: Loss of control on wet pavement



carguy16
06-22-05, 08:45 PM
Anyone else had this problem besides me? I have had this happen to me twice, it is very scary.

A couple days ago, I had to make a U-turn on US-19, if your in the Tampa area your familiar with it. It is a 6-8 lane highway, traffic finally let out a gap, there were still a couple cars coming, I start making the turn, my traction control is off(it wasnt raining when I started driving) when I get to the far lane I give it a little gas and holy crap the back end swings out! I grab the wheel and start turning fast to the right, then all the way back to the left, and then all the way back to the right, I was heading towards a street light but steered quickly, I was probably going 15-20 when this occurred, scary as shit. The cars behind me thank fully slowed down, I wonder what they were thinking? It feels like I was on ice, when I was really on wet pavement. I must have spun the wheel from left to right to I finally got traction 4-5 times! Everytime I thought I straightened out I had to correct again!

I didnt realize what was happening until the back end swung out, didnt even realize the tire was spinning, I was barely applying the gas.

Actually, this is the 3rd time that this has happened. The 2nd time this happened i was getting on the on ramp, pavement was wet, traction control was ON, I am in the left lane, a truck is in the right lane as we are awaiting to make a LEFT turn on the interstate. Light turns great, i take of like a turtle, Im turning on the ramp and giving it a little gas, and shit the back it swings out, Im heading towards the median, I jerk the wheel back and thank fully thats all I had to do.

Anyone have any advice? I know that you turn the wheel the opposite way the car is drifting, which is what I do. The first time I did this I was making a left turn at an intersection and I hydroplaned, the rear end spun out, scary as shit! :helpless:

When you think how easy you can be killed, lets say I was making that turn and the rear spun out and someone crasheed into the driver side of the car, or lets say on the rear event of oncoming traffic...:(

The Ape Man
06-22-05, 09:09 PM
Been driving cars with the same chassis as yours for 20 years now. I'm never happy with them unless they have a posi rear axle and a set of tires that grip. You can cross off most Michelins and Vogues. Those are too hard of a compound. They might last forever but the wet traction is not good.

carguy16
06-22-05, 09:23 PM
I have an open rear end and a set of Michelins, that are worn about 50 percent in the rear. I've been wanting to get POSI, but not with this car, I dont plan on having it much longer.


Been driving cars with the same chassis as yours for 20 years now. I'm never happy with them unless they have a posi rear axle and a set of tires that grip. You can cross off most Michelins and Vogues. Those are too hard of a compound. They might last forever but the wet traction is not good.

ocjmakaveli
06-22-05, 09:29 PM
I have an open rear end and a set of Michelins, that are worn about 50 percent in the rear. I've been wanting to get POSI, but not with this car, I dont plan on having it much longer.

the problem is not the car but the lack of tire traction and many other thing sthat improve traction

You need all weather high performance tires

Fleet
06-23-05, 01:48 AM
Well, when any of my Cadillacs spin out on a road, it's on purpose!

I think you should find some empty parking lot and spin out your car on purpose a few times so you know how it behaves in such a condition.

davesdeville
06-23-05, 05:06 AM
Yeah unless you get some BS ticket like I did.

Anyway get a FWD car :p

ShadowLvr400
06-23-05, 10:58 AM
Posi and decent rubber. For the 94-96 Fleetwood, I've been rather happy with Pirelli Scorpion Zero's, 255/65/15. They're sport truck tires, but ride pretty well, and grip very well.

N0DIH
06-23-05, 01:49 PM
Check your front sway bar end links, the cars will do this if the front bar links are comprimised in any way shape or form.

FWD still sucks!

I will look at those tires when I need to get some for mine, 255/65/15's sounds like a perfect size!

BluEyes
06-24-05, 02:18 PM
When it starts to slide, in addition to steering to correct, you also need to ease your foot out of the gas. It doesn't take much to spin the tires on wet pavement with a powerful engine like Caddies usually have. Even though it might not feel like you're giving it that much gas, you're obviously giving it too much. Ease back some and you'll regain controll, and accelerate faster.

N0DIH
06-24-05, 07:42 PM
The traction control on my 94 does a pretty good job. Many times it has kicked in and kept me from sliding on a wheelhop or a little too much gas in the wet or slick conditions. I have been happy with it so far.

The only time in RWD I have ever had significantly worse time than FWD is with poor back tires. People think if you have 2 bad and 2 good tires to put them on the back, no!! Put them on the front! You will slow down when you feel yourself getting squirelly. But on the back, the back end can pass you before you have sufficient time to react safely. I know, I bent the rear axle on my T/A that way.

codewize
06-24-05, 11:25 PM
I would guess that it's mostly related to the tires. However if you had the Traction Control turned off then I have to say that's why they make such devices.

Also road conditions may have played a part too. Someone dripped some oil there or something in the last couple days. Who knows but I know my 93' is very stable on wet and dry pavement. Even in the snow I can't complain at all. I run Yokohama Avid Touring tires. Quiet smooth cheap and excellent in most weather conditions. You may have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

carguy16
06-25-05, 12:16 AM
When I realized i loss control my foot was already of the gas pedal, i was spinning the wheel full left then full right in panic 4-5 times till i gained traction. Like i said, traction was off, pavement was wet, i had the radio on, so i didnt hear the tire spinning, totally unexpected, but I will be ready next time hope fully.

Yes, t/c does a good job when its on, seems mine will lock into a high gear when it engages to avoid spin?


When it starts to slide, in addition to steering to correct, you also need to ease your foot out of the gas. It doesn't take much to spin the tires on wet pavement with a powerful engine like Caddies usually have. Even though it might not feel like you're giving it that much gas, you're obviously giving it too much. Ease back some and you'll regain controll, and accelerate faster.

BluEyes
06-26-05, 02:31 AM
You've gotta be careful to take your foot off very slowly. Once you get the tail on such a big car wagging, it's got alot of momentum. As you noticed, you can get it to stop sliding one way, but then it breaks loose the other way. Lifting too suddenly will cause this.
What you are aiming for is to feather your foot off the gas while you are counter-steering, and basically use the reduction in throttle to bring the tail back in. The counter-steering just keeps the frontend going the way you want it to, while your right foot effectively steers the tail, but very gently.
It sounds like you need to find a nice big empty gravel lot, or a very lightly traveled gravel road, and get more used to RWD. Start slowly - very slowly, and get used to hanging the tail out a bit. Don't go wild - these are big cars and do have alot of momentum. You're not trying to remake 'Smokey and the Bandit', just learn some car controll here. Do this at your own risk though - most of those smokeys don't look too kindly on this ;)

You also mentioned that it had recently started raining. This is the WORST time for traction. The rain begins to lift the oil drips and stains off the road, so it's wet AND oily! After it's been raining for awhile, the oil tends to get washed away (runoff, yuck) and traction actually improves some.

N0DIH
06-26-05, 05:45 PM
I agree, I tried to start to teach my wife the art of hanging on to a car sliding, 1980 Trans AM 455 Pontiac ("YH" code 455, 10:1 compression, "15" heads, 360 hp, 500 lb ft torque, 428 HO carb (stock on this, is was from a Hearse!), THM350 with a shift kit, 3.08's) and the first time I got her to get it sideways she paniced and floored it, we ended up in a field. It wasn't fun, she wasn't amused and hasn't tried it since. She has a 4WD Suburban now....