07-15-05, 01:35 AM
Went to visit the TPIS shop and drive Myron's CTS-V yesterday. He has a few mods making this car a notable difference from stock. TPIS has installed a lighter flywheel, short throw shifter (TPIS design), and TPIS long tube headers (and cats) with stock exhaust. First off, what a difference with the lighter flywheel! - Myron claims it is 30 lbs lighter and gives added (~8) horsepower throughout the band. The TPIS ceramic coated headers with stock exhaust gives the roar when you want it, with no difference in idle or cruising speeds. Below is a table on of measurements taken in the cabin. The stock readings are very close to the Road and Track test for the CTS-V, so I felt it was an accurate method of test.

(Idle, 1st gear max, cruising 50 mph in 5th, cruising 70 mph in 6th)
Stock Headers, Stock Exhaust: 47, 73, 66, 69 dBA
B/B Headers, B/B Exhaust, Xpipe*: 65, 86, 77, 81 dBA
TPIS Headers, Stock Exhaust: 50, 85, 66, 70 dBA

* courtesy of StealthV as he allowed me to take measurements on his recent visit to MN.

Was very impressed with the TPIS operation after touring the "horsepower farm" as it is called - truly a previous farm site with newer structures that house various machining equipment, several roadsters, specialty racing components, and test equipment. Myron admits difficulty with one one of the header tubes in regards to clearance on some CTS-V's, but they have made modifications to eliminate this past issue. Looking forward to my future mods.....
:burn: